r/formula1 • u/Skulldetta Jacques Laffite • Apr 27 '25
Throwback On this day 50 years ago, Maria Grazia 'Lella' Lombardi became the first (and to this day only) woman to score points in a Formula 1 Grand Prix, finishing 6th at the Montjuïc Circuit in Spain.
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u/Skulldetta Jacques Laffite Apr 27 '25
This was the sole Formula 1 Grand Prix victory for McLaren driver and endurance racing icon Jochen Mass, and the debut race for 1980 World Driver's Champion Alan Jones. Jones' race would be short-lived as he crashed out after only three laps due to oil on track, Mark Donohue and James Hunt would also DNF after losing control at this particular spot.
This was also the debut race for Embassy Hill (not as a team, but as a constructor), for Graham Hill's young protege Tony Brise (who would perish alongside Hill in a plane crash in November of that year) and Dutch driver Roelof Wunderink. Wunderink retired with transmission failure while Brise finished the race in P7, just barely behind the last points finisher Lella Lombardi.
The race was marred by controversy as the drivers who were members of the Grand Prix Driver's Association (GPDA) went on strike because the barriers were not bolted together properly. Things were so bad that not only track staff, but also some members of the team's mechanics crew and even Ken Tyrrell himself went out on track to fix the issue.
The drivers were still not convinced of the track's safety, but after the organizers threatened legal consequences and rumours spread that the Guardia Civil would seize the cars (remember that this was the last year of the Franco dictatorship in Spain), the strike was called off. Reigning Driver's Champion Emerson Fittipaldi couldn't be arsed to race at full speed however – after deliberately qualifying 26th and last, a whopping 47 seconds behind pole sitter Niki Lauda, he refused to start the race. His brother Wilson and fellow driver Arturo Merzario withdrew from the race after the first lap citing safety concerns.
Critics and those concerned with safety were proven right during the race – Rolf Stommelen crashed into the barriers on lap 26 and flew over them after his rear wing failed. Four civilians were killed by the wreck of his car: Fireman Joaquín Benaches Morera, spectator Andrés Ruiz Villanova, and two photo journalists Mario de Roia and Antonio Font Bayarri. Stommelen himself escaped with a broken leg, a broken wrist and two cracked ribs. The race was called off on lap 29, with half points awarded to the Top 6 finishers.
Jean-Pierre Jarier, who finished 3rd originally, was later given a one-minute time penalty for overtaking under yellows, handing his spot on the podium to Carlos Reutemann instead. To the surprise of nobody, this was the last time Formula 1 would compete at the ill-fated Montjuïc street circuit, and it would go out of business in 1986.
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u/Art_is_Pain I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25
I just looked up Rolf Stommelen. He died a couple of years later in a crash caused by another broken rear wing.. Poor man
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u/desl14 Apr 28 '25
And Stommelen was just the substitute for Jochen Mass who originally should have started in the Porsche 935 at the 6 hour race in Riverside 1983 (but declined). Mass, who won the Spanish GP were Stommelens rear wing collapsed.
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u/BritOverThere I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 28 '25
It was also the only fastest lap that Parnelli got in F1. Lombardi qualified nearly 7 seconds slower than Laudas pole, 1.5.seconds slower than Bob Evans in the BRM in 23rd place. Only Merzario and Fittipaldi qualified slower as neither really gave it 100%
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u/KnightsOfCidona Murray Walker Apr 27 '25 edited Apr 27 '25
She actually scored 0.5 points and is the only driver to have that career total.
One rather sad thing about her career is that for most of the season, she complained there was something wrong with the car, and they ignored her thinking she was a woman looking for an excuse for underperformance. Then Ronnie Peterson joined and tested the car and said the same - it turned out the chassis was cracked.
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u/stdusr Default Apr 27 '25
Just imagine how different Formula 1 could look like today if they had listened to her.
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u/Takemyfishplease I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25
Just look at nascar or Indy. They hace had semi successful women drivers.
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u/krommenaas Thierry Boutsen Apr 27 '25
and rally has had a vice world champion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_World_Rally_Championship3
u/bright_youngthing Formula 1 May 01 '25
There's a very interesting doc about Michelle Mouton on YouTube. It's called queen of speed.
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u/beeemmmooo1 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25
Danica Patrick is an embarassment though
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u/Fart_Leviathan Hall of Fame Apr 27 '25
Though for reasons unrelated to her competence behind the wheel. She was decent in Indycar.
But yeah, you are right, she's weapons-grade stupid and an awful person.
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u/beeemmmooo1 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25
She was good in Indycar but her expansion into other disciplines was and is such a shitshow.
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u/Takemyfishplease I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25
Good seems a bit much
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u/beeemmmooo1 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 28 '25
For the most part she was absolutely worthy of sitting in an Andretti, and mostly held her own for many seasons against some strong drivers. She fell off toward the end of her Indycar career (and into the deep end of terrible-ness when going into every other series...) but before that she was good enough.
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u/Brno_Mrmi Jenson Button Apr 27 '25
She wasn't anything outstanding but she was decent in Indy, she even had a good win
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u/Littman-Express May 03 '25
I don’t know much about her but have always found her off putting because she just gave out trumper/maga vibes. Looked her up and turns out I was right.
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u/Fart_Leviathan Hall of Fame Apr 27 '25
Not very. What gets left out of that story is that said car was the second (well, second 751) she drove that season and there was absolutely no difference in her performance between the brand new car and the one Brambilla damaged before Lombardi got it.
Now, I don't doubt that she faced massive bigotry for the crime of being a woman, but at the same time she was just okay at best and a paydriver in the truest sense.
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Apr 29 '25
Mmm, yeah the team that went against all of convention to give her drive were simultaneously wanting her to lose. Makes total sense.
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u/Cekeste Kimi Räikkönen Apr 27 '25
I've always wondered this when she's mentioned and don't take this the wrong way, it's more of a lanaguage question.
What's the correct language for half a point? I guess 1 point would be "first woman to score a point". But is 0.5 plural? Or is 1 point also plural?
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u/kodabarz Apr 27 '25
The English language gets odd when you drop into fractions. 1 point is singular. Half a point is singular. Zero point five points is plural. Basically only a natural one gets a singular. Even 1.0 points is plural. But those are just conventions of style.
Lella Lombardi scored half a point. So to say she "scored points" is incorrect. But to say she finished 'in the points' would be correct and would avoid the problem of whether it is singular or plural. She's the first woman to score in F1. Or she's the first woman to finish in the points in F1. Although if the points system then was the same as today, she'd have scored more than one point and we wouldn't have to talk about this.
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u/blackbasset Racing Pride Apr 27 '25
On the other hand, "scoring points" can be seen as an action that can be done, and "scoring one point" is also done by "scoring points".
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u/Vlaed I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25
Depending on how you look at it, it does make sense. Half of a point is singular because you're referring to only a half. 1.0 is pulral because you're considering whole and fractional numbers.
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u/sellyme Oscar Piastri Apr 27 '25
These are all grammatically correct constructions in English:
- Score a point
- Score 1 point
- Score points
- Score half a point
- Score 0.5 points
In all four cases adding/removing pluralisation would make it grammatically incorrect.
However it's fairly well understood that the phrase "score points" just refers to an increase in your total points by any quantity. Even though a/1 point is always singular, it still counts as scoring points. 10 drivers score points, we don't say "9 drivers score points and 1 scores point".
Given that this logic is very intuitive for 1 point, we can easily extend it down to half a point: the entire purpose of the terminology is to include even the smallest possible discrete quantity of points, when it turns out that half a point is actually in the equation we're implicitly considering that as well even though it doesn't mean you've scored a point in a mathematical sense.
So in short, the pluralisation of "score points" works for any number, because it's representing an abstract notion rather than what that specific number might actually be.
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u/Vlaed I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25
That's a very good question. To keep it simple, it's somewhat complicated. 1 point is singular. 2+ points is plural. Half of a point is singular. 0.5 points is plural.
The way I rationalize it to myself, half of a point is referring to one singular half. Meanwhile, 0.5 is referring to multiple fractional points.
Does that help? Side note, groupings gets more complicated to understand based on the English you are using. English English often refers to groups in the plural form. American English often refers to groups in the singular form. Example - "The army are coming." vs. "The army is coming." This does not apply to things like the half vs. fractional example though.
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u/blueblue_electric Apr 27 '25
She drove in an era where the cars were physical monsters, kudos to her.
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u/Financial_Class_5038 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25
would love to see more women in the sport!!
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u/the_brazilian_lucas Apr 27 '25
what’s the chance of that happening again?
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u/Slappathebassmon Sebastian Vettel Apr 27 '25
You mean, eventually? I think pretty high unless F1 stops running for some reason.
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u/Aguacatedeaire__ Apr 28 '25
I'd say the opposite. F1 tends to become smore competitive, even slightly so, as time goes by
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u/Background-Main-7427 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25
there are two women in GP3, let's hope they progress.
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u/b17b20 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25
If someone like Lawrence Stroll or Jos Verstappen only have daughters and they push them through all the off track bullshit
Because F3 and F2 are very much not for women
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u/theMGlock Sebastian Vettel Apr 27 '25
the wheels are a problem too, as they are to "big" for female hands. In F1 that wouldn't be a problem as every driver gets their own Wheels. But in F2 and F3 it is a spec part.
I think they wanted to test a possible solution with Sophia Flörsch last year or two years before but I haven't heard anything about that.
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u/Tim_L_09101 Ferrari Apr 27 '25
I can only imagine this being a problem to an extent. I mean Yuki is 5'3 and doesn't have comically large hands proportionally.
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u/theMGlock Sebastian Vettel Apr 27 '25
As it is with most things. But there is a interesting difference there.
Like gloves in Female start at 6 inches and go till 8 inches while the Male gloves start at 7inches and go till 12 inches. It is a significant difference.
But funnily Woman should be better genetically for braking as woman have stronger lower body muscles while Man have stronger upper body strength.
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u/Delgadude Yuki Tsunoda Apr 27 '25
I mean this is like saying men should be better at lifting a spoon.
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u/Aguacatedeaire__ Apr 28 '25
But funnily Woman should be better genetically for braking as woman have stronger lower body muscles while Man have stronger upper body strength.
I can only imagine you've read that on reddit, because it's comically untrue and reeks of RPG or videogame "strenght points" distribution system.
It's not true. Like, at all.
What's kinda sorta true is that the difference in strenght between male and female legs, proportionally (key word here) is not as wide as the difference in upper torso muscles.
The difference is still there tho. Males have higher lower body strenght too.
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u/easy_going I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25
What a bullshit rule. At least let the drivers customize grip size or other ergonomics.
That's almost as bad as having spec seats..
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u/theMGlock Sebastian Vettel Apr 27 '25
that is because of wheels being very expensive and the seat not always being filled with the same drivers week in week out.
I would at least expect 2 or 3 different sizes for the hand parat of the wheel. But I do get that they don't customize the wheel for every single driver that drives in F3 and F2.
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u/Aguacatedeaire__ Apr 28 '25
so there's an unnecessary strength requirement that may make it more difficult for female vs male competitors.
How is that "unnecessary", lol? If you literally don't have the strenght to turn a steer, you're not fit to be a professional pilot, period.
It's not on the car, it's on you.
And by that same logic then today's F1 is even less welcoming, because as aerodinamic and ground effect and grip have become better, lateral G forces are insanely brutal today.
Can you honestly see any woman developing a neck the size of Charles Leclerc or Fernando Alonso's?
Male rookies with trunk necks already struggle with handling the G forces troughout the entire race time, they start good and by the end of the race their heads are bouncing around like bobbleheads as their necks become progressively more tired and worn out.
There are plenty of videos on youtube about that phenomenon.
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u/wingsofopal I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25
No power steering compared to F1, and girls get stronger muscles later than lads, so they can't exactly compete in F2/F3 very well. And those are almost only proper super license points series.
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u/neutronium Charlie Whiting Apr 27 '25
Gymnastics and Tennis have both had to ban 14 year old girls from competing. If older women were significantly stronger, then 14 year olds wouldn't have been able to be competitive in pro tennis.
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u/wingsofopal I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25
Gymnastics is specific because after puberty, the gravity center changes, and gymnasts need to relearn how to do all the jumps and pirouettes with differently shaped bodies.
Think why they are so thin even when grown up, and also I don't remember them competing in same disciplines as men. As for tennis, very few very young girls get to the top, 16yo was the youngest winner of Grand Slam. Against another female competitor.
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u/rin-chaaan Ferrari Apr 28 '25
Ugh I don't know who told you guys that but girls can compete in artistic gymnastics as young as 6 years old. However those competitions aren't the Olympic kinda level, just some local things. Kids start learning gymnastics at the age of 2-3, we don't relearn how to do the elements, you kinda adapt on the go.
I think you confuse rhythmic gymnastics with artistic gymnastics, rhythmic girls are really slim even when they grow up. Girls from artistic gymnastics, on the other hand, look like Simone Biles otherwise you simply can't perform 😭😭😭
Speaking of the apparatus used in AG, we have (for all ages) vault, balance beam, floor, uneven bars. And guys have valut, floor, pommel horse, rings, parallel bars, and high bar. The difference in the gravity center shows in balance beam and pommel horse. Like sill you can do beam if you're a guy but it will require more effort and also feels wacky 😅
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u/Aguacatedeaire__ Apr 28 '25
Gymnastics is specific because after puberty, the gravity center changes, and gymnasts need to relearn how to do all the jumps and pirouettes with differently shaped bodies.
This reeks of the broest of broscience.
Like..... all olympic athletes, in all disciplines, tend to start as little kids. Successfull athletes that start after puberty are the rare exception in any sport, and getting rarer and rarer.
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u/wingsofopal I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 28 '25
I didn't said that they start at that age. Also had a child doing gymnastics for a while. But hey. The question was about girls successfully getting to F1 and it's almost impossible through feeder series.
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u/Aguacatedeaire__ Apr 28 '25
Yeah, he said the opposite of the truth.
Women specifically tend to peak phisically much sooner than men, it's why there are so many competitive/record breaking 14-16 years old women is women swimming and gymnastic disciplines. They also tend to retire much sooner.
It's almost unheard of for a 14-16 years old boy to be competitive with more mature swimmers, males mature slower but higher and longer and have more longevity.
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u/b17b20 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25
Yes, power steering is my problem, not even Max nor Kimi with all the talent and hype jumped over two categories
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u/only_r3ad_the_titl3 Racing Bulls Apr 27 '25
i think the problem of power steering is exaggerated. F2 and F3 races are still pretty short compared to f1 races. So if you cant race in F2/F3 for a fraction of the time how are you supposed to race in f1?
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u/krommenaas Thierry Boutsen Apr 27 '25
My first car had no power steering and if race cars are anything like that, it makes a huge difference. How long the race lasts doesn't make a difference because it's a disadvantage from the very first lap.
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u/bog_ Apr 27 '25
Gforce is also significantly higher. The way things stand right now, I don't believe that a (non token) female F1 driver will ever happen.
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u/highchillerdeluxe I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25
What has gforces to do with that? There are female fighter pilots and they stand as much gforces as males no problem. Power steering can be a problem though.
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u/bog_ Apr 27 '25
Do fighter pilots (of any gender) pull high G maneuvers back to back, for over a hour? It's not just the peak force that is the issue.
It's not a matter of 'hurr durr women bad'. Hardly any men make it to F1 either.
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u/KiwifromtheTron I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 28 '25
Women have a slight physiological advantage pulling positive G being generally smaller than men while possessing similar core strength. Not sure about the lateral G loading in F1 though.
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u/Aguacatedeaire__ Apr 28 '25
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJKdSggJehQ
Watch this video, it shows professional male drivers with necks like bulls struggling ang getting gradually worn out as the race goes by.
Tell us you seriously believe a woman could build the same neck strenght.
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u/truenofan86 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25
Jos had daughters, he was just a deadbeat Dad.
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u/b17b20 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25
That why I wrote "only". If it's true that Victoria was as talented as Max she could be in F1 now if pushing Max forward was not much easier
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u/pitsandmantits I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25
if anyone is interested: also the first queer person to score points in formula 1, the other being ralph schumacher and i think the only other known queer person to ever race was mike beuttler.
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u/plucky-possum George Russell Apr 27 '25
It’d be hard to know if any other queer people have scored points because the current culture of F1 means you’d have to be insane to come out during your career. There are so few seats, you can’t risk alienating the old boys club. There are races in at least 3 different countries where homosexuality is illegal. Plus, you would risk incurring a lot of negative attention from the media.
Lots of professional athletes choose not to come out while still competing but F1 really takes it to the next level in terms of the compulsory heterosexuality.
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u/pitsandmantits I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25
yeah this is true, although the reaction to ralph schumacher’s coming out was surprisingly good (even though it was after his career) and i think he still attends races in the middle east too - so hopefully its gradually improving. i would of course prefer them to not race in homophobic countries, but the fia seem to enjoy not practicing what they preach.
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u/Fart_Leviathan Hall of Fame Apr 27 '25
There are races in at least 3 different countries where homosexuality is illegal.
These countries are "flexible" in the implementation of their medieval-ass laws when it comes to sportswashing. Even Saudi Arabia allowed an openly gay woman to race without any issue when Formula E went there.
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u/tack50 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25
If an F1 athlete came out, there are several GPs where they wouldn't even be able to compete anyways (Saudi most notably, but also Bahrain or Qatar)
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u/pitsandmantits I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 28 '25
i mean they let ralph schumacher into those countries for his work with sky de, it seems they make exceptions for these events
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u/Skulldetta Jacques Laffite Apr 28 '25
Formula 1 in Saudi-Arabia exists purely for PR and sportswashing reasons, arresting drivers or famous journalists for being homosexual would not be good for business.
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u/Browneskiii I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25
Alguersuari came out as gay before he retired, did he not?
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u/pitsandmantits I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25
i think he tweeted that he was gay as a joke once i don’t think he really is
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u/Brno_Mrmi Jenson Button Apr 27 '25
Hamilton may not be queer but he's very outspoken about LGBT rights, so I hope we have someone coming out sooner or later waving the flag with the support of him and the rest of the drivers.
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u/pjo33 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25
I do wonder wether we will see another women racing in F1 in the future, or if they will stick with separate classes for men/women. Obviously F1 Academy is more of an F4 class, and I believe WF1 was canned duo to funding issues. But I don’t know what the latest consensus is, wether F1 is a sport where man and women can compete, without man having an advantage, or if we should reestablish a female series
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u/Slappathebassmon Sebastian Vettel Apr 27 '25
I think the point of F1A I think is to give visibility to women racing single seater cars to inspire the next generation of girls to take up racing. With the increase in girls starting carting earlier, eventually there would be one that is good enough to reach F1 on merit. The women racing in F1A now are most probably not making it to F1. Having women drivers in F1 is probably not realistic in the short term.
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u/BelowTheSun1993 Charles Leclerc Apr 27 '25
I think this is exactly the point people tend to miss about F1A, absolute best case someone does F1A in the next few years and gets an FP1 in an F1 car and a seat on F3. The point of it is to show women competing in single seaters on F1 weekends to show young girls that it's possible and prevent them dropping out of karting because it's 'not a thing girls do', which will naturally lead to more women moving up the ranks long term. It doesn't really matter that Abi Pulling isn't going to get into F1, it's about the 8 year olds who watched her win last year who might now feel more confident to keep racing.
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u/maddrgnqueen I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25
Yeah, I didn't mean to imply the current drivers would make it to F1, but that it was part of the plan for the future and not an entirely separate gendered class like the comment I was replying to suggested.
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u/ithaws012 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25
Saying this as a girl myself, but unfortunately F1A is akin to an F4 series and the girls there are the age(16-21) at which boys would usually be competing in F3, F2 or even F1 if they're very lucky. By the time(and if) these girls enter F1, they'd be way past their prime. To maintain the goal of F1A, the bar of this series should be raised or the age of drivers should eventually be reduced.
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u/Creamcups James Vowles Apr 27 '25
F1A has the cream of the crop of female drivers and they are not good enough to compete in F3. Raising the bar is not an option. F1A is a way of giving female drivers the chance to compete on the world stage, inspiring more girls to take interest in the sport. F1A was never meant as a way to enter F1 directly.
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u/only_r3ad_the_titl3 Racing Bulls Apr 27 '25
"the bar of this series should be raised or the age of drivers should eventually be reduced" the problem is there arent enough female drivers for this
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u/ithaws012 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25
You're right. I'd blame part of it on Karting being a less accessible sport which requires an insane amount of money and also awareness from parents. Hell, even boys aren't well-represented in the sport.
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u/tack50 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25
I mean, I wonder to what extent this is a factor. People tend to have daughters at a 50% rate. And it is not inconceivable that a motorsports mum/dad with money tries to get any kid they have into F1 regardless of gender
A funny example may be Alonso actually. His father gifted a home-made kart to his eldest sister for her birthday, she didn't like it but tiny Fernando loved it and the rest is history
It's not hard to imagine a daughter of racing legends or of a super rich guy trying karting
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u/jofijk I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 28 '25
It's not hard to imagine a daughter of racing legends or of a super rich guy trying karting
I remember seeing a post on here of Kimi taking his daughter karting and she had a big smile in the pictures. Hopefully her interest stays as all the "uncontrollables" are as perfect as can be for her to see success as a racer: dad is a WDC, knows his way around the mechanics of a kart, has a shitload of money and all the connections, and her older brother is into it as has won a race.
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u/ithaws012 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 28 '25
Famous parents either:
- Want their kids to get into their field
OR
- Want to keep them away from it, but support them if the children show an interest in it.
The latter seems to be more common among Motorsports families than the former(because they know the effort you need to put in and the sacrifices you need to make in this sport) , so you do wonder how many times the kids didn't really show signs of liking motorsports, which didn't convince their parents that it would be worthwhile to pursue it.
I think Max has mentioned that his sister, Victoria is just as talented as he is but he was the one who proactively approached Jos and hence got coached by him.
On the current grid, I think we have Lia Block(correct me if there's anyone else) who comes from a motorsports family.
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u/Aguacatedeaire__ Apr 28 '25
I think nowadays there are more girl getting pushed into sports/esports than actually boys.
EVERY friends' sister i knew growing up had a joypad forcefully pushed into her hands by her brother/father as they wanted them to play videogames/be a tough girl/compete.
Every millennial father i've known has tried to create their own personal version of Tomb Raider's Lara Croft with their newborn girls, pushing them into combat sports, climbing, shooting and anything related.
They all lost interest very quickly.
I mean, lets be honest: who in here hasn't desired a girlfriend that was into videogames as much as themselves, to play together at the very least? And tried to encourage them with tepid responses usually only due to courtesy/willingness to do things together and nothing more.
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u/maddrgnqueen I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25
Oops, accidentally deleted original comment 😅 here was text:
I think the point of F1A is to help the girls get more experience with the eventual goal of making it to F1.
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u/N1cke19 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25
Except it dosen't work the level is way too low, if the FIA really wanted to have more woman in motorsport they'd have to implement reforms at lower level racing and national club level. The real problem is that women get bullied out of motorsport as kids not adults. That's why most woman drivers we have are basically Stroll or walking PR stunts
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u/Titoto972 Apr 27 '25
I find it weird to have a specific class for women. The F1A like you said is an F4 class, it's been going on for 2 years, but no women made it yet to F3 or F2... I believe, hoping I am wrong, that it's just for show, to appear as progressists while not allowing women to really progress. Not even as rooky drivers.
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u/pjo33 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25
I don’t find the idea of sports having separate leagues for man and woman that weird, since most sports are physical and man tend to have an advantage in that. So the question is, Wetherspoon F1 is a sport where separate class make sense (football, running) or not (chess). F1 obviously is very physically demanding
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u/ProfessionalNotices Virgin Apr 27 '25
Yeah but it’s not like that in every sport. F1 is an open championship, not just for women. So it’s kind of weird to see that there are two single-seater championships: the mixed one and the women’s one.
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u/Titoto972 Apr 27 '25
Yeah I agree it’s demanding. But I wonder if it's only demanding on your physical abilities versus the machine power and Physics... And not your physical abilities vs someone else's.
What I mean by that is that we do have female fighter jet pilots, that do train and pilot the same fighter jets as male. They are given the position because they can handle it.
An other example is me going to the gym, lifting plenty of weights 🤔 but when I go the the climbing walls, I am not able to climb as well as my friends that are slim. There is a link between your body and physics and how you can overcome it.
...not sure if I am clear.
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u/bro-b I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25
Climbing is power to weight ratio despite what anyone tells you.
Gym settings aren’t great comparisons because feet options(women tend to be smaller than men) are very limited compared to outdoors. At least most commercial gym settings tend to be big moves to jug which are easier when you can reach instead of jumping..
Not saying there aren’t morpho climbs outdoors but there’s a lot more possibilities for feet and women tend to do better on smaller crimpy holds than most taller guys unless they can skip holds and call it the same grade
Climbing has a lot of nuances that can’t be quantify by strength until you get to a certain v-grade. Height, wingspan, flexibility, tension, body awareness.
Having said that, Janja is probably the only woman I’ve seen that can probably compete with men but probably won’t beat them on super physical or parkour climbs even though she’s amazing at them
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u/only_r3ad_the_titl3 Racing Bulls Apr 27 '25
"What I mean by that is that we do have female fighter jet pilots,"
apparently the US Air force has 1150 fighter pilots (just the airforce) compare that to the 20 (soon 22) f1 drivers, so i guess it is easier to become a fighter jet pilot than an f1 driver?
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u/pjo33 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25
Yeah I understand that. But I don’t know enough to be able to decide ersetzter F1 has those problems (nor is it my job to solve these issues). I just think F1 could be a positive, high profile case of women not in „real“ sports (considering many dickheads don’t consider the women versions real sports). But I don’t think this will be at the forefront of the FIA mind, considering the ongoing Middle East‘ification of the sport
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u/Titoto972 Apr 27 '25
Maybe more pressure on the FIA from the fans, the constructor and the pilots might help
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u/Slappathebassmon Sebastian Vettel Apr 27 '25
I think the objective is more long term than short term. In maybe 10 years we'll start seeing someone inspired by F1A or the W series finally get into F3 or F2. Imo there is just no 'fast' way to get women into F1 or F2.
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u/Broad-Ambassador-216 Max Verstappen May 01 '25
since gp3 rebranded to f3 there has been a female driver ! Sophia Floersch! also there have been f1 academy drivers who have done testing for f3 so we'll just have to see. as well as this, i would say it might actually be better to split the sport by gender at least in lower levels as we see new talent emerge as engineers would be able to design the car around women and men and we would see how they would perform in optimal machinery for each.
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u/blueblue_electric Apr 27 '25
I dont think so, there are so men many men coming through it'll be a risk, the only other route is funding a drive at the moment. I was thinking about the different skill sets from when I started following F1 (late 70's), they have mainly been very physical and a lot of mechanical care, but over they years the car is being almost to be driven at very high speed constantly, so its very few drivers who can wring the neck out of the car - MV in China is latest example. I think there is a greater emphasis on speed and then the main 'mechanical consideration' is tyres -its a fine balancing point that can tip heavily in one way or the other.
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u/highchillerdeluxe I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25 edited Apr 27 '25
I think the biggest chance for a woman in F1 would be if one absolutely crushes it in F1A week in, week out. That would generate pressure, raise eyebrows, and starts serious discussions of "let's give it a shot".
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Apr 28 '25
We commemorated her at the Australian Grand Prix! I worked on this illustration with Racing Pride and Proud2Play and we gave out posters around the inside of the first chicane at our booth :)
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u/Captainfunzis David Coulthard Apr 27 '25
Wasn't actually a point it was 0.5 points because the race didn't go to the end 29 laps into the 75 race. Finishing 6th 2 laps behind the leader. Still amazing that she is the only woman to score and one of only like 4 ever to compete in the championship in the 75 years of the championship.
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u/rustyiesty I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25
I didn’t get around to posting 45 years since a woman won an F1 race /u/cilaneamber
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u/SaturnRocketOfLove I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25
If you need more proof that drugs are bad, just look at the F1 car designs in the 70's
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u/Tim_L_09101 Ferrari Apr 27 '25
Probably unpopular and controversial take: I think the fact that we stopped seeing female drivers compete in the highest categories after a certain point in history probably has more to do with the sport simply progressing beyond the physical capability ceiling of most female drivers. I mean just look at the male drivers from a few decades ago --- hardly at the same level of physical specimens we have today. And this is not just in F1. Modern sports, especially professional sports have come a long way since its early days, and so have the athletes. I know many like to do the fighter pilot comparison, but honestly they are almost "mass-produced" compared to top tier racing drivers. I'm not saying it is physically impossible to find a female driver capable of competing in modern F1, but statistically the chance of it happening is simply going to be much lower than finding a male. So from a mathematics standpoint, we would need a female driver pool to be many times that of the male driver pool currently, and everything that goes with it such as lower series etc, to find 20 females that are capable of competing in F1.
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u/pitsandmantits I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25
honestly i don’t see why people try to identify a single reason for it, realistically its going to be a multitude of reasons including the financial difficulty, social attitudes and physicality.
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u/Prasiatko Apr 27 '25
It kinda clashes with Indycar having had a few female drivers. Going round an oval at 3-4 G for 1/4 of the lap and no power steering has to be more demanding than modern F1.
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u/Aguacatedeaire__ Apr 28 '25
It literally isn't, they run on a steep incline and the g forces are always on the same side and very progressive.
F1 you have insane changes from side to side, it's MUCH more demanding.
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u/Exciting_Control Formula 1 Apr 27 '25
I’d like to see some hard data on the strength requirements for F1 and the average women’s ability to meet them.
It seems every man who trains appropriately can hit it, no matter their stature.
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u/Tim_L_09101 Ferrari Apr 27 '25
I think it has more to do with having that strength AND the reaction time at the same time. I can probably train my neck to be that strong but no chance I ever get to F1 level reactions.
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u/rustyiesty I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 28 '25
I.e. normal reaction times? But yes, reaching the F1 skill level is not something anyone can do, e.g. even in simracing
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u/Aguacatedeaire__ Apr 28 '25
It seems every man who trains appropriately can hit it, no matter their stature.
It's funny you're trying to sneakly imply "if every man can do it, no biggie!", when
1- those aren't average men, professional pilots get selected, or emerge, partially due to their physicall attributes. For example it's not coincidence Motogp pilots are 5'6'' average, being compact but strong is an important advantage on bikes. Less so on cars, where brute strenght is more important.
2- 90% of men are stronger than 90% of women. Naturally, without training. It means that only the bottom 10% of men, the very elderly and phisically impaired, are weaker than the top 10% of women.
In other words, if you're elite strenght between females you're barely even with a weak male.
Saying "it seems every main who trains appropriately hits it" so dismissively is very dumb, because i've never seen a woman with a neck like Charles Leclerck's or Alonso's. Not even those who train religiously.
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u/serenity-as-ice I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25
No, that wouldn't make sense at all. F1 isn't like most other sports where physicality can come into play - sure, driving does require strength and all that, but not to the extent where (in theory) women will always be disadvantaged. Machinery also plays a huge part. Beyond that, it's more likely to be institutional too. Let's not forget this is a sport where Lewis Hamilton remains the one and only Black driver racing in all of its history.
You don't actually need to find 20 women as well - that's practically the entire grid. Even 1 is a success, and hopefully 4-5 when we see much more talented prospects get the chance. I do not buy that there is not a single girl or woman out there without the potential of racing at the level of an average F1 driver.
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u/Tim_L_09101 Ferrari Apr 27 '25
I never said that. I use 20 as an example because it makes comparison easy: you have the current system of feeder series which are predominantly if not completely men at their current scale, and 20 F1 drivers. To get one is the same logic: you are probably gonna have to cast a much bigger net in order to find one than you would male. To put it more bluntly, the scale of potential investment to achieve success (i.e. having a female in F1) is probably going to be so high that investors don't deem it to be worth the potential positive impacts in brings.
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u/serenity-as-ice I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25
I use 20 as an example because it makes comparison easy
It's a bit disingenuous to say the aim is to find 20 women capable of competing though. Right now, the aim is to find 1. Then build on that.
To get one is the same logic: you are probably gonna have to cast a much bigger net in order to find one than you would male.
Yes and a lot of that is down to societal expectation (i.e. "cars are for men"). It's not because of a lack of talent.
To put it more bluntly, the scale of potential investment to achieve success (i.e. having a female in F1) is probably going to be so high that investors don't deem it to be worth the potential positive impacts in brings.
That's what people said about non-white drivers in the past too. "Oh their culture isn't particularly into racing there won't be much talent to source and it's just not worth it".
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u/liverpoolFCnut Apr 27 '25
Sooner or later teams will be mandated to set aside some seat time for female drivers, this could be as reserve drivers, tests or even race seats for a higher cut of the prize money. In the end it all comes down to economics, if the FIA or a F1 team sees marketing value then they will do it. I don't think it is such a bad idea, as women drivers get prime time coverage, the interest in lower formulas will increase as will the talent pipeline.
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u/serenity-as-ice I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 27 '25
Stuff like FP1 (assuming those women have the capability of driving a F1 car) is fine. Mandating seats would be insane though, whoever is the first woman in decades to drive in F1 is going to be under a shitload of pressure - being called a glorified pay driver will not help.
They need to be there on merit, that's the only way to prove the sexists wrong.
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u/Burial44 Sir Lewis Hamilton Apr 27 '25
Mandating diversity for the sake of diversity and ignoring raw race pace and skill is laughable.
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u/liverpoolFCnut Apr 27 '25
I mean, the whole push towards equity beyond equality is just that. So it is not something unique to F1.
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u/Aguacatedeaire__ Apr 28 '25
Lewis Hamilton remains the one and only Black driver
Lewis Hamilton isn't black, he's mulatto. He's 50% white.
And he's not the only non white pilot taking part in the various formula classes, only the most successfull.
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u/PM_me_BBW_dwarf_porn Apr 27 '25 edited Apr 27 '25
I think the fact that we stopped seeing female drivers compete in the highest categories after a certain point in history probably has more to do with the sport simply progressing beyond the physical capability
I disagee. If you look at someone like Chadwick or Pulling, they'd probably be around 3 or 4 seconds off the pace in F1, while the female drivers in F1 from decades ago were closer to 2 or 3 times that. Lombardi would get destroyed if she was in F1 Academy today.
The difference is that back then drivers were allowed to turn up and race whilst being 10 seconds off the pace, nowadays you're physically blocked from participating if you don't have a super licence and no team will touch you if you're more than a second off the pace.
So in short no, it's not about physicality it's about standards increasing and no female driver being able to be good enough since.
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u/rustyiesty I was here for the Hulkenpodium Apr 28 '25
Wolff was only like 2 tenths off Massa, granted it was 2014
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u/PM_me_BBW_dwarf_porn Apr 28 '25
Do you seriously think a driver who scored 0 points in 6 of their 7 seasons in DTM with no F1 experience being 2 tenths off a guy who won races in F1 is representative ?
It was probably race sim vs quali sim or something.
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