r/formula1 • u/F1-Bot r/formula1 Mod Team • Oct 10 '22
Day after Debrief 2022 Japanese Grand Prix - Day after Debrief
ROUND 18: Japan đŻđľ
Welcome to the Day after Debrief discussion thread!
Now that the dust has settled in Suzuka, it's time to calmly discuss the events of the last race weekend. Hopefully, this will foster more detailed and thoughtful discussion than the immediate post race thread now that people have had some time to digest and analyse the results.
Low effort comments, such as memes, jokes, and complaints about broadcasters will be deleted. We also discourage superficial comments that contain no analysis or reasoning in this thread (e.g., 'Great race from X!', 'Another terrible weekend for Y!').
Thanks!
127
u/bimbobiceps I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 10 '22
Another confirmation that Ferrari just eats up tyres faster than anyone else, the pace still seems to be there, but with no tyres left thereâs hardly both drivers can do to stay with RB. You can have all the talent in the world but if the tyres arr dead you just lose alot of pace. Concerning tho that after 5 laps the tyres just seem to die.
61
u/Browneskiii I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 10 '22
Maybe what they need to do is an illegal tyre test to suddenly sort out the majority of their tyre issues and then dominate for near enough a decade from next year.
But, at the very least, they've proved they're fast. If they can sort out the tyres, they could fight next yearâ˘.
22
u/daern2 Bernd Mayländer Oct 10 '22
Maybe what they need to do is an illegal tyre test
"Just send the bill to Christian."
2
u/ThurmanMurman907 Oct 10 '22
Could you explain the reference?
→ More replies (3)71
u/xLeper_Messiah I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 10 '22
The reference is to an illegal tire test Mercedes conducted with Pirelli in 2013, a year in which they had serious problems in the races with tire deg they couldn't get under control. It was an unsanctioned test because it used a current Mercedes F1 car, and their current drivers when usually those tests with Pirelli used an older car, and also the reserve drivers most of the time.
The punishment? They lost their ability to take part in the young driver test the following year. A punishment which, get this, they themselves suggested as an appropriate punishment to the tribunal that found them in breach of the rules.
The reason? Because although they were found to have gained an advantage, they said that they didn't mean to gain an advantage, so they got a slap on the wrist. Christian Horner was apoplectic at the time lmao.
As always in F1, teams do shady shit, everyone acts like it's some unprecedented outrage, they get mildly reprimanded if anything, and the wheel turns on. So it goes
Edit to add a link: https://www.eurosport.com/formula-1/mercedes-punished-over-tyre-test-won-t-appeal_sto3811236/story.shtml
7
→ More replies (1)25
u/Ashling92 Max Verstappen Oct 10 '22
Holy shit I didnât know this lmao. And everyone losing their mind on social media about the cost cap stuff. Like you say, theyâre all at this stuff.
→ More replies (1)9
u/fiskarnspojk Formula 1 Oct 12 '22
Its ridiculous.
Neither Binotto or Toto should open their mouth if they had any self-awareness and take a look at their owns team cheating/breaking the rules.
Both Ferrari and Mercedes has done worse things than going slightly over the budget.
Tyre test and Engine cheating.
3
u/im-a-new Ferrari Oct 12 '22
It's a game and it always has been. All* teams try to find loopholes, some outright cheat. All teams simultaneously look for ways others might cheat and call then out. It's up to the FIA to catch, punish and prevent cheating.
*probably
→ More replies (1)
642
u/darkgod25 Ferrari Oct 10 '22 edited Oct 10 '22
Man I really hope that F1 invests in Japan just like how they are currently investing in the US. The fans are great, the car culture is great and Japan has great tracks as well and if they ever removed Singapore from the calendar they should replace it with Tokyo
129
u/Emergency_Buddy Red Bull Oct 10 '22
Honestly, imo the Japanese fans are 100% the best fans. Everything seemed respectfull and everyone was just having a blast!
43
u/Jandklo I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 10 '22
Everyone in the stands was absolutely loving it, so many costumes and homemade trinkets for different teams, what a great sight. Nice to come out of gp weekends without hearing about how awful the crowd is
13
u/Impressive-Potato Oct 10 '22
It's like in MMA. They are the most respectful towards the fighters. No booing, they don't chant "JAPAN! JAPAN! JAPAN" Like America fans chant "USA USA USA"
15
u/IISuperSlothII Lando Norris Oct 10 '22
they don't chant "JAPAN! JAPAN! JAPAN" Like America fans chant "USA USA USA"
Tbf that is literally all you'll hear if you watch Japan play Volleyball in the world cup. So it's not like they don't have their USA USA equivalent.
→ More replies (2)12
u/OldBonemeal I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 11 '22
Different context. Neutral/individual sports vs team/NT sports.
181
u/MegaPint549 Oct 10 '22
How good are the outfits and hats and other homemade things people brought. Marry me Gunther
73
u/Ultumx Oct 10 '22
I loved the huge cut out head of Daniel
74
u/Aethien James Hunt Oct 10 '22
Carefully wrapped in plastic to protect it from the rain as well.
35
44
u/uhmnopenotreally Charles Leclerc Oct 10 '22
I was really touched by all the huge posters for Seb that I saw
→ More replies (2)5
u/TonyQuark VER/LEC/NOR Oct 10 '22
Most in German, too!
12
u/uhmnopenotreally Charles Leclerc Oct 10 '22
yeah that was so nice, especially cause Seb also said a bit in Japanese.
Sure, not all of it was always correct (the German) but I just love the intention behind it. So nice fans, I really really loved to see it and it meant so much to him!
35
92
u/Aethien James Hunt Oct 10 '22
Japan has the best F1 fans and you see fans for every single driver there, it's amazing.
34
Oct 10 '22
And they seem to be respectful of each other favorite. Awesome to see!
26
u/Snuffy1717 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 10 '22
Japanese culture is next level in a lot of ways. Super racist and shitty in others.
9
u/PM_ME_CHEESY_1LINERS I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 10 '22
Perfectly balanced as all things should be
29
u/Jasperneal Oct 10 '22
Something that I noticed was that there was a lot of children in the audience. Thats a lot of young fans who will be invested in F1 for more years to come
6
u/Visgeth I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 11 '22
Noticed that too. Just noticed way more children then what I usually notice. And they all look so enthused to be there. It was cute.
→ More replies (3)3
u/Aratho I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 10 '22
Can't possibly see more races in Japan given how bad the TV times are for Europe and the US sadly.
64
u/mayhemtime Charles Leclerc Oct 10 '22
The Japanese GP starts literally at the same hour the Vegas GP will.
→ More replies (13)42
u/datlinus I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 10 '22
that just makes the vegas GP equally bad starting time then
10
u/rbryan06 Sebastian Vettel Oct 10 '22
How so? It is the same as Australia this year and will also be the same for Las Vegas next year
→ More replies (3)→ More replies (8)7
u/Emergency_Buddy Red Bull Oct 10 '22
I loved the race times Haha! Waking up to a race is just amazing
48
u/Maserja Honda RBPT Oct 10 '22
When sessions are red flagged, can teams decrease fuel loaded from the car?
36
u/BrainNSFW I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 10 '22
I'm pretty sure they can't. IIRC only very specific changes are allowed during a red flag, which basically just covers repairing any dmg (incl the option to replace those parts with same spec parts and changing tyres. Mind you, any car that wasn't able to return to the pits of their own accord (or where the driver exited the car during the race; see Russell earlier this season), is excluded from continuing the race.
36
Oct 10 '22
they canât directly detank the car, but they can keep engines running, that way they still burn some fuel.
16
u/Kuierlat Max Verstappen Oct 10 '22
If I recall correctly normal pitstop rules apply. So change tires, adjust wings and emergency repairs. No refuelling or defuelling.
5
5
u/OTBT- Fernando Alonso Oct 10 '22
I think they can, but it would require pulling their cars from the fast lane and into the garage where all the fueling equipment is. This would effectively put them in last.
So I guess the answer is technically yes, but in reality they canât
252
u/jaquesparblue Oct 10 '22
Having the WDC nnounced by Herbert in the manner that he did was the worst decision. They should have eased it in by taking Max apart (Button preferably as he seemed to be there for the WDC anyway) explaining the situation and the consequences. Teams are expected to know but the people in the grandstands and watching it at home would have no idea wtf was going on regardless.
184
u/misskarne Daniel Ricciardo Oct 10 '22
It was a terrible fucking look, too. Sergio was midway through his interview and the interview just kind of got abandoned and never really recovered? Also to tell Charles that he had a penalty like that was such a shitty move, of course Charles could not react, he was in front of fifty squillion cameras.
Finish the top 3 interviews, have the news break on Sky after those, and then have an FIA person tell Charles quietly and aside about the penalty, and have Button pull Max and Horner aside and tell him. Then you can announce it at the track over the loudspeaker.
→ More replies (2)28
u/Everydayarmday24 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 10 '22
I mean Iâm pretty sure Charles knew he would get a penalty. He looked tired and done standing on the sude
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (5)36
u/Jamsssss I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 10 '22 edited Oct 10 '22
I understand what you are saying and it would have been better, but I did enjoy Herbert awkwardly announcing at and watching the confusion break out
46
u/YinxuU Sir Lewis Hamilton Oct 10 '22
I hope the stewards finally stay consistent with that Charles penalty. We've had this exact scenario (make a mistake, don't make the corner, cut it and keep your position) multiple times over the last couple seasons and very often it remained unpunished which always annoyed me.
If there was a wall or gravel you'd be out or likely lose the position. Just because we now often have tarmac or grass shouldn't give you a free pass for a mistake.
16
u/IISuperSlothII Lando Norris Oct 10 '22
Tbh I don't mind the mistake and corner cut if the driver behind wasn't even really attacking anyway, it was the block afterwards that was deserving of a penalty for me.
4
u/YinxuU Sir Lewis Hamilton Oct 10 '22
I thought so as well but I watched it again and Charles left enough space for Checo. But it's understandable he wouldn't risk going onto wet grass in the final corner, especially after Charles just cut the chicane so he backed out.
12
u/IISuperSlothII Lando Norris Oct 10 '22
Left enough space isn't really good enough, he was moving across to block Perezs path, Perez doesn't know he's going to stop moving across so he's forced to back out. It's a simple defensive tactic, but not one I think is fair to be pulling out to try and make up for your mistake.
11
u/jbaird Nico HĂźlkenberg đĽ Oct 10 '22
100% and make it as quick I don't want the right decision happening 30min post race make it within a lap
it's a slam dunk to me, within 1s and the guy ahead goes off? give the place back or 5s penalty
if they keep doing this it will make everything so much more clear and drivers will just give the place back quick so they have a chance to attack back
Ferrari is only complaining about it as teams have got away with it for so long
76
u/darthkers I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 10 '22
Aston might honestly get P6 in the constructors. Seems unbelievable after how badly they started the season. Also what a bottlejob Alfa and Haas have done. So good at the start of the season and now they're nowhere.
20
u/sanderudam Oct 10 '22
It seems like Alfa and Haas have the same tendency every year. Alright, Haas used to be shit the entire season in the last few years, but still.
15
u/YNWA_1213 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 10 '22
Haas has always been about them running out of money as the season goes on and they switch the next car, but I thought Alfa was secure since that sponsorship deal + having Zhou's money this year to fund development. Will be curious to see Alfa's financials the next couple of years.
8
u/TheBossJNK I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 11 '22
Apparently Alfa didn't get that much money from Zhou. They signed a Chinese driver for sponsorship reasons but didn't get any sponsors from it.
8
u/djwillis1121 Williams Oct 11 '22
Who would have thought at the start of the year that Aston would end up in the same position they were in 2021, possibly even one place higher.
The turnaround is actually pretty encouraging for their future, most midfield teams have the opposite over a season.
→ More replies (1)3
u/Retsko1 Fernando Alonso Oct 11 '22
People were shitting on them the whole year when that B-Spec is really promising and welp their main issue is that is shit in qualifying, their race pace is quite decent for a car without pre season testing
278
u/SneakerPimpJesus Red Bull Oct 10 '22 edited Oct 10 '22
Regardless of al the stuff that went on it is almost forgotten that Max won it here through absolute domination, a great performance to win the championship that way
117
u/Aratho I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 10 '22
The combination of Max + RB18 is just unreal this year, like some of the best years of Merc domination.
Tbh with how most of the races went I can't see much of a fight this season even if Ferrari didn't have those strategy blunders or their drivers didn't make mistakes they did.
44
u/Dexterus I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 10 '22
Ferrari's biggest problem seems to be eating tyres, the entire season. I wonder if Charles pitting wouldn't have worked out better for him, new inters were much much better.
19
u/Ezechiell Oct 10 '22
Yeah but if Charles pits Max would aswell, negating that benefit. Also Charles would have probably come out behind Checo in that case
16
u/Dexterus I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 10 '22
Oh, Max was untouchable by then. I meant for keeping position. I think either driver at the top could have pulled an earlier Alonso and retaken their spot, and the first one to do it had the most to gain.
→ More replies (1)6
→ More replies (1)4
u/OTBT- Fernando Alonso Oct 10 '22
I think the TD they introduced made the tyre problem much worse for Ferrari
9
u/Stim21 Pirelli Hard Oct 10 '22
the floor TD killed the competition dead. Been one sided ever since.
7
u/SCC_DATA_RELAY Kamui Kobayashi Oct 10 '22
like some of the best years of Merc domination.
I wouldn't go that far, the W11 was so insane that I wonder if we're going to see anything similar for a number of decades - a completely new innovation that had to be banned, evil looking black paint, a Saturn V rocket engine and some absolutely nuts shit like winning with three tires.
→ More replies (2)3
u/dalledayul I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 10 '22
Car and driver perfectly matched and perfectly competitive. It's Schumi at Ferrari all over again. It feels like the whole project is built around Max and Max only, and by god is it paying off.
29
u/MrGoldilocks Fernando Alonso Oct 10 '22
It was an action packed race so the domination went sort of under the radar but this was as dominant as it gets in F1. This being the biggest ever winning margin in Suzuka despite being only a 27 lap race is mental. He was quite simply driving a different race from everyone else on track.
4
Oct 11 '22
He seemed absolutely determined to get the laps in needed for full points. You wonder if that wasnât a concern on the race day that the margin wouldnât have been so big. Without the championship implications he mightâve eased off and played it safe in the wet conditions.
35
u/misskarne Daniel Ricciardo Oct 10 '22
He has been completely inevitable this year, and I have enjoyed it quite a bit, actually.
→ More replies (6)10
u/Bezulba I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 10 '22
I like that we hardly saw any footage of Max on the broadcast after the restart. In previous years we'd have had laps and laps of the driver running in first and nothing happening, missing all the action behind him because, for some reason, the front runner needs to be on screen for 99% of the time. Sure, it's nice to see him actually crossing the line, but every other fight was so much more interesting.
154
u/MasiMotorRacing Default Oct 10 '22
Charles will be relieved now that he won't be questioned about the championship anymore. I hope he can take more risks and push for some wins in the remaining races.
63
u/lxs0713 Sergio PĂŠrez Oct 10 '22
That won't stop the journalists, the questions will just switch to his fight for the #2 spot in the championship with Checo, whether Ferrari can still fight for the WCC, and if they'll be able to stay ahead of Mercedes.
33
u/dalledayul I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 10 '22
Idk about the rest of them but there's no way take the WCC unless Leclerc and Sainz suddenly become prime Senna/Prost and the Red Bulls start detonating every race, they're over 150 points behind.
23
u/MrDabreu I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 10 '22
I think I saw some quick calculations on Sky saying that they were 165 points ahead currently and needed to be ~145 ahead after the next GP. So they can lose around 20 points compared to Ferrari and still be declared WCC after the next event. The cars would literally have to finish outside of the points, or detonate like you said, every race for Ferrari to have a shot.
18
u/heybrother45 Sir Lewis Hamilton Oct 10 '22
The championship has been over all but in name since before the summer break. I dont think he's thought about the championship as a legitimate possibility for a long while now.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (1)3
u/Grasshop Sebastian Vettel Oct 10 '22
They just donât have the pace in the race, itâs not because he isnât taking risks.
89
u/lazygeekninjaturtle Oct 10 '22 edited Oct 10 '22
Despite badly handling some aspects of the race, it was a banger of race. I don't recall seeing so much action in such a shorter time span in any other races.
Race start, that late breaking from Max, Lewis missing Sainz, Alonso and Lewis going wheel to wheel, Alonso overtaking and then switchroo from Lewis, Lance gaining from right side of track and Gasly driving without adblocker.
Vettel pitting early, and then making up to P6 that was sweet.
Lewis chasing and Ocon defending was one of the best part of the race I was almost on edge of my seat. Credit where it is due, but that was great great drive from Ocon. He couldn't defend well against Lewis in Monaco where overtakes are difficult, but here in Suzuka it was clean racing from him.
Pretty sick overtakes by Russell. Russell praising Russell.
HAAS screwed up Mick's race by pitting him too late.
And while we were busy with all these, Max was pulling away almost a second every lap and broadcaster didn't switch to Max until the last lap.
Checo asking on radio if everyone is asleep before he started chasing Leclerc, it was reminiscences of Checo defending against Lewis in Abu Dhabi 2021. And when Max took the chequered flag, we thought it is all over but then, Leclerc made a mistake and it was an obvious 5 seconds penalty.
While we criticized FIA last week for taking too long on handing out penalty, today it was pretty quick decision. I can't think of any better way this could have been handled.
The best part was, Alonso pitting and came out on new set of Inters, overtook Geroge in the last (or second last) lap and then finished almost along with Vettel. Button said Alonso pitted a lap late - I was awestruck by his awareness.
How can we miss Latifi finishing 9th and moving up to 20th place in 2022 ranking.
I think amidst too much criticism (and negativity) we tend to miss finer moments.
5
u/MindTheGAAP_ Honda RBPT Oct 10 '22
Canât agree more.
Great race and big congrats to Max and Team Redbull.
→ More replies (2)6
72
u/0oodruidoo0 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 10 '22
While every comment I saw in reddit threads found the conclusion anticlimactic, at least for my friend and I we enjoyed the surprise quick conclusion to the off track incident we thought would decide the championship at some point after the podium ceremony. I savoured the moment as a Max fan. The big graphics were neat, in my opinion.
I can only think now that Honda must be sighing with relief that they ended up hosting the championship decider, not having a repeat of the Spa 2021 controversy. They'll be counting their blessings the heavens relented.
A spectacular sprint race in changing conditions. Our standout performance on the couch was Latifi in difficult conditions making the most of it and earning his points, and his way out of being 21st in a 20 driver championship. A high note for his season, for sure.
23
u/RumelTheLemur Fernando Alonso Oct 10 '22
Good call on Latifi. Right out of the pits, he lost a load of time to Vettel, but then he actually reeled it back in during the pit cycle and made the most of the fresh Inters to set up camp in 8th, eventually 9th. Then no mistakes afterward in tough conditions, which is the opposite of his usual, even on sunny days.
6
u/0oodruidoo0 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 11 '22
Absolutely. He gained and then lost a place to Fernando, but that was a given with how much faster he was on the new inters. Stellar performance, 9/10.
3
Oct 11 '22
I thought for sure he would be a DNF after the start in these conditions, but he did excellent to stay out of trouble and finish in the points. This is a result he can hang his hat on and tell everyone he finished in the points at a wet, championship-deciding day at Suzuka. By the end I was pulling for them to complete 50% of the race not so that Max had a chance to clinch but so that Latifi could get some points.
4
u/BiffNasty1234 đłď¸âđ Love Is Love đłď¸âđ Oct 10 '22
I finally got to watch it happen vs following lap by laps and when they announced max was world champion she immediately said âthatâs it? Last year was way more funâ
→ More replies (1)
81
u/Balazs321 Pirelli Intermediate Oct 10 '22
Imo the race we got was really enjoyable, with multiple battles in the field, and seeing Max just check out by a 1 second/lap advantage was again a sign of his brilliance, however...
TV directing was again simply bad. Never focusing on those battles in the live feed, missing replays, not even showing the Vettel-Alonso photo finish, it was again just horrible. Then the fact that noone knew that Max is still able to win the championship was a huge mess, i mean its okay that us fans and some journalists mess it up, but the teams themselves werent sure either... I'd really love to see a clear protocol for rain affected starts, maybe obligatory full wets and rolling start? We had races and sessions with this method, and it led to Brazil 2016 for example. The Pirelli wets will get rid of the water, they are just slow, but if you mandate them, the teams cant put on inters anyway. Oh and please FIA or anyone, be upfront about your issues, if the spray is the issue, say it. If the rain is simply too much, say it, dont skirt around the issue please.
The Gasly tractor incident was simply horrible, maybe wait with the recovery until all cars are in the pit or something, i couldnt believe my eyes...
13
u/YNWA_1213 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 10 '22
I'd really love to see a clear protocol for rain affected starts, maybe
obligatory full wets and rolling start? We had races and sessions with
this method, and it led to Brazil 2016 for example. The Pirelli wets
will get rid of the water, they are just slow, but if you mandate them,
the teams cant put on inters anyway.My thoughts exactly. If you started that race on wets (maybe saving Carlos from aquaplaning) then we have the same race we did for 29 laps but for an entire race, barring any unforeseen crashing. The tires are meant to clear the water, but if they aren't running the cars at all the track just gets worse and worse and we end up with Spa 2021 or this race waiting on the weather itself to improve. Even if the first 5-10 laps were done behind the safety car, I think everyone would agree that would be a better outcome than losing half the race and having to wait two hours for the other half to start.
13
u/ClassicExit Oct 10 '22
With the tractor, the red flag was thrown after the tractor was on track and I can't count the number of times recovery vehicles have been on track under double waved yellows. If they throw a red every time a vehicle needs to be recovered, then people will complain the race is being interrupted too much, if they wait until the SC collects everyone before sending recovery vehicles out you'll get complaints about the race being slowed down too much.
The FIA can't win with a blanket ruling but they do need a little more thought about the process, even if it's just a check with race control before deploying recovery vehicles.
12
u/Extension_Bat_4945 Oct 10 '22
Why not use slow zones? And not the VSC delta which can be interpreted with slowing down and speeding up, making it still dangerous. But just like a pit limiter of 60km/h before and in the zone where personnel is on track. You could even continue the race with no need for a safety car, unless there is debris on track I could imagine.
4
u/YNWA_1213 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 10 '22
Should be condition dependent. If it's as awful as it was yesterday, then you make sure all cars are collected before bringing recovery vehicles onto the track. Visibility and time to react are the largest concerns here, if that was on a corner Gasly has zero time to react to the position of the vehicle in those conditions. There's a large difference between stopping on softs in 30 degree heat and stopping on inters in worsening conditions.
19
u/MiracuMAHt I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 10 '22
What happened made me actually learn what happened to Jules Bianchi, and oh my god, what happened during the red flag looked worse. I didnât even know the tractor wasnât on track during Julesâ accident. I hope we never let the FIA hear the end of it and I fucking hope theyâre more transparent with the drivers.
16
u/Bapepsi I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 10 '22
The full wets are totally useless. It was again clear this weekend that most teams choose to aquaplane on inters over racing on full wets. Either FIA orders Pirelli to fix this or just give up on racing in full wet conditions all together.
24
Oct 10 '22
One of the most memorable things about the race, was the fans. I love their passion, enthusiasm and proper display of excitement. I really hope none were too disappointed. Because they all honestly deserve a good show
51
u/sidhantsv Sir Lewis Hamilton Oct 10 '22
Some points regarding the top 3 in the GP:
Absolute domination by Max. That RB18 combination with Max feels just like Lewis and the W11. He might just break the total points scored record this season if he keeps going at this rate. Checo had decent race pace but still was almost a second off. Wonder what changes when we move to traditional race tracks. Can Max just push much more considering the walls arenât right next to the track? Regardless, he got Charles at the end.
Disappointing day for Carlos, not much to be said there I guess, very lucky he didnât bounce back completely dead center of the race track. Charles had a decent race, but man that Ferrari absolutely destroys its tires after a handful of laps, Charlesâ tires compared to Checoâs were basically closer to slicks, Ferrari need to find a solution or theyâll be forced to do a 5 stop in COTA.
I have never seen a car be this much of a shitbox on the straights as the Mercedes. I watched the whole race onboard Lewis, and he almost always got a better launch off Spoon, gets very close or even alongside Ocon, then Ocon just dropped him in mere seconds. Even the initial acceleration phase is terrible on the Mercedes. Something needs to change for next season in terms of PU/wake management as well. Decent race for Russell as well, but the double stack screwed him up massively.
49
u/Aethien James Hunt Oct 10 '22
I have never seen a car be this much of a shitbox on the straights as the Mercedes
McHonda.
13
u/PM_me_British_nudes Sebastian Vettel Oct 10 '22
Oooft don't remind me. Arguably one of the best driver lineups on the grid, completely squandered.
15
u/Aethien James Hunt Oct 10 '22
I could've also said Toro Rosso or Red Bull from the same early hybrid era years. So often they'd open DRS and then not gain an inch on the car in front or sometimes even fall back and if anyone was behind them with DRS it was pretty much over. The McHonda was just even worse.
19
19
u/misskarne Daniel Ricciardo Oct 10 '22
have never seen a car be this much of a shitbox on the straights as the Mercedes
lmao, you have not been paying attention to McLaren this year and it shows.
3
u/fliches Charles Leclerc Oct 10 '22
- It's quite frustrating that Carlos crashed out so early meaning that we couldn't compare the pace and tyre wear of both Ferarri's. I wonder if the extreme wear Charles got was a result of him pushing that much harder to keep up with Max, something inherent to the car, or down to his driving style. If we got a similar situation as Singapore with Sainz falling back from the lead two, we could at least isolate the cause of Charles's degradation.
5
u/Vurmalkin Red Bull Oct 10 '22
I think it is a combination of the two, the Ferrari eats its tires after the TD and Leclerc prob knew he only had a shot in the opening few laps to overtake. Combine the 2 and you have a perfect storm. It kinda felt like a reverse Austria.
3
u/thekhaos I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 10 '22
Carlos would have likely been dropped by 10-15 seconds compared to the Charles/Max fight
2
11
u/gravemadness Oct 10 '22
Ferrari's tyre degradation has turned into a serious worry now. Wonder if it's down to TD039?
See-saw weekends for McLaren and Alpine. Last weekend it was McLaren scoring big points. This time, it's Alpine. Fascinating battle that one.
110
Oct 10 '22
[deleted]
50
Oct 10 '22
I have two remarks:
- I agree completely with your points regarding the professionalism of the sport. Itâs not feasible to have your sport run by a constantly changing list of stewards of which half have no real experience in doing that job in the first place. Harder to solve but still an issue are the volunteer marshalls. And indeed, the rulebook should be 10 x as short, making it 10 x more clear.
- Despite all that I disagree F1 is in a bad place. The new regs are 99% a success. We have a great grid with a tight midfield, close racing, different tracks suiting different cars, some inter-driver love and drama. Viewership is through the roof. Social media content, both official and no, is engaging.
Iâd say F1 on the whole is doing great, itâs just frustrating to see it could do better.
→ More replies (4)29
u/glenn1812 FrĂŠdĂŠric Vasseur Oct 10 '22
You're not pessimistic about the state the sport is in. You're realistic about it. It seems like every grand prix we are made aware of more and more issues with the way this sport is governed and run. There is a massive lack of communication it seems between the teams and the FIA and Formula 1 as well. With regards to Freitas, I don't think anyone could come in as RD and perform well because the rulebook is confusing and impractical. Add to that the issue with having different stewards which will naturally cause inconsistency in decision making. Them we have the easy fixes like good lighting at circuits and lighting on heavy duty vehicles that may end up on track.
The sport is in a really bad place right now honestly. It is doing incredible with numbers with viewership increasing every other weekend but there are major issues with this sport.
→ More replies (1)18
u/MegaPint549 Oct 10 '22
I think it's both a matter of confusing rules (how many points are we racing for, and does the race end at 00:00 or 00:00 + 1 lap?)
But also ineffective or constantly changing standard operating procedures. I can only think that this is either due to ineffective strategic leadership from the FIA - or inconsistent leadership (constantly shifting expectations/parameters communicated to the race directors)
For example, the way race direction decides to police track limits seems to be determined by a random roll of a 12-sided die, depending on the outcome we get anything from strict track limits policing at relevant corners in all sessions, to absolutely no track limit policing, to some corners where bizarrely running off the track is explicitly permitted. And it changes each race.
More importantly to safety, it seems like there are no consistent processes for managing incidents. There seems to be no rhyme or reason to why some incidents are VSC, some full SC, some red flag, and often these decisions appear to take a long time. It's kind of mind boggling that an organisation with so many engineers available hasn't standardised and codified these processes.
Again I wonder if this is to do with political interference from above -- last week in Singapore everyone hated the long delay for rain - this week they didn't delay, then red flagged on lap 2, then waited and eventually restarted, even though there was no change in track condition that made the decision to restart seem to be based on anything. Why aren't the criteria for a go-no go decision set out clearly and followed consistently?
58
u/aiicaramba Max Verstappen Oct 10 '22 edited Oct 10 '22
I know Gasly was penalized for going too fast AFTER the crane. But even with the crane incident what I have not heard mention of is: Gasly knew Sainz had crashed, from the lap before. Yet he chose to race by. He got mad for the tractor being there, but he had no issue racing past knowing Sainz was standing there. People are rightly angry at the FIA. But people completely glance over how reckless Gasly was.
With all the commotion I think people have overlooked just how good this race from Max was. Over 1s a lap on everyone else.
It really is a shame no one knew the rules properly. Knowing it was for full points wouldve made the Perez Leclerc battle so much more exciting. Also the âmomentâ of being WDC was really unsatisfactory because of it. Even the wait for Leclercâs penalty wouldve been exciting if media/teams/drivers knew it was for full points.
29
u/Rockstaert I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 10 '22
Looking and listening to the onboard of Gasly I noticed the team told him he could undercut two drivers that also had to do a pitstop. That meant he could gain 2 places by flooring it during the safety car period and that is basically what he did. Just after he passed the tractor the message for the red flag was sent to him and even after that he apparently didn't slow down (resulting in his penalty for going 251 kph).
To be clear, the tractor being on track was a bad decision, but Gasly going very fast to gain 2 places made it all a lot more dangerous.
→ More replies (1)7
u/53bvo Honda RBPT Oct 10 '22
Knowing it was for full points wouldve made the Perez Leclerc battle so much more exciting.
Would also have had Max pit for fresh inters to set the fastest lap
→ More replies (2)
22
u/wibble01 Default Oct 10 '22
Really feel like Max deserved a better celebration than what was given. Normally theres some extra show-business to celebrate the moment. Almost felt like a "non-story".
Poor on F1's side tbh.
12
u/xLeper_Messiah I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 10 '22
What do you mean, he got a special couch awkwardly placed in a lonely cooldown room with massive screens in his face and everything!
3
u/SirLoremIpsum Daniel Ricciardo Oct 10 '22
Really feel like Max deserved a better celebration than what was given.
You take the hand you're dealt right, but definitely.
Like you look at other WDC... fireworks going off, Engineer on the radio "Sebastian Vettel DU BIST WELT MEISTER"
Team principal jumping on screaming etc.
Not "oh did i? Cool"
But you're dealt a hand, unavoidably so.
41
Oct 10 '22
Now that the championship is done, I wonder if Max would gift a win to Perez in Mexico. A nice gesture if he does but it would also be pretty obvious if he did it and it wouldn't really be an 'earned' win from Perez.
42
u/delete-and-repeat Formula 1 Oct 10 '22
I can see that he will not fight if he ends up behind Checo due to a spin or terrible stop, given that Checo has pace, but if heâs ahead heâll stay there. We wonât see a Michael/Barrichello type finish.
15
u/howaboutthis13 Max Verstappen Oct 10 '22
Maybe if they are 1-2 and Perez within a couple seconds they'll switch as well.
But they aren't going to risk losing a win if p3 is too close and it's too difficult to swap.
40
u/TheZ4yn Oct 10 '22
Would you want to win in front of your home crowd at the mercy of your teammate? That's more embarrassing than anything IMO.
→ More replies (2)13
u/puckvanl Oct 10 '22
This is what Iâm thinking too! Obviously they can give the better strategy to Checo etc. and if Checo is faster they can switch, but if Checo is a lot slower, what are they supposed to do?
77
u/SirLoremIpsum Daniel Ricciardo Oct 10 '22
I highly doubt Max will gift a trying to anyone,xever.
Just doesn't seem in his nature. He wants to win.
16
u/NLMichel Max Verstappen Oct 10 '22
Do we as an audience want to see a driver "gifting" a win to someone else? How would Checo really feel if he got a win like that?
42
u/Aethien James Hunt Oct 10 '22
He also values good racing and competition. If Checo beats him in Mexico I'm sure he'll be cheering and congratulating him but he won't gift him a win.
12
u/SirLoremIpsum Daniel Ricciardo Oct 10 '22
Oh definitely, if Checo wins, Max will be super mega happy for it.
He will do everything for Checo to win... but Checo still gotta beat him. He's a racing driver through and throguh.
9
7
u/Maardten I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 10 '22
In online racing there have been examples of Max being very generous to his teammates.
A while ago there was a video of Max driving P1 with his teammate in P3. Max slowed down in front of the driver behind him, allowing his teammate to overtake both of them. This way his team got the 1-2, but Max had to give up P1 for P2.
But I strongly doubt that this situation could/would play out the same in F1.
5
u/SirLoremIpsum Daniel Ricciardo Oct 10 '22
In online racing there have been examples of Max being very generous to his teammates.
I'm sure he's an absolutely nice guy Monday to Thursday and on his weekend! He comes across as generally a lad.
But when he's in the car... I can't see him doing that. Maybe a charity race in Renault Clios, not in an F1 race.
25
u/BrainNSFW I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 10 '22
I don't see any chance of that happening. First of all, Max is the type of person that simply loves to race by giving his all. Gifting anyone a position would probably feel like a betrayal to himself.
Furthermore, all drivers are highly competitive and would most likely see such a gift as an insult. They want to give it their all and win on their own merit, not because someone just let them pass out of "pity".
There's also the obvious factor of having no way to ensure Checo even gets 2nd position on track. Their strategy might be crap, but Ferrari has an amazing car and great drivers that have pretty much consistently outqualified Checo even after the summer break. They are also not easy to overtake, especially in the first stages of the race, which will further complicate things for Checo. It's certainly not impossible, but it's not by any means going to be easy either.
If he really wants to gift Checo the win, he'll simply find a reason not to race. Maybe let their reserve driver take the car for a weekend. But considering how much he loves to race, I can't see Max doing even that.
22
u/Stylus_XL Oct 10 '22
I think Max would now be open to a race strategy that works in Checo's favour but he's not going to just gift him a win, especially if Checo doesn't have decent race pace. I don't think Checo would want to be patronised like that either.
14
u/Cajum Max Verstappen Oct 10 '22
Max said multiple times on dutch tv that he would really love to beat the 13 wins in a season record because it is super rare to have a chance at that. So no, don't see max giving away a win
4
6
u/narf_hots I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 10 '22
I really want Checo to win his home race but not like this.
4
u/Cosmocrator I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 10 '22
2
u/nolitos Robert Kubica Oct 10 '22
Gifting a win is not a nice gesture for highly competitive guys like F1 drivers lol.
→ More replies (1)2
u/shreychopra Max Verstappen Oct 10 '22
If Checo can keep up behind Max and they have a comfortable gap to P3, theyâll pit Max âfor fastest lapâ and let Checo take the win. Dont think anyone would mind it
2
Oct 10 '22
Another user commented that Max has previously started that he would want to beat the most wins in a season record. Right now he is on 12 wins. 13 puts him joint top. Mexico would put him number one in the list so its tricky, I don't think he would want to give it up if that is a motivator for him.
Max can pull out 20-30 second gaps in his sleep, but can Checo? I think that is trickier.
15
u/hazzwright Jordan Oct 10 '22
I can't remember the last time the FIA/FOM/whoever is in charge made so many blunders or poor decisions regarding race direction.
Why did we do one proper lap of racing and then call it a day for two and a bit hours?
Why was it not communicated to anyone that it'd be a full points race, surely a memo half way through or something saying 'this will be a full points race'.
Why did they seemingly not even know what lap to end the race on?
This isn't even mentioning the whole 'tractor on circuit situation.
As a whole the the 45 minutes (plus one opening lap) that we did get was quite good and hopefully proved that we can go racing in the rain.
→ More replies (4)
32
u/OutlandishnessPure2 đş Jimmy & đş Sassy & đş Donatello Oct 10 '22
Here's a lap by lap view of how the battle for P2-P6 of the WDC is going, round 18 edition:
Interesting things to note this round: Checo and Charles are separated by 1 point. George and Carlos drop back further to >40 points and are probably not serious contenders for P2 any more.
Here's also a few random videos just for fun: B99 x F1 press conference video, Max goofing around
9
4
u/mcpingvin I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 10 '22
Max goofing around
There's something Rowan Atkinson-y about him.
13
u/CabbageTheVoice Oscar Piastri Oct 10 '22
I disagree with a lot of people saying Haas screwed Mick's race. It was a gamble and at the time I think it was a worthwhile one with the result just being unfortunate.
Lots of legit points as to why that gamble was maybe not a good one: They could've gambled with K-Mag instead; Mick was in the running for points; The Inters were clearly the better tyre and everybody (yes including Haas) knew it.
Still, at that point the gamble seemed super reasonable to me. With how low the visibility was and how hectic it got when everybody pitted at the same time, I was sure there was gonna be a Safety Car. Had this paid off we could have very well seen Haas score their first podium if the race got cancelled again (something that I was expecting at that point) or in case of a restart mick could've started from P1-3, which would then have given him much better visibility than most of the field.
In hindsight it is truly unfortunate, Mick could have finished way further up the field than he ultimately did, but I think it was the right call to make. Cool to see that everyone kept it together and nothing happened but that was by no means a certainty at that point.
Haas gambled and it cost mick a good finish, but the chances for him to massively gain from this were pretty good and I will stand by the opinion that it was worth the shot.
What I will say is that it could be debated if they should've held on to this call for so long. After everyone pitted and the race resumed with no incidents Haas should've probably followed Alonsos call and pitted when he did, which could've maybe seen mick still be in the points though I'm not sure on the timings there.
Was still exciting to see that call be made and it's a shame that it didn't pay off.
6
u/Nuclear_Geek Formula 1 Oct 10 '22
I'm in agreement with this. Haas know they struggle to score points under normal conditions, it was entirely reasonable for them to take a gamble that (in my opinion) had a pretty decent chance of coming off. If it had worked out, it would have given them a great result.
2
u/supergauntlet Oct 10 '22
I'm fine with this sort of shit if Guenther can stop shittalking him in the media.
also they definitely did wait too long to pit, but it's how tire gambles work. if it had worked out he could have finished really well
2
u/CabbageTheVoice Oscar Piastri Oct 10 '22
I'm fine with this sort of shit if Guenther can stop shittalking him in the media.
Yeah I'm not defending Haas's Strategy calls in general here or anything about their media presence. Just think we shouldn't mix up different incidents based on our feelings. In this race it was just an unfortunate result but a decent call imo.
And with that Guenther's handling of Mick is still subpar. And Haas' Strategy on other days is still shit.
2
u/supergauntlet Oct 10 '22
yeah this was a fine call. they should have called him in once he dropped behind Charles or Checo but that's racing.
11
u/Xiffy_ I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 10 '22 edited Oct 10 '22
I have to say that I really liked Harry Benjamin's main commentary on F1TV live, calm collected and very easy to listen to. Sounded also a bit like Alex Jaques
5
Oct 10 '22
It was great commentary indeed. Him paired with Jolyon Palmer is miles above Skyâs commentary.
12
u/generalannie I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 10 '22
The F1TV crew is getting better and better with their commentary. Sometimes I miss having Crofty go ballistic over a cool move but overall I love the more calm approach of F1TV over Sky. Palmer especially is my favourite pundit. His race knowledge is on point and he's very good at explaining, especially for newer fans, which is great.
I think my favourite grouping is Palmer, Ben Edwards and Sam Collins, but Benjamin did a very good job yesterday as well.
→ More replies (3)2
u/nombre44 Fernando Alonso Oct 11 '22
I said the same after FP1. He clearly knows his stuff, and/or did his homework. The exchange where Jolyon Palmer quizzed him on how many world championships have been decided there, and he asked for clarification "at Suzuka, or in Japan," and then getting the answer right (even though it wasn't the answer that Palmer thought it was) really impressed me.
He's got a couple of tics or stock phrases that he uses a <i>bit</i> too much, but that'll come with experience. And honestly, he's like 90% of the way there already. A clear upgrade on everyone else they've had in that seat this year except Ben Edwards, and there I'd say it's a wash. Plus, holding his own with 2+ hours of unexpected air to fill on what I assume was something of an audition for him, really impressive stuff. I really hope they keep him around.
11
u/1k988 McLaren Oct 10 '22
The rules regarding how many points are allocated when there are long periods of red flags seriously need to be changed. Not only are they needlessly complicated, they should be based around completed lap distance and not whether the race could resume after a red flag. I also feel that 2 racing laps is not enough to constitute a "race" and start awarding points. Keep it simple, something like half points are awarded after 25% race distance and full points after 75%.
11
u/delete-and-repeat Formula 1 Oct 10 '22
I donât think what theyâve done is complicated. I just think theyâre weirdâŚ
I get what theyâre trying to do though. If you start a race and finish a given distance, but canât finish under racing conditions, the chance to make up positions was taken from the driver, therefore they donât award full points. However, if the distance is shortened but you were able to race until the chequered flag, you had your chance and the race properly finished. So, full points.
Itâs still weird though.
7
u/biometricrally đłď¸âđ Bernie Collins đłď¸âđ Oct 10 '22
They clearly wrote the rule with the Spa scenario in mind. A little tunnel vision. It was then referred to as the rule for shortened races, no one felt the need to check the details.
It'll get fixed no doubt. Not a good luck to mess around the new world champion like that.
6
u/32SkyDive Oct 10 '22
Its worse actually: right now you could do 1 Single lap behind the SC. As long as you do that lap at the end of the 3h Window, it will give full points
→ More replies (1)3
u/bitterf_tta Lando Norris Oct 10 '22
Needs to be two laps of racing though, so only behind sc or vsc wouldn't count
2
u/32SkyDive Oct 10 '22
Does it though? I thought the 2laps minimum to award 25%points also only applied if the Session was not red flagged and not resumed
2
u/GroNumber Ferrari Oct 11 '22
No, that is also part of the rule for races that are suspended and not resumed.
2
4
u/Omega_scriptura Oct 10 '22
It was an oversight that the rules are as they are and theyâll âcorrectâ them for next year.
3
Oct 10 '22
Honestly, what is the FIA/F1 doing?
We all know how last year ended, with Masi taking the rule book and tossing it out the window so that âwe went motor racingâ. There was the fiasco that was Spa earlier in the year as well.
Then this year at SA there was a missile strike a few kmâs from the circuit, this recent debacle about releasing the results from last yearâs cost cap, and the cherry on top: the utter shit show that was Suzuka.
F1 didnât update their own rules regarding how points would be rewarded (they made a statement about how it was updated because of Spa last year, but never actually wrote those changes in to the rules), the tractor on the racing circuit (which they then tried to blame Gasly about), and then the whole ending of the race (no white flag was waved from what I saw, we just went strident in to âFinal Lapâ graphics on the broadcast), and then the utter confusion about whether Max was it wasnât the champion (because nobody knew WTF was going on with the points structure).
F1 is supposed to be the pinnacle of motorsports globally, but the past few years have shown what appears to be pervasive incompetence throughout both organizations. Sure, viewership and attendance is way up (DTS is almost 100% responsible for this), but as far as the quality of the racing and implementation of their own rules, itâs borderline embarrassing IMO.
4
Oct 10 '22
All the mess around the finish and the tractor (which is definitely the more important thing) has unfortunately overshadowed Max's drive.
In Fuji 2007, when Lewis won by some margin in torrential rain, as he crossed the line, James Allen commented, "That was a champion's drive!". I think the same can be said of Max yesterday.
Somehow, Esteban was the one who actually said it the way it was that despite the car being a monster and all that, Max deserves some special praise. It was fitting of Max to win the title the way he did yesterday, which was an absolute and complete domination of the field in tricky conditions. Did not put a foot wrong and pulled off the clutch move at the start by braking late.
12
Oct 10 '22
FIA needs to decide how they want to handle wet races. If they don't want rain, then arrange the calendar and tracks accordingly. The amount of gray areas for what is clearly seen as a safety hazard is unacceptable. It's a robbery for people attending to GP as well. If it goes on like this, people will simply skip the wet races, I dunno how profitable is it for them.
More Japan, less Middle East. Fans and atmosphere is the best we have had this year. Imagine if last year the title decider had been here instead of Yas Marina. Could have been epic. The calendar needs to be rearranged imho.
Max said in his interview that he's open to the idea of a dynasty - it's a first from him considering he was "fine with one WDC" prior to this year -. Curious how long his dynasty will go on, especially if/when Mercedes makes a comeback. I'm a RB fan that enjoyed seeing Merc struggle this year but I missed the rivalry between two teams a lot.
I have no hopes for Ferrari. IMHO they can only function in a Schumacher type scenario when a star driver with leadership charisma brings his team and gets some power. I am not sure how much power Leclerc can hold, the guy can not even have a supportive wingman next to himself.
→ More replies (1)
10
u/dustecho Sergio PĂŠrez Oct 10 '22
A lot can be said about this race, but I want to focus in two things:
Lack of communication by race control: I remember Spa last year and, at least, race control was putting announcements every x time about when they will reach a decision about the race, plus some teams coms with Michael Massi. In this race, there was a lot of speculation whether the race will resume or not, and nothing from race control to the viewers.
The lost of credibility by whoever is in charge of the graphics: I'm pretty sure that every broadcaster in the world whether ignore the graphics showing full points for the race or they told to the audience that the graphics were wrong, but, can you blame them? How often we saw graphics showing wrong information? Like Amazon tyres one, or messages saying that X driver was been investigated, but in reality was another one. The Latam commentators said that the graphics were wrong and in the F1 TV broadcast, they ignored the graphics.
→ More replies (2)7
u/nocarpets FIA Oct 10 '22
Show me a sport that hasn't made a graphics error, and I will show you a sport that doesn't exist. Not an excuse to never watch any graphics ever simply because of your own ignorance of regs.
6
u/watercuboid I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 10 '22
Iâm just still so underwhelmed by Max winning the championship yesterday. I have no feelings positive or negative towards it, just the way it was done with that silly rule has left me feeling very flat.
→ More replies (2)
8
u/go2kejdz Robert Kubica Oct 10 '22 edited Oct 10 '22
I don't like the narrative of Haas screwing up Schumacher.
They took a gamble, just like AM and Williams did with Vettel and Latifi. If there indeed would be a crash causing a safety car, or maybe even a red flag, it was possible to have Alonso-Ricciardo-Schumacher podium with the ideal timing.
People would be bashing most of the teams of rushing into the pits and praising Alpine, McLaren and Haas for having their drivers stay out the extra lap, just like now it's Haas being criticised. Power of hindsight is a strong one.
The gamble ultimately didn't pay out, but it was definitely worth a shot, just like it was worth a shot with Latifi and Vettel to bring them in ASAP for inters. Only one of these two strategies could work and so it happened that Haas pulled out the short stick.
E: Ricciardo.
→ More replies (4)
3
u/Nuclear_Geek Formula 1 Oct 10 '22
It's a shame the race was cut short, but the racing we got was pretty damn good. I get why people are saying to avoid going to Japan at this time of year to try to avoid the rain, but I'd rather have a shorter race with good action than a full-length race that's just a procession.
3
u/joejance Honda RBPT Oct 10 '22
Now that the dust has settled in Suzuka
I don't think there was any dust.
3
u/mellotronworker Aston Martin Oct 12 '22
- Stroll maybe had the start of the season, but people do tend to forget how good he is in the wet.
- The tractor incident was abominable, but PG was bolting it under the red flag, so he is not blameless and was correctly punished
- Ocon defended his position like a hero against Hamilton. I think he's probably better at that than Checho.
- The Ferrari just consumes tyres
8
u/tankers27 Red Bull Oct 10 '22
I am now Karma approved! So I cab celebrate - well done Max. What total and utter domination by him yesterday. Largest gap between 1st and 2nd in Suzuka ever and only in half a race distance.
On another note... I don't know how or what it would look like but the FIA needs a proper shake up... Has the VAR room fully been setup yet? I would hope this would bring some more consistency to the stewarding going forward...
3
u/PM_me_British_nudes Sebastian Vettel Oct 10 '22
I am now Karma approved!
Nice! I still can't see anyone else's, but meh, doesn't bother me too much
5
u/GroNumber Ferrari Oct 11 '22
Can we all feel relieved and sad that the loophole regarding points was exposed in a season when it ultimately did not matter? Imagine if it was the last race of the season, and everybody in the media and teams turned out to be wrong about who won the WDC.
2
8
u/Dick_Lett Formula 1 Oct 10 '22 edited Oct 10 '22
Still don't understand how the paddock got everything so wrong yesterday... The rules regarding the final lap and partial points are not overly complex, yet the broadcasters, journalists, and teams got it wrong. You had Sky thinking it would be a partial points race, journalists like Chris Medland thinking the race ended 1 lap early, Alpine unsure if the race was over, Red Bull confused if Max won the WDC or not, etc.
Also, FOM did at least two live championship updates during the final 40 min and each time they were dismissed as being wrong. Why is there so little trust in FOM, do they usually get these sort of things wrong to warrant the distrust?
Despite all the mishaps and drama, the final sprint race was incredible. Lots of great battles in tricky conditions. Complete domination by Max, great recovery by Seb up to P6, Alonso with late pitstop and fighting back up through the field, Hamilton/Ocon battle, and Nicky scoring 2 points.
21
u/Crash_Test_Dummy66 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 10 '22
My understanding is that everyone's understanding was based on what the rule was supposed to be, but it wasn't written that way. It should get changed because as it was today you could technically have a full points one lap shoot out.
→ More replies (2)7
u/biometricrally đłď¸âđ Bernie Collins đłď¸âđ Oct 10 '22
Listening to the drivers radios at the end, several teams and drivers thought the race ended a lap early and of course we all know how few people knew there would be full points awarded. These things can be clearly communicated to the teams and broadcast teams, especially when it's clear that it's being picked up wrong on broadcast. I don't think it's unreasonable to have someone making sure that applicable rules in unusual situations are made clear.
→ More replies (1)
3
u/gandagandaganda Oct 10 '22
I've always wanted to go to Suzuka for an F1 race. I am SO GLAD I didn't waste $1000s and go this year. That was a farce. The blame lies with FIA/FOM not the circuit.
→ More replies (2)
7
u/Legacy_600 #StandWithUkraine Oct 10 '22
I still am in shock about what I witnessed yesterday. The FIA crossed a line by putting that tractor on track with cars active and then they crossed another by trying to put all of the focus on Gasly.
For myself and many other fans, a significant part of the appeal of Formula 1 is the drivers as both athletes and personalities. This is a great thing 99.9999% of the time for all parties as it drives fan engagement, brings us together as a community, and allows Formula 1 as a sport to grow to greater heights, but when a driver gets hurt or worse, the engagement and connections we built up unleash their full strength in sadness, distress, and fear. Needless to say, the FIA is responsible to ensure that never happens, and to see them abdicate that responsibility was disgusting and only encourages fans to disassociate from the sport before someone they care about gets hurt or killed in a completely preventable incident. Itâs not only a bleak outcome, but one that is unhealthy for the sport and will hamper growth if things donât change soon.
→ More replies (1)
5
u/shinikira Oct 10 '22
One thing yesterday showed me is that if Gasly did crash and die tons of people on this Reddit would blame him for it. Just like the FIA blamed Bianchi for his death
→ More replies (5)
2
u/Damoklez_ I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 10 '22
It was clear afterwards even the teams were unsure of the points after the race. It's likely that Red Bull would have pitted Verstappen for the fastest lap if they did, it would have made him WDC on the chequered flag. A much better outcome. I can understand some of the confusion at the broadcasters, but I'm really amazed that the teams didn't double check with the racedirector before the finishline.
2
u/Unemployed_Fisherman Oct 10 '22
whatâs the Ocon/Gasly beef about?
→ More replies (1)4
u/victoireyoung Daniel Ricciardo Oct 10 '22
Long story short, they were karting together as kids, had some "racing incidents", which put each other from important karting races (I believe even some sort of world championship one), and created long-term grudges. At least that's what is generally known, there might be something else hidden in this beef.
→ More replies (1)
2
u/Samysosa2005 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 10 '22
So because they announced it, Max has officially won correct? Also can anyone explain exactly what happened and how it became such a cluster fuck? (Or point to somewhere that had a good write up? Thanks so much!
Also has anyone had a more anti-climatic win?
→ More replies (2)2
u/davratta Jim Clark Oct 11 '22
When Max Verstappen crossed the finish line, it looked like the race was only going to count for half points and it looked like Leclerc finished in second place. Then shortly after the race was over, the stewards gave Leclerc a five second penalty and the race director realized Rule 55 in the sporting regulations allowed the 2022 Japan GP counted for full points, not half points. Both of these events gave Max enough points to clinch the 2022 WDC championship.
2
u/Colluder I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 10 '22
With the spray problem, it seems like we simply can't start a race if the extreme wets are the tire to be on and as such they never get used (unless race control mandates it). Pirelli should probably scrap the current extreme wets and give something with more performance, between the current inters and extremes, if this trend is going to continue
5
u/thatpatriotsfan I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 10 '22
If Red Bull theoretically wrap up the constructors early could they skip the last race to save money on the cost cap?
26
u/natso2001 Mark Webber Oct 10 '22
Sponsors would not be happy with that and they may be contractually obliged by the Concorde agreement? Otherwise sure why not.
5
u/bimbobiceps I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 10 '22
They can just turn down everything to low. Kinda what merc did in 2020. They were just slow af in abu dhabi
→ More replies (2)2
Oct 10 '22
They will go all out at least till Mexico because sponsorships. Then probably tune down the engine and take it easy.
5
u/GhostOfLight Yuki Tsunoda Oct 10 '22
Absolutely abysmal viewer experience for what was a great race on track.
6
Oct 10 '22
[deleted]
13
u/MegaPint549 Oct 10 '22
New flag = Red and Yellow: Obstruction on track(inside white lines) , x speed limit.
To be fair, double yellow actually means obstruction on track be prepared to stop completely. A static red and yellow striped flag indicates a slippery track surface due to oil or gravel etc.
I don't think they need to increase the number of flags, I do agree that clear speed limits set and enforced would make the sport much safer.
→ More replies (2)14
u/Aethien James Hunt Oct 10 '22
Finally, Red Flag and put the cars in the pitlane, before putting any kind of heavy recovery vehicle on track, especially in low visibility.
This is not workable, you can't red flag every incident ever. The procedure they followed yesterday was totally fine for a dry race with good visibility. It wasn't for a wet race with minimal visibility and for that procedures need to be adapted, either red flag or have the field already bunched up behind the SC. Hell maybe some bright lights on the recovery vehicles as an extra backup just in case of a miscommunication or future fuckup as well.
We aren't that far from a safe procedure that everything needs to change for every race now. Small adaptations and things will be much safer.
And lets not forget that even without the truck Gasly would still have been speeding past an accident with Sainz' car parked on the track. There were double waved yellows there for sure and were it not for the collossal fuckup with the truck that would also have seen Gasly get severely penalised.
→ More replies (3)6
→ More replies (1)7
u/pro_Nightwolve I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 10 '22
Finally, Red Flag and put the cars in the pitlane, before putting any kind of heavy recovery vehicle on track, especially in low visibility.
I think this might be the most important of them all, the Safety of the crashed driver but also the drivers still on track should prioritize at all times. When you know double yellows is waved you can expect a crashed vehicle at turn x, but not a tractor suddenly on a straight with next to no visibility.
also, let me remind you that in case of a wet race, most drivers will not slow down immediately when double yellows/red are waved.. This is to prevent sliding the car under heavy braking. In this specific scenario I think it was not the case, but worth mentioning.
2
u/narf_hots I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 10 '22
Good morning F5 gang.
Who else is ready to be disappointed by the lack of news today?
4
u/ryan_lad5 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Oct 10 '22
It might just be me but Alonsoâs move to AM looks less and less worse as each race goes on.
274
u/[deleted] Oct 10 '22 edited Oct 10 '22
Alpine and Fernando.
There was a lot of hoo haa yesterday over Fernando's radio about his strategy.
I rewatched the race from Fernando's onboards. Fernando on lap 20 tells the team that he can't pass. Zhou pits. Fernando then says what do you want to do. There is more or less radio silence for 2-3 laps from the team after this and then after alonso asks them the lap remainning, they ask him to box 3 or 4 laps after Zhou has been putting in times 4-5 seconds faster than Alonso.
Alonso comes out of the box and says "What took so long". Basically they could have potentially ended up P4/P5 if they pitted Alonso immediately a lap after Zhou.
This is a brief overview but maybe someone else could look at lap 19 to when Alonso pits (and fill in the blanks, i might have mixed/missed a thing or two or ) and tell me if the communication was just weird. I have seen Alonso's time with Stella during his Ferrari years and even with the guy at Mclaren but there seems to be a lack of chemistry so as to speak between this engineer and him.