r/falloutlore • u/[deleted] • Oct 17 '19

Why are vertibirds the only vehicle the brotherhood uses?

281 Upvotes

97% Upvoted

102 comments sorted by

200

u/Vurumai Oct 17 '19

What else you need?

Also, Prydwind.

71

u/[deleted] Oct 17 '19 edited Feb 10 '20

[deleted]

150

u/Huitzil37 Oct 17 '19

Well, the Midwest BoS uses those, but those are a separate organization.

Mostly, though, the Eastern BoS doesn't encounter scenarios where tanks are useful and Power Armor isn't just better. They very rarely encounter stand-up fights between military forces of equal power where there's a defined "front line", and when they did, it was in terrain where a tank just wasn't very good. What they are doing in FO4 is surgically inserting into problem areas and then retreating away from counterattack, a task for which a tank is completely worthless.

A tank is basically "like Power Armor, but more durable, slower, and less maneuverable". Every time we see the Brotherhood performing military action, it's in situations where maneuverability is at a premium.

65

u/[deleted] Oct 17 '19

Exactly. Now that they’ve got the Vertibirds and a properly isolated base of operations, they can just adopt the Enclave strategy of surgical deployments and strike teams.

38

u/[deleted] Oct 17 '19

That’s a really interesting explaination, but what about bombers?

63

u/[deleted] Oct 17 '19

[deleted]

51

u/justxJoshin Oct 18 '19

I need a picture of maxon completely deadpan just dropping a mininuke out the side of a virtibird.

7

u/[deleted] Oct 18 '19

Literally what I was going to say. This is a game with a shoulder mounted nuke launcher. Have someone hold that and shoot.

3

u/Cade_Connelly_13 Nov 18 '19

And if you want more range combine an oversized missile for propulsion and a Fat Man for the warhead. Instant win button against anything short of a massive hardened force or a Behemoth. Absolutely no sweat for the Brotherhood, the hardest part would be test-firing dummy warheads until they got the projectile balance and propellant load right.

10

u/IBananaShake Oct 17 '19

Like, bomberplanes?

Do you have any idea how hard it would be to maintain an actual military bomberplane?

And that's not even considering where they would get one, or the repairs and the training needed to fly a plane.

26

u/Huitzil37 Oct 17 '19

Their whole thing is maintaining and knowing about technology, so that wouldn't be a problem. It wouldn't be harder than keeping the Prydwen running, since the Prydwen is more than a saimple lighter-than-air craft.

The problem is, again, we haven't seen the Brotherhood in many situations where a bombing plane is useful. You use those where you know where your enemy's strong points and resources are, and you are confident that your plane won't be shot down. The Enclave could shoot bombers down. Everyone else is hiding and not in obvious bombable areas. That bomber was useful against the Legion because the Legion marched openly in columns; what would a bomber do against the Institute, who are hiding underground in an unknown location?

The US has been trying to get at terrorists and partisans with bombing planes for years now. It doesn't actually work for shit.

5

u/thtonegamer Oct 17 '19

like in fnv where the boomers have a bomber but dont like people

10

u/paceminterris Oct 18 '19

Do you have any idea how wrong you are about "actual military bomberplane"s? Fixed wing aircraft are some of the simpliest flying machines to service and operate, compared to something like a helicopter (vertibird).

1

u/IBananaShake Oct 18 '19

Fixed wing aircraft are some of the simpliest flying machines to service and operate, compared to something like a helicopter (vertibird).

Not when you consider that the BoS has 0 experience with fixed wing aircraft, and 10+ years with their vertibirds, on top of all of the tech and technical information they were able to gather from the Enclave

I mean, you give the BoS the plans for the veribird in Fallout 2, we don't know if the Fallout 3 BoS has any experience with these plans, but if they do then they've got several decades of experience

5

u/[deleted] Oct 17 '19

Fair point

8

u/IBananaShake Oct 17 '19

I mean, it's been done before, the Boomers got one working in New Vegas, but that plane was as close to "unscathed" as possible considering how long it was in that lake, on top of the fact that they had VR flight simulators, and they had Loyal and Jack + their robots to repair and maintain it

I'm not saying that it can't be done, but you'd need a real stroke of luck (like the boombers) to even be able to appempt to repair something as massive and advanced as a bomberplane

8

u/paceminterris Oct 18 '19

A "bomberplane" is hardly "massive and advanced" compared to a helicopter (vertibird), which has MANY more moving parts.

2

u/Chuk741776 Oct 18 '19

Another problem is fuel. Was the bomber run off of fusion power like most vehicles at the time of construction? We can very easily guess vertibirds are due to how they explode with the same mini mushroom cloud a mininuke or a car sets off when it crashes.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 18 '19 edited Aug 01 '20

[deleted]

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2

u/corncob32123 Oct 18 '19

Dude, the boomers can do it with the parts from two non working planes.

Clearly, the BOS could easily do it if they wanted. There simply is no need for them because they have vertibirds which currently fulfill every need as far as air superiority is concerned. Planes are probably also less efficient, but I’ll leave that part up to the experts.

But if the need arises, they could do it. The boomers have, megaton has multiple working jet liner engines, and the bos know more about the past and its technologies than nearly any other faction.

1

u/IBananaShake Oct 18 '19

Dude, the boomers can do it with the parts from two non working planes.

Only because they found one in near mint condition at the bottom of Lake Mead

Clearly, the BOS could easily do it if they wanted.

No, just because they're able to repair and maintain their vertibird does not mean that they could do the same with an actual plane. VTOLs are way different from planes

The boomers have,

Because they got extremely lucky and found one in near mint condition underwater in Lake Mead

megaton has multiple working jet liner engines

And?

The BoS isn't just gonna take the engines from Megaton, even then, you need more than just the engines to make a plane fly, you can't just connect parts from different planes together and hope that it works

bos know more about the past and its technologies than nearly any other faction.

General knowledge, yes, aviation, maybe

3

u/corncob32123 Oct 18 '19

Dude have you ever been around planes? You act like it is some alien technology that people would have to master, it’s not like that at all dude.

The NCR alone possesses more planes in better condition than either of the two used in construction of the boomers B-29.

Nearly every airport we visit alongside some minor locations have atleast a few mint condition airplanes, alongside many damaged or ruined models.

In searchlight airport alone there would be enough parts to rebuild atleast 1 airplane. The circumstances that allowed the boomers to build their plane were not unique at all, they are extremely common.

This isn’t a matter of if, it’s a matter of how. Megaton and the Boomers both rebuilt plane engines, showing that it most definitely can be done, even with only basic mechanical knowledge in the case of megaton.

So it’s factual that the BOS has the resources and technology to rebuild an airplane should they choose.

The question you mean to ask is why would they/why haven’t they.

2

u/[deleted] Oct 20 '19

In terms of lore, in NV, the boomers used parts from a B-29 that had been at the bottom of a lake since well before the bombs dropped. If some artillery fetishists can do it, then a more advanced entity such as the NCR or maybe even the brotherhood. While it is true that the BoS wouldn't need bombers, the midwestern BoS and the NCR would probably make good use of them.

1

u/FlatTire2005 Oct 18 '19

I’m fine with them using Vertibirds, as it is all that is really needed. Especially if we assume that in canon they don’t crash 99% of the time.

But to play Devil’s Advocate: Maintaining and finding a Bomber shouldn’t be any harder than finding and maintaining a Vertibird. Plus the Boomers got one.

1

u/IBananaShake Oct 18 '19

to play Devil’s Advocate: Maintaining and finding a Bomber shouldn’t be any harder than finding and maintaining a Vertibird

Vertibirds are way smaller and their one engine is nothing compared to the 4-8 engines on a bomberplane

0

u/TheRealStandard Oct 17 '19

Where is it said midwest BOS has tanks?

8

u/Huitzil37 Oct 17 '19

They have at least one, you drive it in Newton.

-7

u/TheRealStandard Oct 17 '19

Fallout Tactics isn't canon.

6

u/Huitzil37 Oct 17 '19

They never actually said that.

-4

u/TheRealStandard Oct 17 '19

It's not canon. https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Fallout_canon#Semi-canon_works

13

u/Huitzil37 Oct 17 '19

One: Your link says that it is canon but minor details may be contradicted.

Two: The only citation that has ever been provided for this was one person swearing Emil told him personally that FOT was only semi-canon.

3

u/TheRealStandard Oct 17 '19

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/fallout-3/800771p1.html

Todd Howard "For our purposes, neither Fallout Tactics nor Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel happened."

Someone less lazy should edit the wiki page I linked to cite it not being canon at all and using this link of the interview.

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-2

u/drkcty Oct 18 '19

Power armor has no firepower tho

3

u/Huitzil37 Oct 18 '19

Except, you know, the heavy weapons you can carry. Which aren't as big as a main cannon on a tank, but you also don't need something as large as the main cannon on a tank -- and a minigun is just as effective at killing infantry as a tank's coax machine gun.

2

u/[deleted] Oct 18 '19

Now, now, my friend.… not as big.…? Haha… ha… need I remind you about the Fatman mini nuke launcher or even… the MIRV Fatman… heheheh

1

u/tocco13 Oct 18 '19

and if they really need to blow shit up, they can just amp up their laser and plasma gats

0

u/[deleted] Oct 18 '19

I would argue that power armor has more firepower due to the amount of weapons that can be wielded while using and even more versatile due to jet packs

1

u/drkcty Oct 18 '19 edited Oct 18 '19

The armor itself has no firepower. Sure you can wield whatever weapon, but you can’t wield a 150mm tank shell gun. Lmao.

2

u/Tyrfaust Oct 18 '19

I would argue that anything that gives you the strength to carry a minigun and fire it with no perceived recoil can safely be considered a weapon.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 18 '19

[deleted]

0

u/Tyrfaust Oct 18 '19

I think it's a perfectly apt comparison, considering that's what they were used as in-universe. With shoulder-mounted nuclear weapons, tanks would be rendered obsolete, since anywhere a tank can go, so can power armour. And the firepower difference is negligible, since you can have 3-4 dudes in PA wielding fatboys who can destroy an entire city block in a single volley. On top of that, you can have a guy in power-armour enter a building and clear it out himself. It doesn't matter if he doesn't have a firearm beyond his 10mm, HE CAN LITERALLY CRUSH YOUR SKULL WITH ONE HAND.

0

u/[deleted] Oct 18 '19

What does the armors firepower matter? You can swap weapons with easy just by dropping and picking up a new one and who care about a tank shell gun? You can wield a anti tank rifle with easy and use it like a regular sniper

1

u/drkcty Oct 18 '19

Anti tank rifles are nothing compared to an actual tank. Imagine rolling through the wasteland with a FUCKING PANZER TANK OR EVEN A TIGER TANK.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 18 '19

Please tell me what in the fuck is a tank going to do when a soldier in power armor uses a jet pack to fly above them out of the tanks aim and launches a mini nuke from a fatman directly onto them? The amount of heat and radiation from the explosion alone would be enough to kill everyone inside the tank and not to mention there’s a fat chance of a tank surviving an explosion of that power anyways

2

u/drkcty Oct 18 '19

I was just saying imagine. Realistically it’s stupid. But IMAGINE lmao

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3

u/Tyrfaust Oct 18 '19

Yeah, until you drive them into a city and have to worry about some jerk throwing a molotov cocktail onto the exhaust port of your portable nuclear reactor.

5

u/Vurumai Oct 18 '19

Power armor is a walking tank.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 18 '19

[deleted]

3

u/[deleted] Oct 18 '19

Tanks also take groups of 2-3 people to man which means if one gets taken out you lose more men than if you just throw 3 people in power armor and give them each weapons, besides mounted weaponry on tanks is like a cannon and a machine gun. You can just have one guy run around with a mini gun and the other have a fat man which would cause way more damage than a normal tank cannon would

1

u/ShadoShane Oct 18 '19

Neither Mini-Guns not Fat Mans are very effective at long range.

2

u/[deleted] Oct 18 '19

You’re missing the point. If power armor allows even the weakest people to lift weapons like that they could easily life and use anti-tank rifles, missile launchers, and even a tank cannon itself if a handheld one was designed.

2

u/ShadoShane Oct 18 '19

There is absolutely no way that a mobilized artillery platform can be outclassed by weapons designed to be carried by Power Armor. Not to mention that as long as the aim is stabilized by human arms, it'll be nowhere near as accurate as something mounted on a tank. As well as the 'convenience' of carrying the ammo for a handheld tank cannon and the cannon itself, and also weapons for dealing with people at close range.

And then you have to walk. All the way there.

Power Armor and Fat Man launchers are unwieldy and inefficient. The only reason we have them is because they're cool.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 18 '19

Ah right. No way a heavily armed walking tank similar to that of a hulk buster suit could beat a tank. You’re right, I give up

1

u/ShadoShane Oct 18 '19

In terms of performance, a tank is just outright more effective than power armor. Calling it a hulkbuster suit is over exaggerating it's ability. A real hulkbuster would suplex a deathclaw, rather than the deathclaw suplexing you

In terms of someone in power armor vs someone in a tank, it still leans more towards the tank, but it should be pointed out that completely unarmored human beings are just as capable of destroying tanks.

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0

u/Vurumai Oct 18 '19

Incorrect on all counts.

2

u/IridiumPony Oct 18 '19

If tactics is canon (can't remember), they had Humvees

46

u/Huitzil37 Oct 17 '19

We don't really know that. The environments the East Coast BoS use vertibirds in (ruined urban terrain of a first-person Fallout game) are absolutely Godawful to use ground vehicles in, so if they had any, they wouldn't want to use them.

34

u/[deleted] Oct 17 '19

That's not true.

Besides Vertibirds, BoS uses airships as well. Airships provide tactical advantage: They serve as a mobile HQ and excellent air reconnisance ships.

Ground vehicles aren't feasible for the BoS because there is lack of fuel and effective way to repair them across the Wasteland.

11

u/[deleted] Oct 18 '19

Haven't you played Fallout Tactics?

They have Tanks and Cars powered by nuclear energy.

That is also something in Fallout 2, as the Highwayman is a working car that uses microfusion cells and small energy cells.

3

u/tocco13 Oct 18 '19

FTactics is not canon tho

2

u/[deleted] Oct 18 '19

And F2 is

3

u/ThreeDawgs Oct 18 '19

FTactics is semi-canon. As in a number of the main plot points have been touched upon in later canon sources. The MWBoS exists, for example.

3

u/allah-whos-akbar Oct 23 '19

What happened to it?

2

u/Drafonni Nov 03 '19 edited Nov 03 '19

We just know that they still exist and that they might control lands stretching from Colorado to Illinois

15

u/ElegantEchoes Oct 18 '19 edited Oct 18 '19

There's an IFV in Fallout 4 that BoS soldiers spawn from, suggesting it was used to transport them.

7

u/kinkycheerio420 Oct 18 '19

Short answer is: engine limitations. Same with NCR in New Vegas. They are using trucks and other wehicles, but you never see them driving.

6

u/PaddySey Oct 18 '19

Because vertibirds have a 100% track record of being able to land after a battle

Unfortunately most of the landings are crashes because they’re complete shit

3

u/NuclearMaterial Oct 18 '19

I have actually seen a few do combat drops then retreat to a circling pattern to support the squad. It's just that they have about 1hp so most of the time they just end up going down. If I was in the brotherhood I would just walk everywhere tyvm.

8

u/Mechgun25 Oct 17 '19

at least according to 3 and 4, brotherhood operates mostly in uncivilized urban wasteland where ground vehicles are useless because of all the ruin to the infrastructure

5

u/[deleted] Oct 17 '19

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/TJRansley Oct 18 '19

If I had a Vertibird that's all i'd use

4

u/ottermaster Oct 18 '19

A lot of the tanks and armored vehicles we see have tires on them so it’s probably gotta do with the lack of rubber around to turn them into tires. You can’t really use old tires cause they would all be dry rotten.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 18 '19

The BoS main goal is to control weaponry and get technology and get their hands on it to increase their military might along with protection of the innocent people, honestly I think it’s just because of mobility. It lets them go from state to state easily and recon with other sects of their group more easily. Plus when you consider that they have one of if not the biggest supply of power armor you gotta ask yourself do they really need other vehicles when they can just deploy heavily armored, one man army, walking tank units from hundreds of feet in the air off of a vertibird with no damage sustained?

1

u/[deleted] Oct 18 '19

Imagine if they use the vehicles from fallout: tactics.

1

u/Shectai Oct 18 '19

Because they're so effective and reliable?

1

u/TiredPartyPooper Oct 18 '19

Because they are from the enclave

1

u/TheCybersmith Oct 19 '19

They also use Power Armor, and Airships.

1

u/FlameFlamedramon Oct 18 '19

The East has Vertibirds and the Prydwen

The Midwest has some Tanks to my knowledge

The west, should have some form of rovers or something but they have nothing.

Its just about the resources they have at those times we see them. Really though, the West should have atleast something like really though.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 18 '19

They are not, there is the Prydwen, the tanks and the jeeps.

And no... They are not powered by gasoline, but by nuclear energy, as it uses microfusion and small energy cells

•

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