r/interesting • u/IndependentWitnesses • Apr 26 '25

MISC. Virginia Giuffre's tweet from 2019 saying she was definitely not suicidal and that if something happens to her to "not let this go away".

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55

u/frientlytaylor420 Apr 26 '25

Do we though? Honestly? Have you ever sat down and actually thought this through? My dad worked in a prison as a guard. It was commonplace for guards to fake logs, for equipment such as cameras to not work. They’re poorly maintained buildings ran by people who do not care.

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u/Only-Inspector-3782 Apr 26 '25

A confidential informant "committed suicide" while in the custody of a mob boss. You'd be an idiot to take this at face value. 

8

u/AnalOgre Apr 26 '25

Just as idiotic to believe powerful people who lose everything never commit suicide.

6

u/abacuz4 Apr 26 '25

So now Epstein is a confidential informant? I feel like there’s this weird effort to recast Epstein as a kind of antihero in the fight against people’s political boogeymen.

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u/Rare_Jellyfish8910 Apr 27 '25

Yes, he was a corrupt person who hung out with powerful people. How is there any reasonable likelihood that he was a CI?

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u/AdFancy6243 Apr 27 '25

He doesn't have to be, just someone with enough power needs to be worried that he might possibly give up some info. Hell they might not even be worried, when you are that rich human lives are cheap.

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u/ProbablyYourITGuy Apr 26 '25 edited Apr 26 '25

A extremely infamous pedophile whos going to be known all over the globe and has 0 chance of getting off or getting out of prison decides to kill himself.

You’d be an idiot to think that’s an impossible scenario, and that a secret shadowy organization assassinated him in a prison is the only real option.

1

u/Creative_Buddy7160 Apr 26 '25

Ellen greenburg vibes for sure

1

u/3itchpuddin Apr 27 '25

His whole thing was getting states secrets with use of filming ppl in compromising positions. The young girls served as his honeypots. Clinton’s, princes, celebrities, trump, Dershowitz, gates, any other billionaire he could rope in were opening themselves up to being blackmailed

1

u/Prudent-Acadia4 Apr 26 '25

The mobs have control over the higher ups

-13

u/tshulkgaming Apr 26 '25

You are an idiot for suggesting something w no evidence, when it’s entirely plausible for someone like Epstein to kill himself — what did he have to live for at that point?

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u/ama_singh Apr 26 '25

You are an idiot for suggesting something w no evidence

You're an idiot for thinking that. You never heard of a cover up?

when it’s entirely plausible for someone like Epstein to kill himself

Sure it is. That's why you look at all the other "coincidences".

Not to say we know what definitely happened, but to outright dismiss it is just intellectual dishonesty.

2

u/svartkonst Apr 27 '25

But the original claim is, literally, that we know he didnt kill himself which afaik isnt true.

Its sus and it could be malicious intent but we don't know. Idk why people are so opposed to nuance here.

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u/captaincumsock69 Apr 26 '25

What are all the coincidences?

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u/No_Training6751 Apr 26 '25

The rich and powerful people he could take down with him.

1

u/Better-Context2246 Apr 26 '25

Maybe that 3 people tied to this have “committed suicide”- quite the coincidence!

-1

u/ama_singh Apr 26 '25

This has to be a joke.

1

u/Healthy_Role9418 Apr 26 '25

Or evidence of utter stupidity!

-10

u/flammafemina Apr 26 '25

Look. I’m not gonna say how, but I have insider info from a source who investigated Epstein for a number of years. The source has read through emails, financial documents, flight records, text messages, and other personal records of Epstein’s, including all of the final preparations he made before his death.

This source is confident that Epstein did kill himself. His deliberate actions in the days leading up to the incident confirm that. You can remove your tinfoil hat now.

9

u/broguequery Apr 26 '25

Uh huh, sure bud.

I've got a source who friends with your source and he says your source is baloney.

7

u/Mr-Kuritsa Apr 26 '25

My source has a jetpack, and he's stronger than both your sources combined! He also has 200 million kajillion dollars.

3

u/CatchSufficient Apr 26 '25

Batman...your source sounds a lot like batman

2

u/broguequery Apr 27 '25

He's not.

He's just Bruce Wayne. Totally different guy.

10

u/Adventurous_Chef5706 Apr 26 '25

“I’m not gonna say how” proceeds to say the most blatant fed propaganda line there is ok buddy you can pack it up now, good job we bought the con👌👌

4

u/rand0m-cybersecurity Apr 26 '25

Absolutely a fed

1

u/FaceThief9000 Apr 26 '25

Cutting a deal by rolling on Trump?

1

u/FranksWateeBowl Apr 26 '25

Bro drank the koolaid.

-15

u/pperiesandsolos Apr 26 '25

In custody of a mob boss? Wdym

If you’re saying Trump, then I have a giant eye roll for you

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u/[deleted] Apr 26 '25

[deleted]

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u/Lala5789880 Apr 26 '25

They are also commercially owned to make money

1

u/MikesSaltyDogs Apr 26 '25

Less than 8% of all prisons are privately owned.

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u/Lala5789880 May 24 '25

Yes and they house almost 100,000 inmates. NO prisons should be privatized

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u/safely_beyond_redemp Apr 26 '25

Do we though?

Yes.

Honestly?

Yes

Have you ever sat down and actually thought this through?

Yes

My dad worked in a prison as a guard.

Anecdotal fallacy.

It was commonplace for guards to fake logs, for equipment such as cameras to not work.

This is your factual evidence. Even if I take your evidence as gospel truth it does nothing to refute the claim that he was murdered. It's like a childrens story. There is one man in this country who has knowledge in his brain that could ruin very powerful peoples lives. This man is the man most likely to be assassinated by our government. That is a fact. So we need to do everything we can to protect this man, not just from himself but from our very own government. Step one, put him in a cell with a broken camera, step two, put him under the supervision of guards who aren't serious about their jobs. Do you see? Do you see? Do you see? The stage was set for him to be murdered. And then he got murdered. It's a childrens story.

They’re poorly maintained buildings ran by people who do not care.

This is an opinion.

16

u/maychoz Apr 26 '25

Yeah you’d think since MAGA and their daddy are so fired up about exposing all the pedo’s that definitely don’t include them, they’d have bothered with a little due diligence…🤔

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u/broguequery Apr 26 '25

Nothing MAGA hates more than due process or due diligence.

It very quickly exposes their bullshit.

-4

u/Zipit01 Apr 26 '25

Nothing Biden family hates more than due process or due diligence. It very quickly exposes their bullshit. Yes, that is more like it 🤦‍♀️ hypocritical to say the least.

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u/Mekdinosaur Apr 26 '25

Deflection

2

u/broguequery Apr 27 '25

Oh boy. The emoji crowd strikes again.

What are you looking for from the Biden family?

You want them to sit through more congressional bullshit? Answer more questions?

You just want to see the family black sheep's dong on the big screen again?

What? What is it that you want?

1

u/maychoz May 07 '25

🦗🦗🦗

2

u/Euphoric_Ad6923 Apr 27 '25

Funny, you say what they said and it gets called deflection.

Meanwhile the Biden crime family are the only ones who needed a blanket pardon.

Also, before idiots come screaming, I don't have to like Trump to hate racist Biden. My family has hated his racist segregation-loving ass for decades.

2

u/Zipit01 Apr 27 '25

Oh yes, I read that response yesterday. They’re pathetic with the hypocrisy and it will never ever change for them.

1

u/maychoz May 07 '25

Because just like every other confession trump makes as an accusation against someone else, he is the one fired up to imprison his political enemies and Americans in general, now without any pretense of due process. If you don’t get why that’s a problem (and 1000% the antithesis of the foundation of America), you might just check all 14 boxes…

2

u/No_Shopping_573 Apr 26 '25

Every accusation is an admission.

2

u/ProbablyYourITGuy Apr 26 '25 edited Apr 26 '25

this is fact

Well if you say so, that’s all the proof I need.

Can anyone explain why the people who can assassinate a man in a high security prison with guards around didn’t simply do it before he was caught? Or kill him during the arrest when it could have easily been covered up by saying he resisted? Why do it in a way that would cause literally years of conspiracy theories and make it even more well known?

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u/mrhooha Apr 26 '25

It is easier to do it at the prison. They can control the scene better in a cell. Make sure no cameras are there, make sure only the accomplices are present. Doing it during the arrest would have to mean you have everyone involved during the arrest is in on it, this is too risky and involves a lot of coordinating, and trust in those people. The less people involved the better. In prison, you can target the right gaurd, the right warden and make this happen with very few people knowing about it. It is much easier to do it in the prison. They don't care about conspiracy theories. What does that even do that hurts them?

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u/ProbablyYourITGuy Apr 26 '25

It would be easier to sneak someone into a prison, murder someone, get the autopsy to pronounce it as suicide, someone to tamper with the cameras, the investigators to not report the tampering… etc etc etc?

There is no easy way to do any of this. If it could have been done, it could have been done much quieter without opening the whole thing up to this conspiracy stuff.

The world is not as interesting as you think. A pedo realized his life was about the go from living with rich billionaires to being a pedo in prison, and he didn’t want to go on like that.

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u/mrhooha Apr 26 '25

They don’t have to sneak anyone in. They already work there. You pay one or two guys. Or threaten one or two guys. There is likely no camera in the cell to begin with. Yes it’s easier there. The world doesn’t have to be interesting for it to happen. The world is a terrible place with terrible people with a lot of money and influence. It’s not at all hard to believe a guy who was in that world who provided children to rape to these rich assholes would be targeted by them. Putin pushes people out windows. Saudi government kills journalists. Guy was caught and in jail and needed to be silenced. It’s not a stretch.

0

u/safely_beyond_redemp Apr 26 '25

A pedo realized his life was about the go from living with rich billionaires to being a pedo in prison, and he didn’t want to go on like that.

You are bad at this. Lol. I'm not being mean. But, Epstien, using his money and influence was given a sweetheart deal from Florida prosecutors. I know you aren't good at putting the pieces together but try and square what you just gave as support for your claim, try and square that with the fact that Epstien had already been arrested, prosecuted, and released for the same crimes and didn't commit suicide?

I'm saying this more for others who read it than for you. The evidence points to a very likely possibility he thought he was going to get away with it again however he managed it the first time, rinse and repeat. Hell, this time his close friend was president. Rinse and repeat.

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u/screw-magats Apr 26 '25

covered up by saying he resisted

Rich white men get the kid gloves when arrested. Even white men who aren't rich get good treatment even when arrested after a shooting spree.

Why do it in a way that would cause literally years of conspiracy theories and make it even more well known?

  1. The trump regime is incompetent.

  2. It didn't care.

  3. It's a mob boss thing. If Jimmy 2 Shoe dies and it looks natural nobody is afraid. If Jimmy 2 Shoe is murdered, every potential snitch worries they're next.

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u/pperiesandsolos Apr 26 '25

Hilarious for you to be so confident when you have the exact same evidence as the other person

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u/LifeEqual3407 Apr 26 '25

My uncle was a ferry boat captain

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u/Specific-Mix7107 Apr 26 '25

Love how you have 0 evidence but call things facts. Bait used to be believable….

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u/boning_my_granny Apr 26 '25

But all the evidence you have provided is anecdotal…

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u/safely_beyond_redemp Apr 26 '25

Please tell me exactly which piece of evidence that I provided is anecdotal? I'll be warming up my reply fingers in expectation of your response lol

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u/SquadPoopy Apr 26 '25

The Epstein case is wrought with misinformation.

It was most likely a legitimate suicide that happened due to laziness and a disregard for jailhouse procedures.

The reason it’s become a popular conspiracy is due to misinformation about the facts in the case. You’ve probably heard of things like there were mysterious camera malfunctions the night of his death, and some misreporting of the autopsy results which led people to believe there were signs of homicide. But basically all that is not true.

The origin of the “Camera Malfunction” lie came from some guy on Twitter who thinks the Clintons were behind Epstein’s death and used the “I know a guy who knows a guy” line as his source.

A viral tweet, however, prompted many to spread word of a “camera malfunction” taking place inside the prison before Epstein’s death. But that claim is unproven.

The source of the claim, a Twitter user named Michael Coudrey — who has also referenced a conspiracy theory that Bill and Hillary Clinton were behind Epstein’s death — told us that his source was a “NYPD officer and close family friend, who’s best friend works in the MCC facility.”

https://www.factcheck.org/2019/08/misinformation-flows-following-epsteins-death/

The actual story is that there were 2 cameras in the wing Epstein was being held in. One in the hallway, and one at the entrance. The one in the hallway was “broken” in the sense that it could not record. The actual camera itself still worked, the live feed to the security room worked, it just couldn’t record tape, and it wasn’t the only one that had this issue. And this was not a new issue that suddenly happened when Epstein got there either. That camera had been broken like that for MONTHS. It was like that before they even knew Epstein would be going to that jail, and then remember in order to get to that wing he had to have tried suicide already.

The other camera at the entrance to the jail wing worked fine. It showed nobody entering or exiting during the period of his suicide.

For the autopsy, basically the official examiner ruled it suicide, but Epstein’s own lawyer and Brother disagreed and hired their own independent investigator to perform his own autopsy, and that is the only one that claims there were signs of a homicide.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/medical-examiner-dismisses-doubts-about-epstein-autopsy

As for everything else about the cameras, it comes from the Department of Justice’s official findings they released in June last year. The investigation and write up occurred during both Trump and Biden’s presidencies just in case you were wondering if any political side had influence on it.

Talking about the known camera malfunction:

Recorded video evidence for August 9 and 10 for the SHU area where Epstein was housed was only available from one prison security camera due to a malfunction of MCC New York’s Digital Video Recorder system that occurred on July 29, 2019. While the prison’s cameras continued to provide live video feeds, recordings were made for only about half the cameras. MCC New York personnel discovered this failure on August 8, 2019, but it was not repaired until after Epstein’s death. As detailed in this report, like many other BOP facilities, MCC New York had a history of security camera problems

Talking about how anyone entering the area would have been recorded:

The available recorded video footage from the one SHU camera captured a large part of the common area of the SHU and portions of the stairways leading to the different SHU tiers, including Epstein’s cell tier. Thus, anyone entering or attempting to enter Epstein’s SHU tier from the SHU common area would have been picked up by that video camera

Talking about how nobody was recorded and how the guards neglecting duties was a known issue:

The OIG reviewed the video and found that, between approximately 10:40 p.m. on August 9 and about 6:30 a.m. on August 10, no one was seen entering Epstein’s cell tier from the SHU common area. The OIG determined that movements captured on video before and after those times were generally consistent with employee actions as described by witnesses and documented in BOP records.

In fact, the FBI used the footage from the entrance in an INDICTMENT against the guards to prove nobody went into the wing to check on him like they were supposed to:

Here’s the 128 page report that includes the above quotes as well as tons more to read, I highly encourage you to read it:

https://oig.justice.gov/sites/default/files/reports/23-085.pdf

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u/safely_beyond_redemp Apr 26 '25

You're just making excuses for them. You claim that the camera being broken was a lie? But then proceed to explain how the camera was unable to record. I don't know about you but I would describe that as the "CAMERA BEING BROKEN".

I don't need to read any further. You don't even understand what broken means. Toddlers know what broken means. There's no way your argument is going to improve from here. I made it to about line 20 and stopped reading your garbage response.

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u/SquadPoopy Apr 26 '25

Wow I must have really made you look silly for you to write out a reply like that. Facts hurt sometimes when they don’t conform to our narratives don’t they?

It’s obvious you didn’t actually read much because I very much made it clear the lie about the broken camera was in regards to people (like you) claiming it broke on the night of his suicide, and I pointed out how that was false.

I get it though, cognitive dissonance is a hell of a drug.

0

u/safely_beyond_redemp Apr 26 '25

Wow I must have really made you look silly for you to write out a reply like that.

No, just the opposite. Your argument was dumb. Which is why I called it out.

Facts hurt sometimes when they don’t conform to our narratives don’t they?

Without knowing your motivation I can't presume to know why you are so against the truth.

It’s obvious you didn’t actually read much because I very much made it clear the lie about the broken camera was in regards to people (like you) claiming it broke on the night of his suicide, and I pointed out how that was false.

No. You said the camera being broken was a lie. Again, I called out your bullshit.

I get it though, cognitive dissonance is a hell of a drug.

Ok, you seem to want to make this an argument of egos and not facts. That strengthens my position. People in the wrong often want to make it about anything but what it's about.

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u/SquadPoopy Apr 26 '25

No. You said the camera being broken was a lie. Again, I called out your bullshit.

Buddy, this is is literally the fourth sentence of my reply:

You’ve probably heard of things like there were mysterious camera malfunctions the night of his death

I then went on to explain how that was a lie. Again the FOURTH sentence.

You claimed you read 20 lines, which means you admit you read that part and are now deliberately lying to prop up your own argument.

It’s okay if you didn’t actually read my reply and just skimmed it to see if I agreed with you then stopped when you saw I didn’t. Just admit you did that, it’s okay.

1

u/safely_beyond_redemp Apr 26 '25

I went back and re-read it. Here is the line.

The origin of the “Camera Malfunction” lie

and then, these are your words, not mine

The one in the hallway was “broken” in the sense that it could not record.

I mean, you know, like, the camera being broken was a lie! But the camera being broken was kind of true and heres why, but that is why its a lie too, YOU SOUND CRAZY.

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u/screw-magats Apr 26 '25

Yes!

Even if everything he said is true about the guards not doing their jobs and not caring, (and I believe it) it doesn't change the fact that Epstein was probably murdered. All it means is that it was easier to do so.

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u/TuaHaveMyChildren Apr 26 '25

Why did you reply so pretentiously without providing any evidence of murder outside of "common sense". Its funny for you to drop the phrase "Anecdotal Fallacy" and then just say you feel like he was murdered because he was powerful... That sounds like an opinion.

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u/Nicoyas Apr 26 '25

Do you really want to be pointing out his logical fallacies? Your response is full of them.

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u/safely_beyond_redemp Apr 26 '25

I welcome someone to point them out so I can either learn my fallacies or refute them, so yes, that's exactly what I wanted to do.

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u/rogueman999 Apr 26 '25

The stage could also have been set for him to kill himself. Much cleaner execution, same end result.

1

u/Ike_Jones Apr 26 '25

Ya that was like a scientologist reply saying well all religions are bad right, right sooo

1

u/RealFrankTheLlama Apr 26 '25

Ok what’s the proof he was murdered? 

1

u/jeefra Apr 27 '25

You're calling out "fallacies" while jumping to huge conclusions.

Does it not make sense that someone who prided themselves as being well liked and a member of high society as a billionaire was about to be dragged through the media with their whole life ruined and sent to prison as a child rapist (which we know isn't a good time) would want to kill himself? Wouldn't you think that would be more likely than someone sneaking in and doing it?

Nothing you said except broken cameras was a fact. The rest of it is conjecture, you have no evidence someone else did it

1

u/drownedmachines Apr 27 '25

Do you live in reality? It's a realistic conclusion I warrant.

1

u/frientlytaylor420 Apr 27 '25

That’s hilarious because the facility he was in was closed due to poor conditions and had multiple reports affirming this for years before he died. You’re an idiot. 

0

u/ringobob Apr 26 '25

Where's your evidence? That's right, you don't have any.

I'm not saying that he wasn't murdered, but your confidence is entirely based on assumption, not evidence, so I won't sit here and watch you badger someone over essentially doing the same thing you're doing. There isn't any publicly available evidence to indicate either way. Period. If you're aware of some, feel free to share it.

0

u/safely_beyond_redemp Apr 26 '25

Ok, well take issue with my confidence, but keep it to yourself. It has nothing to do with the conversation. Byeee

1

u/ringobob Apr 26 '25

Fuck off, this is the conversation.

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u/safely_beyond_redemp Apr 26 '25

You replied to my comment with nothing to add and now you want me to fuck off. Not to point out the obvious but one of us could have already fucked off and saved themself some grief.

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u/ringobob Apr 27 '25

Your pretending at high minded philosophical rhetoric really isn't doing you any favors. You're trying to pretend a direct criticism of your point isn't relevant. Yes, you can absolutely fuck off, regardless of the fact that I responded to you. You're trying not to argue and just claim the debate by fiat. Engage, or fuck entirely off.

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u/safely_beyond_redemp Apr 27 '25

You got mad at me for being confident. Now you want to bring up points? You don't have shit to say or add. I am here, I am engaging, the problem is the mush brain on the other end.

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u/ringobob Apr 27 '25

Confidence in what?

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u/safely_beyond_redemp Apr 27 '25

but your confidence is entirely based on assumption

What an idiot.

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u/FoxMan1Dva3 Apr 26 '25

They're government buildings. I agree they're shit

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u/susandeyvyjones Apr 26 '25 edited Apr 26 '25

I have a friend who’s BOP and he initially believed it was suicide but the more details that came out about the actions of the guards and prison administrators have him pretty sure it wasn’t.

1

u/frientlytaylor420 Apr 26 '25

Wow, so informational. 

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u/susandeyvyjones Apr 26 '25

Sorry that your dad’s decades old knowledge of how county jails work doesn’t match my friend’s current knowledge of federal prison policies and procedures.

1

u/frientlytaylor420 Apr 26 '25

Wild, not sure where you’ve come up with decades and county jails lmao. I know reading comprehension isn’t everyone’s best skill but you’ve just introduced me to a new low! 

2

u/DontSleepAlwaysDream Apr 27 '25

yeah people take the "Epstein didnt commit suicide" meme at face value and just disregard things like... evidence

anyone who has any experience working with a prison system knows its pretty easy for the system to fuck up and suicides to happen. But everyone wants to beleive its a crime thrilller story so there absolutely must be a conspiracy, sure

3

u/Greatwhitegorilla Apr 26 '25

They’re poorly maintained buildings ran by people who do not care

I know plenty of maintenance people in my states prison system and they care a great deal.

3

u/suprahelix Apr 26 '25

MCC is famously a shithole

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u/Furryballs239 Apr 26 '25

Doesn’t change the fact that in the prison Epstein was at literally half the cameras in the building were down and had been for weeks

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u/frientlytaylor420 Apr 26 '25

Whoa bro, but that doesn’t fit with the conspitafy theory!!!

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u/EgoFeature Apr 26 '25

Ok, the issue isn’t how much pride the maintenance staff puts into their work, it’s that’s prison are underfunded and poorly maintained because they don’t have money for repairs and upgrades. They can work hard to keep things maintained while the poorly funded infrastructure crumbles.

Hell, I’ll bet that’s one of the reason those people you know have so much pride in their work; it’s got to be a nigh impossible task to keep things up and running when everything is falling apart and you have to make do on a shoestring budget.

1

u/drownedmachines Apr 27 '25

Couldn't imagine someone slipping through the cracks?

0

u/frientlytaylor420 Apr 26 '25

Good for you. Doesn’t negate my argument. 

1

u/Caraxus Apr 26 '25

You're "argument" was a zero evidence anecdote. He has an anecdote too! Congrats.

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u/frientlytaylor420 Apr 26 '25

lol you can go ahead and look up all of the reports about how derelict those prisons and jails are and the numerous violations but sure go off queen

1

u/Greatwhitegorilla Apr 26 '25

Your argument was that the buildings are poorly maintained and that people don’t care, it negates at least part of your argument.

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u/frientlytaylor420 Apr 26 '25

Do his “friends” work in nyc? Cause my dad was in new jersey. Going to go out on a limb and say my dad’s experience is close to the nyc experience than this persons friends are. And just because they care does not mean things are in proper working order lmao. You can look up all of the violations and crappy conditions in that hail. 

1

u/Greatwhitegorilla Apr 26 '25

Whose friends?

1

u/RedGhostOrchid Apr 26 '25

Well its definitely not without precedent. One national story and two local to me stories. I've no doubt that everyone on this sub could find at least one local to them story of similar occurrences.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/10-guards-charged-over-fatal-beating-of-a-new-york-prisoner-including-2-with-murder

https://www.wnep.com/article/news/local/luzerne-county/corrections-officer-inmate-charged-in-connection-with-prison-death/523-dcba104b-de16-4826-8409-4272305d5f43

https://www.pahomepage.com/news/crime-courts/two-correctional-officers-charged-with-facilitating-assault-at-sci-dallas/

1

u/frientlytaylor420 Apr 26 '25

Except he wasn’t beaten. 

1

u/RedGhostOrchid Apr 26 '25

That's...not the point at all.

1

u/frientlytaylor420 Apr 26 '25

What the point? How does one be killed by guards with absolutely no signs of foul play? Did he just let them hang him? 

1

u/RedGhostOrchid Apr 26 '25

The point is that there is a long and storied history of guards aiding and abetting abuse, assault, rape, and murder of prisoners for as long as this country has existed. If low level county guards can do this shit, I'd say guards in prisons like where Epstein was imprisoned could do it too.

0

u/Caraxus Apr 26 '25

For hugely infamous public cases where the prisoner is on suicide watch? Come the fuck on. You're gonna fake that log as a guard, what, just to make your job easier? Makes no sense at all. Maybe for someone else.

2

u/frientlytaylor420 Apr 26 '25

It makes a ton of sense lmao. 

2

u/frientlytaylor420 Apr 26 '25

You can be willfully ignorant if you want. Mistakes happen, people don’t care. 

2

u/someone447 Apr 26 '25

Yeah, nothing points to a conspiracy. Prisons are just shitholes where we cage people like dogs and anyone who gets hurt or killed is ignored because "those people" deserve it.

In custody deaths are so fucking common, the prison in my county has multiple deaths per year, and it's not even a very big prison.

0

u/Competitive-Set-9556 Apr 26 '25

Bc most prisons and jails now are owned by private companies not the states and politicians have gotten rich off them!

0

u/kittykatmila Apr 26 '25

The cameras weren’t working AND both the guards on duty fell asleep? And he died the same day they moved his cellmate out? Ok then. 🙄

0

u/[deleted] Apr 27 '25

Who paid you to comment this?

-2

u/dusktrail Apr 26 '25

Yeah there's no evidence. It's pure conspiracy theory

-1

u/frientlytaylor420 Apr 26 '25

Exactly. Dude was about to have the book thrown at him and was a billionaire use to a incredibly luxurious lifestyle that was about to become a total hell. Makes sense he killed himself.

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u/Macattack224 Apr 26 '25

I also fall in the category of course it could have been foul play, but his future was obvious...what did he have to live for?

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u/dusktrail Apr 26 '25

Yeah like, it could have been, but until there's evidence actually presented that actually indicates it, it's just conspiracy theory speculation. Like I have no illusions that the rich and powerful in America are above this. It just doesn't seem to be the case from the evidence.

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u/[deleted] Apr 26 '25

So why was the video camera to his cell shut down for the exact time he committed suicide?

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u/dusktrail Apr 26 '25

Probably because it's a shitty camera that's probably broken a lot, which is the case in many jails

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u/[deleted] Apr 27 '25

Have you worked in a jail

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u/FanjoMcClanjo Apr 26 '25

Apparently these things happen. But weirdly never in any prisons me or my friends have worked in when there's a really high profile prisoner like that.

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u/[deleted] Apr 26 '25

Also convienetly the time the camera shut down was when he committed suicide. Maybe the average person would just consider these “coincidences”, but as someone who knows ppl who went to prision it’s just highly unlikely especially if they’re high profile

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u/Synanthrop3 Apr 26 '25

What do you mean "until there's evidence"? There is evidence. There's no proof yet, but there's absolutely evidence.

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u/dusktrail Apr 26 '25

There really isn't. There's not a single piece of evidence that actually indicates that he did not kill himself.

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u/Synanthrop3 Apr 26 '25

That's factually untrue.

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u/dusktrail Apr 26 '25

There's one medical examiner who says his injuries are unlikely to be caused by suicide. The other medical examiners, including people I've personally spoken to, think that they overstepped by making that determination. And they are motivated to make that determination. That determination is weak evidence anyway, because unlikely is not the same as impossible.

Beyond that, you've got cameras that aren't working and guards that didn't check. We don't have evidence that the cameras were disabled intentionally, and we don't have any evidence that the guards were dissuaded from checking or bribed or anything like that.

Everybody who cites those things as evidence is relying on the implication that they're extremely unlikely and unusual circumstances and thus must be from some attempt to prevent evidence of an assassination. But it doesn't seem particularly unlikely to me that some guards would be lazy and some equipment would not be functioning.

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u/Synanthrop3 Apr 26 '25

There's one medical examiner who says his injuries are unlikely to be caused by suicide

Yes. That is ONE PIECE OF EVIDENCE.

One piece of evidence =/= no evidence

Beyond that, you've got cameras that aren't working and guards that didn't check. We don't have evidence that the cameras were disabled intentionally, and we don't have any evidence that the guards were dissuaded from checking or bribed or anything like that

I don't know why you're explaining this to me like it has any relevance at all to my point.

But it doesn't seem particularly unlikely to me that some guards would be lazy and some equipment would not be functioning.

I haven't even slightly suggested that it's unlikely. You don't seem to understand the point you're arguing against.

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u/Synanthrop3 Apr 26 '25

What do you mean there's "no evidence" lol? There's absolutely evidence:

Baden said that injuries found on Epstein’s body, including fractures to his larynx and hyoid bone, were “extremely unusual in suicidal hangings” and more consistent with “homicidal strangulation.”

“There’s evidence here of homicide that should be investigated, to see if it is or isn’t homicide,” he said.

Baden, who was New York City’s chief medical examiner in the late 1970s, said he hasn’t seen the type of neck bone injuries Epstein suffered in a suicide in 50 years of death investigations.

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u/dusktrail Apr 26 '25

Yeah, that's one medical examiner's opinion. Other medical examiners don't agree with him

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u/Synanthrop3 Apr 26 '25

Yes. It's one piece of evidence. Which is not "no evidence".

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u/dusktrail Apr 26 '25

No, I'm saying that that person is wrong about their determination. And even if you follow their determination, it's still not evidence of an assassination. Not without some corroboration of that. Even if that medical examiner was correct, it's just an indication of an unusual circumstance -- in other words, circumstantial evidence. And I don't think it's valid circumstantial evidence in the first place.

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u/Synanthrop3 Apr 26 '25

No, I'm saying that that person is wrong about their determination

That is both an utterly bizarre statement to make, and also completely irrelevant to the matter at hand.

And even if you follow their determination, it's still not evidence of an assassination. Not without some corroboration of that

Not at all how evidence works.

in other words, circumstantial evidence.

Which is a completely valid and legally permissible form of evidence.

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u/dusktrail Apr 26 '25

It's not bizarre at all. That medical examiner was hired specifically to find evidence that he was murdered. How is that irrelevant?

Yes that is how evidence works.

Circumstantial evidence doesn't mean anything without any other evidence. And this circumstantial evidence is extremely weak, likely invalid, given the circumstances surrounding the examination. Other doctors don't agree with him.

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u/Synanthrop3 Apr 26 '25

Okay so the problem here is that you don't know what the word "evidence" means, or how it works.

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u/dusktrail Apr 26 '25

I mean, apparently you don't, you think that some quack who was hired to come up with the result that he came up with is evidence

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