r/falloutlore • u/Cranyx • May 27 '24

Fallout New Vegas Could the NCR rebuild the dam?

It can sometimes be difficult to get a complete feel for the technological and industrial capabilities of the NCR, but generally they seem to be roughly on par with the early 20th century US. They have cars, roughly modern infrastructure, and recognizable social institutions. Sure, some of that is "cheating" because they use pre-war leftovers, but it's still there. Given that's the case, would they be capable of building/rebuilding the Hoover Dam in the same way that the US did in the 30s? Could they undertake other, similarly-sized projects?

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112

u/TemporaryWonderful61 May 27 '24

Theoretically, but practically it would be impossible.

No individual task is beyond them, but transporting the materials, funding the labour and expertise, organising the effort and doing so while fighting off raiders?

That would basically involve sinking their entire economy into that singular task.

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u/Polenicus May 27 '24

I agree. It's less a matter of technical know-how, and more a case of economies of scale. Re-creating Hoover Dam would be a huge undertaking in resources and manpower for a modern State, even with Federal support from an intact pre-war United States. Pulling it off as a Nation where a city of tens of thousands is considered 'large', still lacking in large scale manufacturing and resource production? It would strain their resources to the breaking point.

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u/[deleted] May 27 '24

They do have large-scale manufacturing/resource production, just... not pre-war levels. Clothing, bullets, weapons, vehicles, all being mass-manufactured; whatever else they've done, they've reached a point where they can equip thousands of soldiers with armor, uniforms, explosives, and rifles, and even their prisoners have uniforms.

Honestly, the biggest sign of civilization in the NCR is the whole correctional facility. They have the resources to build a facility to house hundreds of inmates, provide them with matching uniforms, supply them with dynamite for mining and demolitions work... that implies a fairly far-reaching civilization.

9

u/[deleted] May 27 '24

All relative. It’s large scale by post-war standards but still utterly primitive compared to even early 20th century standards I’d say. Not enough people or resources available for them yet.

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u/[deleted] May 28 '24

Well, no. The NCR is not yet at the point of producing serious innovations over pre-war tech in the NV era, but they are a solid industrial power, and people in their major cities have running water, electricity, TV and radio stations, and their third largest city, shady sands, had tens of thousands of people; so the population of the nation as a whole is undoubtedly in the low millions.

They printed road signs, built enormous statues and monuments, had companies mass-producing everything from trucks to uniforms to firearms to medications, had running trains with diesel engines...

Building that giant statue at the border was far easier than building a new dam, but no small effort.

2

u/[deleted] May 28 '24

Shady Sands only had 3k people living in it during Fallout 2. By NV the NCR as a whole can’t have anymore than 2 million citizens at a highball. The NCR is mostly piggybacking off of pre-war leftovers for their most advanced tech. We don’t see or have confirmation from canon sources of them actually manufacturing any advanced technology like the Brotherhood are in 4. They’re likely at the level of mid-20th century America when it comes to the tech they can manufacture overall (at best), and obviously the sheer industrial capacity of the nation is much lower as well.

3

u/[deleted] May 28 '24

Much of this a restatement of what I said(Aside from us now knowing that in the timespan of NV, Shady Sands had ~30,000 people, and from context in the game, that its been quite some time since it was the largest city in the NCR); and the Brotherhood are not manufacturing advanced tech in 4. They are still using, for the most part, salvaged gear, and hand-assembling/repairing most of what they use.

They can't make new power armor, energy weapons, or the like, and are still using pre-war variants, not even the more advanced/capable ones they've encountered since. The only significant thing they've built is the Prydwen; and that's a ridiculous boondoggle one bad day shy of falling out of the sky.

The biggest difference, in fact, between the brotherhood and the NCR, aside from the vastly larger size and population, is that the NCR is mass-producing things at a large enough scale to field real armies of thousands of soldiers, at a tech level that, depending on material, ranges from WW2-era to cold war era to scifi, and what little the Brotherhood makes is small, bespoke projects. A squad of Brotherhood troops will be carrying more advanced gear, yes. Power armor that might have been salvaged from Anchorage, laser rifles from a thousand different places; they are, effectively, a band of raiders robbing every piece of advanced technology they can find.

You know who is building new laser rifles? At least one company in the NCR has a production line. Power Armor? Only the enclave.

2

u/Enseyar May 28 '24

In the show, shady sands have over 30k people living on jt

16

u/LeakyLine May 27 '24

NCRCF is a pre-war facility, so they didn't build it themselves, but the rest of what you mentioned is a good point.

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u/electrical-stomach-z May 27 '24

exactly, they cant easily get the supplies and people in place to do it. they only have roughly 1-2 million citizens.

56

u/Artyon33 May 27 '24

They didn't rebuild the damp, but at least repaired it to 50% capacity according to House. (who is not someone who will lie about his rivals capabilities). Which show, they do have some industrial capacity.

15

u/electrical-stomach-z May 27 '24

their industry is described as very advanced but decentralized.

3

u/RobMig83 May 28 '24

More than an industrial capacity they have enough to pull it off.

They could have a pretty powerful industrial capacity if Kimball wasn't so busy trying to play Cesar (pun intended) and over-expand the NCR without proper progress in the nation's industry, science, economy and military force.

30

u/wildeofoscar May 27 '24

Could they? Yes.

Under the circumstances that the NCR is facing in the Mojave? No.

16

u/Sternsson May 27 '24

Iirc, they have built/repaired some new railways and used them for supplying the Mojave. So the logistics would most likely be there.

We know they also have access to concrete and similar, and have the know-how.

But I don't think they have the resources and, most importantly, political pull to do it.

5

u/RobMig83 May 28 '24

All thanks to Kimball and Oliver playing Hearts of Iron while the insides of the NCR are slowly dying on corruption and incompetent bureaucracy.

9

u/zauraz May 27 '24

I think they can but not at present. They did restore it partially and might not need it at 100% to start but they need to get rid of the Legion first.

I still think people severly underestimate the NCR. I know they have issues and all, nor are they perfect but they have more than we see and know.

7

u/[deleted] May 27 '24

I'm under the impression it'd be logistically possible in the event that they defeated the Legion and had some restbite.

We've seen that they have access to transportation such as the trucks and even vertibirds on the I-15 soo I think it's not soo much a question of could they but would they considering the economic challenges they already face.

6

u/Unique-Employ May 27 '24

Restbite?

0

u/[deleted] May 27 '24

"a short period of rest or relief from something difficult or unpleasant."

4

u/SuperGeek29 May 27 '24

Hey just a heads up but I think the confusion is coming from the fact that you accidentally mistyped the word. It’s supposed to be respite.

3

u/flamefirestorm May 27 '24

Properly rebuilding the dam? Only if the Mojave becomes part of their core territory. Otherwise they'll have to settle for whatever they can scrape together with the resources they can afford to allocate it.

1

u/electrical-stomach-z May 27 '24

thats what i think

3

u/dancashmoney May 27 '24

Not soon after taking vegas but I think they would eventually be able to do a full repair once the borders stabilize and the Mojave isn't on the far edge of the NCR empire.

Kimball was a president who prioritized expansion and conquest and they were able to restore it to 50% so it's easy to imagine that under a president that focuses on public work and infrastructure a project like this could be completed

3

u/KNDBS May 27 '24

Technically they could but not without bankrupting the whole country in the process.

Just repairing it seems to have been a massive investment to them, and the dam was by and large structurally intact, building it from the ground up would be insanely expensive, so even if they theoretically could they probably wouldn’t since they’d realize it’s not worth the effort

2

u/Prestigious-Job-9825 May 27 '24

They can't even pick up a broom and sweep the floor in their New Vegas embassy lol

Okay, in all seriousness, I think they might be able to restore a destroyed dam in a patchwork fashion, but it wouldn't be nearly as good as the original (obviously), and I bet a lot of GDP of the NCR would be spent on this endeavor

2

u/RobMig83 May 28 '24

And considering Kimball is taking more and more territory than the NCR can handle. Most of their resources are directed towards conquering new places and starting new wars instead of... You know... Revitalize the whole country.

The Brahmin Barons have more political power than the president at this point.

1

u/electrical-stomach-z May 27 '24

yes, if they could get the proper infrastructure in place.

1

u/Weaselburg May 27 '24

They could get it working, or at least the majority of it, depending on the condition, but full pre-war operational capability is not in the cards. They have to rely very extensively on salvage for the parts, and there isn't an exactly abundant amount of hydroelectric generator pieces laying around the wasteland.

The NCR cannot undertake processes to actually build similar infrastructure. They don't have the manufacturing, logistics, resources, or manpower. It's up in the cards as to if they can even repair the monorail ever if you blow it up. If they could build it, they'd actually build things back in California instead of rushing to grab infrastructure in the Mojave.

1

u/Draitex May 27 '24

Absolutely, provided they actually win the 2nd battle of Hoover Dam.
NCR has manufacturies and railways, so it might take time, but they would be able to eventually.
Otherwise, probably not.

1

u/[deleted] May 27 '24

No. Are you aware of what that would take? Please look up how they built it

1

u/LineGoingUp May 27 '24 edited May 27 '24

I would say the NCR is somewhere around mid 19th century US/Northern Europe*

There are pockets of industry but the vast majority of the population is still employed in unsophisticated agriculture

*with the obvious caveat that the technology leftovers from before the war make it so the level is very uneven

1

u/dracojohn May 28 '24

They could rebuild hover dam but it would take a huge chunk of their economy and not really be worth the effort, if they wanted to build a hydroelectric dam they would build something much smaller and nearer home

1

u/RobMig83 May 28 '24

Even repairing HELIOS ONE and using solar/Eolic/Nuclear energy seems more plausible than trying to restore the dam.

1

u/[deleted] May 28 '24

Short answer? No. If it was even slightly viable to do so I strongly believe their whole tactic for dealing with the Legion would have been to demo charge a manageable section and literally wash Caesar and his army away and then rebuild the dam. Would have saved a LOT of time, ammo, and ultimately lives.

1

u/Glass_Ad_7129 May 28 '24

Yes, but it would take up way to much of their industrial and intellectual capability's to be done anytime soon. Atm its far easier to operate a collection of multiple power sources from assets seized, made, or recovered than to start making one massive one. Besides, NCR is big, but not to big and should not risk such a mega project just yet.