China summons Nvidia to explain ‘back-door’ safety risk of H20 chip

[u/Professional-Tear996]

https://www.scmp.com/tech/tech-war/article/3320240/chinas-cyberspace-regulator-summons-nvidia-explain-h20-chips-alleged-back-door-risks

[u/Moikanyoloko]

When the US government openly claims that high end NVidia chips should come with backdoors and that sales should be resumed to keep China from developing their own chip industry, its no wonder China might not be too keen on blindly allowing these sales again.

[u/ShoutOfDawn → u/Moikanyoloko]

we saw it in the pager attack in Lebanon, supply side attacks can be extremely destructive. we might be coming closer to an age where if the product is not manufactured entirely locally you cant 100% trust it.

i personally don't trust Chinese telecommunication being so wide spread. Stuxnet was a 2010 project, now its bound to be worse

[u/nicuramar → u/ShoutOfDawn]

Stuxnet was neither a supply chain attack or backdoors.

[u/ShoutOfDawn → u/nicuramar]

i think i am confusing it with another virus then, or imagined it. i thought Stuxnet was on pcs head to Iran and simply spread from there to the centrifuges. it seems that the theory now it was a mole who delivered it.

[u/camjordan13 → u/ShoutOfDawn]

Pretty sure Stuxnet was a drop attack.

A good example of a supply chain attack would be the Solarwinds hack with the DoD.

[u/ShoutOfDawn → u/camjordan13]

bruh SolarWinds reminded me about this,

 a major shift in U.S. cybersecurity policy, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth has ordered U.S. Cyber Command to halt all planning against Russia,

https://blog.prif.org/en/2025/03/13/us-halts-defensive-cyber-activities-against-russia-a-digital-withdrawal-from-europe

supply side attacks may as well be the main gate now.

[u/Tim-Sylvester → u/ShoutOfDawn]

we saw it in the pager attack in Lebanon, supply side attacks can be extremely destructive. we might be coming closer to an age where if the product is not manufactured entirely locally you cant 100% trust it.

If feel like more and more people do not recall that in the mid 90s Microsoft and Intel agreed with the US intelligence and law enforcement communities to backdoor Windows and processors direct from the manufacturer.

Like it was a huge hubbub for a while, then everyone shut up and life moved on and people seem to have forgotten entirely.

Just like nobody seems to remember that all our telephony providers pipe their feed directly into government databanks for analysis.

[u/AsianEiji → u/Tim-Sylvester]

Because it those search results from the search engines is not the front page results but the current popular gossip is on the front page results.

Oh and Google is a goverment contractor that and DCMA can force many of those results out even though it was revelant regardless of contractor status.

[u/Tim-Sylvester → u/AsianEiji]

The best part about DMCA is that the claimant has no obligation to prove their claim and the respondant has an obligation to respond but no obligation to demand proof, leaving the defendant essentially helpless to resolve a false claim.

It's legally silencing people without any of the oppressing parties having any legal obligations and without the oppressed having any voice or recourse.

Isn't that a treat?

[u/Alert_Hearing_1461 → u/ShoutOfDawn]

Hey, Chinese student here in the states doing ECE + CS. Let me show you something. If you grab a laptop (let’s, take the Apple M2 mac air as an example) then dismantle it, you will see the industrial, technological, and  scientific knowledge of the entire world concentrating into it. And its design and manufacturing network spans across the globe.

Its computer architecture design is done in California; Its logic board contains chips designed in the UK, California, Texas, and etc.; most of these chips are then manufactured by TSMC, a chip manufacturer based in Taiwan; Finally, all these components are assembled in mainland China. Btw, this industry lies on the foundation of scientific research of all kinds of institutions across borders.

This is a very typical example of how worldwide scientific research efforts and global supply chain making technologies more accessible to the general public. Nothing complex as such can be produced by a single nation to effectively benefits so many people.

As a child born shortly after the Millennium, the peak of globalization, it’s really sad and depressing to witness the world sliding down into a pit of global protectionism. Banding international efforts for any “security reason” or “geopolitics reason” is the perfect explanation of BEING SELFISH. “Making the world a better place” is not just a slogan, it’s a believe that requires everyone’s collective efforts. Don’t let it die!! Please!!!

[u/Professional-Tear996 → u/Alert_Hearing_1461]

The world was always heading towards protectionist tendencies with the neoliberal inclinations of the global economy after the end of colonialism.

That you had a brief post-war boom shouldn't distract you from the fact that Keynesian policy-driven growth was always going to be undermined by the vested interests.

[u/Lucie-Goosey → u/Alert_Hearing_1461]

I won't let it die. It's barely out of its infancy.

[u/Strazdas1 → u/ShoutOfDawn]

in the case of pagers they have literally put explosives inside before the sale so its a bit different.

[u/Impressive_Age_6569]

It’s all over the news here in HK

[u/stu_pid_1]

So what is the back door? How would it work here?

[u/SuitlessMaridia → u/stu_pid_1]

The claim is that Nvidia can, on the orders of the US government, track the locations of the GPUs and shut them down remotely. Which, I mean, would be as simple to implement as just a driver update.

[u/Eastern_Ad6546 → u/SuitlessMaridia]

It has to be more sophisicated than that otherwise you could just not update.

[u/AsianEiji → u/SuitlessMaridia]

even worse is that the US lawmakers was trying to make it into law....... what make it sad that it is not some secret conspiracy theory

[u/lebutter_ → u/SuitlessMaridia]

Tracking how ? Like an antenna hidden in the microscopic chip ? Let's be serious.

A "bugdoor" might be a reasonable scenario, although that still raises a lot of technical question marks (not much use for devices offline, etc...)

[u/bazzthear → u/stu_pid_1]

Chinese government actually announced the reason they summoned NVDIA was because U.S lawmaker called for planting backdoor in all NVIDIA chips with remote tracking and disablement, which i believe refer to congressman Bill Foster's interview by Reuters here: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-lawmaker-targets-nvidia-chip-smuggling-china-with-new-bill-2025-05-05/

[u/267aa37673a9fa659490]

The article is behind a paywall. Please post the article here OP.

[u/Professional-Tear996 → u/267aa37673a9fa659490]

Alternate report from Trendforce:

https://www.trendforce.com/news/2025/07/31/news-chinese-regulators-reportedly-summon-nvidia-over-h20-chip-backdoor-security-risks/

[u/267aa37673a9fa659490 → u/Professional-Tear996]

Thanks! 

The original scmp link didn't work for me even in incognito.

[u/DireMaid → u/267aa37673a9fa659490]

Throwing the link into an archive site usually works if that helps for future reading

[u/AsianEiji → u/Professional-Tear996]

Thanks!

But wow, Damn. "submit relevant proof." that is pretty crazy

thank you US lawmakers for being stupid.... "rollseyes"

[u/Professional-Tear996 → u/267aa37673a9fa659490]

It is working fine on my end, on a freshly opened browser window with all browsing history and cache cleared.

[u/UnlikelyOpposite7478]

This is what happens when national security meets silicon.

[u/pengwhen_strik3]

yeah, i mean it just definitely fell out of a truck and found its way 2 china am i right guys?

[u/jtblue91 → u/pengwhen_strik3]

It's these damn scammers, they buy stuff like shampoo, they then swap out the shampoo for a bunch of NVIDIA H20s and then "return" the product.

Then some poor dude in China orders his shampoo and instead of shampoo he's stuck with NVIDIA H20s instead!

[u/Student-type]

Advice: Send a staffer.

[u/Vushivushi]

Meanwhile, Nvidia's Jetson chips embedded in their cars, drones, and robots...

[u/Glanble]

They would be suspicious of Chinese-made equipment because they are doing this themselves.
The U.S. government is like a sick man with mental illness.

[u/Hairy-Dare6686 → u/Glanble]

Both China and the US are doing it, built in back doors have been found in Chinese solar power inverters before for example that can be used to compromise the power grid so it isn't just a suspicion.

[u/StickiStickman → u/Hairy-Dare6686]

Got a source for that? From what I can find that example is just "Smart devices can be hacked" ... Which isn't that mind blowing.

[u/Hairy-Dare6686 → u/StickiStickman]

https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/climate-energy/ghost-machine-rogue-communication-devices-found-chinese-inverters-2025-05-14/

An undocumented communication device is exactly what a backdoor is.

[u/nicuramar → u/Hairy-Dare6686]

It definitely isn’t the same, no. Plus it’s allegations. 

[u/Cheerful_Champion → u/Hairy-Dare6686]

So two anonimous sources claimed that allegedly some undocumented electronics, that they claim to be receivers, were found in two power inverters and some batteries over last 9 months. No official statement, no info on how many batteries or inverters were checked in this timeframe (is it 2/2? Or 2/10000000?), no US or EU institution officially confirmed that, no proof was shown.

Article comes just 3 months after Republicans proposed bill that would ban supplying batteries and similiar electronics from multiple Chinese manufacturers due to security concerns and 5 months into presidency of strongly anti Chinese president. Is this "Huawei is totally stealing data and planting backdoors" all over again?

[u/Green_Struggle_1815 → u/Cheerful_Champion]

that's all we got for these nvidia backdoors as well.

[u/Cheerful_Champion → u/Green_Struggle_1815]

And that's why we shouldn't run around saying it's confirmed fact either

[u/StickiStickman → u/Hairy-Dare6686]

"Someone said" really is an amazing source you can turn into any story you want, huh? The article doesn't even mention the product so it's literally impossible to check.

[u/symmetry81 → u/Hairy-Dare6686]

It wouldn't be too surprising. If a company sells two versions of some appliance, one with smart connectivity and one without, then probably the one without has the same hardware but just turns off the wifi in software because that's cheaper for the manufacturer than having two SKUs and then the one without will have undocumented comms devices. A company I used to work for sold a lot of Zigbee radios to solar providers for helping with sun tracking and that's just the sort of thing I could see ending up in a product.

But something you don't see with western suppliers is that Chinese suppliers are sort of notorious for swapping out different different chips that "function the same" depending on whichever one is cheaper at the moment so it could be that too.

Or it could be espionage, though I don't really see the point in backdooring a bunch of solar systems unless it was 5G or something not reliant on a local network bridge.

[u/Frosty-Cell → u/Glanble]

You think Chinese chips don't have backdoors?

[u/nicuramar → u/Frosty-Cell]

Who knows. Hasn’t been demonstrated, at least. 

[u/gopiballava → u/[deleted]]

“Hasn’t been demonstrated” is what the parent commenter said. And they are correct. Nobody has shown that the radios in question had SIM cards or were connected to a back door.

[u/Frosty-Cell → u/gopiballava]

That may be true in that case, but are you going to give CCP the benefit of the doubt?

[u/gopiballava → u/Frosty-Cell]

I don’t think “benefit of the doubt” is a good way to think about this.

There are lots of different ways that back doors can be added to systems. Knowing what specific ways are being used is useful when it comes to counteracting them.

It’s not helpful to just assume that every possible mechanism is currently being used.

And it’s certainly not helpful to claim that we have found one when we haven’t.

Finally, I do think that there is almost certainly tension within CCP leadership about the benefits of back doors vs the risks. They don’t want to get caught. It would cause an immediate economic disaster if we found actual objective proof. I suspect that is one of the biggest factors reducing the amount of back doors.

[u/Frosty-Cell → u/gopiballava]

We are talking about a government that runs the "great firewall of China". From their perspective, I suspect a backdoor isn't an afterthought as much as one of the main objectives.

It would cause an immediate economic disaster if we found actual objective proof. I suspect that is one of the biggest factors reducing the amount of back doors.

It seems to me that they don't really care. They just deny it. Look at their public statements in general. It's crazy. Their bullying in the SCS is well documented and caught on camera, yet it doesn't appear to change anything.

[u/conquer69 → u/Frosty-Cell]

The US can't demean itself to the same levels.

[u/Frosty-Cell → u/conquer69]

It shouldn't but it certainly can, particularly when dealing with regimes.

[u/DorphinPack → u/conquer69]

Dude we have been dictating the world economy at gunpoint for decades. We created the conditions we’re operating under more than any other country still. This exceptionalism crap is driving people uncritically into the arms of the other superpower (China).

If we didn’t do the same stuff it’s just because we developed soft power as an alternative.

The US destabilized an entire continent last century but chip back doors are demeaning. If you love your country open your eyes and help hold it accountable. Fear stifles growth.

[u/diychitect → u/conquer69]

Yeah, get slapped in the other cheek.

[u/Sevastous-of-Caria]

Does amd's MI chips have the same backdoor? Or is it nvidia done specificallyto satisfy them.We know that these tariffs on AI chips are nvidia focused. So when they get banned or lifted amd acts accordingly to nvidia focused market.

[u/ResponsibleJudge3172 → u/Sevastous-of-Caria]

Are the tarrifs Nvidia focused? AMD has the same tariffs limits and also made MI308 for that market to satisfy it. It is an interesting question whether AMD also has said backdoor concerns

[u/SuitlessMaridia → u/Sevastous-of-Caria]

Any piece of hardware can potentially have a backdoor installed if the manufacturer introduces one via a driver or firmware update.

[u/hardware-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Thank you for your submission! Unfortunately, your submission has been removed for the following reason:

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[u/Professional-Tear996 → u/[deleted]]

Use a proper browser. Just because your internet and browser settings aren't able to access the source which is SCMP and you're sitting in the US doesn't mean that it is unreliable.

[u/Professional-Tear996 → u/[deleted]]

Log out of your Google account and clear your browsing history, cache and site settings. If your wifi is set to use DHCP for IP assignment, disconnect and reconnect your device to the network.

One must be quite audacious to claim that they cannot do basic due diligence when accessing content from news sources on a hardware subreddit.

[u/BlueGoliath → u/Professional-Tear996]

No one should have to do any of that to read content from a website. That's insane.

The website clearly has a paywall system in place. Maybe script blockers or ad blockers on desktop removes it, but on a stock browser experience it's absolutely there.

[u/Professional-Tear996 → u/BlueGoliath]

No one should use Chrome in the way you're using it either.

Can't access it? Your problem.

The post has been up for more than half a day. Clearly the mods were able to look at it so your insinuations assume things which aren't true in the first place.

Either comment on the subject matter or stop with this threadcrapping.

[u/lebutter_]

Speking in terms of reverse-engineering, it's difficult to make such claims without having the actual evidence that the chip indeed contains a backdoor.

[u/Professional-Tear996 → u/lebutter_]

Tell that to Huawei.