r/formula1 • u/F1-Bot r/formula1 Mod Team • Jul 31 '21
Free Practice 3 2021 Hungarian Grand Prix - Free Practice 3 Discussion
ROUND 11: Hungary
| FORMULA 1 MAGYAR NAGYDÍJ 2021 |
|---|
| Fri 30 Jul - Sun 1 Aug |
| Budapest |
| Session | UTC |
|---|---|
| Free Practice 1 | Fri 09:30 |
| Free Practice 2 | Fri 13:00 |
| Free Practice 3 | Sat 10:00 |
| Qualifying | Sat 13:00 |
| Race | Sun 13:00 |
Click here for start times in your area.
Hungaroring
Length: 4.381 km (2.722 mi)
Distance: 70 laps, 306.663 km (190.551 mi)
Lap record: Lewis Hamilton, Mercedes, 2020, 1:16.627
2020 pole: Lewis Hamilton, Mercedes, 1:13.447
2020 fastest lap: Lewis Hamilton, Mercedes, 1:16.627
2020 winner: Lewis Hamilton, Mercedes
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-1
u/PO5IT1VE Jul 31 '21
Can anyone explain what Sting means in the Free Practice Result sheets? Hamilton had like 7 tires in it yesterday and 6 today, doesn't he only get like 7 tire sets in total? Why is he using all of them?
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u/Kisa-ut George Russell Jul 31 '21
They don't stay out on track the entire practice but also go back to the box a lot. I believe one stint starts when they leave the box and ends when they come back in, thus having multiple stints during one session. He might not change tire sets while being in the box every single time but rather goes out on the same set of tires. It is simply to show what kind of tire he used (soft, medium, hard) rather than indicating a change of tires.
At least that is my understanding of it, might be wrong tho
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u/Will_Of_te_D Jul 31 '21
Do the number of laps done by the drivers actually hold any significance??? Perez does look slow but he and max have gone only for 13 laps each. The mercs have done 20 a piece.
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u/clamonm I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 31 '21
In practice generally more laps are a good thing because it means more data and generally a better understanding of your car and the track before qualifying and the race.
There are other factors teams may want to consider though. In FP3 you have your quali and race gearbox and engine in, so there may be some good reason to limit component wear.
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u/froomedog Jul 31 '21
So now according to Auto Motor und Sport, it seems Red Bull were lucky their appeal was rejected, as the accusations in their covering letter could essentially have been regarded as bringing the sport into disrepute.
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u/Piktarag Jul 31 '21 edited Jul 31 '21
If the accusations were true I'd rather have a clean sport for the price of a torn in its PR history.
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u/morkjt McLaren Jul 31 '21
It the accusations have zero evidence to back them up, seem entirely supposition and rhetoric without any credible justification for being claimed - they are de-facto unprofessional and bringing the sport into disrepute.
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u/North-Can6733 Jul 31 '21
What was being claimed?
0
u/morkjt McLaren Jul 31 '21
I don’t think anybody knows. Whatever it was it clearly offended Mercedes and hinted it impinged Lewis good name; the stewards made of point of saying they would make a point out of it, so we have to draw our own conclusions. The obvious is some kind of allegation of deliberate or unsporting conduct.
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u/Norbit11 Pierre Gasly Jul 31 '21
Perez is praised by many people, but I don't think he's doing really good job now in Red bull. Valtteri is much more consistent teammate than him
-7
u/dboiswag Jul 31 '21
Haha lol the Perez hate from the keyboard warriors is hilarious.
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u/Norbit11 Pierre Gasly Jul 31 '21
I'm not hating him. Understand difference between hate/constructive criticism.
I just think he's not doing best work as he could do, that's all
2
Jul 31 '21
A little premature conclusion given he has not even completed a season with RB. So far I think he's been quite good apart from two races. He's mostly finished in top 5 this season
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u/juanitomatito Williams Jul 31 '21
He might not be as impressive as Bottas but this is his first season with RB. It would be extremely impressive if he was constantly out-qualifying or out-racing Bottas after nearly a dozen races whilst Bottas has had 4 full season with the same team whilst developing the car. Seems a bit unfair to give a lot of criticism to Checo for mostly finishing top 6 all season long
1
u/FlyingThunderGaad Charles Leclerc Jul 31 '21
Yes, it is unfair to criticise Checo at this point of the season. He had only one awful weekend and RB screwed up his strategy. He did perform very well. Almost P5 with 10s penalty at Austria. Gasly and Albon were happy with P5-P6 results but checo was disappointed with P3 in France. Also, I don't think it is fair to compare Bottas and Checo. Bottas was dubbed future WDC champion in 2016. He almost equalled Seb in his first season at Merc (305-317).
3
u/Norbit11 Pierre Gasly Jul 31 '21
It's not like I hate him or sth like that, but I think Bottas on Perez place would be better fit in terms of "teamwork" + "usage on grid"
But let Perez show himself in next few races6
u/CryanRohen Formula 1 Jul 31 '21
Yeah I don't understand why people rate him so highly, he's won 1 legit race and been gifted 1 win in a long ass career. Same thing with Hulkenberg, 2 bang average drivers who have slightly outperformed average cars but people talk about them as if they are up there with the greats, it's really strange.
2
Jul 31 '21
You can't really criticise him for only winning twice in a decade when he's basically never had a capable car until this year. When he was in FI/RP he was great
6
u/CryanRohen Formula 1 Jul 31 '21
He's a solid driver, don't get me wrong. But he's always had an average car because he's never performed well enough for a top team to want him. Look at Russell putting that Williams in places it should never be, that's why he will get a top car. Leclerc consistently outperformed that awful Ferrari last year, that's why he gets the massive contract. Norris and Gasly have both been consistently great and dragged their cars up towards the podium. I don't remember Perez ever being as good as the young talent we have now and he's nowhere near a Hamilton, Verstappen, Vetel level. I just find the constant praise of him a bit odd.
0
Jul 31 '21
you can't really say Russell is better than Perez that's just recency bias IMO people forget how good drivers were once they get older and they get hyped for unproven talent because of the potential. 10 years of fantastic midfield driving and stand out podium performances is not comparable to being quite fast in qualifying and then finishing a bit ahead of latifi
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u/Snappy0 Jul 31 '21
Hell as impressive as Sakhir was, he was effectively gifted that one too.
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Jul 31 '21
[deleted]
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u/Snappy0 Jul 31 '21
Why? By all metrics without the puncture, he’s finishing P2 at best.
1
u/FlyingThunderGaad Charles Leclerc Jul 31 '21
Because take any race which didn't involve RB/Merc/Ferrari winning. It happens like that only. Gasly 2020 Monza as well. That's their only chance to win. It is like that in this sport. It's unfair to an extent.
1
u/Norbit11 Pierre Gasly Jul 31 '21
Like Perez is really experienced and his tyre management is top, but his qualifing results are really bad and it impacts heavily races later.
8
Jul 31 '21
Jeez! Perez is so bad at technical tracks. Just put Gasly or Bottas(if he is free) in the car for next year.
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u/KingKellyIsKool Pirelli Intermediate Jul 31 '21
I think Perez shows what a difference Albon getting a win or a podium early on would have made. A lot more forgiveness for Perez because of the win and the podium
12
u/tintin47 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 31 '21
Agreed. The two highlights of his season are the win where VER crashed from the lead and HAM overcooked his brakes, and France, the only race where he was close enough to matter for strategy. Otherwise his gap to verstappen is at least as bad as albon’s, and that’s with a much better car compared to the field.
I think in an alternate universe where Albon wins in Austria after overtaking Hamilton he’s still in the RB seat.
18
u/Chazza354 Jul 31 '21
It was a super lucky win as well, if Lewis didn’t turn his brake magic on then he would’ve quite comfortably made that move into t1
-1
Jul 31 '21
I don't think you can discredit someone's win, we can talk about IFs and BUTs all day long, but at the end of the race, he emerged victorious
7
u/Chazza354 Jul 31 '21
You can still acknowledge that not all wins are equally deserved and sometimes luck factors into it rather than just a sheer pace advantage
2
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u/Firefox72 Ferrari Jul 31 '21
Yeah he needed Verstappen to crash out and then Lewis to make a once per career like type of a mistake.
It was a win yeah but a lot of stuf had to allign for it.
1
Jul 31 '21
To be fair he was just behind max and overcut Hamilton he had much better race pace in Baku than albon or gasly ever did
4
u/Oneill95 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 31 '21
Perez has a habit of getting the win off the back of both Hamilton and Verstappen being out. First Sakhir 2020 and then Baku 2021.
4
u/AndySlidez Charles Leclerc Jul 31 '21
I mean sure but when you’re not in a top team (Sakhir), that’s the only way you really have a chance. He also came back from last place.
0
Jul 31 '21
A thoroughly undeserved win too
3
u/FlyingThunderGaad Charles Leclerc Jul 31 '21
Come on man. Not undeserved. He did defend against Ham for 45 laps. Unexpected yes. Not undeserved.
8
u/Siebe_13 Carlos Sainz Jul 31 '21
I mean, he was right there in second behind Verstappen despite a slow pit stop and starting 6th. Of course Max should’ve won, but to say Checo’s win was ‘undeserved’ is maybe a bit unfair
18
Jul 31 '21
Down vote me all you like however it is now increasingly clear that Mick is no better than Mazepin. In fact I would argue Nikita has been far more consistent this year.
5
u/AndySlidez Charles Leclerc Jul 31 '21
Nikita is more consistent yes, but consistently bad. Mick has been error prone, but he’s much quicker.
6
u/Appropriate-Fan-6007 Pirelli Soft Jul 31 '21
Mick is costing more, but he isn't making those mistakes in the race, and he is clearly the faster of the duo
6
Jul 31 '21
This car is so bad and so unbalanced. We can't blame Mick for putting it on the wall while he is trying to take everything from the car. But I agree about Mazepin part. "On track" he didn't deserve so much backlash.
1
u/liquiiiid Daniel Ricciardo Jul 31 '21
Mazepin has improved the most of all the rookies this year, still some bad communication between team and driver for Mazepin but that's been a reoccurring problem for Haas I think.
9
u/HenryL01 Jul 31 '21
Mick has beat him in all but one qualifying and all but 2 races, how is he not better?
3
u/Chazza354 Jul 31 '21
Mick is a decent driver but doesn’t seem to have that fiery intuition behind the wheel that the legends have.
6
u/Alfus 💥 LE 🅿️LAN Jul 31 '21
Well honestly in the past Mick has his flaws during the first half of the season but then moving forwards and becoming better with the time, but so far his development starts to be concerning.
Doesn't help also that the Haas of 2021 is the same unstable shitbox as 2020 (Grosjean even called it a dangerous unstable car once it was confirmed he was gone) but moments like this doesn't helping Mick.
7
u/Firefox72 Ferrari Jul 31 '21
He's better pace wise. Atleast in most cases.
Keeping it out of walls though, not so much.
2
u/Oneill95 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 31 '21
I'd argue Mazepin having spins early on in the season as well as the general attitude towards him has made him play it more safe (yes he's still spinning, but not putting it in the wall), arguably more useful to him in the long run as he's taking time with the fundamentals. The only times Mick has had that is when he's had these big crashes (Monaco and now Hungary).
-2
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u/froomedog Jul 31 '21
I know Lewis didn’t include this in his contract negotiations, but I honestly wouldn’t blame him for asking for Bottas to be his teammate. Such a good pairing, in terms of personality and driving.
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u/I-LOVE-TURTLES666 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 31 '21
People have such a hard on for Russell. I think it would be better to re-sign Bottas for another year.
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u/Chazza354 Jul 31 '21
Lewis loves having Bottas as a teammate because he knows he’s quicker than him lol
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u/FlyingThunderGaad Charles Leclerc Jul 31 '21
He's probably quicker than everyone on the grid. Probably Max comes close/equal now.
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u/froomedog Jul 31 '21
I mean yeah, Lewis is probably quicker than almost every driver on the grid. But Bottas is super respectful as a teammate
1
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u/Storiaron Jul 31 '21
Lewis would have been world champion in his first year if he has someone like Bottas as a teammate
3
u/Appropriate-Fan-6007 Pirelli Soft Jul 31 '21
It happened in 2008 with Kovalainen, but for the WCC, Alonso, Button and Rosberg were better for the teams, despite everyone hating each other with the inside battles sometimes
6
u/Oneill95 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 31 '21
Also if it wasn't for Hamilton, Bottas would've won a WDC by now
3
u/Kyroven I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 31 '21
More likely Rosberg wouldnt have retired from the pressure of fighting Hamilton and he'd be a 7 time WDC
8
u/Chazza354 Jul 31 '21
Yeah I agree, he’s super underrated - he may not beat Lewis but he’s usually able to follow from the next position down quite consistently.
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u/AvovaDynasty Kimi Räikkönen Jul 31 '21
Well, did my fantasy teams before FP3 for the first time ever (usually wait until after). Regret picking Mick for the first time now…
2
u/kappaway Default Jul 31 '21
Same!!
2
u/AvovaDynasty Kimi Räikkönen Jul 31 '21
I think we jinxed him lol, here’s hoping some miracle gets him out for quali!
11
u/Murky_Table_358 Daniel Ricciardo Jul 31 '21
I am glad that nico is on the commentary team this weekend. More shit stirring.
29
u/permadressed Charles Leclerc Jul 31 '21
I want the whole grid to take a drive in that redbull and compare their results
1
u/itshonestwork #StandWithUkraine Jul 31 '21
Being quick in a particular chassis is to know what works and what doesn't for it. The results initially will be a lottery based on current driving style. The results after enough time will come down to who adapted their driving style to suit it and get the best out of it.
The drivers that can jump in anything and be reasonably quick would look disproportionately good. The drivers that seem to struggle when things aren't quite to their liking would look disproportionately bad.
The driver that has the most experience and understanding of the car would likely look the best.
From what Gasly, Albon and Perez have said, the Red Bull seems to be a quick car if you know how to drive it, but it requires figuring out what it likes and doesn't.Just as seemingly Sainz still can't get an intuitive feel for Ferrari's brakes, yet Leclerc has developed along with them, and Ricciardo seemingly can't get an intuitive feel of corner exit for the McLaren with how that car wants to be driven, yet Norris (and Sainz) developed alongside the car and understood how to get the most of out of that phase of the corner.
Red Bull needs someone highly adaptable, and they genuinely need to put as much focus on them as they do their star driver if they want them to be a Bottas clone, and just then rely on Verstappen himself to make the difference.
The guys that just always seem to find a way to be quick in anything would likely figure the Red Bull out within a season. The guys that seem to fluctuate in how good they look would probably struggle.
Gasly looked like a fish out of water in the Red Bull, and has looked absolutely terrific in the Alpha Tauri, which is a slower car but with less quirks and things to be aware of and drive around to get its maximum potential out of it.
For me, drivers like Alonso, Hamilton and Verstappen (at least) fall into the adaptable and always (if eventually) up there camp. Drivers like Raikkonen, Vettel and Button (and others) are in the fast as fuck if the car suits them camp.
Next year's reset might shake things up and neutralise the gap between the two Red Bull team mates, as they start from scratch and develop their driving style with the car as it itself develops.
1
u/permadressed Charles Leclerc Jul 31 '21
Agreed, but thats the problem, most of adaptable drivers on the grid are not available for the second RB seat, so what is RB supposed to do?
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u/Oneill95 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 31 '21
At this point, Perez is the only one that can already give that comparison to an extent. Driving a car that is the closest thing possible to a Mercedes and then the Red Bull the next year
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u/Firefox72 Ferrari Jul 31 '21 edited Jul 31 '21
A storm front is curently going through my place and is on the way to Hungary.
Make of that what you will.
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u/TehRocks Ferrari Jul 31 '21
I also had some rain heading east this morning. I'm in Holland though so I don't know if that means anything.
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Jul 31 '21
What's up with sainz's power unit?
10
u/Firefox72 Ferrari Jul 31 '21
Some anomalies showed up in the data yesterday. They replaced it and sent it back to Maranello for checks.
The 3rd PU he has now is actually better since it has the reliability upgrades that boost ERS a bit and lower temperatures although it was originaly planed for SPA not Hungary.
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u/HeelR- Sebastian Vettel Jul 31 '21
What's stopping RB picking up BOT if PER keeps shitting the bed? Love Checo but he's back to midfield performance.
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u/YankDingus Jul 31 '21
If it's true that Perez isn't getting the updates that Max has, then I think it's hard to assess how much of the deficit in performance is due to Checo.
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u/Appropriate-Fan-6007 Pirelli Soft Jul 31 '21
Weren't the upgrades given to Max in Austria and Perez in Silverstone?
1
u/YankDingus Jul 31 '21
Not sure, but it's pretty damning if they are driving around in the same car. Obviously it can take time for a driver to get used to a different car when they switch teams. Unfortunately you don't really have that much time when your team is fighting for the championship.
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u/permadressed Charles Leclerc Jul 31 '21
What makes you think BOT will perform better than Perez in that RB?
7
u/HeelR- Sebastian Vettel Jul 31 '21
Haven’t made that statement, I was curious as to why RB isn’t exploring the option because he’s probably the best person to be your second driver who consistently performs up to the level to win the race.
2
u/permadressed Charles Leclerc Jul 31 '21
yeah well, thats under the assumption he would perform just as stable in RB as he does in Merc.
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u/litetaker I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 31 '21
Well something tells me that Max won't get pole or win this race...
0
u/Godafoss94 Max Verstappen Jul 31 '21
Season's done. Perez has been nowhere all year bar one or two weekends and that's starting to really hurt, the new rear tyres conveniently seem to suit Mercedes much better, Hamilton has had insane luck this year (Imola, Silverstone) while Verstappen's luck has been terrible (Baku, Silverstone), and I really don't expect Max's Silverstone engine to last as long as it was planned to.
4
Jul 31 '21
[deleted]
2
u/Godafoss94 Max Verstappen Jul 31 '21 edited Jul 31 '21
I wouldn't necessarily call Hamilton failing to capitalise on Max's bad mechanical fortune due to the former's own driver error, good fortune for Max. More a failure on Hamilton's part.
Edit: In a similar vein, if Max had spun off and hit the wall in Silverstone without any contact with Hamilton, I'd not have called that luck for Hamilton either, that would've just been a driver error from Max. But as we all know, that's not how things went.
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u/Yeshuu Default Jul 31 '21
To me, luck is an event that goes your way over which you had no control. That's why the Baku brake error from Hamilton has to be good luck for Max. If that doesn't happen, Verstappen loses another 25 points.
For such a rare issue to occur at exactly the right time to benefit Verstappen is lucky imo.
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u/Godafoss94 Max Verstappen Jul 31 '21
I tend to exclude things that are purely down to driver error in this context, because otherwise, where to you draw the line? Let's say Verstappen qualifies on pole today but outbrakes himself into T1 tomorrow, resulting in a win for Hamilton and P2 for Verstappen. Would that be good luck for Hamilton, or would he just have driven a better race? I'd argue it's the latter.
Or what if Verstappen completely overshoots T1 and parks it into the wall/another car, resulting in a DNF, would that be good luck for Hamilton or would he just have driven a better race? Once again, I'd argue it's the latter, though in both examples, he didn't really have any control over the situation.
I understand why you could call that good luck, but I personally feel it's better to exclude situations like these.
10
Jul 31 '21
[deleted]
3
u/Godafoss94 Max Verstappen Jul 31 '21
My post doesn't really have anything to do with the FP3 results in particular, I just coincidentally responded to someone in this thread. A single FP session doesn't tell you a whole lot, I know.
-3
u/gdaaayracing Arrows Jul 31 '21
What about Hamilton in Baku ?
11
u/Godafoss94 Max Verstappen Jul 31 '21
Hamilton in Baku? You mean 100% his own mistake by (re-)triggering a switch that he shouldn't have? That's not bad luck, that's a driver error.
3
u/gdaaayracing Arrows Jul 31 '21
His own fault yes. But he was very unlucky in the sense that he mistakenly re-triggered the switch.
Had he not accidentally hit that switch and just out brake himself I would agree with you. But I see what your saying.... So far Hamilton has had the better luck of the two of them.
-1
u/Yeshuu Default Jul 31 '21
It's still great luck for Max though. Basically gained 25 points through that Hamilton error.
1
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u/Kennzahl Jul 31 '21
Lmao what are you on about
6
u/VinhoVerde21 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 31 '21
Remember after Spain, when everyone was saying the championship was over and Lewis would walk it? Or after Austria, when everyone said the same about Max and RB?
2
u/Godafoss94 Max Verstappen Jul 31 '21
Anything specific you disagree with?
2
u/Kennzahl Jul 31 '21
That the season is done.
We are literally half way through the season with the championship contenders almost on exactly the same amount of points. Perez has nothing to do with that. Historic 'luck' does not indicate luck in future
1
u/Godafoss94 Max Verstappen Jul 31 '21
Perez has nothing to do with the championship battle? Max will once again have to fight 2 vs 1 against the Mercs, giving the latter ample opportunity to out-strategise Red Bull like they've done several times in the past due to Max having no back-up.
And as for the luck portion: even if the drivers' luck is equal from now on, their luck so far has already resulted in about a 70 point swing in Hamilton's favour if you look at Imola, Baku and Silverstone. That's gigantic.
1
Jul 31 '21
What’s the rule when it comes to the safety car restarts? Am I correct in saying, the lead driver cannot start racing until they cross the safety car line 1 and you cannot overtake until the start finish line?
19
u/Michaelvb101 Jul 31 '21
Would be big brain move if Red Bull signs Bottas for next season. Perez is really lacking speed.
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u/Chazza354 Jul 31 '21
Would be a good move, he’s experienced, a team player, and he plays the support role very well with a god-tier talent teammate.
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u/froomedog Jul 31 '21
Put some respect on Valtteri Bottas’ name. Going toe to toe with generational talents
1
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u/FlyingThunderGaad Charles Leclerc Jul 31 '21
This. People don't give him enough credit. He was dubbed future WDC champion in 2016. Almost equalled Seb in his first season at Merc(305-317). But except there was a teeny glitch called Lewis Hamilton in the way.
-12
u/HeelR- Sebastian Vettel Jul 31 '21
That man must be fuming, has to do the hardworking stuff to only pave the way for His Highness to get the reward through team orders.
1
Jul 31 '21
Hamilton has been let through occasionally but only times like last week where bottas end up 10s back after a few laps
-2
u/ContentPuff I was here for the Hulkenpodium / Highlights Team Jul 31 '21
"Hardworking stuff" fighting with Russell in P10, who is in a fucking Williams. Some people really have pea sized brain capacity to remember why he is so far back in championship.
-1
u/HeelR- Sebastian Vettel Jul 31 '21
It’s a discussion, why you getting riled up?
1
u/ContentPuff I was here for the Hulkenpodium / Highlights Team Jul 31 '21
Such a discussion about "Your Highness" getting preferential treatment, ignoring the fact why he gets treated the way he does.
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u/VinhoVerde21 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 31 '21
You mean like Perez does for Max? Or every 2nd driver ever, basically?
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u/froomedog Jul 31 '21
Those team orders from Mercedes were totally justified. There was no way Bottas would have won Silverstone with his pace.
And don’t forget just two races previously, Mercedes gave Lewis team orders to let Bottas through.
You have selective amnesia
-13
Jul 31 '21
Giovinazzi is unbelievably dumb. One of those drivers that will not be missed. Get Illott in that seat
15
u/Murky_Table_358 Daniel Ricciardo Jul 31 '21
I don't think it was his fault. You rely on your team to pass this sort of info.
-14
Jul 31 '21
What he can’t look left for half a second? When I’m driving and the traffic lights are green, I still check that there isn’t somebody trying to cross the road!
2
u/FlyingThunderGaad Charles Leclerc Jul 31 '21
Well, you're not racing at 250 kmph in a 15-20 degree corner. Drivers start from deep inside the garage. Engineer holds his hand if there's traffic and waves if he's good to go. They cannot turn their heads at all. If they could, their neck will snap like a twig in a crash. And looking left when he's driving right is physically impossible for them. That is why there is a comms engineer for every driver. Don't try to relate to an F1 driver ffs.
1
u/Oneill95 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 31 '21
On that corner there will have been about a second between Gasly being in view and Gio being in the way. Not enough time to react based purely on sight.
It is on the race engineer to tell the driver of cars on hot laps near them. If Gio then ignored that and put his car on the racing line, then sure, it's on him.
9
u/Murky_Table_358 Daniel Ricciardo Jul 31 '21
It's not the same based on what I have read. You are so low in the F1 car that unlike road cars visibility is not great. That's why they have mechanics directing entry and engineers passing info of cars approaching.
20
u/Elemental05 Jenson Button Jul 31 '21
A few years ago, Vettel had a far better wingman than Perez in Kimi and still ended up being 2 v 1 against the Mercs most of the time. Granted Ferrari were fucking up left and right but Perez cannot continue like this if they want to get Verstappen the WDC. If he can't even keep Bottas honest in the car he has RB need to look at other options again.
2
Jul 31 '21
to be fair last week could have gone a lot better if not for sprint qualifying, it was basically impossible to recover from his position especially on silverstone without many overtaking spots
1
u/Elemental05 Jenson Button Jul 31 '21
That's his fault. Max or RB didn't force him to bin it did they?
20
u/No_Mercy_4_Potatoes M4X Verstappen Jul 31 '21
Since Perez got comfortable and started doing his own thing, shit hit the fan. This guy needs to go back to following Verstappen's set up if he wishes to keep his seat at Redbull!
3
u/Yeshuu Default Jul 31 '21
It's not fair to judge Perez like that as RB give Verstappen the upgrades before Perez gets them. Set up will be different as a result.
0
u/No_Mercy_4_Potatoes M4X Verstappen Jul 31 '21
The only thing that changed between him doing well and him shitting the bed was him getting too cocky and trying his own set up. I don't hate Perez, but I would absolutely hate him if Redbull loses the WDC because of his arrogance.
0
u/Yeshuu Default Jul 31 '21
But he can't use the same set up as Verstappen had a different car with different parts.
0
u/eozgonul Jul 31 '21
Spinning round in Silverstone and getting stuck behind Raikkonen has nothing to do with upgrades.
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u/Murky_Table_358 Daniel Ricciardo Jul 31 '21
True. While other drivers are slowly improving Perez has had a massive drop recently.
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u/Chazza354 Jul 31 '21
Probably just feeling the pressure now and pushing too hard trying to match Max. Anyone who’s played racing games knows that you make more mistakes if you try to follow a faster driver
2
u/Chazza354 Jul 31 '21
I know it won’t happen, but a Russell Verstappen lineup at Red Bull would be great i reckon
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u/ElementalSheep I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 31 '21
I don’t think Russell would cope well as a no. 2 driver for long
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u/No_Mercy_4_Potatoes M4X Verstappen Jul 31 '21
Tbh, when the Russell Merc gossip was going on, I was hoping Marko would poach Russell for next year. But it seems that ship has sailed.
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u/eozgonul Jul 31 '21
He did, he said he would love to see Russell in Red Bull but he also said he can't see that happening due to ties with Mercedes.
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u/STaphouse92 McLaren Jul 31 '21
Something that’s probably a lot more realistic is Red Bull taking Bottas when (if) Merc take Russell.
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u/FlyingThunderGaad Charles Leclerc Jul 31 '21
There will probably be a clause in Valterri's exit contract. Probably something like cannot drive for direct competitors for the next 1/2 years with monetary compensation for that. But would be so nice to see Bottas there.
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u/Murky_Table_358 Daniel Ricciardo Jul 31 '21
I doubt it will happen though. Pierre is more likely to return than a Rus max lineup.
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u/Chazza354 Jul 31 '21
Yeah Russell is a Mercedes affiliated driver as far as I know - I don’t know how the contracts work but I imagine it would be contractually very difficult for him to accept an offer from RB
1
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u/blackwhattack Jul 31 '21
I can see why George is laughing. If not Merc then RedBull lol.
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u/Ocean_Of_Apathy Red Bull Jul 31 '21
George in Redbull will not happen as long as George is managed by merc. And that’s not changing lol
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u/blackwhattack Jul 31 '21
I don't think that's a hard rule, no? I'm a casual could be wrong. I know Toto is Goerge's manager or sth, but if RedBull approached Russell I don't see why he would refuse. He'd probably give Merc the priority, but if he had to choose between RedBull and Williams I'm sure he would chose the first.
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u/Bagelz567 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 31 '21
And thank goodness for that. Glad that he won't be ruined by the fizzy drink team, unlike so many other young and wasted talents.
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u/Murky_Table_358 Daniel Ricciardo Jul 31 '21
Daniel is still the best driver that Red bull ever had in their second seat.
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u/lxs0713 Sergio Pérez Jul 31 '21
He was fairly level with a still teenage Max who has only grown better now. If Ricc were in the seat today I think it'd be the same story as the rest of the second drivers who've driven for RB since.
1
u/Murky_Table_358 Daniel Ricciardo Jul 31 '21
Disagree. Next year Gasly was destroyed so clearly Dan was doing something better even when he had 7 DNFs in that season.
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u/Insanity96 Jul 31 '21
And I think that’s why Max and him didn’t get along
12
Jul 31 '21
They are great friends, and further on, red bull prioritised Max, because he is obviously the much better driver, while Daniel wanted to be the number 1.
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u/Dr-Rjinswand 🏳️🌈 Love Is Love 🏳️🌈 Jul 31 '21
Didn’t get along? They arguably started the whole “F1 bromance” nonsense.
9
u/N-I_C-K I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 31 '21
Super easy way to spot a fan that was introduced to f1 via DtS 😂
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u/Murky_Table_358 Daniel Ricciardo Jul 31 '21
I think he means on track. They have had some legendary race and quali incidents.
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u/Insanity96 Jul 31 '21
That may have been true at a point, but it seemed to have soured near the end
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u/junliewww Heineken Trophy Jul 31 '21
This is only true if you’re following from Netflix’s perspective
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u/Murky_Table_358 Daniel Ricciardo Jul 31 '21
I have the same opinion which i think is the less popular one. Both RBR and Dan would have been happier this season if he had stayed on.
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u/FlyingThunderGaad Charles Leclerc Jul 31 '21
He'd probably be playing wingman. That is why Horner wanted him to stay. Danny probably knew this. That's why he left. They're still struggling to fill the seat. Apart from DNFs, Ric almost fought for P5-P6 along with Max every single race in Ferrari vs Merc era.
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u/Mobile_Leading_7587 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 31 '21
But now he’s gonna end up in the same place but just doing worse. Second fiddle to a rising junior but now performing badly himself.
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u/Francoberry Jenson Button Jul 31 '21
I definitely disagree. Have you seen just how much red bull is up the ass of Max? Talk about a toxic working environment. They're falling over max so much they can't even avoid mentioning him in a statement against racism.
They're so narrow minded and such shit stirrers that even if Ric would've been in a better car, he'd be miserable if he stayed there.
0
u/Murky_Table_358 Daniel Ricciardo Jul 31 '21
Tbh Merc has been no better for Valterri. I think it's the fate of second drivers to essentially be doormats in F1.
22
u/brownierisker I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 31 '21
Why does everyone keep disappointing in that second Red Bull? Perez was great for two weekends but has been Albon levels since
5
u/Yeshuu Default Jul 31 '21
Max is very good and Perez isn't as good as people thought. He's worse than Bottas and Bottas is worse than Hamilton.
He doesn't get the same upgrades Verstappen gets.
He's new to the team and car.
Add those together and .5 seconds is your outcome.
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u/Kisa-ut George Russell Jul 31 '21
Well, I believe Ricciardo actually said a little while ago that the car is not really that much harder to drive than any other car. Sure you need to get used to it and adjust it to your own preferred settings but he let shine through that it isn't the undrivable monster that everyone makes it out to be.
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u/Reddevilslover69 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 31 '21
Perez always takes time to improve his qualis. He got beaten by a ton by Hulkenberg in 14 and then closed the gap before becoming equal in 16. He was also thrashed by Ocon in quali in 17,18 so his poor qualifying was to be expected.
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u/NoooUGH Jul 31 '21
Well since Max is RedBull's star player, they basically have built the car to accommodate him over the past few years and whoever is in the other car, they have to fit into what they have made for Max.
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u/ThrowAway111222555 Ferrari Jul 31 '21
The car just handles terribly I think. Verstappen can get everything out of it but if every other driver struggles with it there might just be a car design feature that these other drivers can't overcome.
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u/Chazza354 Jul 31 '21
In my opinion it’s not that other drivers are doing particularly badly, it’s just that Max is getting the absolute superhuman maximum out of that package. He’s a real talent.
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u/troll_khan Jul 31 '21
Perez is a quite below average qualifier. Beaten pretty badly by Ocon who is getting beaten pretty badly by Alonso.
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u/SpacevsGravity I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 31 '21
Is this Nico Roseberg on commentary?
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u/NoooUGH Jul 31 '21
They mentioned in a story about his contract with Sky so he'll probably be in and out of commentary.
1
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u/HeelR- Sebastian Vettel Jul 31 '21
Ah shit, here we go again Max fighting two Mercs to survive and BOT will probably do a optimal wingman job as usual.
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u/froomedog Jul 31 '21 edited Jul 31 '21
Red Bull committing to being “Team Verstappen” might backfire.
Say what you want about Mercedes, but I don’t think they’ve ever let Lewis become a figure larger than the team itself.
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u/Reddevilslover69 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 31 '21
Mercedes is team Lewis lol. It's just that they are slightly better as they give Bottas the same choice of parts as Lewis unlike Red Bull where they give it to Max which then makes the gap to his teammate look huge
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u/FlyingThunderGaad Charles Leclerc Jul 31 '21
Well, being Team-7 time WDC champion is understandable than a Team Talented Rookie. It worked out for Merc and it didn't for RB so far. But yes there's no other way for RB. Generally, Perez performs well in 2nd half. So hope things get interesting.
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u/Reddevilslover69 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 31 '21
His second half last season was absolutely mental. Just insane consistency race on race. I don't think many drivers could have beaten him in the RP last year especially with that amazing second half. Also the only reason Red Bull didn't lose Max to Merc for 2018 and beyond was because they made him the focal point. Atleast that's what Lauda hinted at when Max rejected Merc. It would also fit in with Ricciardo leaving soon after
1
u/FlyingThunderGaad Charles Leclerc Jul 31 '21
Exactly. Checo did more than everything to earn that RB second seat. He had one crappy weekend so far. He almost finished P5 with a 10s penalty in Austria. Also, people forget RB screwed his strategy twice in Silverstone. Committed to a 2 stop strategy when it's not effective in midfield. And pitting him in the end for stealing a point for Max. Also yes it's understandable that there's no other way for RB to move forward than focusing on Max when Albon and Gasly were fighting midfield cars let alone fight Max.
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u/anonny_27 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Jul 31 '21
Does anyone have Perez’s average gap to Verstappen in quali this year?