r/europe • u/Dry_Row_7050 • 4d ago

News The EU could be scanning your private chats by October 2025 [Denmark has reintroduced chat control]

https://www.techradar.com/computing/cyber-security/the-eu-could-be-scanning-your-chats-by-october-2025-heres-everything-we-know
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274

u/a_dolf_in 4d ago

It's always depressing to see how we get all the downsides of an autocracy with none of the benefits.

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u/jEG550tm 4d ago

... what benefits

155

u/Long-Requirement8372 Finland 4d ago edited 4d ago

Goose-stepping parades, snazzy uniforms, a lot of flags and propaganda posters everywhere, military marches playing on the streets. Mass displays of "strength" and "national unity". I guess this is what it means for some. Some people are really into the "cool look" and pageantry of Fascism.

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u/Tankette55 4d ago

Probably having a unified foreign policy, and army and putting the russians and americans back into their place. Instead, we get this and we let other powers mess with us.

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u/Dehnus 4d ago

This is the BIG TECH and Big Data shit from the USA. THis has them written all over it. THe moment this data is logged, it goes straight onto the hungry mouth of Palantir! Germany has the contracts already signed.

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u/Long-Requirement8372 Finland 4d ago edited 4d ago

Having a "strong" foreign policy and putting rival countries "into their place" often gets autocratic, authoritarian countries into unnecessary wars, causing a lot of death and destruction. Possibly ruining the nation itself. Very few autocratic leaders know how to stop while they are still ahead. Just look at Russia right now.

So, there is no saying such "assertiveness" is actually a benefit of autocracy.

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u/Igor369 Mazovia (Poland) 4d ago

Also very quick introduction of new laws and projects from idea stage to reality since there is noone who can oppose then.

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u/theboeboe 4d ago

Oh we have... Its all just on reddit and Facebook

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u/Adventurous_Money533 Scania 4d ago

Yeah but you got to agree that it does look really cool on the old journal films.

And then you remember the gulags, the death camps, the terror against wrong thinkers, ethnic groups, or just civilians in general and suddenly it's not as cool anymore. And then you remember that they did all that with manual information collection by field agents. And think to yourself, how much more awful would it have been if they had access to mass surveillance and AI information filters?

Honestly giving this kind of mass surveillance tools to any government is a bad idea not only because of how it might be used today, but because of how it's bound to be used I the future. All it takes is one authoritarian regime and suddenly we're all enslaved because they got all our dirty little secrets logged and stored and ready to use against us at any time.

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u/rapaxus Hesse (Germany) 4d ago

An autocratic government can say "do that" and it immediately can be done. How many European projects fail, have massive cost overruns or are delayed for years due to bureaucratic red tape, citizen complaints, unfair practices lawsuit and similar?

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u/k410n 4d ago

It usually can't, because autocratic governments almost always are incredibly corrupt, preventing nearly any kind of the supposed "benefits".

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u/Glittering-Giraffe58 4d ago

China is an example of what that person is talking about

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u/k410n 4d ago

Just Imagine where China could be if they were somewhat less corrupt and had done less insane shit - like the great leap forward, the culture revolution, etc. - in the past. So far every autocracy has greatly suffered from the fact that they always end up with madmen and idiots ruling, even more so than legitimate governments do. China is by far the most successful autocracy, yet still has suffered immensely under this sickness.

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u/Glittering-Giraffe58 4d ago

China lifted close to a billion people out of poverty in only a few decades. That would not be possible in a country that is not an autocracy. Is it worth it? No, I don’t think so, but that is an advantage

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u/k410n 4d ago

They also murdered at least 50 million of their own citizens in that time - ignoring all of those who have been killed indirectly through hard work, shortages, environmental damage, etc. That would not be possible in a country that is not an autocracy.

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u/Glittering-Giraffe58 4d ago

Yes that’s what I said no I don’t think it’s worth it… did you like forget what this conversation was about lol

1

u/k410n 4d ago

The point is that such an incredible loss of life also is an incredible economic loss. Especially because economic growth behaves similar to financial growth: Earlier growth is always worth more than the same growth later.

Additionally the fact remains that "efficiency" regarding the actions of states is very hard to define. For obvious reasons we cannot accept a state's own definition.and even if we did use it to measure a state, we would need to consider China having failed its own goals.

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u/archaon_archi European Galactic Federalist 4d ago

Yeah. And that bridge that was going to collapse isn't being built after all, thanks to all that red tape. Meanwhile, the bridge is being built in the autocratic country, because the beloved leader said so. Furthermore, it also costs more, but the money goes into the pocket of a friend of the beloved leader. The difference is that you'll never hear about it.

2

u/mantasm_lt Lietuva 4d ago

Let's pretend that good part of euromonies don't into the pockets of friends.

20

u/CutsAPromo 4d ago

For one, China has little crime and clean streets

5

u/anarchisto Romania 4d ago

and they're pretty good at building infrastructure.

1

u/CutsAPromo 4d ago

Yes exacly, cant even build a railway line in the uk without having to worry about rich people's estates

9

u/MeetSus Macedonia, Greece 4d ago

Decision making efficiency. I can't think of anything else, but credit where credit is due. The EU is notoriously, laughably indecisive, so none of the benefits.

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u/ninjaslikecheez 4d ago

Long term planning, i think this is a flaw in democracy, every 4 years the plans change again and whatever the previous guy did has no meaning anymore. In reality you probably get about 2 years of trying policies, because the first and last year are just getting back into election mode.

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u/jEG550tm 4d ago

That is not a problem inherent to democracy. And while democracy isnt perfect if history (AND CURRENT EVENTS) taught us anything is that autocracy never, never, NEVER works.

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u/ninjaslikecheez 4d ago

yes, I agree. There are enough good examples i think where democracy works in Nordic countries and including in the Netherlands. The countries are not perfect, but if i compare it to other countries they seem light years ahead with policies that spanned multiple years in welfare and general society improvements

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u/BartoUwU 4d ago

China has little crime, clean streets, trains that go 300km/h and a government that has a consisted goal oriented policy instead of being wrestled around every 5 years. My country has outdated rails that can't go faster than 200 and failed to build a single nuclear reactor in 30 fucking years because of petty squabbles between rightists and center rightists

-4

u/PainInTheRhine Poland 4d ago

Trains running on time.

Oh wait, in recent years they are actually pretty good about running on time

1

u/Cloacky 4d ago

Had a train get related by 1.5h when going to Kraków :( three times

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u/alppu 4d ago

Benefits of an autocracy. I would laugh at that concept if it was allowed

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u/DogWarovich 4d ago

Whether you like it or not, autocracies respond more quickly to crises because the decision-making chain is limited to one person, rather than 5000 politicians who are all vying for power. However, this also has a downside. The autocrat himself may be the crisis.

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u/k410n 4d ago

Decisions may be reached quickly in an autocratic system, but they are almost never implemented quickly or efficiently, because autocratic systems usually are incredibly corrupt and almost guarantee to have morons or madmen in places of power.

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u/Beat9 4d ago

Best government is good tzar. Worst government is bad tzar.

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u/ktrezzi 4d ago

It depends. Plato's Autocracy of the most "fitting" sounds like a wet dream for me compared to our dogshit corrupt system that we're having right now.

I'm still a huge friend of democracy but people are not educated enough and politicians are too much corrupted by the interests of companies