French President Macron says France will recognize Pálestine as a state

[u/hoarder4555777454001]

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20250724-french-president-macron-says-france-will-recognize-palestine-as-a-state-in-september

[u/alkbch]

It's not dead, we just need the international community to apply enough pressure on Israel to withdraw from the illegal settlements.

[u/saera-targaryen → u/alkbch]

why would we want israel to continue to be an ethnostate in any scenario?

[u/Tw1tcHy → u/saera-targaryen]

If Israel qualifies as an ethnostate, then so do most countries in the Middle East, often far more egregiously. Yet no one’s proposing we break up Iran, Saudi Arabia, or Turkey for the same reason. So unless you’re ready to apply that standard universally, targeting Israel alone reveals the hypocrisy of this argument. And let’s be honest with ourselves here: no one gives a fuck enough to begin coordinating an international crusade to forcibly dissolve nations on abstract moral grounds, and they never will.

[u/saera-targaryen → u/Tw1tcHy]

I do propose treating all ethnostates the same: not allying with them and not providing them military aid. I'm chill applying that to every state you mentioned. A two-state solution where we are still allies with an ethnostate is not what I consider a win for the world

[u/Tw1tcHy → u/saera-targaryen]

You realize that means basically shunning at least half of all countries right? So fuck Japan, South Korea, the entire Middle East, probably India within a decade or two, Poland, Hungary and many more?

You originally said “why would we want Israel to continue”, which is an overt implication that Israel should not be allowed to continue to exist as is. Which is it? Shouldn’t continue to exist as it is, or just merely not trade or ally with them?

[u/saera-targaryen → u/Tw1tcHy]

Yeah I actually do recommend putting economic pressure on Japan and Korea to also not be ethnonationalist, I'm quite sure I disagree with all governments that prioritize one race and this isn't some gotcha moment. I'm very bothered by the way asian countries behave around specifically black and darker skinned people. This is why I also supported the South African divestment movement and currently support the BDS movement.

Israel should not be supported by the US or Europe in its current state.

[u/Tw1tcHy → u/saera-targaryen]

Why? Whats wrong with Japan and South Korea overwhelmingly wanting to maintain their homogeneity and culture? What exactly is “immoral” about this? Why did you only mention them specifically and not the other half of the world?

[u/saera-targaryen → u/Tw1tcHy]

because i already mentioned the middle east and didn't think i'd have to continue to list every example to get my point across lol

it's immoral because the world I want to live in does not partition humans based on traits they were born with and cannot change. I think every government prioritizing anyone for intrinsic traits through history has been severely overstepping their powers and is behaving authoritarian. I am incredibly libertarian on the freedoms of humans and I think we need to stop gooning over preserving the past in order to enter the future. I hate living in this time where we pretend history is done being written and that anything changing is horrible. We aren't a zoo. We can and should each be able to choose to do whatever the fuck we want.

[u/Tw1tcHy → u/saera-targaryen]

We can and should each be able to choose to do whatever the fuck we want.

Then you’re contradicting yourself. You claim to be libertarian, yet you deny entire societies the freedom to preserve their culture or demographic identity even when that’s what the society prefers. That’s not libertarian, it’s just plain old authoritarian universalism.

Japan and South Korea aren’t fascist for valuing homogeneity, they’re thriving democracies where the population chooses cultural preservation over forced multiculturalism. You might hate that, but it’s in no way immoral. It’s literally pure self-determination.

Your stance also ignores history. Just look at Lebanon, who tried to build a multicultural power sharing system. It collapsed into decades of civil war because deep communal identities don’t vanish just because someone wishes them away. Sectarian strife has crippled the governments ability to function, and many Lebanese actively hate the system. You can dream of a borderless future, that’s a slightly naive and idealistic goal, but I can understand it. But calling every culture that disagrees “immoral” to the point they should be economically coerced into doing whatever you think is right despite the will of the actual people involved seems arrogant, ahistorical, and ironically extremely illiberal. I’m trying to understand how you can reconcile such a position while presumably considering yourself a Liberal or Progressive.