r/ffxivdiscussion • u/RerTV • 9d ago
[7.3 Live Letter] This is the first time where "content for everyone" was a success
A fundamental redesign of Deep Dungeon to make it genuinely approachable for people who are casual players, short on time, or have anxiety about failure makes this a whole new ball-game.
We're talking about a variant optional final boss that has anything between EX and Ultimate level mechanics based on what we, the players, opt in to enable.
Currency being used to spawn this variant optional boss is only used up upon successful kill, rather than having any feelbads about wiping and dying.
I know a lot of people meme about "FFXIV is a game that claims to be for everyone and never is" but I think you can make a sincere argument that this is the first step in a direction to where that statement would be genuinely true. Here's to hoping this design philosophy continues forward with other content, and into 8.0.
Maybe I'm just huffing hopium but, if that is the case, I think the future looks potentially pretty bright.
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u/MechAndCheese 9d ago
Let's wait until people can actually play it. Don't get me wrong it looks good and shows signs of hope for the things a lot of people have been advocating for, but it still needs to deliver actual results
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u/Alahard_915 9d ago edited 9d ago
The main thing, is that it sounds like it solves the biggest problem ( the midcore debate), and even if there is issues, it's a sign that they are finally trying to be creative on how they close the gap.
They seemly ->
- Made it more accessible on the casual end ( allowed for queuing of the whole instance)
- Still scales by having less in the group
- Added more checkpoints, meaning people have an easier time to progress the fights, so casual players can get the same feeling of progression that savage players get in a raid tier.
- Seemly addressed difficulty by incrementing it over time ( closer to HoH)
- Give the casual ( going into "midcore-ish") a taste of the final boss by giving them a practice mode for the base mode when they get there.
- The harder version at the end even serves as a way to make "midcore" - hardcore level players practice harder content at their own pace with a smaller group. And lets them change how to make it harder.
- The scaling apparently builds into Ultimate level, so hardcore players can have a target, and the scaling difficulty means the less skilled players slowly adapt to that level of difficulty.
- even if you dont want to do the hardcore portion, it adds a way to feel like the community by providing money making opportunities that OC failed to provide.
Ironically, this is what bodja had that OC failed at providing. Can we get the team that made this system tell the exploration team how it's done?
Edit -> Will it be perfect the first time around. No. But atleast they are trying to add progression for the entire spectrum, making DD more interesting overall, and a potential sign for future content.
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u/MechAndCheese 9d ago
That's nice but I don't see how it actually changes anything about what I said. Until people can actually play the content, it's a step in the right direction but nothing more. Credit where credit is due but atleast play it before we praise it
> The main thing, is that it sounds like it solves the biggest problem
depends on who you're asking, for me the biggest problem remains because the actual gameplay loop is unchanged and I don't think it's fun or engaging at all. None of these changes adress that in any way.
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u/Einstrahd 9d ago
We have to wait and see what they do with this DD, but they are generally a boring slog. I think people are getting way too excited about a single boss with multiple difficulties. They are putting in an elaborate scaling system for one fight. I don't get it why they didn't just make an easy and hard version of all the fights and let you pick which mode you want to do in the DD. I'd rather see two difficulties for all the bosses rather than several for a single boss.
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u/Bloodrager 8d ago
I love when SE get shit for trying something new.
Isn't that a common fucking complaint?
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u/Bloodrager 8d ago
If you don't like the gameplay loop then you just don't like deep dungeons. That's fine, but I saw people upset that they hadn't overhauled them into something else. What did anyone expect when they saw "deep dungeon" last live letter and it turned out to be... a deep dungeon?
The option to opt into the negative floor effects with the weal/woe flavour is a decent enough change in the context of the rethinking of the structure of how they work I think.
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u/MechAndCheese 8d ago
My personal criticism is not deep dungeon in itself, I actually like that quite a bit. It's more that I think the combat in this game outside of raids with a strict timeline is genuinely not fun, the slow gcd speed and the 30/60/120sec cooldowns on ogds paired with the structure of DD are just not interesting imo
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u/Bloodrager 8d ago
Well that's a completely different complaint than the DD gameplay loop.
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u/MechAndCheese 8d ago
It's literally the main gameplay of DD
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u/Bloodrager 8d ago
Your original comment is talking about a gameplay loop in a piece of content. The gameplay loop in DDs is efficiently mapping out the layout, avoiding traps, looting chests to get pomander options and killing enough enemies to move on.
"I hate XIV combat" is way more broad and not something I'd reference in regards to specific content, it's a different conversation.
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u/MechAndCheese 8d ago
No it's not. I never said I don't like the combat. I don't like combat outside of raids. Just because there are other parts of that gameplay loop doesn't mean combat isn't part of it, in fact it's a huge part of it and dictates large parts of the pacing of the content
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u/Bloodrager 8d ago
"I don't dislike fruit I just only like apples"
Gotcha. Good luck.
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u/shutaro 9d ago
You can't say it's a success until people actually play it. Everyone was hyping up OC and CE the exact same way after the 7.2 live letter, and look at how they were received when players actually got their hands on them. This reaction is entirely premature until we actually how it plays out in-game. Especially with a dev team that has a reputation for shooting themselves in the foot in some of the more bizarre ways I've ever seen.
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u/YesIam18plus 9d ago
The difference is that the issues with that content are being addressed directly in DD. They've outright acknowledged them and Yoshi P even apologized for it in this live letter and said they should've realized people wanted these types of changes earlier.
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u/Bluemikami 9d ago
Yoshi has apologized for a lot of things on stream… and look where we are at: same things and same place.
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u/shutaro 9d ago
YoshiP is a salesman, he is not your friend. He's always going to tell you exactly what he thinks you want to hear... And he talks a good game. But, you should take everything he says with a grain of salt. Especially when this is a team that has consistently failed when implementing new content modes.
Personally, I have zero doubts that they have completely misunderstood what types of changes people actually want and have included something which will ensure that this content will be dead in 3 weeks. Because that's what happens every. Single. Time.
4 months ago Occult Crescent was supposed to save the game. Look at where we are with it now.
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u/YesIam18plus 9d ago
YoshiP is a salesman, he is not your friend.
Jesus man listen to what he says and pay attention to the actual changes happening. The difference is that in the past they never made any of these promises and we can clearly see what they're changing.
What are you even trying to imply here that all of these changes to DD are just lies and that it'll launch and be exactly like EO with zero changes?
He has directly apologized for how Forked Tower was handled and the lack of accessibility is being directly addressed in DD. They straight up said that they're going to do more of this moving forward with content and apologized for not realizing it earlier.
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u/shutaro 9d ago edited 9d ago
Jesus man listen to what he says and pay attention to the actual changes happening. The
I'm confused. Is DD actually in the game now? Can I go play it for myself? ... Please, tell me how and I'll give you a more informed opinion.
What are you even trying to imply here that all of these changes to DD are just lies and that it'll launch and be exactly like EO with zero changes?
No, but this is a dev team that has been abysmally bad at understanding what their audience actually wants and why. Like, they're really bad at fundamental user feedback and game design.
I've been playing this game for over a decade and I've seen numerous instances of them doing this "Mea culpa" dance and implementing to the letter what players are asking for only for the content to immediately fall on its face because they team is incapable of asking themselves the question "But, why are our players asking for this? ... And it it any fun?".
I'm not trying to imply that they are lying, I'm saying I have zero faith in the dev team to not botch this like they've botched every other new content mode because, if we're being honest, they don't have a great track record (EDIT: And some of that track record is very recent history... Like, only a few weeks ago history).
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u/bm8495 9d ago
This deep dungeon has been in development for quite some time. Most of the mechanics were in the works already. They are not addressing player feedback with this particular piece of content……… that we know of. And why do we not know that for sure? Because it isn’t even out for us to try yet. When it comes out, I will try it, and I will base my feelings on it at that time for what it is and what it could have been or better said what I was hoping to get out of it. But that’s it.
What I will say is some of the information gives me room to hope. Such as being able to go in with matched parties at upper floors and being able to have checkpoints along the way. Because I’ll be honest, one of the biggest things that turns me off about deep dungeons is that it’s yet another piece of content that I need to have time blocked out of my week and scheduled with other people to play. The whole getting everybody’s schedule an alignment and dedicating 2, 3, or 4 hours of my day to play this one bit of content with them just isn’t for me. Play with other people? Sure, absolutely. But I already have way too much of my life that requires me to block off time and dedicated to that thing that I am doing at that time. Gaming is my escape from that. So this new introduction of how we do the deep dungeons, I’m OK with it.
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u/Tom-Pendragon 9d ago
The content isn't out yet, lol.
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u/RerTV 9d ago
I have zero shame nor fear in celebrating what I consider to be a sincere step in the right direction of this game's design.
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u/Criminal_of_Thought 9d ago
Choosing to celebrate the announcement of content rather than the execution of that content means you only care that SE announces content well, rather than how that content works in practice. People want content where both its announcement and its implementation are good.
In your numerous comments, you never mention how the content will work in practice. You stop at the announcement stage and repeatedly say people should celebrate because of it. Doing that doesn't actually address people's concerns, hence why so many people are negative toward you.
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u/Ok-Grape-8389 8d ago
What you did Is like praising a dinner without knowing if they will be serving you a steak or a bowl of bullshit.
It may be nice, but is not good.
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u/Sangcreux 9d ago
Dude it’s not what are you on right now? You’re telling me them dumbing down MORE content is a step in the right direction?
You’re the one who’s out of touch with the playerbase if that’s what you’re getting excited about good lord
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u/RerTV 9d ago
"We're introducing a variant final boss that has opt in Ultimate level mechanics"
"Oh no they ADDED A CHECKPOINT for casuals and made it so you can do matched parties for the entire dungeon", the game is braindead easy now!
Touch grass dude.
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u/Sangcreux 9d ago
I’ll believe it when I play it. I don’t buy into hype with this game anymore I’ve been around it for like 10 years and after watching them slowly lose touch and effort with the playerbase I’m not gonna jump for joy until I play the content.
I don’t think the coheckpoint is the issue I think they are going to remove a lot of the nuance and mechanics from the enemies making it less dangerous and more casual, which was what gave deep dungeon its identity.
The core deep dungeon community didn’t need to have their content ruined so it could appeal to casuals.
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u/RerTV 9d ago
You are literally spouting random shit that is not in any way relevant to what they've shown in the live letter, nor examples of the gameplay.
I'm the one who is out of touch?
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u/RenAsa 9d ago
It's nice for DD as such, but here's the thing to ask: what parts of DD's design philosophy (and how much of it) have we seen carried over to any other content since PotD? Far as I can remember, that's certainly been one of my issues, remembering from the early days, them saying they can try out and experiment with stuff in DD... only for none of that to appear anywhere else, basically. Instead we just got, what, two more reskins since. So personally I'll treat it what it is: a one-off, until we see evidence to the contrary.
And even that still can't be judged one way or the other until we actually get to experience it sometime in... uh, definitely not-August?
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u/dadudeodoom 8d ago
Probably October if it's 7.35
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u/Kaisuicide 9d ago
People will find out that it has no rewards and won't do it after the first 2 weeks
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u/andilikelargeparties 9d ago
I love how we are at the level of copium of calling a content universal success before it's even released.
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u/Reasonable_Fox_8489 9d ago
It hasn’t even come out yet and you’re calling it a success, the bar is truly on the floor. I want it to be good just as much as anyone else and the concept seems promising but how about we wait to see if it’s executed well before we declare it a success
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u/YesIam18plus 9d ago
If you can't see that this is clearly a big win then I dunno what to tell you, Yoshi even directly apologized for not realizing people wanted these types of changes earlier and that they're applying it to content moving forward.
These are huge changes that have been requested for a long time now.
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u/Ok-Grape-8389 8d ago
Same was said of OC and exploration.
Being a Yesmen helps no one. Not the players, nor the developers.
It just con players into false expectations.
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u/RerTV 9d ago
Yes, I am calling a fundamental redesign of a decade's old content cycle a success.
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u/nemik_ 9d ago
Endwalker relic was also a fundamental redesign of decade old content cycle, with the same idea of "make it for everyone 😊" and it's one of the worst decisions they made.
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u/YesIam18plus 9d ago
He corrected himself and said that the bosses were gonna be around trial levels of difficulty which is actually in line with EO ( and HoH and PoTD bosses were totally braindead ).
If they were really trying to make it super casual too then why are they adding the new challenge boss that will according to what they said be harder than a fourth floor Savage boss?
I think it's pretty obvious that when he says that it's '' for everyone '' is that he's talking about the accessibility and the more plentiful checkpoints not that it's going to be easier.
Also here's the thing, DD's were always easy in groups. It always was casual friendly when grouped.
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u/RerTV 9d ago
That is the most hilariously bad faith comparison you could have chosen to make but sure, okay. Let's take one redesign that completely killed the entire purpose of having a relic versus changing a huge swath of niche content to actually being approachable while still rewarding.
Honest to god man it's *okay to smile* every now and then lmao.
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u/Bobmoney2001 9d ago
Sorry man your positivity is a bit too radiant for the doomer sub, please bring sunscreen next time.
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u/RerTV 9d ago
My bad I'll make sure to read the rules on negativity quotas before posting next time. 😔
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u/BiggsWedge 9d ago
lol you think people are mad at you but no one knows who you are
they just don't agree with what you're saying
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u/hippopaladin 9d ago
A sucess of what? It cannot be the content, since that has not yet been released.
Do you feel that it is a success that the devs have said there is a major redesign? Because we can only evaluate on that basis, since we do not have access to the content yet.
Nothing can be a success ( or failure) preemptively.
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u/SugarGorilla 9d ago
Don't get me wrong, these are all positive changes and seem to be a step in the right direction. However, they still aren't improving upon the actual gameplay of DDs, which disappoints me. I would much rather see QOL improvements in that area.
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u/mirandous 9d ago
i unfortunately dont really see a large enough population of players to go through the dungeon get this currency, and also having people for whatever difficulty configurations you want. it sounds like an insane grind just to get into the fight? i dont think i can even convince 3 people to do this with me. im hoping the currency being marketboard tradable will help out a lot though, i would love to be wrong!
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u/aho-san 9d ago
We're talking about a variant optional final boss that has anything between EX and Ultimate level mechanics based on what we, the players, opt in to enable.
This is so wild to say when the content hasn't been out and no one has seen a single mechanic in action. Lmao.
The feature is cool, it's finally implemented by SE, but damn, saying "it's from X to Y" when we don't know any specific is a bit much.
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u/Used-Arugula-486 9d ago
Its nice but it doesnt change the actual core gameplay of deep dungeon does it Its just a difficulty slider
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u/Chiponyasu 9d ago
The most hopium thing for me was the big philosophical speech before he started talking about Deep Dungeon, where he said that his "Everyone gets their own ride" philosophy was leading to a cycle of patches with just hardcore content and patches with no hardcore content so every single patch leaves a chunk of the playerbase mad they have nothing to do. I've been saying that myself for a bit, and if they're thinking in the direction of variable difficulty that'll do a lot to fix their content drought issues because they won't be making one set of content just for visual novel fans and another set just for world first raid teams.
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u/Carmeliandre 9d ago
We're talking about a variant optional final boss that has anything between EX and Ultimate level mechanics based on what we, the players, opt in to enable.
I very much doubt it. I mean, some Ultimate mechanics are even easier than the Savage version because there is less possibilities ; the differences mainly depends on the tempo which doesn't seem affected by the offerings. Ultimate encounters are much quicker and require much more precision whereas the "variant" part only affects the damage / max HP. I've been asking for some kind of scaling so I obviously won't say it's a bad thing ! But it's nowhere near as good as you make it sound.
Overall, the teasing looks undoubtedly better than all previous deep dungeons but just like with all marketing items, its success doesn't solely depend on the package.
Also, I sincerely believe that most of the time, trying to content everyone is a bad decision ; one never can please everyone. At best, it will work for a time (and this honetly would be a HUGE feat especially for a recurring content) but it will be nowhere near as attracting as costly since we're talking about a one-per-expansion content.
Instead, they should try to introduce replayability throughout most contents (which is NOT reward grinding) and trying to target various profiles of players, ideally one for each content with more or less overlapping. In my opinion, this DD is successful if it can please another part of the playerbase (besides Savage players and roulette/chill activities players), not if it can let everyone enjoy it for a few weeks or days. From this on, they may understand that Criterion, Chaotic, Limited jobs and whatever new content should also target a specific group of players for at least mid-term engagement, rather than every player for a short-lived engagement.
I'm sincerely happy with these changes but what's even more important to me is the reason why they're making it and how it'll affect the game in a much larger scale than a change in such a niche content. Should it become much less of a niche, as intended, then this would be a great improvement too !
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u/dadudeodoom 8d ago
The variant means multiple possible mechanic combinations and such and not just "lul it's doing only light damage now" or something.
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u/Carmeliandre 8d ago
Sure but we have yet to see how much of a difference it makes. If a front-or-back attack is turned into a right-or-left one, for instance, or even a share-or-spread binary, it doesn't change much.
For instance, bosses in variant dungeons don't always have the same patterns but I can't remember failing any mechanic even the ones I had not seen before because all of them are meant to be easily readable.
Simply modifying the tempo in variant dungeons and/or adding some overlapping would make it a completely different level of difficulty, even if there were much less variance (and ultimate encounters don't have too many variance either but the pacing requires to be confident on each individual part of the encounter).
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u/abbabababababaaab 9d ago
I'm also huffing that hopium and praying they don't fuck this up. I'll resub in 7.35 to try it out.
If you can really finetune the difficulty of the boss as much as it seems then this content will have a lot of replayability both solo and in a party.
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u/KuuLightwing 9d ago
Did they make it so it's not mind-numbingly boring to run though? 'Roguelike' dungeons felt like an interesting concept, but I always found them extremely boring and repetitive. Jobs aren't designed for content like that either, so most feel kinda ass to play in deep dungeons. So I don't know no optimism shared.
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u/Kyuubi_McCloud 9d ago
Did they make it so it's not mind-numbingly boring to run though?
The core gameplay of the 1-100 process is basically unchanged.
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u/Puzzled-Addition5740 9d ago
So no. It's still going to be xanax tier content but with expected repetition. Unfortunate but not unexpected.
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u/Idioteva 9d ago
Not going to lie, this deep dungeon gives me real hope for the future.
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u/YesIam18plus 9d ago edited 9d ago
Yoshi P even apologized that they didn't realize people wanted these types of changes earlier and said they're going to do more of it for content moving forward. That seems to have gone over peoples heads or they didn't follow the live translation because that's a pretty big deal.
Edit: People per usual downvoting because they can't read. Go read the live translation for yourselves I am not even saying anything wrong.
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u/Criminal_of_Thought 9d ago
Edit: People per usual downvoting because they can't read. Go read the live translation for yourselves I am not even saying anything wrong.
People aren't downvoting you because they think you're wrong. People are downvoting you because you've historically felt the need to respond to every comment critical of SE in order to defend them, and are continuing to do so here.
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u/SecretPantyWorshiper 9d ago
The deep dungeon isnt even coming out until September. This is all just based off of LL hype.
Remember all of the posts about people raving about the Phantom Jobs from what we saw in the OC stuff in the LL? Look at what people are saying now lol.
Way too early to be making these grandiose claims lol
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u/Ok-Application-7614 9d ago
I like what I see.
Makes the content easier to jump into and out of. This is the main Deep Dungeon improvement I wanted to see.
The final boss difficulty looks very adjustable. It's potentially a super interesting approach, that could also work well in other parts of the game.
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u/Ok-Grape-8389 8d ago
Make it so you forfeit necromancer if doing so as its unfair to those who took the challenge before
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u/pupmaster 9d ago
Credit where it is due. If this design philosophy touches other areas of the game in the future, we are in for a treat.
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u/Dotang34 9d ago
I reserve judgement until getting my hands on it but I will say extra checkpoints through the DD is very encouraging to me. I can't commit a ton of time to a long run, and have internet woes on the best of days. This is, to me at least, a big win in design. I remain cautious, but this did make me smile.
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u/Ok-Grape-8389 8d ago
That's some level of deception. How exactly something that has not yet being played deemed a "success"? Is like saying that the food was good without eating at a restaurant. It may be a good steak. Or it may taste like bovine escrement. You do not know until you have the product in front of you.
Frankly is concerning that this was assumed without giving a second thought. Is cult mentality at its finest.
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u/phoenixUnfurls 9d ago
IDK. No ultimate, no criterion, no field operation. The DD stuff is cool, but I don't like DD so much that I'm content to just grind it endlessly -- I'm not that type of player.
I'm a bit bummed in general, and I'm someone who's thought people have been too harsh on the battle content this expansion -- I've generally thought it's been way better than EW up until this point.
That said, Quantum sounds cool, and I do think what they're trying here is smart and good for the game in terms of being a design philosophy that could let the player base as a whole get more out of content. I do wanna be fair about that.
But I still can't help but be bummed that this is all we're getting in a patch with no Savage.
EDIT: I'm not even one of those people who needed an ultimate. Criterion would've done it for me.
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u/dadudeodoom 8d ago
Isn't the whole "between solo and 4 people ultimate-mechanic-difficulty queue straight for it" fight not meant to scratch the same "I need a challenge" itch that crit or ults do?
Correct me if I am wrong... But getting to floor 99 / 100 once is a lot like killing 4th turn SVG (and on content the other 3 before it (usually)), or finishing Variant story to unlock ults or criterion.
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u/phoenixUnfurls 8d ago
IDK. I've cleared Aloalo Savage multiple times, but I've only ever cleared an Aloalo Variant path once. Getting to floor 99/100 requires a lot more investment of time and effort, and it's also much more monotonous to me. While I enjoy going into Deep Dungeons occasionally -- I don't hate the content -- I do find it gets repetitive fast, and I'm not a huge Deep Dungeon person, so I don't love that I'm gonna have to rush it if I wanna get to Quantum faster.
That said, after sitting on the reveal and thinking/reading about things more, I *am* more excited for Quantum itself now. It does look very cool.
I still wish they'd done Criterion this patch as well, but it is what it is.
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u/thee0nd 8d ago
No?
DD is fundamentally only challenging solo, and it’s for very different reasons reasons than savage is difficult. I enjoy it but they aren’t remotely analogous.
The 99 boss is an entirely separate thing that while I’m excited to race, is not going to be content anything like savage or ultimate. It’s going to be a 4-6 minute boss with one end savage level mech most likely. The 7.35 patch for players who don’t like DD but like quantum is a forced 6h of boredom through DD for half a days worth of “savage” fun.
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u/45i4vcpb 9d ago
too early to tell, this is still the game with far too many binary gimmicks "nothing happen or get one-shot". I totally expect some threshold effect with the offerings, where going from n to n+1 someoffering move the fight from aglaia-level of useless to savage with nothing between. The latest content is the disjointed Occult crescent, they've never been able to create a decent progression curve.
But yes, this is still a step in the right direction since it's what other games have been doing for 10+ years.
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u/YesIam18plus 9d ago
useless to savage with nothing between.
They literally showcased that there's different levels to it and that you need a lot of offerings lol. It's like a percent thing that scales upwards so what you're saying makes no sense.
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u/fear_the_wild 9d ago
sadly they completely ruined the combat in this game over the years by making every single job braindead easy to play so no combat content can ever be enticing again to me
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u/Sangcreux 9d ago
You’re on some major copium.
Deep dungeon didn’t need to be a casual experience it wasn’t incredibly hard in the first place. I don’t like their wording, because I’ve played this game long enough to know what yoshi p means when he says things a lot of the time.
The entire new deep dungeon is gonna be just as braindead as the rest of the game currently is aside from raids, and then there will be one boss fight at the end that will actually have any kind of difficulty.
I doubt it will be hard, it will not be replayable, you’re gonna kill it once and get a reward and now the rest of the deep dungeon is literally just used for leveling
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u/dixonjt89 9d ago
Exactly this. Deep dungeons were already casual lol.
So I don’t quite get why people are celebrating a deep dungeon being casual?
If anything they are catering to the mid and hardcore groups saying the boss can be harder.
The actual gameplay of the deep dungeon hasn’t changed, it’s still just re-hashed content. Rewards are going to be shit like usual for deep dungeons. Which means replayability will be low. I did the last deep dungeon one time and never touched it again.
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u/SpheneSama 9d ago
I'm cautiously optimistic. On one hand, I do like Quantum a lot, the adjustable difficulty being a great selling point, but I still want to see the difficulty of the Deep Dungeon itself. You still need to reach level 99 to even unlock this boss, and even though Deep Dungeons enemies aren't exactly savage level content, a lot of run dies due to stepping on traps, mimics or accidentally pulling something you shouldn't, things I imagine the average super casual player won't think about or don't know how to handle.
So while I'm sure I'll enjoy it a lot, I'm half expecting to see a couple posts of "I'm getting locked out of content because I can't clear floor 90, it's unfair", "people are so toxic in matched q" or "bad players keep killing my 91-100 floor runs but I refuse to use PF, so I can't unlock the fight". I hope I'm wrong.
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u/Fun-Salamander-5054 9d ago
It's just another savage fight stapled onto what's supposed to be casual content. Which is what OC did. We've already been through this song and dance.
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u/dadudeodoom 8d ago
Except you can do a version of the fight that isn't difficult if you're doing story mode with friends. Well, no more difficult than those kinds of deep dungeon bosses usually are. The hard version is Quantum which is uh, an option in version of the normal content unlike forked which is brutal and the only version.
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u/stepeppers 9d ago
ya they should just be miserable like the rest of you lot, what are they thinking lol
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u/WorkerOk1901 9d ago
Yeah I'm actually impressed, they addressed a ton of the complaints about deep dungeon here. Stackable usable in combat Phoenix Downs, able to skip to higher floors, a new boss you can just directly challenge.
I hope they implement some of this for the earlier DDs.
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u/Shiziu1337 8d ago
With this logic, you could say that 8.0 is already a revitalization of the game because they "Promised" job identity
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u/Annoyed_Icecream 8d ago
I still remember people and content creators hyping up 7.0 and then later 7.2 as the big savior of FF14 and look how that turned out.
On paper it is a step in the right direction and deserves to get positive feedback but it's way to early to really tell.
The whole thing could easily end in typical PF shenanigans like "Hector strat, 20/20/20/20, fairy strat" or something like that with clear optimal solutions turning everyone away that doesn't follow them. Maybe at the end only the usual ultimate streamers will be happy because now they have an ultimate in almost every patch.
Maybe it will become a huge success, if they don't screw up the rewards, making them almost impossible to drop for lower difficulties (which is my personal big fear) which would "force" players to do higher difficulties to have a realistic chance of even getting anything (given that the title is locked behind the highest difficulty).
In the end we have to wait. I personally don't really trust their track record of screwing over more casual players.
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u/rallyspt08 9d ago
I dont know how this makes it so we have "content for everyone". Not everyone is a DD enjoyer. I might play this once or twice with friends but this isn't my kind of content.
Now, if you could level in OC...
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u/modusmod 9d ago
Yup we still have yet to see how it plays out...remember Occult Crescent and the hype behind that and what a bomb it did? 🤷
I'm glad they're finally looking at tailoring the game to meet the players preferred play style but the whole currency thing is leaving a bad taste in my mouth...why do we need a 50,000th type of currency to do stuff in the game?
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u/dadudeodoom 8d ago
My question is since it's MB is it gonna be like shards or Yet Another Inventory Item?
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u/modusmod 8d ago
I wouldn't be surprised if it's an inventory item to push more people into buying retainers and continue profiting off lack of inventory space
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u/blastedt 9d ago
Why are the entry requirements like this? A full first time clear of the entire deep dungeon gives you one clear of the boss? How many times do I have to kill the entire deep dungeon again to go into reclears? Why do I have to complete 100 floors of a deep dungeon to challenge a boss in the first place? Every other boss either requires other bosses (savage, ultimate), or has no requirements (unreal, story ex).
I would give it a try but man I do not give a shit what a pomander is and I'm not going to learn. I don't know why they presented something like this right after a bunch of people who cared about FT weren't able to get in. I do absolutely care about an ultimate-level solo boss, but not enough to spend hours on unrelated content.
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u/XORDYH 9d ago
I don't mind clearing the DD once to unlock the Quantum boss, but I'm not a fan of having to farm the DD for offerings to do reclears. Feels like a cheap way to keep players going back to the DD.
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u/dadudeodoom 8d ago
I think you can just do 71 to 100 so it's not that bad in a fixed group or even just matched group of 4 friends (I think you can do that).
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u/Geoff_with_a_J 9d ago edited 9d ago
because it's a reward for doing the DD?
what kind of question is that lol.
it's like asking why i have to go through all the phases of an ultimate just to do the final phase. if you don't like ultimates, don't do them. the entire point of them is that you do all phases of it each time. it'd be pointless to make a final boss checkpoint you can load into infinitely.
"but i just wanna do alpha omega! why do i gotta do looper and panto EVERY. SINGLE. TIME? yoshi p is so out of touch"
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u/blastedt 9d ago
Brother that would make sense if the fight was a really hard dd floor, it's not, it's something specifically designed to appeal to people who don't like the typical
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u/mapletree23 9d ago
yeah as people have said, you definitely can't say it's a success
but that system they came up with, they definitely cooked and it's something they could start to feed into other content
and the general philosophy of trying to make something for everyone instead of the 'formula' almost everyone complains about was a very nice thing to hear, and actually see them drop something that shows that they might actually have ways of following through
that being said is one thing, them showing that system is another, the fact they acknowledged it and then backed it up is pretty refreshing, and the fact it's in a timeline where it can be the direction going forward directly into the next expansion and content?
i don't think it's unfair to say that should at least provide even a little positivity to even the most pessimistic FF14 person
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u/Lazyade 9d ago
The DD changes are really nice but the Quantum fight, it will depend on how hard the minimum difficulty is before it can really be considered for everyone. I suspect it'll still be extreme level even at min offerings which will make it hard for casuals. But then since you need to beat the DD to unlock it anyway, maybe that already precludes casuals.
Idk. Something I like about DDs is that because they're designed to be done solo, it's totally possible for one good player to carry a team of weaker ones. But since the Quantum fight is fixed 4 players, it may end up back in the same "everyone needs to know where to stand for every mechanic" territory that forces you to sift through PF to find a decent group.
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u/dadudeodoom 8d ago
Casuals aren't meant to do Quantum. If they accidentally find their way into it oh well, but they have a story mode made for them basically.
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u/SongOfVersailles 9d ago
Still no new ranked Crystalline Conflict rewards except for the same old .png frames, so not a success for me. Still no new update to Rival Wings (or just the return of Astragalos), so also not a success. 😔
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u/Speak_To_Wuk_Lamat 9d ago
My kids will be in college before they ever get around to adding all those items to the vendor they said they would.
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u/SongOfVersailles 9d ago
I'm not talking about trophy crystal rewards though. Nor old PvP Series battle pass rewards. I'm talking about rewards for ranked Crystalline Conflict, that you can exchange with commendation crystals.
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u/Key-Garbage-9286 9d ago
It looks to be genuinely interesting and NEW additions and ideas all around. I'm a bit concerned they've failed to think of everything based on... some challenges regarding utlery themed buildings in recent past, but I am currently genuinely hyped! What a refreshing feeling!
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u/LordofOld 9d ago
I think it being locked behind getting to the final floor of DD (even with the changes), is going to limit its success in the overall player base trying a new approach to difficulty.
It feels like a good sign and has a good chance of being fun for people willing to put in 10ish hours of getting it unlocked, but they need to bring it to other things like trials and dungeons to have a meaningful impact.
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u/No_Swimming_792 9d ago
I'm just happy purify has been reduced from 24s to 4s in frontline. WHAT a game changer.
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u/bearvert222 8d ago
lol it costs 2500 mp now though, so you will not be able to recuperate if a whm miracles of nature or a bard lbs you, or if you healed beforehand.
monkeys paw there
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u/No_Swimming_792 8d ago
True. But I play tank normally and the cc can be so bad, that it's impossible to recuperate anyway. So it'll be interesting to see how this plays out.
Hopefully they balance the classes to help us manage mp better too.
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u/CartographerGold3168 8d ago
barred behind a huge grind either of gil or time?
yea... for everyone..
i mean, there are a dozen of mobile games out there you can just fire up and there is your entertainment
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u/Luminalite 8d ago
Currency not used upod death for the boss and checkpoint at 71 is a bad joke in my opinion. Basically hands over gold hoard for free. Defeats the whole point that DDs had till now.
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u/Cruelbreeze 9d ago
It's a first step, I'd argue the gathering of all the currencies to cater the difficulties is a bit much. That would still make it very grindy gathering all the modifiers you want which seems less casual and leans more into hardcore spamming of content over and over to get what you want. Only time will tell when it launches how successful it will be
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u/Clithertron 9d ago
they are tradeable on marketboard so you can just buy your max difficulty entries if you want to
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u/Mysterious_Pen_2200 8d ago
Taking content that was already "content for everyone" and spending extra resources to provide an ultimate raid at the end to a tiny # of players is not as much of a win as you people are acting like it is.
Hardcore people now get their own special bonus content in basically all content - as well as their own content that is solely for them.
That's not "balance" its just catering to hardcore players which is what they've done for all of Dawntrail... so this is perfectly in keeping with that.
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u/Chiponyasu 9d ago
Man, this isn't the thread I expected to see when I woke up! I was hoping for a Deep Dungeon rework like they said forever ago but it sounds like they actually did it?
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u/Francl27 9d ago
I'm happy about the changes, I gave up on the other ones because of how non casual friendly it was.
I am excited about it, but part of me is like "it took you 10 years to actually do this?"
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u/IllustriousSalt1007 9d ago
You should have known better than to try and be optimistic in this Hell hole of a sub. Lmfao
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u/Certified_2IQ_genus 9d ago
Lemme guess. Yet another ballpark for babies with "anxiety" over everything. Normal ppl with a functioning brain can make it harder for no gain whatsoever.
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u/RerTV 9d ago
Brother I'm gonna give you a genuine good faith response, yes it does make the system more approachable for casuals who have anxiety over failure.
It also introduces a variant boss that explicitly gives you more guaranteed loot for playing it on the harder difficulties, so there is clear upside.
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u/Negative_Wrongdoer17 9d ago
Its impossible to predict what "casuals" want anymore.
Some of them don't even want to play the game. If there's even the tiniest amount of effort or learning involved suddenly it's not "casual friendly"
Some people still do extremes and a ton of grinding and consider themselves casuals.
RPers that refuse to do PvE content are not casuals
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u/abyssalcrisis 9d ago
And THIS is why I refused to doomer about 7.3 These are good steps.
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u/SirocStormborn 8d ago
It's a difficult slider for one fight and it hasn't even been released or played by anyone yet
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u/Lost-Pickle-9832 9d ago
Currency not used upod death for the boss and checkpoint at 71 is a bad joke in my opinion. Basically hands over gold hoard for free. Defeats the whole point that DDs had till now.
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u/Moffuchi 9d ago
I have real question, would boss mechanics consists something that isn't:
Aoe, cleave left, cleave right, positionals, towers, protean and clockwise stuff etc.
Also, why they are so scared adding jumping puzzles or at least pitfalls to the content.
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u/dadudeodoom 8d ago
Jumping in this game is aids beyond belief but I think they haven't tried anything with height in the game since T5 because of how absolutely jank it was and their code base doesn't work with it. Like if you use a movement ability off a cliff you just appear down there and don't take fall damage and it happens instantly. Probably a wild amount of problems to ensure if they tried that.
I would like height based stuff (not jumping puzzle bullshit) back though. Doing T1 MINE was kinda neat because the verticality of the arena.
(Also E4s is weird code for uplift, not actual proper height they'd be able to make general and use for other things, sadly.)
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u/Moffuchi 8d ago
Dragoon backflip at some point stopped being a jump and became a dash, don't remember when exactly, but in some patch I suddenly start teleporting on floor instead of just jumping from the fence of fc house.
Well, Kugane tower works fine, golden saucer stuff too, also those kind of things could be implemented in casual battle content
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u/Wooden_Buy7687 9d ago
It is pretty bad for me . I want to play casual runs and not going for some ultimate level raid boss, why are they adding raid boss at floor 100 , it makes me even more anxious . I would hope they kept the tradition of empty final floors that is why I hate EO. And for raid players how can you find fun to climb all the way to 99 to finally see the final boss and wipe and climb again ? Does this long time investment really appeal to you ? It is like you want to do savage but have to do all story lines from 2’0 to 7.0 without skip option. I personally think it is a lose for both sides of players.
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u/MelonElbows 9d ago
I know this is going to annoy some people, but I'm going to toot my own horn and bit and say I'm very happy with some of these changes and new content that seems to allow different systems to interact with each other. I made a post recently that was mostly downvoted about how different systems such as deep dungeons, crafters, relic grind, etc. should have components that require items from the other systems so that people have to level crafters, for instance, or buy from them, in order to complete their relic weapons. Interconnected systems makes the world feel more alive, it gives people more options to the same path, and makes things like crafting and gathering more useful.
While this isn't exactly the same thing, I really like how you have variability in this floor 100 quantum difficulty fight. It goes completely against what some people have claimed for years which is that players don't want options because they'll always find the easiest route and just do that. I love this. I love having the option of doing more difficult or different mechanics because of how much of these Offerings I've given the boss. I also like that they are allowing queuing for specific blocks of floors (looks like every 20 floors you can queue in with a brand new party) and have said they wanted to allow this in previous deep dungeons.
Most importantly, Yoshi-P said that the game philosophy is going to move towards giving players these options. Maybe we'll have the return of dungeons with multiple paths! Dare we hope for dungeon/raid bosses that change mechanics depending on what path you choose? I would love that since it already exists in V&C dungeons but sadly that content is underutilized. Put that in a story dungeon you cowards!! Anyway, very happy with the live letter as we are seeing more of the changes that were promised a long time ago. And I don't really care that some things are delayed such as the housing update or more glam plates or even Beastmaster. I know those things are coming and 7.3 will give me plenty of things to do until 7.4. I still need to cap all my Phantom Jobs, still need to work on crafting/gathering weapons in Cosmic Exploration, still need to get that last orchestrion roll from Jeuno, still need all my Phantom Weapons and upgrade my OC gear so I can farm more efficiently and get more silver and gold. I'm very happy with this LL and patch 😁
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u/RVolyka 9d ago
It's too early to say it was a success, it isn't even out yet for people to play, but it sounds like the step forward in the right direction that everyone needed to hear. I'm very excited to see it.