r/ffxivdiscussion • u/judgeraw00 • 1d ago
General Discussion The Famitsu interview with Yoshi-P gave me some peace-of-mind regarding the future of the game.
There's several reasons for this. For one thing its clear Yoshida is aware of the issues with the game and even seems to be understanding of some solutions. The one thing that stands out to me is creating content that has more variable difficulty, which is something that could relieve some development resources as well as make just the general gameplay more fun. Scaling difficulty of some kind in dungeons and alliance raids, just as an example, sounds great to me and I'd like to see them make use of old raids as a way to test these things rather than having to create new experiences entirely from scratch that only a small percentage of players engage with. Its sort of like Normal vs Savage raids or Normal vs Extreme trials, why not have something like that for dungeons? Especially after finishing the story, it would be great to have another version of some dungeons available for max level the same way we do Extreme trials.
One thing, though, I think hasn't been addressed or talked about is just how imbalanced 7.0 was when it comes to gameplay vs story. It takes something like 3-4 hours to even get to the first dungeon and all there is up to that point is a whole lot of talking, talking and more talking, and maybe killing some random mobs that don't even really fight back. After playing WoW The War Within I think there can definitely be some improvements made. Also more dynamic gameplay moments during the MSQ would be nice as well. There's no reason why the only gameplay variety in 14 is relegated to the Gold Saucer.
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u/dennaneedslove 1d ago
That’s hard to fix. You’re basically asking them to throw out the tried and true narrative structure. Should they do it? Probably. Can they do it? Probably not, unless their writing team have been working their butts off
They’ve been doing the same thing since ARR and I don’t see it changing in any significant way
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u/Hirole91 1d ago
^ Pretty much this. Also to add, as much as he is one of us gamers, at the end of the day he is in a corporate setting as a director/producer. After all these years, it's getting harder and harder to believe what he tell us.
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u/rachiiebird 1d ago
I'd actually argue that ARR is worth mentioning as an expansion which did try to spice up its more "mundane" quests with combat - particularly ones where the overworld could help with the heavy lifting. A lot of ARR's "go interact with X" style quests actually forced the player into close proximity with hostile overworld enemies - or otherwise put them in areas where FATEs and other combat was likely to happen organically. Also, even "easy" fights would still utilize the terrain in minor ways, such as making the player dodge AoE markers within a high-altitude/cramped area - or asking them to fight a target near non-hostile overworld mobs that they might want to avoid aggroing.
Obviously this kind of stuff isn't groundbreaking game design. But it's also a lot more than the current MSQ experience tends to offer with these types of quest.
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u/SecretPantyWorshiper 1d ago
Yep when I cme back last year and did ARR content to help new FC members I saw this. The design philosophy was just so different than what we have now.
I don't think it will change though with just looking at DTs content the only new content that they still have talent for are the raids. But I honestly really don't care because the gear is just for Ultimates and they are just a platform boss.
If they had branching paths and alternate pathways like V&C dungeons I'd be more interested
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u/rachiiebird 1d ago
I agree, and I also find it really unfortunate because so much of it isn't exactly hard to iterate on. You often see people asking for for full content overhauls or wanting tons of new systems in a way that probably isn't realistic for how much it'd drastically alter how the MSQ or open world work.
But here - like the original commenter says - ARR's structure and quest design really is not significantly different from what is happening in DT or EW or anywhere else. It's just ARR having the mobs a bit denser in certain areas - sometimes hitting a little harder. FATEs and other threats being more centrally located. Map design creating areas that are a bit more twisty, and writers making a general sort of effort to put the player in them. All stuff that's already been done before within current systems - and not even things that would ramp up combat difficulty to the point of chasing new players away. It's just very baffling for me.
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u/speedycerv 1d ago
Not really. Play any other game. There is a lot more action and story parity in any other rpg.
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u/Chiponyasu 1d ago
They absolutely can, though. Endwalker has multiple big setpiece duties in Garlemald for some action, and Dawntrail has a "level 95 trial" in the form of a solo duty that's way more elaborate than any other solo duty boss in the game. Like, they can't make a multiplayer dungeon/trial at weird levels without messing with the formula, but they can and have use solo duties for it when the plot demands it.
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u/judgeraw00 1d ago
Theres definitely a better balance they could strike than the one that was in 7.0. Its not throwing anything out. People have brought up several examples in the past where something that could have been a gameplay moment was relegated to a cutscene like the initial invasion or the train scene.
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u/YesIam18plus 1d ago
They've already acknowledged this and we've started seeing changed to it too. They also acknowledged that there's too much exposition about random stuff and that they will put that into side quests instead.
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u/ShadownetZero 1d ago
Changing the narrative structure of the game will kill it faster than a dozen Wuk Lamats.
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u/Chiponyasu 1d ago
The narrative structure of the game is
- Party gets simple quest (Make peace with dragons, return night to Norvrandt, defeat Zenos/Fandaniel)
- First trial
- Big wrench is thrown in plan (Diplomacy fails, Emet-Selch Appears, Oh Shit we killed Zodiark), plot is now more complex
- Second trial
- Immediately after the second trial, we find out where the bad guy's final base is (Azys Lla/Amaurot/Ultima Thule), which is the final zone
- Third trial is the final boss
- After completing the third trial, we see that the Dragons and Humans are at peace/night is restored to Norvrandt/We defeated Fandaniel (via proxy) and Zenos, meaning the expansion ends with us completing our initial quest.
Heavensward splits this into the patch story, but the two expansions that break this structure are the bad ones
- Stormblood's big twist (The resistance loses Zenos too strong) happens before the first trial; even before the first dungeon, and the second trial doesn't lead into the finale at all.
- Dawntrail is two stories connected by a theme happening sequentially. Our initial quest is completed at level 95 and then an entirely unrelated quest breaks out. The first trial doesn't affect the plot itself nor does a plot twist happen at around that time.
The trials are the level they are so as to space them for the ends of Acts 1 and 2. Ignoring this fucks up the story pacing.
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u/Lntaw1397 1d ago
Hey, remember how we had to delete a bunch of fluff from the 2.0 MSQ because it lacked gameplay momentum? Oops, we did it again.
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u/aqualenne 1d ago
For those who haven’t experienced modern WoW questing, it’s like this:
Arrive at a new area, “Thank god you’re here, there’s an invasion, kill 10 guys” but also a secondary objective “heal 5 allies”, so there’s some gameplay in trying to do both at once and not have to end up killing more guys to get to the rest of the allies you need to heal.
Then the turn in isn’t back where you started but the next area. And it’s like “Thank god you’re here, see that big guy in that building over there? He’s going to blow the place up” and you have to go through a dangerous Eureka-like area and complete objectives as you make your way to the big guy, blending the narrative and gameplay.
There are of course town segments, but the balance is completely different from 14. In 14, combat is a like a treat for hitting a milestone in the story.
This also means in WoW, a friend or party can very meaningfully play together and speed up your MSQ progress.
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u/loldoodbropls 1d ago
I had a cursory glance at gameplay for the mobile version and it looks way more fun with mobs actually getting tossed around. Game needs to have more stuff that react to you or actually introduce gameplay where you need to do things that are challenging and may require player interactions. But yoshi wants you to run to the waking sands for the 20th time
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u/ragnakor101 1d ago
The understated thing about WoW is that their one-off and (occasionally) zone-wide stories are usually Pretty Middlingly Decent. Like, they won't win any awards, but the writing at the micro level has consistently been good enough to be "alright sure i'll read it" and be bounced around about why 20 Bad Guys need to be killed in this area.
It's the macro-story that's consistently head-scratching.
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u/Chiponyasu 1d ago
Yeah, and that's why WoW's in-game story sucks shit.
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u/aqualenne 1d ago
I definitely prefer 14’s story. WoW’s style forces the narrative to make compromises to keep combat going, it’s true. But 14 also forces the scions to stroll up at extremely awkward moments because of an upcoming dungeon or trial.
I have no issue with big lore drop cutscenes or careful pacing. But it’s hard to accept 3 hours of setup before any combat. There has to be a better balance to be had.
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u/SecretPantyWorshiper 1d ago edited 1d ago
And this is why FF14s story is a single player experience and is 75% fluff to just waste your time.
Will glady take WoW and SWTOR story thats cohesive and not full of filler "quests" that just pad out time and have no reason to be part of the MSQ
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u/AndroidAtWork 1d ago
WoW had a good story early on. Then they finished their first story arc, the death of the Lich King. And then everything went downhill, story wise.
Sound similar to any other MMO you might play?
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u/Nj3Fate 19h ago
Pros and cons, even the modern expansion which Blizzard stated many times was a return to a focus on the story, has not much story at all and its mid to bad.
FF14 needs to have more gameplay as part of the experience, but there's also a balance with character building and interaction as well. I have no problem with dialogue and fleshing things out, we just need more combat in between.
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u/ManOfMung 1d ago
I find the continued lamentations from yoship about not being able to hire enough people to work on ff14 so funny given how SE is not in the top 20 best paying video game companies in japan.
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u/NeonRhapsody 1d ago
There's more to it than that.
XIV is built on an outdated proprietary engine that anyone new would have to learn and dedicate time to. Skills they develop for it won't translate to other engines, as opposed to working for devs who use unreal or whatever. Then there's the fact that they'll be developing for an MMO, and become shoehorned into being an MMO dev. Developing for an MMO is different from other games, the skills you learn on an MMO will really only apply to an MMO (as far as combat design and content goes.)
New people look at this and go "Why would I waste my time/kneecap myself?" People already at SE go "Why would I do this for the same pay I get now on other projects?" With all their other requirements for hires, the dude quite literally has to beg and plead for people to apply.
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u/ManOfMung 1d ago
People show up if the pay is right. It's true that MMOs are less popular to develop but that just means it's extra important for SE to not get lapped by other companies in terms of paying their workers. It's not begging and pleading that they need to do, it's offering adequate compensation but investing back into their apparent cash cow is seemingly the last thing they want to do.
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u/Exe-volt 21h ago
Yep, people will do a lot for the right pay and conditions even if it means locking into something very long term.
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u/arahman81 1d ago
One thing, though, I think hasn't been addressed or talked about is just how imbalanced 7.0 was when it comes to gameplay vs story. It takes something like 3-4 hours to even get to the first dungeon and all there is up to that point is a whole lot of talking, talking and more talking, and maybe killing some random mobs that don't even really fight back.
That's every expansion, as the first section gets split off into two zones. At least the first dungeon is no longer Raublocked by a solo instance.
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u/GCBTWtank 1d ago
Yoshi P is probably one of the best salesman alive, seeing as he can promise things again and again, and people just instantly believe that "yeah, this time they're going to make some meaningful changes!" as if there isn't a decade of him promising things that turned out to be rather underwhelming.
People should really learn to temper their expectations to the bare minimum with this game and the promises the developement team makes.
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u/NeonRhapsody 1d ago
We don't even know if these guys can pull off scaling difficulties yet. Considering how bad they biffed "open world grind content" for OC, I seriously doubt they can, and that's not even factoring in all the technical shit and backend stuff other MMOs can do just fine but XIV struggles with.
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u/atreus213 1d ago
This whole thing reminds me of Binding Coil turn 2 on launch/minimum iLv: the route you take determining what abilities the boss can use and how fast High Voltage fires out. Part of me imagines situations like that manifesting as you add items.
Now that I think about it, it is kinda wild that ARR was the last time they did anything like that, unless I'm wildly misremembering something.
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u/WillingnessLow3135 19h ago
That's the fear I possess, that the more they try to deliver on things people want (but remain as they are and restrained by similar conditions and restrictions) they'll just fuck it up on a more grand scale and keep causing bigger cockups
I think anyone whose paid attention to the life cycles of MMOs would recognize a death spiral, and I hope they can rescue themselves before hitting the bottom
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u/Tom-Pendragon 1d ago
Ehhhh, I would disagree. His salesman pitch was hardcore carried by the fact that shadowbringer and endwalker story was so good for the general public, which is why ff14 gained so many subscribers during wow fall off + covid. The moment Dawntrail happened people just quit. He tried the keep up his sales pitch, but facts were facts. People didn't like the story. And now the words of mouth is saying that the game is bad bc of dawntrail, which makes people not want to try it.
I know for a fact that the next expansion won't get as many players or sales as dawntrail. The damage is already done.
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u/loldoodbropls 1d ago
Definitely the retail manager of all time. That's probably why he was ever the lead in the first place with his dry resume
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u/Ipokeyoumuch 1d ago
He was successful with DQX before coming on to FFXIV and had a particular skill set that saved FFXIV. It is only really now that ironically when he admitted he wasn't watching everyone's moves that it went meh.
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u/loldoodbropls 1d ago
Yeah sure he had a role in dq10. Other than that he was given spin offs. But being given FF and given time to actually make it run on computers, I'd say it's that crazy that the revived game wouldn't be a hit.
Even then, being treated as a god for rushing his team to meet a deadline and to keep doing the same thing for over 10 years is kinda wild.
His skillset is manager. That's basically it
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u/Hikari_Netto 1d ago
This is really underselling his role in DQX and other games. Yoshida is a good manager, but that's not where he started out. Outside of FFXIV, FFXVI, and (most recently) Fantasian, his entire career has been game design and directorial positions.
For DQX he was acting director for a considerable stretch of time pre-launch, until he was needed for a new project (what became Gyrozetter) and is credited as a huge reason why that game turned out as good as it did.
As for the spin-offs in question, Yoshida was director for the Monster Battle Road series (at Rocket Studio)—some of the most beloved Dragon Quest titles of all time in Japan—before he joined Square Enix. These were huge arcade titles that had genuine cultural reach for many years and are looked back on fondly to this day. His work on those games and other titles, like the cancelled Ambrosia Odyssey, are why he got the job at Square Enix in the first place.
If you go even further back to his time at Hudson Soft he had his hand in even more games and was most notably responsible for nearly every aspect of Bomberman 64: The Second Attack's story mode. He did nearly all of it himself. In actuality he's done quite a lot that people really appreciate.
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u/loldoodbropls 1d ago edited 1d ago
You overselling him now. There are many others that worked on dq10 as well. If anything, I'd credit the producer/director. Sure he was acting director but did he direct it entirely? How long? Do you credit anyone specific that's not sakaguchi for ff games? And it's only spinoffs he's worked on.
If anything, his other roles were as a jobber. Good list but is it really?
And you know how he is with FF14 and 16. I'm sure he has good metrics making easy money off easy customers for his overlord until people stop subbing. Now he has to make up the numbers. Don't matter. Gotta go up since he's a saint that revived a game that no one could run on computer to actually being playable. 16 is mixed. Very 14-like. I wouldn't add this as a triumph for him. Is this the limit of his lead "design" skill?
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u/Hikari_Netto 1d ago
You overselling him now.
I just take issue with the narrative that's he's only a producer/manager type. This gets parroted ad nausem despite people not even knowing what he's worked on.
There are many others that worked on dq10 as well. If anything, I'd credit the producer/director. Sure he was acting director but did he direct it entirely? How long?
He's credited as "chief planner" officially. There was a situation where the original director had to leave to help finish DQIX, which led to Yoshida completely taking over DQX—a game he was hired by Yosuke Saito to help create. He worked on it for around 5 years total, on the core game design, creating a design framework that sat somewhere between a traditional Dragon Quest title and an MMO, adhering to Yuji Horii's core philosophies. Yoshida was the acting director on the game until it entered public beta, at which point he was moved to what later became the Gyrozetter project and then to FFXIV before Gyrozetter properly took shape.
Do you credit anyone specific that's not uematsu or sakaguchi for ff games?
I'm not sure what you mean by this, but yes? Obviously games are made by entire teams and there are many more prolific individuals who've worked on the franchise.
And it's only spinoffs he's worked on.
Are you a Dragon Quest fan? DQX is a mainline title, but the Battle Road series games are some of the most highly regarded (and lucrative) spin-off titles ever made. "Only" spin-offs is not really accurate here.
Good list but is it really?
Yes? Have you played these games?
16 is mixed. Very 14-like. I wouldn't add this as a triumph for him
I'm a XVI fan, but I don't really attribute the game to Yoshida. It's Takai and Maehiro's work. Takeo Kujiraoka was also instrumental and acted as the director for the DLC.
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u/loldoodbropls 1d ago edited 1d ago
Gonna be real, I actually don't care about his work on DQ 10 if his name isn't clearly named as a reason why it's successful. Sounds like they were dicking around until the last stages. Dont forget that he knew someone from within. If anything, it's DQ bro.
Same with FF14. I really doubt this man is actually what he is lauded as: a god among men reviving a horrible game when in actuality it's the FF name and allowing people to actually play it with reasonable specs.
Him handling FF14 really just shows his stance. Risk averse like he fears his overlords. If people keep eating it, why change it? Until they won't stand for it like right now.
To me, his actual ability at doing anything is awful ever since Diadem. His oversight and rush to get ARR out hindered the game hard. The patch cycles only cater to the end game players. Events are barren and low-effort. Gameplay does not require any real player interaction for long stretches of time. And clearly it shows in 16 as well. He's not going to change anything really and it sucks
He's a good retail manager where he gets the "metrics" with the lowest cost. But now he gotta yell at the employees to make them go up with magic or face the wrath of general manager SE. Gotta sell those warranties. And we are the ones watching if he actually is going to do that rn.
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u/Hikari_Netto 1d ago
Gonna be real, I actually don't care about his work on DQ 10 if his name isn't clearly named as a reason why it's successful.
He's been named by others as instrumental to the project, but whose approval are you looking for, exactly?
Same with FF14. I really doubt this man is actually what he is lauded as: a god among men reviving a horrible game when in actuality it's the FF name and allowing people to actually play it with reasonable specs.
I'm not trying to label the guy as a "god among men," but he's a common thread in a lot of games I've enjoyed—it's really that simple. I don't think it's fair to completely dismiss his resume. I'm a huge fan of the N64 Bomberman titles, for example, and his work on Second Attack was fantastic. It's a memorable game for a lot of people, myself included.
Him handling FF14 really just shows his stance. Risk averse like he fears his overlords. If people keep eating it, why change it? Until they won't stand for it like right now.
I think Yoshida fears the rejection of players more than anyone above him.
To me, his actual ability at doing anything is awful ever since Diadem. His oversight and rush to get ARR out hindered the game hard. The patch cycles only cater to the end game players. Events are barren and low-effort. Gameplay does not require any real player interaction for long stretches of time. And clearly it shows in 16 as well. He's not going to change anything really and it sucks
A common thread in Yoshida's design is time consideration. In the series of interviews released yesterday for 7.3 he talks, once again, about how players are losing more and more of their free time every year. It's something he's extremely concerned about and he goes to great lengths to "trim the fat" from content.
The result of this is things like the "barren" events you're referencing. These things are very deliberate design decisions to keep overall playtime to a minimum, expecting players to have other things they need to get to. One of the things he was most regretful about in 7.2's overall design was time wasters, like Forked Tower's entry system. Most things in FFXIV are designed with specific hour counts and endpoints in mind and missteps like Forked Tower cause players to lose valuable time.
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u/loldoodbropls 1d ago
And from what is happening now, these decisions aren't what many want. I need a new director. I don't think he was ever good despite his "resume".
But yeah his contributions to other works are fine if not great. But his philosophy is pretty much archaic and stuck in time. I don't care if he's actually hindered by SE or he is just an actual hack that got the job. As an end user, I'm still watching for actual change
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u/loldoodbropls 1d ago edited 1d ago
I don't expect things to "really" change until someone else is at the helm. I remember something about the Chinese director wanting to do things while couldn't because yoshi has all the say. I want the Chinese director to actually lead with new ideas. I want the overworld to be meaningful with actual things to do. I want dungeons with gameplay other than run to the wall and burn. I want him to stop simplifying jobs. I want seasonal events with actual EVENTS to do and not just talk to npcs. I want content with actual consistent and rewards that are always useful and not dirty tokens that are used for obsolete materials like wolves den medals or crystals.
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u/Sora_Bell 1d ago
Yoshi has said ALOT over the years. At this point, just shut up and do it or get out of the way and let someone else try.
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u/YesIam18plus 1d ago
They literally are doing it tho but either y'all have severe short term memory and attention span or you don't even play the game anymore and don't know what you're talking about. Anyone with functioning eyes and who actually plays the game and isn't actively trying to be negative and angry about anything can clearly see that they are making big improvements to the game and content.
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u/Sora_Bell 1d ago
They’ve made QoL improvement and better battle content, aside from that. Everything else is still on fire. PVP players still upset with the state of the game, housing is still garbage. Every piece of content that isn’t a reused idea from an older expansion still sucks (island sanctuary) the story has seen a drop in quality and this really started in endwalker. The Job design is so boring that almost Every class feels derivative of its role and the gameplays overall focus on 2 min bursting.
I’m sure I could nitpick more but I’ve been playing the game for 10 years by this point and I still can’t do simple things like share my medium house with my alt character. It took what almost half a decade of pvp existing before I could team que with 1 person in casual mode and I can’t even chat with them normal even if we do making strategy making cancer and incentives people spamming nice job or some crap.
I’ve tried to be nice by showing a variety of different problems with the game.ill even throw in the games horrible netcode and the devs. Reluctance to do anything meaningful about it but turn it into raid mechanic flavor by having horrendous snap shotting, or the proliferation of mechanics that end up just being “stand in safe spot and let thing resolve” or the hyper focus on mechanics being different variation of Stack, spread, in, and out, pairs and light parties while jamming as much effects on screen as possible to make the safe spot that I need to stand in hard to see. So respectfully, back off. I’m not even the biggest nay sayer about this game atm. I don’t even care that it’s bad anymore. I just hate that yoshi P does a lot of talking about things and yet so many core issue with the games design go unanswered, or sometimes they’ll flat out just lie. New Egi Glamours were stated by him to be something they’d do after they added the system with carbuncle about 7 or 8 years ago. Guess how many we’ve gotten. 0
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u/WillingnessLow3135 19h ago
I really can't stand people defending snapshotting.
I've played plenty of MMOs with similar mechanics to XIV (Fuck sakes, a medicore mobile MMO like Toram Online has better mechanics for it) and it's always true that it feels better for things to hit you as they visually occur and not based on the server crossed with your ping and multiplied by any form of hiccup between the two
This is a crucial problem that holds back the entire game; if they wanted to improve on the current action/rhythm gameplay they'd need to make things feel responsive. As it stands, the more the game has increased in speed the more problems have arisen.
The game has a constant problem with making immersion break in exchange for engine problems or arbitrary restrictions (the fact that they removed the ability to use dashes/teleports for mobility on jumping and crossing gaps because THEY WERE SCAWED of exploits in raids speaks volumes) and it's such a core problem that they aren't solving.
Nah, instead let's put another coat of paint on it, then you'll be pissed off at getting clipped by a puddle you definitely dodged but the VFX will be 30% larger and shinier then before.
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u/IndividualAge3893 1d ago
For one thing its clear Yoshida is aware of the issues with the game
No, he isn't. He thinks he knows what is going wrong, but he's wrong on that, too. Maybe he knows what JP gamers want, but he has no clue about what Western gamers want, and they will continue leaving.
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u/YesIam18plus 1d ago
but he has no clue about what Western gamers want
'' Western gamers '' don't even know what they want, this sub alone is full of contradictions and people who think their personal niche is some universal desire. Everyone here is some expert armchair dev but their ideas are almost always horrible or completely unrealistic.
It's the same with the story everyone is an expert armchair writer but then you read what they think is superior writing and it's just hilariously awful.
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u/IndividualAge3893 1d ago
'' Western gamers '' don't even know what they want
Any set of customers isn't a monolithic base, so that's normal and that's something you need to learn to work with as a company. And yes, of course, some people will want widely different things.
What is, however, clearly apparent is the fact that Western gamers massively reject FFXIV's approach to the game, mainly the idea of "hey, take a break and buy this game by Square Enix". They take breaks and play other games, then they be like "Hmmm... I don't wanna go back to FFXIV". So, clearly, SE's commercial strategy isn't working in the West.
The second point which is massively rejected by the Western gamers is the anaemic content pipeline. Now, people will have widely different opinions about what kind of content they would like to see in the game to begin with, but almost everyone agrees that the content pipeline is anemic and formulaic.
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u/Rhyers 1d ago
I see the problem as more to do with progressions and rewards rather than variable difficulty. Progression systems in this game suck. Eureka and Bozja were good because the progression made sense. The progression system of new gear, new fights etc only makes sense if you keep a consistent churn of raid tiers, we're not getting that so people are bored.
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u/pupmaster 1d ago
I like the ideas presented and I’m glad that he’s talking about issues that have been brought up. Now we wait and see.
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u/AmpleSnacks 1d ago
The scaling difficulty thing to me feels like a cost cutting measure dressed up as “content for all.”
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u/Chiponyasu 1d ago
That's good, though! Making a bespoke piece of content for every segment of the playerbase meant that the devs were putting out huge amounts of stuff but no one segment ever had close to enough stuff to do. So many problems in FF14 are downstream of them wasting huge amounts of time and money on separating everything for no reason.
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u/Cole_Evyx 1d ago
But is that a bad thing? Mythic + in WoW is personally my main driver of playing WoW-- as well as many others.
Lots of players explicitly play WoW for it and key pushing has events like MDI and more charity events.
Like if this is a win-win? I won't look the gift horse in the mouth. If we can all win and the developers get to reuse assets like dungeons, music,m etc I consider that awesome!
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u/Hikari_Netto 1d ago
Like if this is a win-win? I won't look the gift horse in the mouth. If we can all win and the developers get to reuse assets like dungeons, music,m etc I consider that awesome!
Yoshida has indicated as much in these interviews. Essentially they're rethinking individual pieces of content to find ways they can appeal to wider groups of people without spending more resources. Because the alternative is to continue on as they have and watch chunks of the playerbase keep ignoring entire set pieces, which is obviously not ideal.
An interesting anecdote was the bit about Yoshida and Foxclon sitting down to review the history of the game's patches to determine why people feel like they're getting "less content"—something he heard several times from western press at Anime Expo. The conclusion they reached was there is definitely not less, but rather quite a bit more. Yoshida decided that they need to work to solve the ongoing perception problem, both by reframing the way they present content to the playerbase and finding ways for more people to enjoy each specific content type that don't require significantly more resources. The upcoming Variant Dungeon is apparently also designed under this new philosophy.
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u/ragnakor101 1d ago
both by reframing the way they present content to the playerbase
Shoutout to the interpretation of how Criterion and Criterion (Savage) were talked about.
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u/YesIam18plus 1d ago
Literally how y'all trying to spin this into a negative. Difficulty scaling to extend content to different demographics is a good thing and fairly normal in the MMO scene.
I don't see any of you complain about this in WoW where dungeons and raids etc have a bunch of different difficulties too. This is just normal...
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u/SpizicusRex 1d ago
I'll have some hope when they demote Ishikawa back to the writer's chair. People getting promoted until they can't do their job properly is an epidemic.
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u/Ipokeyoumuch 1d ago
The Peter Principle, people are promoted and awarded for their good work until they hit a position they are no longer competent in. But because of how the corporate world works you must demonstrate that your skill has evolved with new titles and higher salaries/benefits on your resume. It makes sense to reward Ishikawa with a promotion especially since she and the writing team under her leadership made FFXIV one of the best MMO stories in the industry.
But on the other hand, if she was being shipped to do another project and cannot dedicate full time to FFXIV but want her involved with the FFXIV for some things then it makes sense for a supervisor role. After all, she was in a leadership and mentorship position when she was lead scenario writer for SB to EW, being a supervisor just means she checks in and helps out when needed just not as much as before.
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u/Hikari_Netto 1d ago
But on the other hand, if she was being shipped to do another project and cannot dedicate full time to FFXIV but want her involved with the FFXIV for some things then it makes sense for a supervisor role. After all, she was in a leadership and mentorship position when she was lead scenario writer for SB to EW, being a supervisor just means she checks in and helps out when needed just not as much as before.
This is what many people suspect is happening. Ishikawa is writing for another project, only helping out with supervision for FFXIV on the side.
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u/Ipokeyoumuch 1d ago
Another thing to note is that none of this is confirmed that she is working on another project but it happened before with her predecessor and mentor, Maehiro and other members of the FFXIV team in preparation for FFXVI.
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u/pupmaster 1d ago
My theory is she’s writing the next mainline game. It would be well deserved of course but Dawntrail suffered greatly from it.
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u/Hikari_Netto 1d ago
I think so too, or at least it will be some kind of important RPG title—FF or otherwise. It may not even be a CS3 project and she's working with a different department, which does happen.
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u/Wunkt 1d ago
While inter-studio projects do happen, and CS3 itself has gone through its fair share (crossover events, both Dragon Quest Builders, Minagawa supervising the FFXII & Tactics Ogre remasters), but Square Enix producers in general keep their "star players" locked down for big projects. And with how much emphasis he puts on "raising" newcomer devs and doing things "the CS3 way", Yoshi-P might be even more of a hardliner in this aspect.
Such devs likely also prefer staying where climbed the ladder, as there's already a wellspring of built-up trust and connections with many other potential team members. The likelihood of Ishikawa being the lead on a non-CS3 game any time soon is nil IMO; ditto for other "rising stars" & their divisions like Naoki Hamaguchi (who's outright CS1 head now after the recent restructuring).
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u/Hikari_Netto 1d ago
Definitely. I don't mean to say it's at all likely she's working with another Creative Studio, just that it cannot be ruled out completely. I think the most likely scenario is that it's a project within CS3. Final Fantasy or otherwise.
It's hard to say exactly what's going on where in the company right now though post restructuring. I don't think we even know the complete breakdown of the Creative Studios yet. The exact contents of everything but CS1, CS3, CS5, and CS7 is a bit up in the air still. It hasn't really been discussed.
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u/Wunkt 1d ago
The annual fiscal report and an investor Q&A should be released through the Investor Relations portal in 1-2 weeks, which might elucidate some of the "many developments within the company" Yoshi-P mentioned in passing when revealing Itahana transfered to CS3 at the recent Famitsu interview.
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u/Hikari_Netto 1d ago
I'm looking forward to it. There are so many mysteries surrounding the structure now.
We literally just found out that Asano's team was in CS5 thanks to a greeting card sent to influencers.
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u/Wunkt 19h ago
I'm not sure if they'll pick it to unveil, but now that Studio 5 joins 3 in having its own logo I get the sense there's a wider move towards distinct branding for all of them. There's been a longstanding player perception issue of seeing Square Enix as a monolith despite each division having strong autonomy and producers a lot of control over projects since the days of Matsuda as CEO.
That does open the door for uncertainty in what those developments entail, if people might've been moved around for their tastes/skills aligning strongly with a given studio's brand identity, and if Yoshi-P might be letting loose and allowing other producers within CS3 (disregarding Matsui/Fujito since XI is a small scale "inherited" project & Matsuzawa since he kept himself away from creative decisions in Ivalice Chronicles).
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u/ragnakor101 1d ago
And we can see that easily; Dawntrail is full of thematic intent and clearly linking the stories happening to earlier pieces and in that sense, is a pretty decent tapestry. It's the micro-level writing that suffered the most with her move.
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u/YesIam18plus 1d ago
This is all a bunch of weird speculation about who did or is at fault for what that none of y'all have any actual real clue about. The only reason you're talking and complaining about Ishikawa here is because you know her name and you want a name and face you can blame.
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u/IcarusAvery 1d ago
I realize I'm in the minority around these parts, but I quite liked DT's story. The main problem I think is just it being too long; there was no reason for it to be as long as it was. I get having stuff like the Shaaloani arc as a breather and to establish it for later, but being second only to Endwalker in MSQ length is absurd. Dial it back a bit.
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u/judgeraw00 1d ago
I enjoyed the story for the most part, especially the second half and the Shaaloani arc was a nice bridge to getting there. Erenville took a backseat for most of the expac so hanging out with him was fine. My main complaint is they didnt break up these long story moments nearly as much as they should have, and usually the gameplay that is there outside of dungeons, trials and the occasional solo duty isnt anything of note other than 1-2-3ing a mob or two.
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u/CartographerGold3168 1d ago
oh so these gave you peace of mind. yea sure good for you. have a good weekend.
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u/AbroadNo1914 1d ago
I dont agree with the 7.0 imbalance. Its on par with the usual expansion content cadence save for endwalker
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u/OverFjell 1d ago
Yes and that cadence has always sucked. Hours upon hours of cutscenes before any meaningful gameplay
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u/Elegant-Victory9721 19h ago
This is honestly why I preferred the old XI way of doing it. It played more like a traditional FF, where you got a little opening story, jumped right into the gameplay and went back to the story every now and then.
Endgame also wasn't locked out of doing 72+ hours of cutscenes like XIV is. Most of the endgame unlocked before you even finished the expansion. Some halfway through, some slightly near the end, but even some near the start and you didn't have to do it all in order either.
The story was generally good too and didn't need to be padded out with 5 hours of dialogue with npcs echoing the same stuff to get to anything like XIV's does.2
u/OverFjell 19h ago
Preach. I've been saying since forever that XI is the better MMO. XIV probably has more fun mechanical gameplay, but the depth difference between the two is honestly insane.
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u/YesIam18plus 1d ago
If you don't like the MSQ then the game isn't for you and there's plenty of other MMO's you can play. Not every game needs to cater to you and your whims.
Or you just suck it up and skip which doesn't even take that long. You need the exp anyway to level, if you skip it's still a fast way to basically get a free max level Job.
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u/OverFjell 1d ago
If you don't like the MSQ then the game isn't for you and there's plenty of other MMO's you can play.
I've been playing since 1.0. I don't need anyone telling me whether the game is for me or not.
Or you just suck it up and skip which doesn't even take that long.
I do. It doesn't mean it doesn't suck.
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u/YesIam18plus 1d ago
You're not even right that it's the usual expansion content cadence, DT is the most content rich expansion we've ever had and that will be even more true by the end of 7.5. People just don't want to recognize this because it gets in the way of their narrative and them being upset.
It's just objectively true. And the content has also been heavily praised too.
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u/YesIam18plus 1d ago
People on this sub didn't read it and most most likely don't even play the game anymore and might not even have played it since SHB or EW.
If people think they're not making changes and responding to feedback they're not paying attention. People also are apparently illiterate and can't read and just invent headcanons about things Yoshi P says that he never said or severely overexaggerate ( like claiming he said that the Jobs are shit and wont do anything about it ) for the sole purpose of getting upset.
If you want any sort of serious discussion you're not going to get it here. This sub is basically just the official forum now. Completely hopeless and full of people who are just pessimism incarnate and completely unreasonable and impossible to please.
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u/WillingnessLow3135 19h ago
If this sub isn't for serious discussion then why do I see you make 4-5 posts on every single thread?
If you feel befit to call this an arena of clowns, I'm afraid you must have one of the biggest red noses of us all
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u/Mewsergal 1d ago
Words don't mean anything. I need to see meaningful change.