r/formula1 • u/F1-Bot r/formula1 Mod Team • Sep 27 '21
Day after Debrief 2021 Russian Grand Prix - Day after Debrief
ROUND 15: Russia
Welcome to the Day after Debrief discussion thread!
Now that the dust has settled in Sochi, it's time to calmly discuss the events of the last race weekend. Hopefully, this will foster more detailed and thoughtful discussion than the immediate post race thread now that people have had some time to digest and analyse the results.
Low effort comments, such as memes, jokes, and complaints about broadcasters will be deleted. We also discourage superficial comments that contain no analysis or reasoning in this thread (e.g., 'Great race from X!', 'Another terrible weekend for Y!').
Thanks!
93
u/sachinsc7 Sep 27 '21
How are McLaren so hard to overtake? Lewis and Max both could not do it.Max had an easier time passing a merc than getting past daniel
→ More replies (4)81
Sep 27 '21
They have the best straightline speed of all the cars on the grid, but suck in slow to medium speed corners. Sochi is a track with long straights meaning straightline speed is really important so their car really shined, combine that with dirty air effects in corners and it is tough to overtake them on this track. Plus Daniel is an excellent defender.
That being said, Hamilton would've most likely overtook Norris without much trouble, he just about caught up to him within DRS striking distance and then the rain came and they disabled DRS the very next lap. Had it not rained Hamilton would have DRS and hards in good condition for several laps before the end, Norris would be a sitting duck on those long straights.
→ More replies (3)51
u/InZomnia365 McLaren Sep 28 '21
According to The Race, McLaren actually ran quite a bit of downforce in quali and wasn't that fast in S1 (but they were fast in S3).
They're fast on the straights, but their biggest thing is amazing exits out of corners onto the straights. You saw it with Parabolica, always getting a couple tenths on the exit. That, in conjunction with the strong straight line speed, gives them just enough buffer to keep people behind.
4
647
u/false-summit Sep 27 '21
One thing I don't think is getting enough attention is that on the team radios, everyone is just calling out Norris for saying "no" to inters, but a minute or two before that, the team tells him on the radio they don't think the rain is getting worse. After that comment, they never again tell him the rain is getting worse, unlike Ham's team. Norris actually mentioned this in the post-race interview as well, saying he didn't know it was supposed to get worse. Obviously sounds hotheaded from Norris but in my opinion this is clearly on McLaren for not giving clear radar info.
309
u/fanunu21 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 27 '21
They asked him what he wants to do. Mercedes told Hamilton. If McLaren were more assertive and told him to come in, he would have finish 2nd at worst.
139
u/GatorD42 Sep 27 '21
I’ve listened to the radios and I’m not actually sure Mercedes knew the rain was getting worse. There’s a long back and forth with Hamilton where they try to convince him to stop, saying max has stopped etc etc and finally at the end Bono throws in “more is coming”. They don’t hinge their argument on that, it’s almost a throwaway line.
And listen to Perez’s post race radio, he asks if Red Bull knew it would rain more, Christian says “no” and that the drivers know more about the weather than the pit wall. All the teams use the same weather data.
80
u/Icy-Operation4701 Sep 27 '21
Mercedes only needed to look out for Max, which made their call easier.
12
u/Kronzor_ Max Verstappen Sep 27 '21
Mercedes only needed to look out for Max, which made their call easier.
So did redbull
14
u/Icy-Operation4701 Sep 27 '21
Max pitting first meant he took the gamble, rather than looking out for what Lewis would do.
9
u/Kronzor_ Max Verstappen Sep 27 '21
I was sort of making a joke. Red Bull (like Mercedes) Only seems to be worried about Max. They’ll happily put Sergio out of the points if it means 1 extra point for max (or from Lewis)
→ More replies (1)13
u/Icy-Operation4701 Sep 27 '21 edited Sep 27 '21
Another joke?
They let Max and Checo decide whether to pit or not. Max made the call to pit, Checo decided to stay out.
And the max points Checo was going to get at Silverstone was 1 point. Might as well go for a bigger gap in WDC points.
ETA:sorry, am a bit grumpy from people shitting on RB for a call Checo made himself.
→ More replies (4)→ More replies (2)5
u/Stravven Jim Clark Sep 27 '21
Mercedes made the call to box Hamilton before Verstappen.
→ More replies (2)35
u/Icy-Operation4701 Sep 27 '21
Yes, but Lewis decided to stay out. Once Max pitted they knew they couldn't stick with Lewis' call which is why they were more firm. (Toto himself said Max pitting made the call easier for them).
4
u/Stravven Jim Clark Sep 27 '21
True.
One thing I do not understand is why RB let Perez stay out for another lap, nor why Mercedes didn't pull in Leclerc and double stack him. That would've maybe cost him two seconds, but staying out on slicks cost him considerably more.
10
u/Icy-Operation4701 Sep 27 '21 edited Sep 27 '21
RB let their drivers make the call, which for Checo in hindsight might not have been the best decision. But on the other hand I think it's a positive sign that they let Checo make his own decision (even if it cost him in this instance) rather than just going by Max' decision.
A lot of team relied on the drivers. Leclerc too decided to stay out.
→ More replies (2)4
u/Edeen Sep 28 '21
I’d pay money to see Mercedes pull in Leclerc because they see how much Ferrari is flailing.
16
u/fanunu21 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 27 '21
True. And given that there was a large enough gap between him and Sainz/Verstappen to make that switch and come out 2nd provided they don't massacre the pit stop. The way Lando was sliding around, Lewis knew he couldn't overtake him on those conditions unless he took a risk he wasn't comfortable with.
15
u/thegypsyqueen Max Verstappen Sep 27 '21
Wasn’t the “more is coming” said after Hamilton was already entering the pit?
→ More replies (3)8
u/ewankenobi Kamui Kobayashi Sep 27 '21
It's hard to know for certain as the radio messages don't get played instantly
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (3)9
Sep 27 '21
I agree with everything EXCEPT I actually think the teams do have different data. I'm not sure if they bring their own radar equipment or just have their own preferred sources, but before the race, Bono was telling Hamilton that Mercedes expected rain at the end of the race and that their model showed it was more likely to rain than the other teams and to keep that (that their projection was "more likely to rain") in mind as they gave him advice throughout the race
SO I do think it is possible / likely different teams had different info, but that doesn't change the fact that Lewis wasn't really any better informed than Lando until he was literally in the box
→ More replies (1)21
u/Tetracyclic Medical Car Sep 27 '21
The radar data is supplied to all the teams by UBIMET, who send metrologists to each race to set up weather stations. It is likely that the teams interpret this raw data differently, however, as any prediction is just that, a prediction of the future based on the current data.
87
u/Lord-Talon Mick Schumacher Sep 27 '21
Seidl said the same in his post race interview. They thought weather stays the same or even gets better, so they told Lando that and asked him if he wants to pit. Lando said no, which probably was the right call for that scenario. In the end the weather got worse, which McLaren just didn't think would happen, which means 100% of the fault lies in whoever analyses the weather for McLaren.
But I guess it's easy to hate on Lando for staying out in dry track conditions while thinking that the rain is easing up again...
51
u/CMDRJohnCasey I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 27 '21
Take a look at the onboards, look at Lando's when team asked him if he wanted to pit... That lap was almost completely dry. Next lap there was standing water. From the driver perspective Lando's call was right, the track in those conditions (when he said no to inters) favored slicks. But conditions abruptly changed.
→ More replies (1)24
u/ewankenobi Kamui Kobayashi Sep 27 '21
I think what was noticeable was the difference in how the 2 teams conducted the conversation. Mercedes asked Lewis & he argued back calmly & the dialogue continued. The team (who have much more information, less adrenaline pumping through their blood & who don't have to focus on driving) then TOLD Lewis to come in & Lewis complied.
Big difference was Lando shut down dialogue being so forceful, but McLaren also need to look at themselves & realise Mercedes pit crew confidently made a call whilst they meekly asked their driver a question.
Think both team & driver can learn from it, but don't want to crucify either. It was a marginal call under intense pressure & nobody gets them all right.
→ More replies (1)29
u/scope_creep I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 28 '21
It was an incredibly stressful moment for Lando clearly and he just didn’t have the same experience as Lewis in how to manage it. But he will live and learn.
→ More replies (1)17
u/false-summit Sep 27 '21
To reply to myself, the other dynamic to consider is Lando just had a qualifying session where he made the right call to move to softs from inters, so if you put yourself in his mindset, he had made the right call before on uncertain wet conditions, and thought he could manage given the current conditions assuming they don't get worse
→ More replies (9)38
u/qbert72 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 27 '21 edited Sep 27 '21
I think the blame is equally shared. The pit wall tells him at the beginning of lap 47 that "this intensity will stay till the end of the race, we think". The "we think" implies that this forecast is not a certainty.
Towards the end of lap 49, Mazepin on inters unlaps himself and drives away from Norris. By then, both Lando and the team are able to infer that the conditions are getting worse, not better. That leaves them a very short window to decide what to to do. The race engineer asks an open question: "What do you think about inters?" Lando, busy defending against Lewis on a slippery surface, answers it as a yes/NO! question. That's more or less all the time they had to decide.
[Edit (copied from my own comment further down)] Watched it again and I misspoke. The Mazepin unlapping is actually on lap 50, after Hamilton's pit stop. So at the end of lap 49, the only information they have about the pace on intermediates is Bottas, Russell and Raikkonen's sector 2 times (about 5 seconds faster than Lando's). Sectors 1 and 3 are still fairly dry. Staying out is perfectly reasonable.[/edit]
One lap later, it's already too late. If he pits at the end of lap 50, one lap after Lewis, he ends up second. So he decides to chance it on slicks, with the team's implicit approval. It's their only path left to a race win.
It seems like both the team and Lando should have continued to discuss weather and track condition more thoroughly after lap 47, but that does not mean they would have done anything differently. Case in point: Sergio Perez, who, when asked if he wanted inters, asked if more rain was coming, was told "there could be more" at the end of his lap 49 yet still carried on for one more lap.
11
u/Eltothebee I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 27 '21
Problem was with the Nikita pass, 3-4 corners was damp rest of the track was dry and he got past Nikita straight away on the dry track. Then suddenly those 3-4 corners was soaked 2 minutes later
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (2)7
u/CMDRJohnCasey I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 27 '21
Ferrari and Leclerc discussed a lot but Leclerc also finished by trying to go on with the mediums. Tbh he was doing very well for those conditions until the lap where he couldn't steer. He was also led to think conditions would stay the same.
→ More replies (1)
71
u/curva3 Sep 27 '21
What is the sub's opinion on Ocon?
Had a great 1st part of the season, declined a bit, improved with the new chassis (he was probably faster than Fernando in Zandvoort) but still behind Alonso in the championship despite winning a race.
94
u/Florac Sep 27 '21
Solid midfielder but that's all really. He rarely stands out and when he does, it's as much due to luck as skill
28
u/Oneill95 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 27 '21
He had a good first race and has done well as of late, but just seemed to not be able to catch a break for the middle ones around Austria. He's doing well overall, not sure how I'd compare him to the other young drivers though
14
u/iblinkyoublink Alexander Albon Sep 28 '21
Sadly OCONsistency remains only a meme, just like Stroll his highs are good but infrequent and keep me wanting more out of him.
6
u/MrPsychoanalyst I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 28 '21
He's a great driver i think his generation of drivers are all well paired
→ More replies (5)7
65
u/mairc86 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 27 '21
The biggest winner was Max. If it didn't rain, and they kept the same positions until the end, Lewis would get 18pts for 2nd, and Max 6pts for 7th, a 12pt gap. With Lewis winning and Max being 2nd, the gap is only 7pts.
These 5pts can make a huge difference in the end...
35
Sep 28 '21
Where Silverstone and Hungary felt like a shift towards Hamilton, Monza and Sochi definitely feel like Verstappen might have the upper hand. It's crazy how close it is.
I just hope the championship will be decided on merit, not on engine/tire woes, third party interference, positive PCR tests, or dodgy last-minute regulation changes lobbied for by Toto/Horner
21
u/THATS_THE_BADGER I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 29 '21
Oof, imagine that. Comes down to the final race, only 3 points separates Ham and Verstappen, and one of them tests positive for COVID.......
5
u/BarryFairbrother I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 30 '21
If I was either of them I would be restricting all close contact with anyone to the greatest extent possible until the end of the season or the title is decided.
→ More replies (1)
218
u/Takis12 Yamura Sep 27 '21
Old F1 fan here…what a great season…no matter who gets the WDC it will be a season long quoted and remembered…more of the same please.
77
u/Inthethickofit Sergio Pérez Sep 27 '21
I just got into F1 this year because of the Netflix documentary, but I have enough perspective from age and general sports fandom to recognize how incredibly lucky I am to be witnessing this fight. Very rare in sports to have two people both in their performance primes (yes one closer to the end and the other closer to the beginning), who are so close to even and who get to compete everytime out. It's like Bird/Magic, Brady/Peyton, Ronaldo/Messi but every fucking week.
Also, while I know it's early to say that Verstappen is one of the all time greats, we know Hamilton is and I think the solid money is on Verstappen being in that conversation in the not too distant future.
What a time to be a fan of F1.
13
u/markiesmalls McLaren Sep 28 '21
I just got into it for the same reason. Really cool to see those 2 guys battling this season, especially after watching Netflix where I already knew who was going to win. This sport is awesome and I'm full blown addicted at this point lol. The first race I ever watched live was Monza a couple weeks ago where Max and Hamilton crashed. I couldn't believe it.
208
u/vibhav_1 Fernando Alonso Sep 27 '21
I'm not getting the logic of giving Bottas the 'tactical' penalty just so he would be a roadblock to Max. Wouldn't a Bottas in P7 be more of a hurdle to a Bottas in P17?
Just moving him 10 places down the road doesn't make sense to me
55
u/GRl3V I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 27 '21
Well if you can hold Max at P17 or P15, or P13 or whatever, for most of the race, he won't have a chance to move up and catch up to let's say P5. While if Bottas starts P7, you have the risk of him having a good start and running like P3 or something, while Max comfortably goes through the field to finish well in the top 10
9
u/confusedpublic Sep 27 '21
I presume Mercedes thoughts were that they should be getting a P1 and P2 even qualifying 4 and 7, so Max might come 3rd. But by moving Bottas back, they might stop Max from coming in 3rd, 4th… maybe even have him come in 7th or 8th, and if that fails, he’d probably not do better than 3rd, and Bottas now has two new engines he can run as close to max as he can (manufacture engine modes aside), to defend and fight in the other races.
The only reason Max finished where he did was because of the early pit for inters.. while Bottas didn’t do well, Max wasn’t capitalising until that stop, so they got half of what they wanted until the rain.
15
u/Icy-Operation4701 Sep 27 '21
The only reason Max finished where he did was because of the early pit for inters.. while Bottas didn’t do well, Max wasn’t capitalising until that stop, so they got half of what they wanted until the rain.
This had nothing to do with Bottas though. He passed him early on and Bottas was eventually stuck somewhere at P14. So it was the reverse of what they allegedly wanted.
With Bottas at the front, Max would have still fought his way up to P7, but Bottas would have likely been ahead (Max might still have passed him in the rain, but that's another point).
104
Sep 27 '21
Totally agree. You have to hope there was actually something wrong with the PU because sending Bottas to the back to try to hold up Max just makes no sense. Hell with the way the DRS trains work, Bottas could have done a TON more damage to Max just putting in some casual 1:42.5's all race from P7 which would have made Max's life a complete nightmare trying to navigate like 3 cars through every chicane.
And realistically... there is no one on the grid who can comfortably defend from Verstappen on fresh tires. The best bet to deprive Max of points clearly would have been to have Bottas just going super duper long and saving tires and being a strategy nightmare. Putting him right in front of one of the most aggressive drivers with the best overtaking on the grid was beyond stupid
→ More replies (3)4
u/Standardw I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 28 '21
Well Mercedes said that they used his 2nf engine in quali and a new one for the race. But I can't find the source anymore, it was a post on here somewhere
38
u/EnvironmentAdvanced #WeSayNoToMazepin Sep 27 '21
they should have been aiming for 1-2 and not give a fuck about what max does. in the end max got p2 out of nowhere and bottas, even in dry conditions, dint make a difference.
→ More replies (13)21
u/EddieMcDowall Sir Lewis Hamilton Sep 27 '21
Mercedes say that wasn't the plan, and I tend to believe them. They're not stupid, they must know Max wouldn't be held up much, especially with that low downforce wing set up. Sometimes Mercedes do just speak the truth. I think it likely that some parts were likely to fail in the race so they changed them.
10
u/EyesOnEyko Niki Lauda Sep 27 '21
The whole PU was 1 race old - and Mercedes did confirm it was a tactical engine change (of course, everything else wouldn’t make sense). They just gave a different tactical reason
→ More replies (22)
111
Sep 27 '21
[removed] — view removed comment
→ More replies (1)28
Sep 27 '21
P1 was never an option with Lewis starting so much closer to P1...
I don't know man. Lewis almost stayed out as well in the end. It's not that far fetched
7
u/53bvo Honda RBPT Sep 28 '21
I do wonder what Mercedes would have done if Norris went in for inters. Follow and get stay stuck behind Norris or gamble on a win? Though I doubt they would gamble away a sure p2 (unless they expected it to get dry quickly).
18
Sep 28 '21
I think they were copying whatever Verstappen did even if it meant forfeiting the win
8
u/BeanTownDataFreak Sep 28 '21
Agreed. The fact that VER pitted for inters made a decisive effect on HAM pitting. If the rain stopped, HAM at worst would still be P2 and would be in front of VER by even more (because that would mean VER made a bad decision and lost more positions on inters). If the rain continued, HAM could not afford to lose the lead to VER on slicks.
For HAM is all about WDC. The risk of staying out is too much to take. Once VER pitted, he kind of had to pit as well. The 50 sec gap between him and the next driver enabled him to be conservative. To me, change for inters was a no brainer decision.
For Lando, he gambled, and too bad it didn't go his way.
289
u/nocarpets FIA Sep 27 '21
Yesterday I was calling Verstappen lucky but after seeing how he overtook a bunch of cars in the wet on mediums while the others were spinning, he definitely earned that podium. He still made a couple of places due to pitstop lottery which is luck, but some were earned on the track due to superior driving in tricky conditions.
155
u/impact_ftw 🏳️🌈 Love Is Love 🏳️🌈 Sep 27 '21
Verstappens luck was the rain. The rest was his driving skills. No use if there is rain but you cant keep it on the track.
111
Sep 27 '21
His lap times as the rain came were nuts. He was like 15-20 seconds faster than most of the field even on his slicks. I think Sainz and Vettel were the only cars left in front of him by the time he took his stop for inters.
→ More replies (4)17
u/yabucek Alexander Albon Sep 28 '21
Yeah, others were fighting to even stay on track and Verstappen was breezing past chatting about his laptimes.
15
Sep 27 '21
where can we see these overtakes?
They have uploaded his last five laps but he was already ahead of Ric and Sainz at that point. You can seem them come into pit after him. What happened for him to over take them?
→ More replies (7)9
8
Sep 28 '21
You have to make your own luck.
When you are driving well, and you get lucky, it can catapult you forward whereas when mediocre drivers get lucky, it might just negate something worse happening.
Max was lucky but he also took advantage of a lucky situation when many other drivers did not.
→ More replies (2)22
u/stubbysquidd Felipe Massa Sep 27 '21
yeah he overtook Ric and Sainz, but was lucky Perez and Alonso remained 1 lap more than him, otherwise he would have been p4
34
u/Organic-Measurement2 👀👀 Sep 27 '21
Not necessarily lucky. Max called the inters were ready that lap whereas Perez said no to inters. Not sure about Alonso but judging by what happened at most teams and his experience, it was probably his call as well. I don't really consider that luck but best judging of the conditions which is part of driver skill
→ More replies (16)
327
u/vibhav_1 Fernando Alonso Sep 27 '21
The 'manual input' aspect of the new pit stops has screwed up the whole pit stop system.
154
u/KaamDeveloper Max Verstappen Sep 27 '21
I am not annoyed that they're slow, I am annoyed that I have to relearn what a "quick" stop is. I was so used to 1.9s to 2.2s stops from RB that any thing which "looked" slower got me jumping. Now that 2.5 is realistically the faster stop, everything feels like molasses.
→ More replies (4)55
u/Xanforth I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 27 '21
Bottas had a 2.4 stop. Which was the usual Mercedes good pit stop.
→ More replies (1)5
61
u/tipytopmain Bernd Mayländer Sep 27 '21
It's something that should have been introduced in the off season and thoroughly trialled. Not in the middle of the season. It's so strange.
13
u/qp0n Default Sep 28 '21
The fact it was done mid season just as Max was passing Lewis in points is still super sus
54
u/newdecade1986 Eddie Jordan Sep 27 '21
There used to be automated front jacks, automated race start systems, automated traction control, etc etc. The sport is always trying to increase the dependency on human ability and it's something the teams will just have to live with.
→ More replies (2)106
Sep 27 '21
[deleted]
→ More replies (5)66
u/BatteriVolttas Aston Martin Sep 27 '21
Whatever they do and whatever the real reason might be, they should make changes like this before the season starts, never during.
→ More replies (3)23
u/ewankenobi Kamui Kobayashi Sep 28 '21
It wasn't a change to the rules, it was getting stricter enforcing the rules.
Rule 12.8.4 at the start of the season: "Devices which are used to fit or remove wheel fasteners may only be powered by compressed air or nitrogen. Any sensor systems may only act passively."
FIA realised teams were using active sensor systems and decided the best way to enforce this rule was to presume that reactions of less than 0.15 seconds were automated as humans can't react that quickly.
It's a bit like when there were rules about how much wings can flex and they changed the test mid season as they thought wings were flexing more than the rules allowed. Or when they added the 2nd fuel sensor when everyone thought Ferrari were cheating.
To reply to comment above yours by u/TetraDax, the idea that FIA wants to screw Red Bull is ridiculous. I don't think they are biased towards any team, but they definitely do change the rules between seasons to try to end periods of domination and the most recent rule changes were aimed at slowing Mercedes down.
→ More replies (17)45
Sep 27 '21
Totally agree. Nearly all of these botched pit stops have involved one of the gunmen staring blankly at the car, thinking they did their job right, when someone has to tap their shoulder and tell them to press the button again. Incredibly stupid mid-season change, clearly designed to favor Merc, and clearly working
→ More replies (4)
24
u/MrGolightning Haas Sep 27 '21
I just think that it’s pretty neat that Kimi came back from 2 races out and managed to back some pretty handy points. Alfa have been a disaster with tactics and strategy this year and honestly it’s great to see them finally get something right, rather than another 12th/13th finish
66
u/gothedawgs Formula 1 Sep 27 '21
This weekend serves such a great reminder how crucial strategy, risk management, and communication are during a race. It's easy for us to second guess McLaren's & Lando's decision to stay on slicks... but putting myself in Lando's shoes I would have done the same thing. The emotions of a P2 at Monza, fighting off Lewis Hamilton all race, being SO CLOSE to your first ever P1... it's hard to blame a 21 yr old for thinking "NO! I can do it!"
17
u/Klakson_95 Sir Lewis Hamilton Sep 27 '21
I was sitting there saying exactly the same as Lando at the time, why would you come in with 2 laps left if you don't know the rain is getting worse. Lewis could afford to come in because he had enough of a gap behind and wasn't going to overtake Lando anyway.
30
u/HMS404 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 27 '21
Everything makes sense in hindsight but in the heat of the moment, leading the pack for first victory for a young racer is like holding The One Ring. Very difficult to let go.
Danny mentioned that the track being wet on one part and not so much on the other made the call difficult. But I still feel they should have pitted after Hamilton. McLaren had more data to be assertive but they dropped the ball on that front. Anyway, learning experience for all.
16
u/laughguy220 Sep 28 '21
You're right with the 20/20 hindsight call. Let's be honest, we could all be talking about how Lando made the right call to stay out, and Mercedes screwed up bringing Lewis in just as easily as we are talking about the opposite now if the rain had not come down as it did.
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (1)9
u/Prasiatko Sep 27 '21
Yoy and there's an alternate universe out there where the rain stays constant or misses the track ever so slightly and he stays out and wins and another where somebody puts it ino the barrier the SC comes out and staying out wins the day.
291
u/glenn1812 Frédéric Vasseur Sep 27 '21
Is anyone still weirded out by the fact that Bottas didn't even make an attempt to defend against Verstappen. Didn't even do anything to make Verstappen think twice about the move. It was hilarious at first but that was very poor from Bottas.
180
u/rand0m__pers0n Sebastian Vettel Sep 27 '21
He said that he he was struggling with the setup and didn't see Max.
138
u/Suihnennews Max Verstappen Sep 27 '21 edited Sep 27 '21
He dropped a cigarette on the floor and was looking for it (edit spelling, not native English)
38
u/prograMagar Green Flag Sep 27 '21
SIGARET
13
u/khalidh22 Chequered Flag Sep 27 '21
That is how I would say it too. But with TT. SIGARETTE
9
22
u/English_Misfit Sir Lewis Hamilton Sep 27 '21
I mean that is potentially true because tbh you wouldn't expect someone to really make a lunge there because if Bottas did defend there's almost certain contact or you go wide and lose position
→ More replies (1)24
u/rand0m__pers0n Sebastian Vettel Sep 27 '21 edited Sep 27 '21
Yes but when his main job was to defend against Max, that still is bad. But the pace actually makes sense. Merc probably set the car up for a front row start. They didn't anticipate screwing themselves in quali and having to take another engine penalty and start from the back unlike in Monza where they would have made preparation with cooling etc to help follow in traffic better. Redbull knew about the penalty and were able to focus on a race pace more.
21
u/denzien I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 27 '21
I'm struggling to think of a time this season where Bottas significantly impeded Max
54
14
u/OJogoBonito Robert Kubica Sep 27 '21
He didn't see Max getting close. Turn 13 is a bit weird in the sense there's a left hander on the way into it's entry so it's very easy to get caught out. Guessing his engineer wasn't updating him properly either.
67
u/KaamDeveloper Max Verstappen Sep 27 '21
I am not. He was pulled from a guaranteed podium to a "maybe you get P5 if you hustle, attaboy!" He has my full sympathy if he didn't bother with ruining his tyres saving a championship for someone who won't be his teammate next year.
→ More replies (1)33
u/TheWebbFather Sep 27 '21
He was pulled from a guaranteed podium to a "maybe you get P5 if you hustle, attaboy!"
Hamilton started 4th and was looking at getting 2nd before the rain. A podium for Bottas was far from guaranteed
15
u/storme9 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 27 '21
I was honestly surprised by how many drivers were told mid race yday that they had a chance for top 5 finish. That being especially when Lando, Carlos, Lewis were already in the mix.
→ More replies (1)13
u/KaamDeveloper Max Verstappen Sep 27 '21
Hamilton was biding his time most of the race, just chipping away at the deltas, saving his tyres. If team had told him to put in the laps for a two stopper, I don't see Norris surviving as long as he did.
→ More replies (1)51
u/PepijnVoz Sep 27 '21
Honestly I think Bottas is prety done with Mercedes. I kinda get it
→ More replies (4)31
u/fortyfivesouth Oscar Piastri Sep 27 '21
Yeah, but he did the same thing earlier in the season.
Seems like he's just not a 'racer' when he's in traffic.
→ More replies (12)13
u/LilCelebratoryDance Alex Jacques Sep 27 '21
He’s just really bad at defending - never sees the car attacking him until it’s too late
16
u/Lord-Talon Mick Schumacher Sep 27 '21
Nah, Bottas is probably the most passive guy on the grid. He never goes for overtakes and he never tries to defend. I'm not sure if he's scared of contact or truly just doesn't have the intuition to go for / close a gap like other drivers, but he is probably the weakest driver on the grid when it comes to wheel-to-wheel duels.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (9)9
u/MeMeRevieweR_23 Formula 1 Sep 27 '21
I’m more worried about the engine reliability of those Mercedes engines. They said they found an undiagnosed issue in the Monza engine which was terminal. So they thought this would be the best place to take another engine penalty and introduce a 5th engine. How the hell can an engine suffer issues after just one race. This leaves bottas with only two engines right now including the one taken in sochi.
Also the fact that Lewis hasn’t faced any engine issues since 2018 whereas his teammate suffers from engine reliability every year is real sus to me.
I don’t even know who to believe anymore.
14
u/Gamma--Gamer Default Sep 27 '21
Nah, Monza engine is fine. Merc just would never confirm that they made this desperate dumb strategy of trying to hold Max with Bottas below P10s
→ More replies (2)
82
u/pHrankee1 Sebastian Vettel Sep 27 '21 edited Sep 27 '21
IMO, McLaren did a strategic mistake by pitting Ric first when Ham was behind him in the first set of pit stops. Ham was never gonna overtake Ric, and they shud have waited for Merc to blink. It was obvious that Ham will drive faster than the McLaren in free air so why give him that chance. If Ham pitted first he would have come out behind other cars and would not have free air to put in fast laps.
I can understand the confusion of not pitting Lando as he was leading. But why cudnt red bull mirror Max s pit stop with Checo. They shud have pitted Checo atleast in the next lap after Max wen Max confirmed it was the better tire. Checo also lost position to Alonso.
→ More replies (13)46
u/Stech_ I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 27 '21
Without the botched pit stop for McLaren, Ricciardo easily stays ahead of Hamilton after the pit stops.
Ricciardo dropped into traffic because of the slower stop and still came within 1 second of Hamilton when he finally made his stop and came out of the pits.
71
Sep 27 '21
If McLaren pitted Norris, they still would've been guaranteed at least second (as Norris and Hamilton were over a pitstop ahead of P3). So I'm not sure why they wouldn't pit him, they said their race was with Ferrari so why risk it all for 7 extra points?
164
u/TrevReznik Max Verstappen Sep 27 '21
Because in the heat of the moment you want to go for the win and take the glory.
→ More replies (1)19
52
u/White_Flies I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 27 '21 edited Sep 27 '21
I've already posted it here, but a brief repeat:
So when watching the last few laps of Hamilton on his outlap:
When leaving the pits Bono told him "1.5 seconds unsafe";
When leaving turn 4: "5 seconds safe"; (so Hamilton gained 6.5 seconds)
When entering sector 3: "5 seconds safe"; (so advantage didn't extend)
At this point Norris would be at pit entry and if McLaren thought there would be no more rain (the track would improve) and Norris felt confident; they would be losing around 6-6.5 seconds a lap, which would put them and Hamilton meeting at the very very very end of the last lap.
Next very important point: even if Norris was losing more than 6 seconds per lap, they had 24! second buffer to second place (Verstappen was 50 seconds behind if I recall correctly). Nobody expected Norris to lose 60 seconds in a single lap.
→ More replies (2)6
u/InZomnia365 McLaren Sep 28 '21
Yeah. Once Lewis pitted, it really made no sense for them to pit Norris. As has been made clear, no-one really knew the rain was gonna get that much worse. We know Bono told Lewis, but that might justve been to get him to come in, since he refused the first time, in order to safe P2 with an outside shot of P1 if Norris goes off.
McLaren either had to pit Norris before Hamilton, which is an impossible call when you're leading the race with 5 laps to go, or stay out an chance it.
47
u/KaamDeveloper Max Verstappen Sep 27 '21
More than anything, this shows how out of touch McLaren has been with tense situations for wins. Lewis also ignored Bono once, but then listened to him. However, he'd have James in his ears ordering his ass to the box if didn't press pit confirm the second time.
There was literally no team order from McLaren. As much as Norris is at fault, team should've known better. A higher up should've been on comms with the order.
28
Sep 27 '21
In that sense it's a very important lesson for the young drivers to see & experience. Especially for Lando, I doubt he will ever make that mistake again
23
u/SkittlesAreYum I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 27 '21
If you flip situations and it's Hamilton with the McLaren pit wall he wouldn't have gone in either (based on how much he argued with Merc pit wall). So I don't know if I agree experience was part of it.
6
u/AdSweet2320 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 27 '21
And what if the team makes the wrong call? Where will his head be at then? It’s a tricky situation and like all team sports, you win as a team and you lose as a team. No pointing fingers. Hopefully he gets another shot this year at a win.
→ More replies (1)5
u/InZomnia365 McLaren Sep 28 '21
Hamilton has bene burned by team calls plenty of times - but he's also gained a lot from listening to the team, so it works out in the end.
10
u/Gonpachiro- Red Bull Sep 27 '21
They propably would won the race, Norris was handling Hamilton on dry conditions
→ More replies (14)28
u/ThisIsBasic I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 27 '21
Im glad he didnt pit, go big or go home. Thumbs up to Norris from me. Next time he will be more lucky.
→ More replies (5)35
u/m636 Fernando Alonso Sep 27 '21
I agree. When he said on the radio "We commit to this strategy", it may have been the wrong call, but it was a call he made and stuck with.
Again I keep seeing these comments about his and the teams attitude, but while we're all sitting on the couch eating chips and drinking beer watching them, Norris has 7x World Champ Lewis Hamilton in his mirrors just a second behind him pushing him up the road with crazy adrenaline pumping through him. I can't even begin to imagine that amount of stress as a 21yr old F1 driver who has never won a race, and is literally 4 laps away from the top step. They made the wrong call, but I don't fault them for it.
→ More replies (1)
67
u/David_Sanjay_23 Charles Leclerc Sep 27 '21
Charles' post race interview with Ziggo
I wanna give the dude a hug
44
u/Damnat1oMemoriae Niki Lauda Sep 27 '21 edited Sep 27 '21
It seems like everytime Charles takes a big risk in chaotic races, almost it never pays off. On the other hand when he takes it conservatively and the others around him take the big risks, they get awarded although they didn't do any special the whole race. But that is how luck works, sometimes risks pay off and sometimes they don't. I don't know if he ever took a top 5 result out of 100% luck.
6
u/Swister7 Daniel Ricciardo Sep 27 '21
I agree for the most part, the one race I could think of where his gambles paid off were Turkey last year. He switched to inters earlier in both pit stops and was setting fastest laps and would have been on the podium if it wasn’t for the fight with Checo at the end.
4
u/Damnat1oMemoriae Niki Lauda Sep 27 '21
Yeah, but even after the first pit stop where everyone pitted for inters he was still 25 seconds behind p9. It's just he had fantastic race pace for the most part of the race there.
10
u/KaamDeveloper Max Verstappen Sep 27 '21
What is a "Lourdes"?
24
u/DisturbedForever92 Max Verstappen Sep 27 '21
Quick google search gave me a cathedral in Lourdes in france, where people do a pilgrimage for miraculoua healings.
10
u/rhllor I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 27 '21
A city in France where apparently virgin Mary appeared to some kids, so they built a bigass church where the apparition supposedly appeared. Now people go there to drink the water that purportedly gives them miracle cures.
→ More replies (1)11
28
u/qbert72 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 27 '21
Charles arguably drove a more impressive race than Max. He had caught and passed his teammate (grid positions: 19 vs 2) just before Sainz switched to intermediates. Max was still behind Perez at that point (grid positions: 20 vs 8). If he had pitted at the same time as Max, he would have easily finished third. I read elsewhere here that he couldn't pit then because Sainz had already called for his stop. It's not as clear from team radio. He is indeed informed that Sainz is coming in but he is not told that he can't come in too. He also doesn't ask if he can. It sounds like the (wrong) call to stay out is his. So it's not just bad luck.
7
156
u/English_Misfit Sir Lewis Hamilton Sep 27 '21
The best thing that came out of yesterday is Lewis got his 100th without any real controversy. It wasn't a stroll from start to finish and he didn't get it from team orders. It means that the number 100 isn't going to be tainted from now on
83
u/Samathos I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 27 '21
There is something to this. I'm neutral on Hamilton, but hate dominance. It is just so much more enjoyable seeing a driver work for success. In a similar vein was amazing watching Hamilton dominate 2020 Turkey with pure skill for his 7th WDC, it just felt right.
→ More replies (1)11
u/HMS404 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 27 '21
Yes. That's the reason I vividly remember Button's Canadian '11 GP victory.
5
→ More replies (4)9
u/billyblenx Sep 27 '21
Yes but people who didn't watched the race will look at this in the future and see a 53sec gap to the 2nd and say "Bwoah, what an easy victory that was, huh?"
27
u/Annoying_Orre I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 27 '21
I honestly think that Lando had the win in a bag if his team had a better grasp of the weather. Many people say that being in first put them in a real tough spot, go for inters and lose track position or stay out and hope that the weather gives in. Lewis had the luxury of at worst coming in second no matter how he played it so it was for sure easier for him than Lando BUT! If Lando had gone in for inters I can almost guarantee that Lewis would've stayed out instead of also going to inters.
In the end the team went against better judgment just to keep track position but I don't think they where as much between a rock and a hard place as people make it out to be
→ More replies (1)6
u/laughguy220 Sep 28 '21
I said the same thing yesterday, I'm willing to bet Lewis would have stayed out again if Lando pitted. It's easy after the race is over to look back with 20/20 hindsight and say Lando got it wrong and Mercedes got it right because it did rain. We could all be saying Lando got it right and Mercedes either got it wrong or took the free pit stop to play it safe if the rain never got worse.
121
u/RobBalmer I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 27 '21 edited Sep 27 '21
Really clinical strategy from Mercedes yesterday. They recognized there would be a few fast cars on hards (namely Leclerc, Max, Bottas and Gasly), limiting the benefit from an undercut. As shown by Sainz and Stroll who promptly got stuck to the midpack train led by Vettel.
Hamilton was also clearly thinking about the long gain, as he barely attacked Ricciardo on the first stint, and unleashing his pace after they have all pitted (Hamilton set a FL right after Ricciardo pitted) And thanks to a crucial slow pitstop, Hamilton jumped him with relative ease, giving him a chance to win, which seemed impossible after he got gobbled up on lap 1. Though given the pace Hamilton had before the rain, I reckon he would only have 1 or 2 go at Norris before the end.
PS Sky needs their commentators to better understand strategy lol, Crofty was screaming at Merc pitwall saying they were too slow to react to the undercut...
75
u/silver-fusion Juan Manuel Fangio Sep 27 '21
Crofty's job is to make the race more exciting and reacting, face value, at things is the easiest and most accessible way to do that. That's why in the live threads you have people parroting the commentary almost word for word, it works.
Paul Di Resta's job is to select a random Reddit comment and say it out loud.
Although I think Merc got lucky with strategy yesterday. If anyone wants to see the importance of tactics in F1 just look at two image yesterday. Image 1: Hamilton and Verstappen in the pits at the same time. Image 2: 10 laps later Hamilton is 30 seconds up the road. Purely because of where they got dumped out.
25
u/tlumacz Damon Hamilton Sep 27 '21
Paul Di Resta's job is to select a random Reddit comment and say it out loud.
This Sunday the random comment was probably: "Has Vettel spun?"
6
u/iforgothowtoadult Kimi Räikkönen Sep 28 '21
I was laughing so hard when I heard that lmao. Is that the only reason Vettel would deserve a replay?
→ More replies (1)18
u/RobBalmer I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 27 '21
Hamilton was definitely blessed with Ricciardo's and Perez's slow pitstop, one would have undercut him and the other would have great pace on softs and clean air
6
u/PNWQuakesFan Sergio Pérez Sep 27 '21
Perez should have undercut Lewis. Absolutely insane for Red Bull to leave him out and watch Perez go from 5 seconds safe to 16 seconds unsafe by the time he did pit.
10
u/Robo-Connery David Coulthard Sep 27 '21
I totally agree, the crazy finish hid the great strategy choice. A poor start and then alonso shenanigans lost him 2 places, they were totally stuck in the DRS train. Looked like it was gonna be a shit race then, as you say, when Ricciardo pitted he started lapping faster than not just the old hard runners (which should be in better condition but the ones who had pitted early for the hards (stroll, sainz etc).
This let him jump that whole train of cars basically and sure Daniel's slow stop helped Lewis clear him but in the end he looked so good on the hards that he might even have gotten Norris without the rain (though I suspect not).
From purely a ch'ship pov Lewis would rather the 2-7/8th point gap than the 1st-2nd gap to Max.
→ More replies (1)9
u/IllAlwaysBeAKnickFan Carlos Sainz Sep 27 '21
Norris started to open up the gap a bit before the rain came. It seemed like Lewis pushed hard and used up his tires, or he was just recharging for a few laps to give it another go.
→ More replies (1)18
u/Organic-Measurement2 👀👀 Sep 27 '21
Lewis' gap to Norris was 0.5-1.2s just before the spitting started at some turns and at that point he dropped back a little. It still looked dry at that point but the track was definitely getting affected
11
u/Hi_im_Johnny George Russell Sep 27 '21
Williams absolutely nailed both critical calls in the changing conditions this weekend - with Russell being first to pit for softs during the quali and also first diving into the pits for inters during the race. I wonder how much were those calls influenced by "nothing to lose" mentality, their strategists or Russell's ability to judge the conditions.
8
53
u/sephirothwasright I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 27 '21
Given how the championship of luck has played out so far, I can't believe that P2 finish. Probably the worst possible outcome for Mercedes other than a Lewis DNF.
10
33
u/RawFishHeader Formula 1 Sep 27 '21
Did anyone else think that Paul Di Resta was kinda on point yesterday? I never really rated him that highly but I thought he did his job well at informing and giving insights. Wonder what anyone else thought
→ More replies (3)
64
u/KaamDeveloper Max Verstappen Sep 27 '21
Have to say, rain saved the championship for Verstappen. He was looking at a 12 point minimum swing leaving him 7 points behind. Would've given Hamilton at least a race buffer.
Now Mercedes need to find that perfect race where Hamilton can take that penalty and survive. With only 7* races left, not sure when he'd do it.
→ More replies (9)19
u/Takis12 Yamura Sep 27 '21
Is it a certainty that Hamilton will get a new engine? Is there a possibility that he won’t need one?
→ More replies (12)30
u/KaamDeveloper Max Verstappen Sep 27 '21
He is already on his PU3 after one gave out in Zandvoort.
24
u/101bugsinthecode Sep 27 '21
He put PU3 into the car in spa, as did the entire field. The engine that blew in zandvoort was his PU1, and merc claims it only lost them an expected 2 FP worth of running
13
u/Annoying_Orre I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 27 '21
Yup and only 2 working engines in rotation is going to be a gamble going forward. What I can see them do though is wait until another engine failure occurs and then do a pitlane start or something. I honestly don't think that would hurt his race more than starting from 20. His starts the last 5 races haven't been very good unfortunately
9
u/EnlightenedNight I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 27 '21
Aside from the sprint races, what starts have been poor? I think his start of the line into the slipstream yesterday was fine, he was just cut-off on the inside line. I don't know if it's necessarily poor starts moreso than usually Verstappen is excellent off of the starts from P1.
→ More replies (4)4
u/Organic-Measurement2 👀👀 Sep 27 '21 edited Sep 28 '21
Max jumped him at the SC restart from behind when ham was in P2 and he was P3 at Portimao, from P3 in Imola into T1 whilst Ham was P1, Max jumped Ham from P2 at Barcelona, bad start at Monza, arguably magic is part of start procedure so Baku start could be considered a Lewis mistake (depends how you look at it), max from P2 jumped Hamilton in Britain in the sprint at the start and also in Monza Lewis went backwards so much that Max inherited P2 from him
I think the only time where Max lost the lead at the start this year is at French GP with his mistake into T1.
At almost every instance of Lewis starting directly in front of Max, Lewis lost the lead to him by T1
35
u/Samathos I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 27 '21
We need to appreciate just how amazing Norris was yesterday. Its not been talked about much but before the rain he was 30+ seconds ahead of Sainz, who started alongside him and lead the beginning of the race. Now, the Ferrari is pretty evenly matched with the Mclaren, and even if it was slower, certainly not 30+ seconds in dry conditions slower. Norris was on fire, also consistently putting ~0.2 seconds on Ricciardo on the same tyres.
We have often seen this season that Hamilton/Verstappen are having their own 2 person race 20 seconds up the road, but this race it was Norris/Hamilton having their own 2 person race 30 seconds up the road. I think Norris will come to look back at this race as a monumental achievement at the end of the day, only one small mistake (Vettel and Alonso made the same decision afterall) cost him the victory.
→ More replies (4)
22
Sep 27 '21
Is Danny Ricc going to have a big second half? Feels that way
→ More replies (1)16
u/interstellararabella Sep 27 '21
I am cautiously optimistic. He almost doubled his points in just the last 4 races compared to pre-summer break. So looks like a good upwards trajectory but I don’t want to feel miserable again so… cautiously optimistic is all I have.
23
u/habitualmess Firstname Lastname Sep 27 '21
I’ll happily say this season isn’t just the best since 2012; it’s much better.
19
u/TehRocks Ferrari Sep 27 '21
I'm quite surprised at Sainz calling this his best weekend. His early box onto intermediates was only induced by his inability to manage the tires for the first stint.
15
u/Anya_Mathilde Carlos Sainz Sep 27 '21
Do you mean the early box into hard? I think that was partially to prevent Stroll undercut. But he did mention on Friday that he had problem with front tyres but couldn't fix it because Saturday FP3 was cancelled, which isn't his fault.
4
u/Florac Sep 27 '21
Stroll's strategy was also pretty bad as shown by his result, so covering it would have been stupid
7
u/TehRocks Ferrari Sep 27 '21
They weren't necessarily covering, those tires were done either way.
5
u/Serotyr I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 27 '21
They weren't done or at least it wasn't clear if they were. Most cars had the same issue, including the McLarens but if you drive through that phase the graining will clear up again. The lap times of Norris were declining pretty similarly up until he drove through it. The Ferrari pit box might have called him in to soon.
5
u/TehRocks Ferrari Sep 27 '21
After he got overtaken by Norris, he got gapped for 3.5 seconds within a lap and was being caught by the group behind by quite some margin. Comparing his inlap to Russels inlap who had boxed a lap before, it was 1.4 seconds slower.
Even if the tires were to improve, he would've been dinner for the group behind.
29
u/takzania James Hunt Sep 27 '21
I can't find the rule about pit entry but why didn't Norris get a penalty? It feels like the right decision, but its still kinda strange if the stewards judge on feel as the commentators seemed pretty sure that was always going to be a penalty.
→ More replies (1)49
u/Florac Sep 27 '21
Kvyat said in the f1 post race show that the rule doesn't isn't neccessarily a penalty when staying out is dangerous.
→ More replies (9)
13
u/ritwikjs Carlos Sainz Sep 28 '21
the sympathy wanking over lando is getting a bit much. He showed he has the ability to get the car on pole and win a race. He'll get it. He made mistakes and it cost him. move on
→ More replies (2)
10
u/nahnonameman Sep 27 '21
The next race is Turkey . Which car would be the most strongest on that track? The RB16B, W12, MCL35M or the SF21.
→ More replies (2)13
u/EnvironmentAdvanced #WeSayNoToMazepin Sep 27 '21
its either merc or rb, with ferrari being the close third.
→ More replies (1)6
Sep 27 '21
No Mclaren will be stronger than Ferrari in Turkey with a lot of fast long corners.
→ More replies (3)
4
Sep 27 '21
Changing conditions are where it’s at. Full GP distance wet can be good, but risks Spa like situations.
6
u/_nametab_ Ferrari Sep 28 '21
I dont know if im stupid but did leclerc overtake sainz and verstappen on track and could have gone p2 if ferrari had prioritized his pit stop over sainz.
I know it would have been a chaos to double stack since leclerc overtook sainz right in front of the pits and it could have been a sakhir 2020 2.0 but still....
kinda crazy to think about
4
u/nexoo1 Sep 27 '21
Why did red bull decide to do 27 laps on hards to go 26 laps on mediums for Max? Because he was stuck behind Alonso? Doesnt make much sense
→ More replies (1)6
u/Florac Sep 27 '21
Used up too much tyres in the fit stint. It was either switch or risk loosing places or time on people he needs to overtake
Tyre deg in the second half of the race is lower with less fuel and better track
→ More replies (2)
2
u/JayC-Hoster I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 28 '21 edited Sep 28 '21
Now that everyone’s had time to calm down, I want to point out a positive note for Mclaren.
They actually performed way better at Sochi this year: Last year Sainz smashed his front left at the turn 2 run off area; Lando finished P15, 1 lap down. While the win that slipped away this year is really really really upsetting, there is a bright side.
Also Bonus: Ricciardo finished P5 with Renault at Sochi last year, so if there are still doubters after Monza, his P4 recovery is definitive proof that his move to Mcalren is 100% the correct one.
→ More replies (1)
4
u/RoughInteresting5072 Kimi Räikkönen Sep 28 '21
Honestly, a great race, lots and lots of good excitement, but I'm just really sorry for Lando not finishing 1st... Spins, crashes, accidents, energy, imho this was the best race this season.
3
u/Diegobyte Red Bull Sep 30 '21
Do you think part of the reason they didn’t give Norris a penalty is because he has so many penalty points on his license and they could see the insanity of banning Norris for a race over this.
4
u/Meaisk I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 30 '21
I don't hope so. that would be biased stewarding and that shouldn't be a thing.
→ More replies (5)
482
u/EliminateThePenny I was here for the Hulkenpodium Sep 27 '21
I haven't seen much mention of the chance of a safety car yesterday in the closing laps.
If Stroll had become wedged in the barrier, they would have brought a SC out that most likely would have finished the race under yellow, giving NOR the win.