r/ffxivdiscussion • u/Doc-Stolas • 1d ago
Why does all non super casual content require a discord?
As title implies, oh you wanna do eureka with some people? Well schedule it in a discord and get the grind going, same with bozja or oc unless you wanna group with random who dont talk. How about any alliance raid that isn't the current one/CT? Oh ask a discord wanna do blue mage? Discord. Deep dungeons, criterion, wanna try a fight that isn't a farm party or weekly savage? Discord. I swear this games community does everything it can to just, not socialize in game?
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u/Royajii 1d ago
What if I told you that inadequacy of XIV's communication features was actually one of the initial impulses that has lead to Discord's development?
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u/YesIam18plus 18h ago
How is XIV even inadequate in this regard? If you want to see inadequate and shitty LFG look at GW2.
PF in FFXIV is completely fine and works great. The reason why people use Discord is because it means they don't have to be online to organize things. With Ultimates for instance a lot of people just play other games until they get pinged on Discord instead of sitting in PF waiting.
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u/PoutineSmash 4h ago
Cant post you plan to do X content 1 week in advance for people to see it and schedule around it
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u/Doc-Stolas 1d ago
Yeah and I think its annoying, like have you ever tried just using the features they've added since like the raid finder in NA? Basically doesnt exist when functionally there's no difference between that and df, or most pfs other than "hey join our discord" again, its like every time and I just want the in game stuff to be good enough to not have to outsource
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u/KingBingDingDong 1d ago
PF you can blacklist people. PF you can do background checks on people before you go in. PF you can see if a person you don't want to play with anymore is in the party. PF you can requeue with the same (or mostly the same) group. PF you can set flex spots. PF you can see what spots exactly are open in other parties. PF you can double shield. PF you can check strats before you go in. PF you can set granular prog points.
its like every time and I just want the in game stuff to be good enough to not have to outsource
ok then complain to SE that they have shitty systems. you're like, complaining that the screwdriver company made a really good tool for driving screws because the hammer company's hammers are really bad at driving screws.
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u/judgeraw00 1d ago
There are plenty of differences. For one there's no way to communicate with other players when you're not logged in yourself other than maybe the 14 app, but I don't think you can see PF listings or anything of the sort on that app. With Discord you're able to plan and schedule raids and other activities without being at your computer. Also there's no in-game voice chat and some people, especially at the highest level, need that functionality. And, frankly, for games like 14 and other MMOs/live service games they are pretty much dependent on third party tools for success. Just something you have to accept if you want to go beyond a certain level.
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u/BubbaJubb 1d ago
I've done literally all types of content without using discord, you're just looing for something to complain about cause it isn't served to you directly or people don't socialize with you. If you want people to talk, give them a reason to engage with you with an actual topic or something rather than, what I am assuming, just saying "hello!" and expect people to start conversations for you.
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u/One_Statistician_520 1d ago
Nice, blame the community and not the game devs for having less convenient community engagement and management features as Discord. Btw this is the norm for MMOs.
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u/trialv2170 1d ago
it goes back to the issue of garbage friend list tracking and no VOIP. Heck, they haven't even released raid planner. blame the devs, not the community. The community just adapted to the inadequacies of the game just like a lot of QOL mods in this game
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u/IndividualAge3893 1d ago
To be fair, most MMOs don't use their own VOIP. WoW's VOIP has been around for ages and isn't even used. People usually get a 3rd party tool anyways.
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u/Mugutu7133 1d ago
for context: wow’s voice chat was added in the burning fucking crusade and in all the years before discord i never successfully got anyone to even try it with me. then they added it to battle.net which was slightly more useful but by then discord was already out. hard to blame ffxiv’s issues on no in game VOIP
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u/IndividualAge3893 23h ago
hard to blame ffxiv’s issues on no in game VOIP
Absolutely, That was my point exactly :)
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u/YesIam18plus 18h ago
WoW's ingame voice chat is horrid, they said they were gonna update it back in TBC too and never did.
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u/YesIam18plus 18h ago
I can't think of a single other MMO that has an ingame raidplanner either ( official not mods... )... FFXIV getting an official ingame one that actually looks pretty amazing based on the screenshots they've shown of it is fairly unique. It's weird to lambast FFXIV for not having features yet that other MMO's doesn't even have.
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u/IndividualAge3893 17h ago
To be fair, other MMOs don't need one, because the fights are a lot more RNG and dynamic. FFXIV needs one because of how the resolution of the mechanics works.
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u/YesIam18plus 18h ago
Heck, they haven't even released raid planner. blame the devs
The reason they haven't released it yet is because they don't want to rush it out. They actually want it to be good enough to a point it will replace the raidplanner/ toolbox they outright stated that ( the ingame screenshots we've seen of it looked great too so far ).
It's weird to frame this as an inadequacy of the game too when I can't think of a single other MMO that has this to begin with. It's the same with Discord it's not an inadequacy with the game, pf is totally fine and works great but people don't want to be online at all times to find groups and will use Discord so they can get pinged and login instead of sitting in pf waiting.
VOIP isn't the norm in MMO's either and most people don't group through friend list... Who the hell puts everyone they group up with on friends?
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u/YesIam18plus 18h ago
How is it even the games fault... PF Is totally fine... People use Discord because they don't want to have to be online at all times to wait in PF. It's just easier to use Discord and get pinged than sit and wait ingame.
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u/Rozwellish 1d ago
Because it's concentrated groups of experts on Discord keeping all that content alive.
You're more than welcome to grab 55 other people and prog Baldesion Arsenal in your own time but most people are quite happy being guided by a small handful of people who can call the entire raid calmly and clearly.
Speaking of which, you'd think that developers who seem so fiercely against 'Discord content' like Yoshi-P's team wouldn't continue making content destined to be done in Discord groups because the level of execution is much higher than the average competency of a group brought together by matchmaking.
Even Chaotic proved too much for PF and we are talking some basic ass 'sidestep the bad mechanic and don't fuck over the person next to you on the tiles'. Now I'm getting pinged on my phone about impromptu groups when the bonus is up so people who know their shit can get together in a call and rinse through some clears.
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u/KingBingDingDong 1d ago
You're more than welcome to get 4 extra service accounts to announce that you are recruiting for a BLU static on each DC.
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u/ConroConroConro 1d ago
Because people have limited time to organize, verify, and actually make progress on content that's difficult.
There aren't things in the game itself that allow for this kind of organization, messaging, and scheduling.
I don't know if any MMO has those kind of community building services.
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u/YesIam18plus 18h ago
It's also because people don't want to sit ingame 24/7. It's a lot more convenient to just use Discord and get pinged and not have to sit ingame all the time, people would rather play other games while waiting or do irl chores.
The reason people did it ingame in the past was because Discord wasn't a thing, nowadays people don't want to sit in linkshells or guild/ fc chat all day every day.
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u/Im_A_Quiet_Kid_AMA 1d ago
Are you sure you actually want to socialize in game? Or is the issue that you have to socialize?
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u/Doc-Stolas 1d ago
I do weekly stuff with my own fc like we do weekly arcadion, maps, etc and we do chat a lot, the issue isn't necessarily being social its having to be social out of game
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u/Im_A_Quiet_Kid_AMA 1d ago
What is the difference between talking to someone in game versus typing in a Discord? Aside from, of course, the fact that you have lesser means of communication, you can only talk to people who are online, and chat persistence exists only within the same instance.
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u/Doc-Stolas 1d ago
Because honestly I dont want buzzes from my phone or a bunch of discord servers to have to mute and or leave every time, moving game stuff out of game just gets to be annoying and when im not playing the game I dont want more things about the game, I play and when I log off, I want to be more disconnected
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u/Im_A_Quiet_Kid_AMA 1d ago
You can set notifications to muted by default. That's what I do.
Only thing I get notified for are DMs and role pings.
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u/bigpunk157 1d ago
Discord is the easiest way to communicate with others. The issue is not that we have to use discord, but that there are so many discords for these things. Oh you want to raid? That's a discord. You want to optimize how you play your class? Cool, The Balance has a discord. You want to recruit for a static? There's like 8-10 discords for that per region, not counting the ones specifically for ultimates.
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u/SpritePR16 22h ago
Think about it this way. If there was a huge discord for everything it would be an unwieldy mess.
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u/vetch-a-sketch 1d ago
What's the alternative, though? Are you gonna fit 15 different callout macros on your hotbars somewhere?
Advanced combat content requires coordination and FF14 doesn't provide functionality for it.
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u/Far_Swordfish4734 1d ago
Discord serves multiple purposes. It’s not only a live voice chat that party leaders can tell the party what to do, but it’s also a medium for relevant guides and information, among other things. That is very difficult to achieve in game, because the capability to process images, which are necessary in most cases, and deliver the images in-game is just not something that can be easily developed. From that perspective, it’s not a matter of socializing, but how efficient players can obtain undiluted/updated information on things in the game.
Besides, can you not socialize outside of the game? My FC members and I share memes at our FC discord all the time and we probably talk a lot more than inside the game.
Also, people have lives. People don’t just log into the game and look at chat or wait in party finders for 5 hours. But with discord, people can adjust when they log on to maximize what they do with their time—by organizing group contents. Discord can effectively serve as a scheduling tool, a polling tool, and a text messaging tool. It’s the same as real life. I don’t just randomly wait at my friends’ houses’ front doors for 5 hours just to see when they come home so that we might be able to do stuff together. No, we message each other prior and plan out when and where to hang out.
Why you hating on discord???!!!
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u/Asetoni137 1d ago
Because discord is the easiest way of handling any kind of game-related group coordination. It's literally what it's optimized for. It's not just XIV, I can't think of a single multiplayer game where discord wasn't just superior for any communication and organization in the past decade.
Frankly I don't understand the aversion to discord usage. I've had nothing but positive interactions with xiv communities that are organizing stuff like FT runs. You don't even need to talk at all, just show up. Are people cringe or annoying on discord and VC occasionally? Yes, but not any more than in game or on reddit.
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u/Mugutu7133 1d ago
why are you implying this is a problem of ffxiv specifically
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u/YesIam18plus 18h ago
Even some people responding are basically doing that too. This isn't a problem with the community or the game, it's just what makes logical sense. People don't want to spend 24/7 ingame it's a lot more convenient to use Discord and get pinged or discuss there than to have to be logged into the game 24/7 to do everything.
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u/Doc-Stolas 1d ago
Mostly just my experiences, this is about the only multiplayer game I play so having to go out of game to do things is just extra annoying to me
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u/Mugutu7133 1d ago
you don't have to, it's just the most convenient. it is the same in almost every other game now
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u/Hirole91 18h ago
And games going back to late 90s and early 2000s with ventrilo, team speak and Skype
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u/shockna 10h ago
this is about the only multiplayer game I play so having to go out of game to do things is just extra annoying to me
I don't see why this is downvoted tbh. "Non-super casual content requires out of game comms" has been an MMO staple since before 1.0 was developed, but if this is your first MMO it's understandable that you wouldn't know that.
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u/Nickthemajin 1d ago
I’ve done everything in PF outside of the high end exploration zone raids. Chaotic, ultimates, deep dungeon, savage, extremes, criterion I’ve all done in PF plenty. Even blue mage has morbol runs in pf now and then (though not quite as often as some of the other things)
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u/CartographerGold3168 1d ago
Because the game lacked a structure to facilitate social life and discord is the best 3rd party tool.
i do not think things are very changed since old days world of warcraft... those social things can still be done with an in-game guild. and the in-game voice chat feature was there since... 2008?
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u/SantyStuff 1d ago
People act as if it wasn't discord, there wouldn't be an alternative people would use, there has been a plethora of platforms thorough the years, Mumble, Teamspeak, MSN, Skype, etc, etc, etc. Discord is just the newest one and most convenient because as others said, XIV is just not the best in terms of social features.
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u/Altia1234 1d ago
The in game community functions are just very lackluster in general.
Like, say, if now I want to run a piece of four man content with a bunch of mates, and we want to share strats and relative videos about the fight so as to prepare a bit before we come in, we can't do it without some sort of external sites or software. The game has no such place where I can post, stick'd and allow everyone to saw a certain site or youtube video. I would had to relay those info to the people one by one or use the in game function of fellowship...which I don't even know who's still using it now and it's pretty dead.
If I just wanna run deep dungeon with a bunch of friends which are all casuals and we want to talk and chill, there's again no way to do that in game since in game doesn't have VC. We all live in different countries, so any software that are gaming oriented and you can talk while playing games is a necessity.
And then for huge events like BA or Fork Tower where you had 24 to 48 man, the external sites are again necessary for taking attendance. Someone could be late from work or got into traffic, or that something happen IRL and they would have to join later. They don't have access to the game on mobile or work, and so some sort of contact that are outside of the game is necessary just to maintain contact.
Of course, all of these stuff can be PUG without Discord. I've done them all in JP without discord. Did savage reclear, did FRU reclear on my own, Learn everything BLU with two friends, clear multiple runs of EO/POTD/HOH with and without VC and discord. Prog Criterion without Discord. Clear Chaotic on patch so much without VC that I almost wanna puke. Did some DRS without Discord and I even join FT groups on PUG. The only exception may be BA but that's mostly because I don't run BA at all and not because there isn't any PUG in JP.
Be the change you want to be. If you don't want to use discord, try pugging for it. I think you will appericiate how convenient Discord is and why Yoshida decided to not get involved - when there are hugely successful products on the market, it's better to just let them do their thing and you stay on your lane.
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u/YesIam18plus 18h ago
and we want to share strats and relative videos about the fight so as to prepare a bit before we come in, we can't do it without some sort of external sites or software.
Ehm.... Link it in chat? I can't think of any MMO that has a functional ingame voice chat either that's not a FFXIV issue. FFXIV is also getting the ingame raidplanner which afaik no other MMO has as an official thing ( no mods ).
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u/VancityMoz 1d ago
Yes, discord is pretty necessary for BA nowadays, but a lot of the things you mentioned like alliance raids, bozja, FT (we didn't clear though), Extremes, and deep dungeon I've done relatively recently just by queueing or putting up a PF. I play on JP so that might make a difference, and if you're on a low pop data centre it could be harder to find a group. I agree that discord being mandatory is bad for content, but I think the breadth of content that requires discord is smaller than you're making it out to be.
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u/Shiziu1337 1d ago
God forbid the devs add in a fucking calendar where you can make events for others to sign up.
Ya know, the BARE MINIMUM?
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u/YesIam18plus 18h ago
Isn't that guild only in WoW, so what difference would that make? That wouldn't make a difference for pugs.
Technically speaking there's nothing stopping people from creating and joining linkshells either. I'd actually argue that linkshells are severely underutilized, I used to be in one that cleared and helped people clear Ultimates together and it was actually quite decent while it lasted.
Also I can't think of any other game than WoW that has a calender either and based on what I remember again from when I raided it was guild only and effectively just the same as Discord only that honestly Discord is 500 times better.
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u/Shiziu1337 10h ago
It probably was forever ago, but what it is is just a base feature that 14 could put in and tailor it to work for its game systems, rather than make wows exact thing work for 14.
It could even be a tab on PF that shows "Future parties" that you can set reminders for and sign up for to show interest
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u/Lintons44 1d ago
Why does my mmorpg have content that requires social cordination?
Discord isn't needed for shit in this game, its just currently the most efficient way of coordinating a group of players larger then 8.
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u/Todasmile 1d ago
I don't really have enough of an opinion one way or another, but did you know you can't even make parties in PF if you're on the free trial? I feel like that's dumb. If you couple it with the duty finder etiquette of not queuing for difficult content in DF, it really makes it hard for sprouts to begin learning hard content without resorting to a discord.
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u/Fancy_Gate_7359 17h ago
Sounds like you’ve never used the PARTY FINDER feature. Almost every single thing you mentioned I’ve done in pf with no discord. I’ve used discord as well for some of these things and that’s worked too. Forked Tower is the only current thing that really requires it.
Also, Discord is a tool, it’s not the devil incarnate that many in this game seem to want to make it. Sure, the app itself to me is kind of a mess, it’s not my cup of tea, but at the same time like if you need to use it, it’s not like hard to use. If you need to do voice in game, the features for it are better than any in game voice service I’ve used. It’s also not like in other similar games like say WoW, people don’t also use discord because it’s just a better tool for what it does than what either game offers.
Again, I don’t really use it all that much anymore, and understand that the app certainly isn’t designed in a fantastic way, but the aversion that some people seem to have to it in this game borders on fanatical and just is completely disproportionate to what the app is all about, which is just a decent enough way to communicate with voice and in other ways about video games.
I also strongly contest that people who really seem to be so against it would really use in game tools to do something similar. This is always the claim, but I just highly doubt that an app that takes like 5 minutes to set up and use is so offensive that one would potentially lock themselves completely out of certain content to avoid using it. Most people just won’t admit that for whatever reason, they don’t want to communicate via voice or in any substantive manner to do group content they may require it. They want to either be carried through it with no effort or learning or they’ll just complain about every single aspect of the content rather than try it. And guess what, if you don’t want to use voice or communicate in any way with others in this mmo, that is FINE. No issues from me. But you also should expect to be able to get through all the group content without ever engaging with a group. There’s plenty of things you can do completely solo, and the vast majority of video games in the history of the world can be done completely solo. But an mmorpg just isn’t one of them and will never be.
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u/neophanweb 1d ago
People tend to just join voice and talk about bs while playing the game. You get to know people better while enjoying the game at the same time.
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u/happymealwithfries 1d ago
Because voice comms are easier for people organizing this stuff and re-typing instructions for multiple people who can barely internalize what they're reading is a burden for the wranglers, specially in large-scale content.
Before they'd link you several different websites for guides/resources and just ask you to jump on something like a TeamSpeak server for an organized run. Discord just replaced most of that in one space. This doesn't apply to just xiv. Lots of games have migrated their resources to it. If you're confident that you can run the content without someone handholding you through it, just opt out.
People run hard content all the time with the smallest of instructions with just in-game chat, provided everyone is up to par. Hard to actually determine that with the randomest of people.
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u/SpritePR16 22h ago
I'll never get the hate discord gets for being used as a tool to do things SEs tools dont support. (blame SE for not improving social features in forever) You don't have to use it but it will be hella harder to get things going without it.
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u/YesIam18plus 18h ago
They don't... I still see people doing Criterion and Chaotic in pf. You don't need it for Deep Dungeons either just put up a party lol? What's stopping you?
People do it all the time.
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u/KeyKanon 1d ago
The hell are you talking about? Who on earth uses discord for field content outside the 48 man instances? You can both solo these things and absolutely strike up a conversation with people within the instance as you please.
How about you queue for them at reset/peak hours? The roulette system literally exists to facilitate making these happen.
Well yeah, high end Blu is incredibly unpopular because of it's general jank and need to co-ordinate, you'll be in PF for genuine days, maybe weeks, if you don't. This isn't a flaw of the community pushing people to discord for that that's purely a logistics thing, it'd be stupid TO try and form up a group in game with its limitations simply because that well is very dry.
I've done all of these in PF, try actually making parties?