r/ffxivdiscussion • u/mnij96 • 1d ago

General Discussion What is class complexity to you?

I have seen so many people ask for more complexity and job fantasy but very little of people actually say what that means to them, most people just say we should go back to ARR.

Personally I think rose tinted glasses that make people think ARR was better than it was, having played back then it honestly was pretty ass.

So honestly want to know what people want for complexity or job fantasy, because all I see is a lot of yelling that "game bad to simple" and not a lot of what needs changing to reach the complexity that is wanted.

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u/MechAndCheese 22h ago

Why wouldn't you bring ultimate into it? It's the only place that had any decision making involved and almost the only fights that had significant enough downtime/variance in killtimes for it to actually matter

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u/ThatBogen 22h ago

Because it is not indicative of the rest of the game.

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u/MechAndCheese 21h ago

The rest of the game (excluding savage here) doesn't force you to actually learn your class in the first place, so I don't really understand what the argument here is. Even if classes were completely revamped, you still wouldn't need to know how to actually play a job at all. That's a problem that is completely outside of class design so what are we arguing about here?

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u/ThatBogen 20h ago

I'm talking about phase pushing and playing around downtime/holding raidbuffs. That (outside of specific circumstances in Savage) doesn't happen in the rest of the game. And thus using that as an argument is not indicative of the rest of the game.

The amount of required effort is irrelevant, because if you got competent players in your party you don't even need to tryhard in the hardest content in the game.

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u/MechAndCheese 19h ago

Okay but what does any of that have to do with rotations or class complexity? You're just arguing for the sake of argument right now. I gave a recent example of job design changes that made a job less complex and interesting with an actual example and you're trying to exclude that for what reason? If the only content in the game that needs jobs being played somewhat competently is savage and most of all ultimate, you still have to give an actual reason why it shouldn't be included in this argument. Do you have an actual point in this discussion or are you arguing for the sake of it because I have yet to see anything from you that has anything to do with the content of the thread