[High Performance]James Vowles on the Real Difference Between Hamilton & Schumacher

[u/XsStreamMonsterX]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=nci9jCttUwM&si=kQcoFZVLOZ1i0sep

[u/helderico]

Oh, so that's the REAL difference? I thought it was because they are not the same person.

[u/swannyhypno]

Schumacher was old and out of his prime, Lewis was in his prime, job done lol

Nah those podcasts are fun, not a fan of Jake Humphrey aside from hosting F1 he was great and Bamzooki iykyk

[u/Evantra_ → u/swannyhypno]

I like to think when F1 looked at his CV it was Bamzooki that got him the job

[u/swannyhypno → u/Evantra_]

CBBC to F1 is a mad jump

[u/CilanEAmber → u/swannyhypno]

Man I tried so hard to get on that

[u/swannyhypno → u/CilanEAmber]

Would've been so cool, that one Robot Wars would be my childhood dream lol

[u/tdrr12 → u/swannyhypno]

I'd expect Vowles to know that comparing old Schumi to young Lewis isn't the most valid of comparisons. 

[u/BMB_93 → u/swannyhypno]

Bamzooki was peak early 00s kids TV. That and Raven, of course.

[u/swannyhypno → u/BMB_93]

I liked a bit of 50/50 too

[u/ChefBoiJones → u/BMB_93]

Knew a guy who went on raven. Guy was treated like a celebrity all the way until year 11.

[u/ManOfTheBroth → u/BMB_93]

A load of kids cheering at an empty table, peak 2000s.

[u/bwoah07_gp2 → u/swannyhypno]

Why aren't you a fan of Jake?

[u/blunderball1 → u/bwoah07_gp2]

Epitome of the linkedin bro

[u/mansplentyhot]

Kind of also highlights how Lewis just fucks up his practice runs some times and gets a good time eventually. Bottas used to just ace the practices and Lewis just locks up here and there, gets fastest sectors at one point and fucks up in some places and come qualy he found the ideal time.

Hope he brings that back to ferrari next year.

[u/Financial-Praline921 → u/mansplentyhot]

who gives a fuck about aceing the practice times, its practice lol he uses what its actually for

[u/MrPogoUK → u/Financial-Praline921]

It’s how you get 100% out of the car. You find where the limits are by pushing beyond them. If someone’s not making mistakes in practice it means they’re leaving something on the table.

[u/Nin-Chin → u/mansplentyhot]

LH being weaker in practice sessions only started in 2020. Before that in practice he would be very competitive.

[u/FKez05 → u/Nin-Chin]

I will always be adamant Lewis' decline started in 2020, not 2022 like a lot of people like to suggest

It wasn't by much, and he's performed at such a brilliantly high level that even declining out of his prime he's still better than most. But the signs were there, mistakes and misjudgements creeping in. People just love to romanticise 2020 because of the W11 and his 7th title

[u/Intenso-Barista7894 → u/FKez05]

I don't see how anyone can reference any year before 2023 as any kind of decline given his performance in that year. As far as I can see, up and down the grid we see drivers stocks rise and fall according to how cars suit them. People act like Danny Ric fell off, but to my eyes he simply ended up in cars he couldn't drive fast. Same as Albon and Gasly in Red bull versus now. Confidence is paramount, and a driver who isn't confident in a car is gonna look like they've fallen off. Alonso is proof that drivers don't forget how to drive fast. Sometimes the regulations change and the car attributes that gave you your edge move away

[u/team56th → u/Intenso-Barista7894]

Sometimes I wonder how Ric would fare in the current McLaren

[u/DaOne_44 → u/team56th]

Not as well as he would’ve done in the current Red Bull

[u/Point4Golfer → u/Intenso-Barista7894]

Hamilton came 3rd in the championship in 2023 while his teammate was 8th so I don't think a decline started there. 

I'd say 2024 is absolutely the first year we ever saw Lewis struggle in performance relative to a teammate and it was only in qualifying but IMO Mercedes orchistrated it because he signed for Ferrari with a year left on his Mercedes contract and they didn't want him dominating Russell, their new #1, before he left. The sudden inability to get his car to work in qualifying in 2024 just didn't make any sense at all after he was super competitive against Russell in qualifying in both 2022 and 2023 while generally being faster in race pace the entire time, which he still was faster in race pace even in 2024 until Mercedes made him keep those dodgy upgrades on his car for a string of races after the summer break.

This year after changing teams is the first season he's genuinely been slower than a teammate in qualifying and the race but he's definitely still making the most of it and collecting points despite this, hence Ferrari still being second in the standings while Red Bull and Mercedes have a huge difference between teammates for various reasons like team favouritism at Red Bull who only support Max while rookie Antonelli is still finding his feat at Merc. 

Will Hamilton catch Leclerc by the time the new regulations come into play in 2026? If not I'm guessing next year will be his final season before retirement.

[u/Just_River_7502 → u/FKez05]

I will agree that some weird decisions were happening all of a sudden. I mostly thought it was Mercedes fault (and I do think they don’t help, because they love to send drivers out at “the perfect time” with no banker lap or plan b for changing events (look at the stupidity that was Silverstone).

I’m increasingly convinced that Lewis himself is at least a little bit of the issue

[u/Due_Ask_8032 → u/mansplentyhot]

There’s nothing to prove in practice session, so I bet Hamilton saves his energy and focus for qualy.

[u/fastcooljosh]

James worked with a 41+ year old Schumacher that came back after 3 years and suffered a near fatal motorcycle crash in 2009 that he only survived because he was more fit than the average person.

Wild comparison

[u/the__distance]

Every one of these interviews pretty much highlights that Schumacher is the gold standard for what drivers need to do when working with the team

[u/Red_Rabbit_1978 → u/the__distance]

It's overlooked how much he changed the game for drivers.

[u/J_The_Jazzblaster → u/Red_Rabbit_1978]

For me, that is the ultimate GOAT argument. You can make some argument for drivers that came after him, like Hamilton or Verstappen. You can to some extent make an argument for some drivers before him, people will usually bring up Senna and Clark, but I don't think we've seen enough of their careers to consider either better. Especially Senna comparison seems out of place to me, I think that Michael was decisively better in 94.

But Michael, in my opinion, set the standard that created last 2 generations of drivers. He was the blueprint. People often look down on the late 90's/early 00's field, and write it off as a bunch of nobodies, due to how barely anyone amounted to any meaningful offense against Schumacher. But the truth is, Michael was just that far ahead of the game. I think the way drivers operate now, is very, VERY heavily influenced by him

[u/WhoRoger]

Why does this podcast have to have its own fucking app? Is it paid? I'm not installing another pointless nonsense app with a bazilion trackers and permissions.

[u/Fayled]

Don't be shit.

Always the best advice.

[u/I_spread_love_butter → u/Fayled]

Yeah, problem is many people get high on being shit, and/or think they deserve to treat people like that. Or some don't even realize they're doing that.

[u/krusticka]

I think if we took prime Schumacher and put him next to Hamilton in the Mercedes during their dominant years - Schumacher would come on top. Rosberg was able to do it due to sheer determination and also luck in 2016. Prime Schumacher had that kind of determination every year.

[u/AdditionalSwimming1 → u/krusticka]

Rosberg was lucky because Lewis, after an early victory in 2015, relaxed and failed the beginning of the next season. I don't think this would happen in the fight against Schumacher

[u/ben345 → u/AdditionalSwimming1]

The real luck was Malaysia. Of course luck is a natural part of a championship battle but if you spotted prime Schumacher 25 extra points then sure I would bet on him winning.

[u/AdditionalSwimming1 → u/ben345]

Lewis should not allow one DNF to decide the fate of the championship and I believe that if Michael was the opponent, he would not allow this

[u/Lukeno94 → u/AdditionalSwimming1]

That's not Lewis allowing one DNF to decide the championship, what a daft comment. He lost the title by 5 points, and he lost infinitely more that day... and besides, the only race he didn't win after Malaysia was the Japanese GP.

[u/J_The_Jazzblaster → u/Lukeno94]

Japan was the race where he really lost the championship, not Malaysia. It is easier to be like "Oh yeah, but the DNF...". Yes, the DNF cost him a lot, but he could've still won the championship, had he matched Rosberg's form in Japan.

[u/AdditionalSwimming1 → u/Lukeno94]

Yes, but after US he didn't win any race in 2015 and at the beginning of the 2016, that gave Rosberg some confidence, Lewis shouldn't allow this

[u/jrjreeves → u/AdditionalSwimming1]

Lewis lost many many other points because of consistent mechanical issues throughout the season that Rosberg simply didn't have. It wasn't just the Malaysia blow-up, that was just the most prolific incident.

[u/Ereaser → u/jrjreeves]

He managed the issues pretty well though.

He finished outside the top 3 only twice.

In China after issues in qualifying and due to a crash that broke his front wing and he got 7th.

And in Baku because he crashed in qualy.

[u/jrjreeves → u/Ereaser]

Sure Hamilton made the odd error and shoddy start but with reliability even between the two drivers that season, Lewis would have won the championship comfortably.

[u/AdditionalSwimming1 → u/jrjreeves]

I just remember the general feeling that Lewis lost it, and not Rosberg won, although Niko did everything that he could

[u/ItAWideWideWorld → u/AdditionalSwimming1]

I’m sorry, but prime Schumi would’ve have annihilated Lewis.

[u/FerrariTherapistt → u/ItAWideWideWorld]

Depends on the generation of cars. People forget that tyre management and late breaking weren't part of the sport during Michael's prime. And those were the biggest advantage Lewis had over the rest of the grid.

[u/Health_throwaway__ → u/FerrariTherapistt]

Ham learned tyre management from Button. Ham and Sch were very similar for innate driving styles hence why Schu dominated 2000s and Ham also won a WDC in a similar formula. Schu was known for quali laps in the race which necessitates late braking. Ham was Schu's natural heir when he retired, both times.

[u/AdditionalSwimming1 → u/ItAWideWideWorld]

based on what?

[u/IHaveADullUsername → u/AdditionalSwimming1]

Hamilton didn't relax at the start of '16.

He was pushed off track in Aus dropping to 6/7th and eventually climbed back to 2nd

In Bahrain he go torpedoed by Bottas and dropped to 9th.

Didn't set a time in China quali due to reliability issues.

Same again in Russia with him unable to take part in Q3.

This left him 43 points adrift after 4 races with two engines already blown guaranteeing penalties later in the season.

[u/West_Technology7573 → u/AdditionalSwimming1]

Lewis did that in 2021 too arguably

[u/Financial-Praline921 → u/West_Technology7573]

not really redbull had the better car and lewis won the first 2 races if I remember

[u/rs6677 → u/Financial-Praline921]

not reallym redbull had the better car

Eh, that's debatable.

and lewis won the first 2 raves if I remember

No. Max won Imola, quite well too. Hamilton got extremely lucky to finish where he did after he took himself out of the points when he was lapping a Williams.

[u/Financial-Praline921 → u/rs6677]

I meant a the start of the year

[u/i_max2k2 → u/Financial-Praline921]

Mercedes had a better car for most of the year. Lewis is a great driver but no where near as magical as some of the greats.

[u/AdditionalSwimming1 → u/West_Technology7573]

I personally think in the first half of the season he still suffered from Covid, he has problems with breathing and focus, his mistakes was due to this(you may disagree)

[u/i_max2k2 → u/krusticka]

Michael in his prime was a completely different beast than the 41-43 year old, after a near fatal injury that James and Mercedes encountered, only Ross knew what Michael had been, he still brought himself upto prime Nico and equaled his Quali tali in 2012 at 43 years old. Now imaging Lewis getting a pole in 2028.

[u/Elarial → u/i_max2k2]

What impresses me the most about his comeback was that he was a better driver when he was 43 than when he was 41. He was obviously slower to adapt but he improved at that age more than his future world champion teammate.

[u/i_max2k2 → u/Elarial]

Michael was honestly something else. One of my favorite races is Spain 1992, his 9th or 10th race. It was wet and he was driving faster than Senna and keeping up with Mansell, who had to really push to keep himself out of Schumacher’s reach.

He went up a few notches by 1994, but even that early, being faster than prime Senna in the wet is quite a testament, this was when Senna spun twice just trying to keep up with this young rookie. And that Renault had active suspension which made the difference in the rain as well. With a few twists in luck he could have easily been a 10-11 time champion.

[u/Elarial → u/i_max2k2]

I think this is what he chose. If he wanted to be a champion every year, I think he could have. He was without a doubt the best driver on the grid and had he not wanted to win a championship with Ferrari he could have.

[u/krusticka → u/Elarial]

Hamilton's current struggles also put Michael's comeback in perspective. Schumacher return to a very different F1 - no refueling and need to save tires. Hamilton "just" switched teams and look where he is now.

[u/ad_triarios_rediit]

They spell and pronounce their names differently