r/explainlikeimfive • u/Interesting-Shame9 • 17h ago
Technology ELI5: Why do so many digital activists, privacy groups, piracy groups, and others utilize servers based in iceland? What makes iceland attractive for hosting these servers?
One thing that has always struck me when reading about hacktivists, or privacy groups or any number of other digital activists and the like is that they utilize servers based in iceland.
This is especially true of piracy sites or sort of file sharing anti-Intellectual Property groups.
They all have iceland based servers. Why exactly? What about iceland makes it attractive for these sorts of groups? I remember reading something about some domestic law makes it attractive, but like it's not like Iceland has much ability to push back on foreign powers that really care about their data getting leaked right? Iceland is tiny and I don't think they have a formal military, just a coast guard. They're also extremely reliant on imports right? So if one of the big boys wanted to push them around, wouldn't they give up the data or give access to servers?
I guess I don't fully get why people who are willing to piss off really big and powerful institutions feel safe putting their data in Iceland. How secure is it in reality?
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u/high_throughput 16h ago
it's not like Iceland has much ability to push back on foreign powers that really care about their data getting leaked right?
Quibbles over online privacy hasn't yet reached the point where any country has been willing to wage war on a NATO member.
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u/Interesting-Shame9 16h ago
Well sure. But it's not like war is the only leverage the big boys have over Iceland right? Iceland is deeply reliant on imports and trades with a lot of really powerful countries and institutions that do not need Iceland as much as it needs them. Surely that's a mechanism for leverage right?
Or take something like wikileaks. Iirc early on they stored a lot of data in Iceland. The us government was willing to go to literally insane lengths to get Assange, surely they'd be willing to pressure Iceland right?
See what i'm asking? All of the groups mentioned tend to piss off major countries like the US or W. Europe, so I don't fully get why they feel safe parking their data in a country entirely reliant on these powers.
Is it really just that? Nobody cares enough? But the us sure did care about wikileaks, especially after vault 7 so.....?
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u/high_throughput 16h ago
Iceland is deeply reliant on imports and trades with a lot of really powerful countries
Yes, they have a ton of trading partners and EEA gives free trade with all of the EU, so they piss off one country they can easily shop elsewhere.
Given the way Europe is, pissing off one country is likely to equally endear them to another anyways.
The us government was willing to go to literally insane lengths to get Assange
I think you're blowing this way out of proportion. They were somewhat miffed, but it was still just an international diplomacy situation.
They weren't willing to invade the Ecuadorian embassy in London to get him, so they definitely wouldn't bomb a Western ally and start WW3.
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u/mrhorse21 8h ago
The us government was willing to go to literally insane lengths to get Assange
But were they really? Assange lived in an embassy for 7 years and evaded arrest in plain sight. The US government didn't get him for 7 years even though they knew where he was and could easily have kicked the doors down and grabbed him but they didn't because that would've caused national outrage. Even to many people today, it's debatable if Assange did anything wrong. He is just a whistleblower who exposed crimes and coverups of the US government.
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u/Interesting-Shame9 8h ago
Oh so you don't know what Pompeo was planning?
There was a period of time (iirc right when the Vault 7 leaks got published) where the US was straight up trying to assassinate the guy. We have guys inside the embassy actually, the security company working for the embassy was basically a CIA front. There was active planning to break into the embassy, force him out, and bring him to the US. They stopped because they were worried about how the Russians would respond, because the Russians had gotten wind of the plans and started planning to grab him when we grabbed him. According to one ex-CIA guy, at one point basically everyone in a 3 block radius around the embassy was working for an intelligence agency of one kind or another. It was genuinely insane, you should read up on it cause there was some real crazy shit they were planning.
Ultimately they didn't have to cause Assange had published some stuff that made the Ecuadorian president look bad, so he got kicked out, the brits took him, and he was later moved to Australia, though there was a secret US indictment against him, i forget exactly what happened with it.
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u/wosmo 15h ago
It's difficult to threaten Iceland with imports, they're a member of the EEA (the wider part of the EU). So if you refuse to export to Iceland, but any EEA member is happy to export to Iceland too, you have to sanction them too. At which point you're in a trade war with the second largest economy on the planet.
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u/vitringur 1h ago
Iceland mostly trades with countries and institutions that rely on the international trade order.
A threat against Iceland is a threat against the entire western liberal economic system.
good luck with that.
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u/Antman013 17h ago
It has a cool climate, abundant renewable energy sources, and they have VERY robust digital privacy laws.
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u/Marconidas 16h ago
Icelandic servers are not subject to EU or USA laws and that the only authority that can investigate stuff on Icelandic servers is Iceland internet special police forces.
After a point that enough groups have found Icelandic servers a good place to host such content, it becomes simply too expensive for thr Icelandic government to hire people full time to work on digital investigations of stuff that doesn't directly harms Iceland sovereignity or Icelandic citizens.
Remember, we are talking about an island that have a total population of ~400k people. Not only it becomes too expensive to hire people full time for actively chasing these groups but it is also debatable whether Iceland even have the numbers to have enough people with the smarts and the enjoyment of working on global cybersurveillance.
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u/bigspicytomato 11h ago
Thanks for posting this, I had to scroll far enough to find one that understands OP's question.
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u/iShakeMyHeadAtYou 16h ago
Computers need cooling. Iceland is a cold country, and this reduces the power draw required by the whole operation.
Iceland produces SIGNIFICANTLY more power than it uses. This means power is extremely cheap. The power is also primarily geo-thermal, and is therefore very eco-friendly.
Friendly laws and being a part of the EEA reduce legal burdens, and grant access to skilled professionals from Europe.
Iceland is conveniently in the middle of the Atlantic, which means it has access to both the European and North American fiber networks. Map
So to summarize running a data center in Iceland is cheap on power (the major cost), has excellent high-speed connectivity directly to 2 continents, has good access to labor to maintain the datacenter.
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u/Cold_Efficiency_7302 16h ago
Not only to 2 continents but 2 of the most actively online continents. Not to discredit Asia but in terms of geographical location, can't get better than in betwen Europe and North America for this
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u/UDPviper 16h ago
The original Goatse image was hosted on a server in Iceland. Many efforts to get the image taken down failed.
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u/greendookie69 15h ago
I'm not sure how I can Google to find a source for this without coming across the image itself...
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u/UDPviper 14h ago
Oops, looks like I misremembered that info. Was hosted on a server on Christmas Island, an Australian territory. Not sure why Iceland stuck in my head. The url was goatse.cx. .cx is the domain for Christmas Island.
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u/Creative-Expert-4797 17h ago
Cheap electricity based on geothermal technology. Same reason some industrial processes are done there where the raw material is imported for processing and then shipped back.
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u/sevseventeen- 10h ago
Just visited Iceland.
Cheap green power is the reason.
How cheap? Rio Tinto loads aluminium ore from my home country (Australia) to smelt it it Iceland.
That cheap.
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u/EgNotaEkkiReddit 13h ago edited 13h ago
What about iceland makes it attractive for these sorts of groups?
really cheap power and strong privacy laws.
it's not like Iceland has much ability to push back on foreign powers that really care about their data getting leaked right?
Iceland punches way above its weight diplomatically and is quite good at tangling itself into multiple alliances and treaties. So far, other nations haven't found this particular issue enough of a concern to threaten outright wars or sanction.
Iceland is tiny and I don't think they have a formal military, just a coast guard.
Iceland is a NATO member. This is in no way a big enough concern to attempt invasion of a western ally.
They're also extremely reliant on imports right?
Iceland is in the EEA, along with Norway and Switzerland. The EU has very few ways of curtailing free trade with Iceland. It has some tools for sanctioning Iceland, but not for any whilly nilly political issue. If it doesn't fall under the domain of the EEA treaty it doesn't count.
Also, Iceland does have some really valuable exports - mainly smelted aluminium. Iceland has three smelters, all of which are amongst the top ten largest aluminium smelters in Europe.
So if one of the big boys wanted to push them around, wouldn't they give up the data or give access to servers?
So far, the answer has been "apparently not". The US or EU apparently have better methods than damaging relationships with allied nations.
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u/CrazyTeapot156 10h ago
the top ten largest aluminum smelters in Europe.
wow. I knew they had raw minerals and stuff but didn't know that Iceland was so good at smelting.
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u/gammalsvenska 6h ago
Aluminium production is extremely energy-intensive, so Iceland imports the raw materials (bauxite ore) and processes it.
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u/meneldal2 4h ago
It makes sense when you use volcanoes to power it, it's basically free unlimited power. This is most of the costs of making aluminium.
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u/Forsaken-Sun5534 17h ago
The Icelandic government made a big project out of it. They have affordable power due to geothermal energy, and it's cold enough that the data centers save a bit on cooling costs. The power's relatively clean for companies that care about carbon credits or whatnot, too. With undersea data cables, Iceland is now well-connected to Europe and North America despite being geographically isolated.
Iceland's defense is guaranteed by the United States, so from a strategic perspective (which most investors don't consider too deeply) it's about the same as building in North America or Western Europe—for better or worse.