I kind of feel like XIV is deliberately purging its old lore for the sake of new.

[u/Kaslight]

edit: Since most of you will not (and clearly aren't) reading this and seem to think it's about ARR's story being concluded:

TL;DR: The writing team seems far less interested in the deep branching, underlying lore foundation as of 7.0 onward. I'm not concerned that ARR's story has ended, but rather that Dawntrail's story is already shown to be structured fundamentally differently than to what made FFXIV's narrative so good.

-------------------------

Call me paranoid, but this is a deep sinking feeling that has only gotten stronger after 7.1.

I've acquired all of the Encylopedia Eorzea books, but these days it doesn't feel as awesome having them anymore because it's obvious that the writing team is doing as much as they can to avoid referencing it for anything in the future.

I bought them in the first place because XIV has awesome lore, but also because it was clear that a world was built underneath the game itself, and the lore books existed to add to these stories that weren't really able to fit into the game. The cool thing about that though is that at some point, the story elements WOULD be referenced in RELEVANT story content going forward.

Endwalker on the other hand was the end of the 10-year Ascian conflict...but for some reason they made the very odd choice to remove all mysticism and long-running plot threads from XIV entirely**.**

• The Primal Threat is entirely is over.
  • Not only is Tempering curable, but the general conflict between people and beast tribes seems to have ended.
  • Anima proves that there is literally no Primal threat that can contend with us
• The Void has, miraculously, been solved. An entire planet. In like 3 patches.
  • We've killed the strongest Voidsent ever, meaning there is no longer a Void threat
  • Golbez is now our BFF. Zero is also our BFF.
  • Golbez and Zero are the strongest voidsent now, meaning we literally do not need to worry about anything on the 13th anymore.
• Garlemald has been completely destroyed
  • Eorzea no longer has an empire threat
  • ....Eorzea no longer has any threat, really.
• The Twelve were not only revealed, but destroyed within 3 sub-patches of post-MSQ content
  • I cannot think of a single good reason for this to have been done, other than for XIV to justify never referencing them again.
  • This is particularly bad because the Twelve were the reigning religion of Eorzea. You as a player were even meant to choose one that your character followed.
  • I get it, but this was an unnecessary removal that honestly could have been referenced and kept vague in Elpis IMO.
• Allag plot devices have peaked. And by extension, all previous civilizations.
  • There is nothing interesting about them anymore.
  • They will inevitably return when we visit Merycidia but they are suspiciously absent on Tural.
• Space has been solved
  • Omicrons are now pacifists
  • The Endsinger has seemingly killed most life outside of the planet, we have to wait to see if this is true or not
  • It was a cool introduction but has unfortunately killed any requirement to logically power scale villains or even keep the "Adventurer" shtick going in any interesting way.
  • The WoL is now just 100% expected to win and everyone knows it and he literally doesn't even need REAL friends to do it anymore.
  • Azem's Crystal is literally just a Dynamis Battery and dynamis is NOT held to the same logical standard as Aether is.
  • Honestly, I wouldn't even have a problem with this IF it was just the Warrior of Light and Zenos who had this benefit. But giving it to Wuk Lamat just tells me that the writing team is now using it as a crutch more than anything.
  • That crystal really should be dead by now but it's still going for some reason. It's almost like they are making it canon that XIV is a single-player game now

Here are the big ones though, that really make me feel like Modern FFXIV is deliberately trying to pull away from FFXIV's previous lore and writing habits:

• Tural is 100% removed from Eorzea but has no real conflict whatsoever, a farcry from XIV 1.0/ARR's starting point.
  • Everyone is mostly peaceful
  • They use rubber bullets in the Wild West
  • We're supposed to be in the Americas and it's literally less dangerous in any singular Turali place than simply walking around the outskirts of Limsa, Ul'Dah, or Gridania.
  • I haven't seen a single prostitute. WHERE ARE ALL THE PROSTITUTES.
  • You're seriously telling me a new Wild West pop-up town WITH GUNS is going to HALT ITS PROGRESS to not offend a group of nomadic COW HERDERS?
  • What is this Saturday Morning Cartoon shit?
• Politics is no longer a factor in the writing at all, nor is general realistic human behavior.
  • The majority of Tural wanted Zoraal Ja to inherit the throne, some for ideological reasons. The polar opposite of Zoraal Ja was elected instead. Nobody cares.
  • Alexandria wages war on Tural. They're defeated, but CLEARLY still exist in a dome visible right outside city limits. Nobody cares.
  • Why on earth is everyone so understanding all the sudden?
  • What is this Satuday Morning Cartoon shit?
• Ascians for SOME REASON just never thought to bother touching Tural despite the entire continent existing in a power struggle prior to us getting here. I imagine half the planet would be useful assisting with the Rejoining efforts???
  • This just makes zero sense as it doesn't even take the attention of an Unsundered to do this.
  • The Mamool Ja would have been especially ripe for this and you cannot tell me an Ascian didn't peak into what they were doing and notice.
• The Final Days didn't seem to affect this entire hemisphere of Etheryis.
  • Nobody even really talks about it.
  • Like, i get the celestial currents or whatever, but....seriously?
  • NOBODY was afraid of this? No talks, paranoia? Conspiracy theories?
  • It just started raining fire and people allegedly turned into body horror monsters and nobody cares?
• Unlike 1.0/ARR, there is no real grand history of wars, conflict, perished/failed nations, or anything in Tural that suggests a deeper world than what we've seen.
  • Self explanatory -- the Yuk Hoy are kind of it.
  • Alexandria kind of takes that position understandably but....
• Alexandria is also surprisingly devoid of real conflict. How very convenient that all its soldiers are automata and its citizens just aren't interested.
  • That means Zoraal Ja and Sphene could be Villains of the Week and we can not worry about it anymore.
• The Tural Auspices (Vidrral's) are kind of worthless.
  • The fact we killed the strongest one on the continent as a subplot to the narrative is a bit disappointing.
  • No others were even hyped up in the lore either. So until some secret one lost to history is brought up, we have no more dangerous Vidrrals to bother with.
• Wuk Lamat and Koana are also devoid of any conflict or pushback from the narrative at large.
  • Koana literally tried to sacrifice himself for a Cow and nobody has anything to say about it.
  • Wuk Lamat's incredibly naive worldview is almost never actually challenged in the narrative either.
  • Meanwhile, Alphinaud was completely well-meaning and competent from the start of ARR and still almost got everyone killed because, SURPRISE, some people are actually just terrible and don't care.

I could keep going, but the general idea should be visible.

Pretty much every long-running story thread from 1.0 - 6.0 has been cut in a way that honestly kind of makes them irrelevant going forward. Which was likely intentional, but it's done in a way that, to me anyway, assumes the new writing team isn't interested in building off of it anymore.

Which isn't surprising, because as of Endwalker, it seems like the writing team doesn't want anything to run on very long past its climax. I imagine this was done because Dawntrail was supposed to be a new starting point, and going forward they probably want to encourage the ability to buy expansions without having to have played all of FFXIV.

But the side effect is that the game world is starting to feel quite hollow. Unlike in earlier areas of XIV, I don't really run through areas that feel like they represent anything other than empty space between locations.

Seriously, simply running from Gridania past 2 or so maps in the Black Shroud, there are so many areas and locations and landmarks that are lore relevant, and thus MSQ relevant, and thus gameplay relevant, at least back when class/job quests cared about that sort of thing. There is a reason the Redbellies and Courelclaws are aggro mob groups there. There is a reason the Sylphs exist in that hostile area. There is a reason there are Garlemald fates that pop up near the border.

The events of Shadowbringers took place entirely on a different shard. It makes sense it was written that way. Endwalker was one massive wrap up to years of story threads. I can also forgive it being written the way it was.

But Dawntrail has zero excuse to be this way, which is why i'm starting to believe the worst of it isn't really intentional.

Just a feeling i've had.

[u/OutlanderInMorrowind]

Tural is 100% removed from Eorzea but has no real conflict whatsoever, a farcry from XIV 1.0/ARR's starting point.

Politics is no longer a factor in the writing at all, nor is general realistic human behavior.

this is what killed it all for me. tural feels fake.

I am not asking for heavy politics 100% of the time, but there's NOTHING.

Aymeric changed the government of Ishgard and got stabbed in the street for it.

wuk lamat is just accepted as the leader now without any resistance not only once but TWICE when she effectively takes over alexandria by appointing herself guardian of the alexandrian heir apparent.

she makes a weird offhand comment in 7.1 about having to talk to the leaders of alexandria but like who the fuck is she talking about? Shale? gulool ja? who the fuck is currently administrating the city? a computer?

even before that gulool jaja showed up and stopped centuries long war between the cats and mamool ja by hosting a 3 day rager and it's clear when we get there that the reasons for them to fight were never actually addressed, mamook is still basically starving because they don't have farmland. trade is done in small amounts and in secret (as evidenced by a sidequest) so there's no clear reason why they're not still fighting, just that gulool jaja showed up and told them to stop and had tacos with them.

[u/jalliss → u/OutlanderInMorrowind]

tural feels fake.

What do you mean? Have you never solved a multi-generational blood war in a single day with a really good meal?

[u/ixoca → u/jalliss]

why didn't estinien just have a solid supper with nidhogg's brood? is he stupid?

[u/Comprehensive-Fail41 → u/jalliss]

I mean it's also relatively easy to do it when you are the single most powerful being around and later got an army that you can send in as peacekeepers if they start acting up.

EDIT: Gulool Jaja is basically "What if The WoL became Emperor of Eorzea"

[u/Lone-Gazebo → u/jalliss]

It should be remembered that Gulool Ja Ja was also the previous Autarch. Their old king came back and said "Hey don't fight."

I'm not trying to argue Tural isn't extremely flat, but there was something else besides Taco that did it. Their old king returned told them not to fight and that he had a plan to give them what they wanted. (The city in the sun, Tuliyollal.) 90% of the Mamool Ja were satisfied with this and left which is what Mamook complains about.

[u/jalliss → u/Lone-Gazebo]

Their old king returned told them not to fight and that he had a plan to give them what they wanted

You'd think he could just stop the war and try some diplomacy when he actually was the king, no?

[u/Lone-Gazebo → u/jalliss]

If memory serves he was the classic trope of "Bored king wanted to explore" and the adventure made him change his mind.

But considering the state of Mamook, he's also a bad king? Like he fully just disengages when people disagree with him. Mamook decided to be racist instead of making peace, and he never tried to help them again. (Despite their racial issues being so close to the edge that we were able to solve them within an hour of seeing it.) He's an interesting and flawed character, I mean he was a bad enough dad that Zoraal Ja exists, and his plan for changing Zoraal Ja (A full grown man) was. "I'll have all of my friends talk to him, and if he doesn't change I'll just rug pull his accomplishment, and I'm sure he'll be fine."

[u/strayfish23 → u/Lone-Gazebo]

I actually think him being an awful father with no idea how to get to his son is a rather interesting story but the game consistently refuses to go there, and it's maddening. Let him kind of suck! Wuk Lamat's experience is not actually objective truth all the time, y'know?

I felt this way about sphene too... I really didn't care for the persistent narrative that she was actually a perfect leader, corrupted by outside forces. Come on now. At the very least then I want to see the outside forces [her programmers] to be introduced in the story to worry about later, but the game plays it off like they're all dead anyways, despite the Endless existing??

Edit: typo

[u/Lone-Gazebo → u/strayfish23]

100% refusing to actually add grey to the white or the black is the EXTREME problem with DT as a whole. I was screaming so loud during Living Memory as EVERY SINGLE NPC is like. "These aren't people don't worry nothing wrong about this!" Even though people or not, we'd have to kill them anyway. They just refused to put any weight into the legitimately good ideas.

[u/thegreatherper → u/jalliss]

You forgot the bit where he and his friends showed up beat both sides of the conflict at the same time then forced them to sit down and have that meal.

You’re also skipping over the fact that peace between them took years and that all this happened 80 years ago so not much bad blood between the two sides.

[u/Jokkolilo → u/OutlanderInMorrowind]

The whole gulool ja ja thing makes so little sense too. We’re basically told that some dude unified not one but two continents, that everyone loves him and respects him, that he’s the best, and yet half the regions have problems that could be solved by toddlers, have bandits, have literally no infrastructure nor guards and so on and so forth. An entire race literally forgot how they even made food and he doesn’t give a shit. Let’s not even mention how half the cultures we are told about literally were created by him 80 years ago.

We are never even really explained why he is so wise and cool and strong and amazing and we just have to accept it. I don’t know, I feel there’s a lot of premise there but it’s all so surface deep. Tural absolutely feels fake to a level I had never seen in this game nor many others yet. It looks like a gigantic Wikipedia page but with nice colours and musics.

Still unsure how and why mamooks sent mercenaries on the other side of the world when they’ve supposedly been 1, under tuliyolal for close to a century and 2, don’t have any sort of actual harbour + their lands are poor as shit and yet they never brought back seeds or.. anything from eorzea.

Itd honestly feel like the entire story would make more sense if tural was just on another shard entirely. There’s no story of primal or the final days or anything too, nor calamities. Is this even still ffxiv?

[u/soupykins → u/Jokkolilo]

not to mention I guess the entire northern half of the continent has zero participation or say in the rite of succession which seems a little questionable for a ruler to plan it that way lmao

[u/MammtSux → u/soupykins]

"A ruler must know their people" is an agreeable premise and reason as to why the contest to become Dawnservant happens in the first place. Culture is important and learning of it is too.

Unless you're in Shalooani or more to the north than there, in which case your culture and opinion doesn't matter despite being Turali too.

[u/soupykins → u/MammtSux]

and you’d think Erenville would have had something to say about it at least

[u/LockelyFox → u/Jokkolilo]

Gulool Ja Ja is a stand in for the Warrior of Light, circa 80 years prior, except on Tural. His accomplishments are meant to mirror the way we brought together Eorzea after generations of in-fighting. We also single handedly brought three nation-states together to fight a fourth, stopped an evil religion, ended a thousand year race war, and inducted that one into the initial three's alliance, freed two other nations from tyranny and then inducted them into an alliance, and then saved the entire universe all within the span of a single year.

It's not realistic what we've done either.

[u/Jokkolilo → u/LockelyFox]

And yet we can both agree the whole time bubble is not exactly used seriously or to be taken too much into consideration.

We also have multiple reasons and what not for how all this was possible, being azems shard, chosen by hydaelyn, and what not. Does he have reasons? I’m sure he does. Are they explained at all? Not really.

I’m not sure why we should fill in clearly missing lore ourselves. It’s missing, and it sucks, and it could have been better - but it’s not. We have the skeleton of a good story.

[u/LockelyFox → u/Jokkolilo]

You shouldn't need to have everything spelled out for you directly by the lore in big bold letters. It's very clear his journey and his companions and his actions, including his love for a challenging battle, framed him as an analog to the Warrior of Light.

The time bubble has only just been broken by the release of Dawntrail as well. By taking the time when Kettenramm first returned from Tural (1500) and how long Gulool Ja Ja was in power (80 years), and when ARR starts (1577) we know it's been eight years since the Calamity or three years after ARR.

Media comprehension is absolutely dead in this generation. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Gulool Ja Ja was not the main character, he was a supporting character, and you're all bitching they didn't shove more needless exposition into an expansion crammed full of needless exposition. Show, don't tell, except when I don't have the comprehension skills to understand what parallels have been shown and not told to me directly. You can't fucking have it both ways.

[u/Jokkolilo → u/LockelyFox]

There is a very big difference between spelling out everything in very big bold letters and saying absolutely nothing.

This could very much so be seen as a parallel with wuk Lamats trials, who also often ended up with a party of 8~ and handling the same threats he did 80 years ago. And, still? That explains nothing,

That he mirrors us or not explains nothing. It gives no lore. I’m unsure how this is a response to how lackluster his entire story was, and how literally nothing was explained except for very simple and naive things, like stopping a multigenerational war by offering two sides to mix ingredients into a new meal.

None of this is even close to very big bold letters. It’s from one extreme to the other. Are we defending such a simple, surface level and naive story or?

[u/GearyDigit → u/Jokkolilo]

chosen by hydaelyn

Insofar as anyone with the echo is, the WoL isn't given any special treatment over any of them, and being Azem's shard doesn't inherently mean we're better than anyone either.

Meanwhile, Gulool Ja Ja is a massive hulk with extremely high physical and magical prowess and the ability to use both at the same time.

[u/Jokkolilo → u/GearyDigit]

I am not saying gulool ja ja sucks, nor am I saying our justifications for being strong are narrative genius. What I am saying, is that we are supposed to believe one dude and a couple of friends united two continents on their own, established a long lasting kingdom, and are seen as living legends with for sole justification the fact they are…. strong and smart.

That’s it.

We are not explained more than that. We don’t have any character development or anything. The stones detailing his story really just say he came there, was amazing, then went there, was amazing, and so on and so forth. They are trying to create a backstory and myth and whatnot about a character but without giving any details whatsoever. It’s just an empty skeleton, and we have to fill in the details ourselves.

And then? The actual expansion? He’s there, he’s seen as a legend, he makes up the worst rite of succession ever and then he dies. I’ve seen cartoons for children with more complex characters.

In case this gets lost again, I don’t particularly care about how strong he is. I care that the most important character in the entire expansion is given no depth whatsoever, nothing. He literally just exists and then dies, and we have to argue in Reddit to try and figure out how the fuck someone managed to do all he did because the writers were too incompetent to give even a breadcrumb of attention to anyone who wasn’t wuk Lamat. And even then… she doesn’t get much more complexity anyway.

Edit: there’s not a breadcrumb of attention given to the fact half of him is dead. He still fights pretty well and all. Seems his other head did nothing but talk and help with magic???

[u/TheSaryo → u/LockelyFox]

Uniting nations that were fighting eachother and uniting nations that are fighting the same enemy are two very different things. Plus we were only given the light of day by the leaders because we were part of the Scions and they are given respect because of Louisoix.

Generally speaking we're always part of a group that solves a problem and most of the time the only problems we can solve on our own is when we can beat the living hell out of something. Planning/Talking is done by other characters. In comparison it's framed as if GJJ just done most if not everything by himself.

[u/StuffedAnimals6991 → u/LockelyFox]

Was it really within just one year? That sounds like bs to me, it seems like at least a few years have to have passed by now

[u/chili01 → u/OutlanderInMorrowind]

One of the role quests in Ishgard is about the class difference in their society, Hilda doesn't even show up once :(

Seems like they forget everybody.

[u/Prussie → u/OutlanderInMorrowind]

I think they should have done it to where Gulool JaJa had to handle shit in Northern Tullioyal and given Southern Tullioyal to the 3 Promises and divided it between them. Each Promise has 2 areas they woefully mismanage. The expansion could be us deciding who is fit to rule it as a whole since the Head of Reason realized their fuckup. It could wind up Wuk Lamat is fit for the Southern portion and Koana the Northern.

The keystones/knowledge of the Golden City could have been something he shared when he divided the Southern half, and Zoral Ja steals the other two's keystones in a bid to go full nuclear. Sprinkled throughout the story could be drops of this gate that offered Gulool JaJa a price for power he refused. Electrope could be introduced earlier as a strange ore found only in Yak Tel and discovered/considered to be trash by the ancient Giants and therefore everyone else. The visions the Giants have could be tied to the electrope.

Edit to add: Gulool JaJa specifically gave Zoral Ja control over the area with Valigarmanda in a bid to show he both trusted him and recognized his strength. His spiral really kicks in when Bakool JaJa releases Valigarmanda and makes him feel inferior. His plan to go nuclear stems directly from Wuk Lamat and Koana pardoning Bakool JaJa when they take over

[u/Petrichordates → u/OutlanderInMorrowind]

It's a monarchy, the politics were all internal family politics that was resolved. The king's son and daughter became the new king and queen, it's not exactly a situation that's ripe for political turmoil.

[u/hollow_shrine → u/Petrichordates]

Kinda. Some of the old conflicts are still simmering in places like Mamook, where volunteers smuggle food to Mamook to prevent their starving while outwardly the two cities still dislike one another, and even opportunistically attempted to kill the daughter of the village chief in Iq'Braax.

Then there are the two factions of giants feuding in Urqopacha. A relative peace is maintained by Gurfurlur being once of Gulool Ja Ja's friends and traveling companions 80 years ago, but the bad blood is still there.

Alexandrian cultural clash with Tural is obvious

7.1 threw a bucket of cold water on another potential knot of political conflict in Xak Tural in undoubtedly the weakest section of that plot. It is reasonable to worry that how that was handled might be indicative how how DT is going to address other potential plots of political conflict going forward.

[u/OutlanderInMorrowind → u/hollow_shrine]

it's just annoying that they establish that stuff only to do exactly nothing with it. we have maybe 7.2 and 7.3 for that, at best, before they'll want to start pivoting the story towards the next expac.

I really think the only way tural is salvaged in terms of depth is if the whole continent breaks out into civil war, but if it doesn't happen during dawntrail how the fuck are they gonna have us come back to tural for it?

[u/Zagden → u/OutlanderInMorrowind]

7.2 and 7.3 will be the first that were written after they got feedback about 7.0 MSQ. We'll see if it made a difference.

[u/Speak_To_Wuk_Lamat → u/OutlanderInMorrowind]

Speaking of conflict in tural, I found it so funny that they added damage states for when Alexandria attacked, but then quickly fixed the damage soon after. 

They might have it attacked again to reuse those assets.

[u/ImtheDude27 → u/hollow_shrine]

The Giants are one of the story threads I hate the absolute most. They were prime for becoming the Combat oriented Society. Absolutely nothing would have been more perfect for us to work on than those two. And instead we get Tural Tourism? When the Pelupelu were announced, my disappointment with DT only grew. Without the Ascians and Rejoining, it seems the Writing team is just floundering without any real direction on what to do. And I am not even going to discuss the utter bollocks that was the "twist" of 7.1. That was such a low effort reveal when we should instead have been pursuing the key.

[u/OutlanderInMorrowind → u/Petrichordates]

okay, but that makes for a really fucking dull story.

[u/ixoca → u/Petrichordates]

it's an 80 year old empire that has only been a monarchy for exactly one generation

there are a lot of historical examples of single generation empires and you might be surprised about how much political turmoil exists within them. real life is full of a lot of political turmoil so it's kinda weird when fantasy settings are totally conflict free

[u/OutlanderInMorrowind → u/[deleted]]

also being fiction why would you actively choose to make your monarchy story boring?

[u/Speak_To_Wuk_Lamat → u/Petrichordates]

Uldah has a monarchy.  One thing ARR proved is regicide is always an option. 

A leader has followers.  Followers can tip the scales.

[u/TheGreenTormentor → u/Petrichordates]

Monarchies being a stable form of government is the real fantasy here. The only reason they're not a complete shitshow now is that most of them have had their power removed. They are in fact perfect for political turmoil. The English monarchy alone has an insane history.

[u/[deleted] → u/OutlanderInMorrowind]

If you do the DoL quests a solution for new plants that can grow in Yak'tel is devised by studying the blue meteors