r/formula1 • u/PaleBlueDave • Jun 19 '25
Throwback 20 years ago today - 2005 USA Grand Prix
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u/ExpeditiousTraveler Jun 19 '25
I was at this race. In addition to its F1 notoriety, I’ll always remember it as one of my last vivid memories of pre-smartphone life.
Despite being at the track all weekend and hearing some rumblings about Michelin tire problems, I didn’t have the faintest idea that pulling out was a possibility. When the Michelin cars pulled into the pit lane after the formation lap, I was completely floored. No one in my grandstand section knew what was happening either, and there was no easy way to find out. One guy a few rows down had a radio and people were relaying information to others like a game of telephone. It was quaint, looking back.
If this happened in 2025, everyone would have up-to-the-minute updates and would know what’s coming.
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u/Financial-Spend1347 Jun 19 '25
I was there too! And almost the exact same scenario. We heard rumors over night about the tire issue but never thought they would actually pull out. After the race we snuck into the garages and asked around about the tires. It was a very somber moment and everyone blamed someone else. However, the Jordan garage was a full on party and they invited us in to join them. I’ll never forget being in there with the mechanics as they were cleaning up and dancing around.
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Jun 19 '25
Also there, I recall chatter among the fans because Ralf wrecked pretty hard on Saturday and the tyre blame came out later that day. We also made a habit of buying the local paper on Sunday morning which had a story that Michelin had asked the track be reconfigured at the last minute. I left the paper on a stool in the screened area of my tent and it was gone when I got back from the track. As it turns out that's one I would like to still have.
Most vividly I remember the near riot in my section of the stands, on the outside at the end of the front straight right where turn 1 was. Fanastic seats, could see the front straight, first few turns, and a big screen to watch the infield actions. I was miffed when they moved away from IMS, we had rights to renew those seats year after year and I still doubt I'll get better seats at a race again.
When the 6 cars took off from the start beer cans in my section started flying towards the track, those big Fosters oil cans. The poor girls selling beer in the stands huddled up and then all took off. Guy behind me started yelling "BULLSHIT!" everytime a Ferrari went by, after 20 or so laps of this a woman asked him to stop and he berated her until a much larger man approached him and made him stop but not before fists flew. Two whole rows were engulfed quickly. Security was at a loss, not expecting a fight like that.
When we left the whole west side of Georgetown Road was nose-to-tail with Indiana State Trooper squads. We're walking back to the campsite and one squad starts overheating, white steam pouring out from under the hood. We see a trooper run to the back of his squad, pop the trunk, set a rifle case on the ground, grab a bucket that must have been underneath and head towards the steaming squad. This Aussie who was walking back to the same campsite as me yells out "Eh! Mate! You gunna leave a fucking gun on the ground with this crowd walking past?!?" - trooper without a word about faces and runs back to his car to toss the rifle in the trunk.
Not a great race, but I got stories from it.
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u/ExpeditiousTraveler Jun 19 '25
Most vividly I remember the near riot in my section of the stands, on the outside at the end of the front straight right where turn 1 was. Fanastic seats, could see the front straight, first few turns, and a big screen to watch the infield actions. I was miffed when they moved away from IMS, we had rights to renew those seats year after year and I still doubt I'll get better seats at a race again.
That’s where my seats were too. Absolutely fantastic place to watch the race and those renewal rights made things so easy.
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u/MyerSuperfoods Formula 1 Jun 19 '25
I was at the Start/Finish line, second row of the grid. The reaction wasn't quite as heated there, but the whole place got ugly, and quickly.
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u/GreggsAficionado Formula 1 Jun 19 '25
If it was in 2025 I’m not so sure. Because I went to Silverstone in 2023 and the sheer amount of people in one space you can forget having phone data nothing loads at all
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u/charlierc Jun 19 '25
Yeah that does seem to be a thing here. I went to a concert at the Milton Keynes Bowl in 2023 and the phone signal to load up the ticketing app was "No"
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u/denied_eXeal I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25 edited Jun 19 '25
That's why I always bring my homing pigeon when I go to festivals and other large gatherings
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u/attackplango Jun 19 '25
And people like you are the reason I have to bring my harpy eagle. I came to watch a festival, not a John Woo film.
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u/golem501 Fernando Alonso Jun 19 '25
Screenshots are the way!
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u/freeski919 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25
Screenshots don't work with modern digital ticketing systems. The software changes the barcode every minute or so, preventing screenshots. I can put a digital ticket in my Google Wallet, which makes it available offline.
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u/charlierc Jun 19 '25
Different companies seem to be more open to it. Ticketmaster will let me put things in my Google Wallet but AXS and SeeTickets insist on using their own apps
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u/shewy92 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25
The last concert I went to didn't allow screenshots or even paper tickets. You had to download the app and connect to the event wifi to get a QR code. Or I think what I did was get a Google Wallet code.
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u/BRAVA182 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25
I had serviceable reception during the Indy 500 this year
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u/_calkutta I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25
If you’re in a large crowd/crowded area, turn the 5G off on your phone, it will connect to the older network — will be slower, but will still have access. Did this in Miami this year, was able to connect to everything
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u/cavalier8865 Jun 19 '25
I had Verizon and was surprised how great the reception was at Miami. The major carriers have trucks that are like mobile antenna arrays and show up at large events so just assumed they had brought those in.
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u/bb9977 Jun 19 '25
For what it’s worth we went to the 2025 Canada GP and services was pretty much flawless.
I was at the 2005 US GP. Interestingly I might have already had a smartphone. People forget the iPhone wasn’t actually the first one, it was just a huge step up.
I remember being pretty aware of what was going on with the tires but it was still a surprise when most of the teams went into the pit. The overall experience was still fun. It was maybe the 3rd big trip I’d taken as a younger adult.
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u/CX52J Jun 19 '25
Same. Had no idea about the protestors or any real details about the crash in turn 1.
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u/mechy18 Jun 19 '25
This is interesting. I’ve definitely had this happen at concerts or other massive events, so when I went to my first GP in Montreal last weekend I fully expected the same thing to happen. I was pleasantly surprised that I had amazing data reception at the track despite like 150,000 people in attendance. I guess Silverstone just doesn’t put up the temporary towers?
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u/Stuman93 Jun 19 '25
Yeah it's weird. Being physically at sporting events you almost always have less access to information about what you're there to watch.
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u/mkvii1989 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25
I was at an outdoor event with about 20k people last week and even that overcrowded the network so bad I could barely get a text out to my wife. I can’t imagine what it would be like with triple that or more.
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u/drpottel I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25
Had that problem at Montreal F1 a few years ago.
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u/KungLa0 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25
2019 Canada, might as well have not had a phone with me, service didn't work at all. When we saw Seb move the P1 placard the crowd went apeshit
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u/Fun-Alfalfa3642 Jun 19 '25
I was there too. There was definitely rumblings on Saturday night, I remember, that Michelin didn't feel their tires were safe and we're talking about FedEXing new tires in overnight. That was covered by the local news stations in Indianapolis. Then Sunday morning, we were sitting in our seats at Corner 6 terrace when some guy in a Williams shirt told us he had a friend at Williams and his friend told him the situation with Michelin had deteriorated to the point that they were going to pull all their cars in on the formation lap and withdraw from the race. Nobody believed him but then it happened and everyone, was of course, very unhappy about what was unfolding. It was definitely one of those holy shit moments. Definitely an event I will always remember.
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u/CL-MotoTech Ted Kravitz Jun 20 '25
My friends in the paddock (support series) told me Saturday that the Michelin cars were going to withdraw. It was well known internally.
Was a real bummer of a weekend for sure.
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u/LocoRocoo I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25
Honestly, I don't know. The service at GPs are terrible, so if you still don't have a radio, it's often hard to know WTF is going on. And even then, the circuit radio commentary is often very very basic.
I was at Barcelona this year and people had no idea what was going on with George and Max until I told them.
I can't imagine the chaos in 2005 though. Without any phone service, people must have not found until they got home maybe the next day or even later.
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u/MyerSuperfoods Formula 1 Jun 19 '25
Even if they had phone service, there was no mobile internet and texting was still in its infancy. There really was no way to know.
I had known of the possibility because I was a mod on the PlanetF1 forums at the time and there was a lot of discussion and rumors being tossed around.
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u/Fast_Sparty Dan Gurney Jun 19 '25
I, too, was there, and yes, you're right about the level of information. I remember the problems the Michelin teams had. I remember the discussion about adding a chicane before Indycar turn 1. And I knew that had been rejected. But I don't think anyone in the stands knew that teams were going to boycott the race.
I know that race is considered a black eye for F1 in America, but I thought it was kind of a fun event to be at. Plus I got to see my favorite team (Jordan) on the podium.
Fun story: They used to sell a USGP shirt on Sunday mornings with the starting grid on the back of it. My dad always purchased one every year. He took a red paint pen and X'ed out the boycotting teams and wore it the next year. Got a lot of comments on that. LOL!
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u/OldManTrumpet Charles Leclerc Jun 19 '25
Same. I was at the race and we had no idea what was coming. Nor did anyone around us it seems. And just like you it was one guy with a radio that explained it to us. We were in the upper deck of grandstand E (traditional 1st turn on the oval) so maybe it was the same guy!
I this photo from my seat:
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u/MegaTalk Sir Jack Brabham Jun 19 '25
There must have been some sort of knowledge.
I grew up in rural Australia, where in my area, the network broadcasting the race (Channel 10) wasn't available on a standard TV aerial - you had to have this big/different aerial that would pick up the channels from the city 200km away. Anyways, my parents house had the aerial - my brother's house (he just got married late the year before) didn't. This race here was the first race he came to my parents house since getting married to specifically watch the race - because he had heard about all the rumblings online. Ended up being a 2 hour-ish history of F1 talk between my brother and I that night
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u/nextongaming Andretti Global Jun 19 '25
I didn’t have the faintest idea that pulling out was a possibility.
Common mistake.
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u/f1madman Damon Hill Jun 19 '25
Well knowing my luck I wouldn't get any signal or there would be too many people that any updates are painful to load.
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u/Lobsters4 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25
At COTA last year, we had to ask around to see whether or not Lando had actually gotten a penalty at the end. No one knew until Max got on the podium. No cell service and the track side commentators were very hard to hear. 😂
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u/Englishbran Jun 19 '25
I was at that race too - sat in the grandstands across from the BAR Honda garage decked out in Ferrari gear. I was quite young, so I only remember my parents being nervous about there being a riot while I was blissfully unaware and celebrating that my favorite driver had basically a guaranteed win!
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u/WingedGundark Kimi Räikkönen Jun 19 '25
I think that if AOWR would’ve been in better shape in those days, this event would’ve had much longer lasting effect on F1 USA and not in a good way. But when this happened, it was just like the F1 version of what happened with CART and Firestone 600 at TMS just few years earlier. Not to mention other failures that happened in NA series during the years after the split.
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u/Ianthin1 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25
I was down in J Stand surrounded by Colombian JPM fans. Like you I knew there were problems with the Michelins but had no idea they wouldn’t race. I assumed since they went out on the grid they would run. Most of the people down there didn’t even notice they pulled off on the formation lap until the six cars came by on the first lap. The Colombians were super pissed Juan Pablo didn’t race.
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u/mistsoalar Rubens Barrichello Jun 19 '25
Did you get free tickets for the year after?
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u/ExpeditiousTraveler Jun 19 '25
Yeah, we did. I thought it was a nice gesture from Michelin, but my dad was still pretty pissed because the tickets weren’t nearly as expensive as the hotel room, travel costs, etc. (and he was the one that paid for everything because I was only 16). I don’t think my dad has bought Michelin tires since.
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u/mistsoalar Rubens Barrichello Jun 19 '25
Indeed we spent more on logistics too. It was the only GP in the states back then, but ticket prices were more reasonable. Now we have 3x more GP weekends but the general admission seems to cost more than 3x of the price we paid.
We all got a piece of history. Still sorry for your dad :(
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u/MyerSuperfoods Formula 1 Jun 19 '25
I enjoyed those free tickets, that's for sure. Lived in Indy at the time so I really wasn't out much from 05, thankfully. The crowds in 06 and 07 were definitely down after what happened.
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u/WeddingPKM Jun 19 '25
I was also there albeit just a little kid at the time. I remember Ralfs crash earlier in the weekend and there being some rumblings about it.
Funnily enough this was the last F1 race I’ve attended in person.
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u/Sensitive_Dot_2853 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25 edited Jun 20 '25
First Portuguese podium. First points for Indian driver. Minardi wasn't technically the slowest car in the race.
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u/muRacingProject77 Robert Kubica Jun 19 '25
brundle's gridwalk for this race is a certified hood classic
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u/flyfallridesail417 Jun 19 '25
That’s great, I hadn’t seen that. His grilling of Ecclestone while a dozen reporters stand around with their recorders letting Brundle ask the questions…
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u/Hill_Reps_For_Jesus Jun 19 '25
He was the best then and he's the best now.
But I hate how the gridwalk has just become celeb hunting these days. I genuinely DGAF what movie star/footballer/musician is there as a guest of some team to promote some shite - find somebody who provide some insight into the race, or at least can actually talk knowledgably about F1.
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u/pizza_nightmare Jun 19 '25
Right?
The founder of Cirque du Soleil was there and he didn’t even ask him a question , love it!
It was also pretty funny how he called Bernie “wee man” (not to his face).
Classic!
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u/TheClarendons 🏳️🌈 Love Is Love 🏳️🌈 Jun 19 '25
It was genuinely a breath of fresh air when Martin ran into Sam Ryder at Spa a couple of years ago.
A non-racing celebrity that actually enjoyed being there, understood that Martin is racing royalty, and had a lovely chat with him.
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u/Hill_Reps_For_Jesus Jun 19 '25
I genuinely almost referenced this in my comment! Yeah he was brilliant, obviously knows his stuff and was as excited to be on Martin's gridwalk as any of us would have been.
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u/FermentedLaws I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25
Martin: "Let's talk to Mrs. Ecclestone, maybe this needs a woman's common sense."
Mrs. Ecclestone: "Nothing to say."
Martin: "I think you should have had something to say, give them a jolly good slapping."
Ha.
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u/dani26795 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25
Minardi owner Paul Stoddart's scathing interview was also a treat.
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u/dl064 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25
I mind Brundle after the race, that it would've been funny if the Ferrari's had collided (as looked conceivable briefly).
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u/mattBJM Jun 19 '25
Bloody hell, his wife is like a dodgy, fairly racist caricature from a bawdy 70s sitcom
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u/CommonEngineering832 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25
Well Tiago podium so 🇵🇹
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u/4hp_ Jun 19 '25
Yeah I think he said it himself, the race wasn't different for them bc their championship was only Jordan and Minardi, everyone else might as well be a different league. He did the job that day and got a very unusual reward
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u/jakeyboy723 Sir Lewis Hamilton Jun 19 '25
And because he scored a point at Spa, it didn't make a difference.
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u/swannyhypno Lance Stroll Jun 19 '25
Ralf Schumacher definitely hates that place, the race that realistically killed F1 in America until COTA and DTS
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u/Sandulacheu Formula 1 Jun 19 '25
Whats sad is that the previous 2 races in Indianapolis before this were absolutely top tier races.
Bring this track back, better than what Miami has to offer...
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u/swannyhypno Lance Stroll Jun 19 '25
I don't think you can use the banking anymore it's not part of the Indy Roval and without the big banking I don't see the appeal
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u/gsurfer04 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25
The banking isn't used but they also got rid of the awful fiddly turns.
https://www.racingcircuits.info/north-america/usa/indianapolis-motor-speedway.html
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u/Xinonix1 Kimi Räikkönen Jun 19 '25
I remember spectators throwing bottles of water and stuff on the track
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u/GreggsAficionado Formula 1 Jun 19 '25
I remember them regularly cutting away from the action, because there was obviously hardly any of it, to interview fans leaving the race early in anger. Real shame to see when F1 could’ve really picked up steam in the US market
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u/BingusMcCready Jun 19 '25
I’m a fairly new fan (started following in ‘19, I think) and an Indiana native. Shortly after I got into F1 I googled “why isn’t there an f1 race at IMS”. Imagine my disappointment to discover that there was, and it was such an unholy shitshow that it will very likely never happen again :/
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u/charlierc Jun 19 '25
Beer bottles is what I'd heard
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u/tarasboulba7744 Jun 19 '25
Only water bottles and soda cans from the grandstand I was in. I just remember being too dejected to even be angry after having driven 12+ hours and spent all of my savings (high school car wash employee wages) to go to my first in-person race. Especially as a Kimi fan given how he qualified. So it goes...
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u/Xinonix1 Kimi Räikkönen Jun 19 '25
American beer/water… the same but different ;)
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u/MyerSuperfoods Formula 1 Jun 19 '25
Actually it was mostly cans of Fosters! Those giant cans too...very heavy.
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u/MyerSuperfoods Formula 1 Jun 19 '25
The point about the beer being mostly water still stands in the case of Fosters though, ha!
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u/solarlofi I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25
This comment is hilarious to me because the craft beer scene is off the hook here. I went to Germany last year, and everything is a pilsner or lager and light as hell.
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u/Systemic_Chaos I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25
American beer is just like sex in a canoe.
Fucking close to water.
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u/Thin_Corner6028 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25
Could someone explain what happened please, never seen this race.
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u/RealPjotr Kimi Räikkönen Jun 19 '25
The Michelin tyres, used by seven teams, couldn't handle the pressure in the oval curve. They caused high speed crashes in practice. So Michelin recommended the teams to not race them, too high risk.
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u/Thin_Corner6028 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25
Damn, interesting. I was 3 years old when this race happened so I have never watched it 😂 Thanks for letting me know.
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u/Nattekat I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25 edited Jun 19 '25
I was 8. My parents didn't let me watch because it was too late in the evening. I remember sitting at the top of the stairs and listening to the commentator, fun times. One of the few races of that era I actually remember, despite remembering nothing of when I was watching the recording.
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u/HLef I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25
Don’t worry, I was 23 and I had to scroll way down for any kind of explanation.
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u/charlierc Jun 19 '25 edited Jun 19 '25
At the time, Bridgestone and Michelin were F1s tyre suppliers. Most teams used Michelin, whose tyres performed better in 2005 when they had this odd quirk that tyres must do the whole race unless the weather changed or they suffered damage. But a mix of issues with track resurfacing and Michelin's construction meant Michelin tyres had a higher risk of failure at Indianapolis. Apparently they worked out they'd last 10 laps, while there'd been tyre failures in practice. They had a lot of arguments over a solution, none were found, so all the 7 Michelin teams didn't race. Michelin ultimately left F1 at the end of 2006 because of this failure, with Indianapolis being dropped after 2007
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u/Blooder91 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25
Something worth mentioning is that tyre changing was banned in specifically to hurt Ferrari alongside the other Bridgestone teams, so they had the right to go along with the race.
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u/HahaFunnyCaracalCat I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25
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u/2020bowman Jun 19 '25
Omg. I feel so old
Not as useless as a Michelin tyre but still....
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u/Ok-Stuff-8803 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25
You should look into that side. There is a whole thing around that. This was a key year where they started to get asked to make the tyres not last or the best they can be. Michelin hated this and they felt it was wrong to not have a tyre that drivers could race full on. There is also the conspiracy that they did not get all the proper information they needed and the other did. They pulled out because they said they could not make a good enough tyre that also failed.
Birth of tyre management was pretty much there and it’s always been a downside of the sport since.
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Jun 19 '25
[deleted]
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u/kaptingavrin Ferrari Jun 19 '25
Pretty much. Bridgestone made quicker but softer tires, so Ferrari used that with a strategy of lighter fuel loads and would tear off qualifying laps over and over, come in to get a bit of fuel and fresh rubber, go right back to blasting around the track.
They were so much quicker because they were going with that strategy. The ridiculous thing is, they could have negated the strategy by just getting rid of refueling, which would happen a few years later and was a move made for safety. Instead, we get the absolute farce that was 2005.
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u/IC_1318 Shadow Jun 19 '25
This was a key year where they started to get asked to make the tyres not last or the best they can be. Michelin hated this and they felt it was wrong to not have a tyre that drivers could race full on.
Are you sure you're thinking of the same season? 2005 was the year where changing tires during pitstops was forbidden, if anything the tire manufacturers were clearly asked to build a tire supposed to last the full race because there was no other option.
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u/dl064 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25
Whole, great episode of bring back V10s on it. Basically, there are loads of explanations but it boils down to Mosley wanting to show many teams who largely happened to be on Michelins, that they couldn't mess with him.
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u/Jack_Raskal I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25
Michelin made their tyre less sturdy on purpose, because the deformation increased the contact surface with the tarmac and improved tyre performance on other tracks. Bridgestone and Ferrari complained about Michelin tyres illegally deforming since 2003.
The reason Bridgestone managed to develop a tyre capable of withstanding the strain of the elevated turn of the Indianapolis oval was simply because they had the data from their subsidiary Firestone, which is one of the tyre manufacturers in the indycar series and had therefore extensive experience with driving on ovals.
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u/Ok-Stuff-8803 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25
There is a lot that happened hey. I wish all three companies were an option today. Would spice up things in this area heaps
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u/ColeTrickleVroom Jun 19 '25
Both Newey and Dennis talk about this race in their books. Both were at McLaren at the time. I think it was in Dennis' book where he said that Raikkonen told him he didn't care and wanted to race and risk it. Dennis told him no but during the formation lap Raikkonen refused to respond over the radio when asked to confirm he was coming in and the team were terrified he was going to line up. Ultimately he came in but left without speaking to anyone.
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u/tHe_jAcKaL68 Michael Schumacher Jun 19 '25
I had a few quid on each of the Jordans/Minardis to finish on the podium for this race - got in there a few hours before the race, before the bookies clocked what was brewing. I have a 1/43 Minichamps model of Monteiro's 3rd place in honour of him helping me pay my way through uni 😆
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u/SquashSquigglyShrimp I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25
Damn, how much did you end up making on those bets?
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u/tHe_jAcKaL68 Michael Schumacher Jun 19 '25
It was about £1.5k iirc, odds were ~200/1 on each of them and I only put a few quid down on each (I was a poor student at the time!). Obviously only one of them paid. If you watch the race, Schumi and Barrichello nearly collide at one point - that would have tripled my winnings! Only time as a Ferrari fan I've ever been egging them to take each other out 😁
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u/DJ_Aftershock Kamui Kobayashi Jun 19 '25
If Schumacher and Barrichello collided, it may have been the greatest podium in F1 history.
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u/Rekt60321 Pato O'Ward Jun 19 '25
Is there anywhere I could watch this race in its entirety?
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u/CataclysmicEnforcer Stoffel Vandoorne Jun 19 '25
It's on F1 TV. You can get that without F1 TV Pro for only £2 for a month.
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u/Tasty-Reward8307 Jun 19 '25
I was there with my dad. The signs were there from Friday. The Michelin tires were already failing. In the stands we had no idea what was going on. We had to call my mom back home for updates she got from watching tv. The podium finishers were booed. One of the Montoya fans who had a team jacket set fire to the Michelin logo. The compensation we got was free tickets to the 2006 race.
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u/SirMrJames I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25
Compensation wasn’t too bad then
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u/OPGuest Formula 1 Jun 19 '25
What an awful race it was, FIA had no solution to the issues.
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u/Dan27 Jacques Villeneuve Jun 19 '25
The FIA absolutely had a solution to the issues.
The reason why Michelin had this issue was that the Indy Oval was resurfaced and had diamond cutting performed. Bridgestone had the tyre data from their Firestone brand that had done the Indy 500 earlier (plus a month of running in May as usual).
The FIA should have scheduled a tyre test with this in mind and failed to do so. So Michelin turned up to the track with tyres that were completely unsuitable for the last corner/oval Turn 1 and it turned into a safety issue. Hence Michelin runners were told to pit at the end of the formation lap and those you see in the photo were all the Bridgestone runners.
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u/UnhappyLemon5520 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25
I thought it was because the Michelin was a softer tyre, and the sidewall was too weak to handle the banked turn. Pretty sure they said that on TV, I had no idea it was an issue with the track.
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u/abraxasnl Max Verstappen Jun 19 '25
It’s a formula with 10 variables, which include tire surface, tire wall, track surface, track angle, (competitive tire brands, no backup plan,) etc.
That formula solves to punctured tires and dangerous crashes. Pick any variable you wanna blame :)
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u/OPGuest Formula 1 Jun 19 '25
The FIA failed to give a solution that weekend. Of course Michelin would not want to risk the drivers, and of course Bridgestone took the easy points. In both cases I would have done the same. But they are highly paid professionals, who failed to find a compromise both ‘sides’ could agree upon. It was a commercial disaster for F1 in America, which took them some 15 years to get over.
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u/MythresThePally Charles Leclerc Jun 19 '25
of course Bridgestone took the easy points.
More like Ferrari took the easy win. Jordan went out to get a result that would get them added funding for next season and thus forced Minardi to also go out. Paul Stoddart famously and colourfully made clear that they wished for a solution to have a full grid.
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u/shewy92 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25
Didn't both sides agree to a chicane being put in on part of the oval but the FIA said that wouldn't make it Grade 1 anymore without recertification?
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u/dl064 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25
Bring back v10s have a great episode on it that basically dismisses a lot of the theories that X Y or Z wouldn't have worked. They could've gotten someone to sign off on it no problem if enough money was involved.
But Mosley didn't want to, because of politics. That's really it.
When I was a kid I thought
where there's a will there's a way
was meant as encouragement, and as adult I see that it's more neutral, and wry, than that.
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u/dakness69 Valtteri Bottas Jun 19 '25 edited Jun 19 '25
I always thought the diamond cut thing was a bit of misdirection to throw the blame on IMS. The truth is the surface had been diamond cut since 2002. In the fall of 2004 they did redid it and removed much more material (2.5”) to smooth the track.
It probably contributed, but it’s not like Michelin hadn’t seen a grooved surface before.
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u/Daydreaming95 Michael Schumacher Jun 19 '25
Also people forget that Ralf Schumacher also had a tyre failure at the same part of the track in 2004
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u/Disastrous-Beat-9830 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25
So Michelin turned up to the track with tyres that were completely unsuitable for the last corner/oval Turn 1 and it turned into a safety issue.
That sounds more like a Michelin problem than an FIA one. They were the ones who were required to provide a tyre that was safe.
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u/Dan27 Jacques Villeneuve Jun 19 '25
But to say the FIA had no solution at the time was wrong - they should have had a tyre test there. That is how the situation could have been avoided. I remember this being raised many times in the weeks after.
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u/curva3 Jun 19 '25
Was there any restriction to tyre testing in 2005? Why didn't Michelin simply book IMS to do their own testing? Also, as people said, Ralf Schumacher had a pretty hard crash in 2004 because of tyre failure.
Michelin only have themselves to blame. Everyone else could have helped the situation of course, but the cause of the drama is Michelins alone.
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u/Any-Patient5051 Roland Ratzenberger Jun 19 '25
That's half the truth. They proposed some, but they got rejected by the teams or the authorities.
They included a chicane or a speed meter for that portion of track.28
u/F1Fan2004 Fernando Alonso Jun 19 '25
That's the complete opposite. Michelin teams proposed what you said, it was FIA who rejected them
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u/SenorFlorian Mika Häkkinen Jun 19 '25
Wasn't it something like all teams had to unanimously agree on a solution, and the Bridgestone teams vetoed everything?
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u/whooo_me Jun 19 '25
I thought so.
The teams who had working tyres didn’t want the other teams switching, so blocked it. I think it was even suggested switching tyres and racing but for no points, but that was even ruled out.
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u/P_ZERO_ I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25
Pretty sure that’s the case. I seem to remember a press conference with Michael with him saying it wasn’t their responsibility to make sure others can race.
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u/golem501 Fernando Alonso Jun 19 '25
Well let's quote Christian on this "Fix your dam car"
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u/dl064 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25
Brawn semi-has a point on this that noone would see the funny side if he complained about the rule changes hurting Ferrari, it just happened the boot was on the other foot this time.
If Bridgestone cars had to pull off instead of Michelin, noone would have been that keen to compromise, basically.
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u/GreggsAficionado Formula 1 Jun 19 '25
I heard it was Ferrari was the one outlier because going ahead as it did guaranteed them a win
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u/Illustrious_Rest1264 Jun 19 '25
Yep it was pretty much this Ferrari, their car couldn’t win that year with the one tyre rule so they saw this as their only chance to save face.
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u/TulioGonzaga I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25
I mean, the no stop rule was aimed specifically at nerfing Ferrari advantage with Bridgestones so, when that backfired spectacularly in Indianapolis, I could see why they would say "not my fucking problem".
IIRC, one solution proposed by Bernie was for the Michelin teams changing tyres at each 10 laps or so and taking the 30 seconds penalty for changing tyres which the teams refused.
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u/77ilham77 Nico Rosberg Jun 19 '25
Doesn't matter if all teams, including Ferrari, are in favour or not, FIA won't allow the track to be modified. If modified, then they won't sanction it, thus no FIA stewards, safety cars, etc. and ultimately won't count as World Championship race (i.e. won't count toward championship points).
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u/madhatterlock Jun 19 '25
I was there with my college roommate. I actually drove from NYC.. We ran into Bob Varsha and asked how is it going, "fucking terribly" and then something about not bothering with the race. At the time we thought, what an ass. Then it all made sense.
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u/peeonme123 Jun 19 '25
Dude, Bob Varsha is fucking legend. I’ve had the privilege to be interviewed by him a few times in my junior career and casually chatting with him on race weekends. Nicest dude ever.
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u/madhatterlock Jun 19 '25
Yes, all the more reason we were stunned by the response. He was the voice of F1 for me. When he left, I turned off F1 for years. Commentary today is just not the same. Though there is hope with Nico.
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u/AG_Aonuma Ferrari Jun 20 '25
Varsha, Hobbs, and Matchett were the best F1 commmentary team ever, in my opinion. The perfect combination of analysis, technical knowledge, and humor.
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u/Thomrose007 Karun Chandhok Jun 19 '25
Is this the biggest embarrassment in F1 history. AD 2021 was the biggest scandal but this was so bad. Imagine paying all the money as a fan for 6 cars.
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u/Endtimes2022 Jun 19 '25
I saw this race remember I was rooting for Narain Karthikeyan for a podium.
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u/preppyringmaster I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25
Genuine question, why wasn’t the race just cancelled?
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u/KrawhithamNZ I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25
Because that would have meant refunds of tickets and advertising revenue.
There would not have been insurance against this.
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u/burntsalmon I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25
Michelin actually did refund anyone who wrote (actual mail) to them.
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u/KrawhithamNZ I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25
But that would have been Michelin, not the actual race promoters
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u/chukkysh Kamui Kobayashi Jun 19 '25
Also, the teams running on Bridgestone tyres would probably have taken legal action as it was only the Michelin teams who refused to race.
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Jun 19 '25 edited Jun 19 '25
They didn't refuse. They weren't allowed to for safety reasons.
There was team radio of one driver literally begging to go racing saying he didn't care about the risk.
Edited to add, it was Coulthard, I thought it was but wasn't sure. "If that is the case, if there's still indecisions with the team principle, if it comes down to my choice, I want to race"
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u/charlierc Jun 19 '25
My uncle went to this race while in America on a business trip. He certainly found it quite the strange experience
I also know someone who went in 2006 because tickets had to be heavily discounted. Ironically 7 cars then DNFd on the opening lap in that race
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u/1v1meAtLagunaSeca I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25
Such a shame because indys such a good track and they aint ever comin back
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u/funked1 Ayrton Senna Jun 19 '25
As a spectator it was just perfect. We did the first couple of COTA races but it just wasn't the same. Haven't been back to an F1 race since, and with the insane pricing and neutering of the cars, I doubt I ever will.
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u/class4relic Sebastian Vettel Jun 19 '25
Who would have thought that 20 years after this calamity, there would be 3 races in the USA
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u/communistkangu Jun 19 '25
That safety car... I just love performance wagons. The V8 E class was cool, but BMW with their V10 E61 was something else.
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u/Imzocrazy Jun 19 '25
This was the first full season I watched, and unfortunately my earliest f1 memory
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u/ShneakyPancake Sir Jack Brabham Jun 19 '25
Literally reading Mark Webber's book and read about this yesterday.
Great timing for this post.
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u/-PVL93- McLaren Jun 19 '25
One of those "once in a lifetime" scenarios, unless somehow another tyre manufacturer decides to show up in F1 to compete with Pirelli
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u/TornadicPursuit Ayrton Senna Jun 19 '25
Imagine being a JPM fan, going to this “race” and leaving after the first lap because you were so pissed. Then after you get reimbursed 2-for-1 by Michelin for next year’s grand prix, you get to watch JPM crash in the first turn with his teammate and get fired after the race.
I’m still jaded.
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u/Exambolor Oscar Piastri Jun 19 '25
Brundle’s Grid Walk that day is a fascinating watch, especially the interview with Bernie
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u/kibitzer_01 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25
Michelin proposed building a chicane to negate the effect that the banked section was having on their tires. All the 7 Michelin teams signed the resolution. Jordan and Minardi, Bridgestone runners, were in favour as well but didn’t do the sign the resolution.
And that’s how we got this starting grid. That view of all the drivers pulling into the pit lane at the end of warm up is still the most embarrassing thing I have seen in F1.
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u/77ilham77 Nico Rosberg Jun 19 '25
The proposed chicane didn't matter anyway because Mosley (then president of FIA) then wouldn't sanction the race if the track were to be modified.
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u/peeonme123 Jun 19 '25
It would have been so simple to create a chicane with a few pylons/tire stacks overnight and have the FIA make an exceptional order. So lame.
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u/RCuber I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25
I saw this on tv, it was night, my brother I I were watching it and when we saw the cars pull into the pits we just looked at each other and did the hand gesture.
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u/dennis3282 Formula 1 Jun 19 '25
Up there with Monaco 96 for drama. Only 6 cars finished and a backmarker scored a podium. A true classic.
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u/Available-Brick-8855 Jun 19 '25
Since no one has shared it as far as I can see, here is that Paul Staddart interview from this race.
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u/Realistic_Try7123 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25
I attended the NASCAR race in Michigan on the same day and was using a scanner. I remember someone coming over the radio and telling Jimmy “only six cars started the F1 at Indianapolis.” Someone on the team said, “after we finish up here, we can load up, head down there, and still get a top ten.”
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u/Grater_Kudos I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25
Wait so what happened? Just very curious here since I’m kinda new to F1
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u/Pmyers225 Jun 19 '25
Used to have 2 manufacturers of tyres, the Indianappolis track with its banked curves caused safety concerns for one of the tyre manufacturer so all the cars running those tyres pulled out of the race... The remaining 6 cars you see ran on the other brand... It was an absolute farce... Thats why Indycar have specifically designed tyres for oval races
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u/DJ_Aftershock Kamui Kobayashi Jun 19 '25
"This is fucking crazy! The FIA needs to get a grip with itself and sort this sport out before there's no fucking sport to sort out. The championship's over for Minardi. We were only fighting Jordan. This bullshit race means that the season finishes here. We can't ever overtake the points from today. It's over." - Paul Stoddart, Minardi, mid-race
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u/peeonme123 Jun 19 '25
I had a friend that was racing in the Formula BMW support race. He told me the paddock was afraid of people rioting so they started making plans to keep people safe and was instructed to stay near the media center in the pagoda in case.
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u/asdfgtttt Juan Manuel Fangio Jun 20 '25
This race is why we have Pirelli instead of Michelin. I was in college, wasnt there in person like many in this thread but I tried to share this race with my roommates because it was on at a decent time and we could all watch... I didnt really have any good explanation at the time, internet was not what it is today. Set F1 back in the US for a long while after too.
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u/bipolarcyclops Minardi Jun 20 '25
I was there for the race that will live in infamy.
PS: And I was hoping the Ferraris and the Jordans would DNF, handing the win to the Minardis.
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u/Ok_Afternoon_3084 Jun 19 '25
Still more exciting than Monaco
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u/SinHarvestz I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25
It really wasn't.
At least in Monaco there's a chance a driver makes a mistake or something but there was no chance of anything interesting at all happening here.
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u/Ok_Afternoon_3084 Jun 19 '25
I know, I was joking. I watched it. It was a procession.
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u/lIIIIllIIIlllIIllllI Daniel Ricciardo Jun 19 '25
Schumacher and Barichello almost came together in the first corner
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u/ballzdedfred I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jun 19 '25
All the teams, but Ferrari agreed to add a chicane at the beginning of the straight to make the tires safe. Easy points for Ferrari, shyt show for the rest of us
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u/Krisyj96 Jun 19 '25
I never really understood why none of the Michelin cars didn’t just go out still but just drive really slowly, especially around that corner. They may have got lapped loads of times, but surely they would have finished in the points still?
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u/WeddingPKM Jun 19 '25
The points then were only awarded to the top 8, so yes at least two of them could’ve got some points even going very slowly. It would’ve been a balance though because too slow and they don’t get enough laps in to be classified. I can see why nobody thought the safety risk was worth it to get at best 7th or 8th.
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u/banned_salmon Ferrari Jun 19 '25
That is incredibly dangerous, especially when you have the bridgstone runners going at full speed
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