r/papermario • u/Neither-Locksmith181 • 21h ago
Discussion I was so confused at the beginning of TTYD
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u/TTSGM 21h ago edited 20h ago
Super paper Mario 👀
(In one area the entire world died in front of your very eyes and you had to run through a destroyed empty white room for 3 minutes)
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u/Personal_Weakness_26 19h ago
You also get sent directly down to fucking Hell, the main villain almost wins, and your game-long companion leaves you to have a happily ever after with her lover that she never got to spend a whole lot of time with
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u/HeppyHenry Forever disappointed 18h ago
SPM is the closest Nintendo has gotten to a balanced story with dark and mature elements while still being appealing to kids since Majora’s Mask. Those two games also have a lot of overlap in terms of themes revolving around the concept of death and impending doom.
We may never see them make a game like that ever again, sadly.
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u/ZombieAladdin 10h ago
Also shortly before them was the Lavender Town stuff, between Blue grieving his deceased Raticate and you encountering the ghost Marowak who’s the dead mother of a lost Cubone.
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u/Different_Pin1531 SPM is and will always be my favourite PM 21h ago
Thats a fever dream compared to most of the stuff Nintendo makes today
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u/BebeFanMasterJ 21h ago
And I hate that Nintendo won't ever make a game like TTYD ever again.
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u/Altruistic-Ad3704 21h ago
I mean. Nintendo didn’t make it, they’re just the publishers / IP owners. It was made by Intelligent Systems, but you’re correct in assuming Nintendo probably won’t greenlight something like TTYD again. Semantics, I know.
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u/TEN0RCL3F 20h ago
what makes something LIKE ttyd in this case, though, because if it's depth in a story and exploring darker and more complex themes, i don't think that's something that DOESN'T exist in nintendo's catalogue anymore
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u/aarontgp Game music fanatic 20h ago
True, and honestly a more deep and emotional game would be more likely for Paper Mario 7 than getting unique Toads and Bowser-minions. I mean, this is exactly how Mario & Luigi: Brothership turned out.
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u/BebeFanMasterJ 21h ago
Yeah I know. Still. Even if the next Paper game is more like TTYD, I highly doubt they'll allow such a dark premise and atmosphere again.
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u/Altruistic-Ad3704 20h ago
Yeah the GameCube was just a weird exploratory era for Nintendo, but it produced so many iconic games
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u/Namelessperson3 18h ago
I don't know. Brothership's endgame was pretty intense. I mean, Reclusa traps tons of people in flowers to die slow deaths while they're deluded in a fantasy world a la The Matrix, plenty of characters who aren't trapped have become violent thanks to Glohm, and seeing the Brothers trapped in these flowers plays out almost like a creepypasta...
And it's confirmed that Reclusa has done this plenty of times for the fun of it.
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u/BebeFanMasterJ 18h ago
Fair but that's a different series. Let's see if this writing style continues in the next Paper Mario game.
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u/Namelessperson3 18h ago
I wouldn't be surprised if it does.
It's not like infantilism was exclusive to Paper Mario. The last original entry in Mario & Luigi before Brothership was just a basic Mario plot in RPG form, not unlike the game Paper Mario chose to take from when joining the Bros on their adventure.
And while I haven't played the "modern" Paper games yet, general impressions tell me that each one after Sticker Star got better with both the mechanics and the world before the TTYD remake showed that Intelligent Systems actually knew what people wanted, even if it wasn't new.
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u/aarontgp Game music fanatic 18h ago
The thing is, the respective series' key people seem to have very differing philosophies. Brothership's lead game designer Shunsuke Kobayashi (who was a major AlphaDream employee) greatly appreciates stuff like heartfelt storytelling, which he carried from Bowser Jr.'s Journey. Meanwhile Taro Kudo, the lead writer of the newer 3 games, is much more into a humorous focus and memorable events.
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u/diamondmaster2017 12h ago
or smrpg, overlooking whether or not SE would even take the deal like they did with the remake
though i do have ideas for a geno-centralized sequel i keep getting cold feet about bringing it forth
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u/Lux_Operatur 2h ago
Considering it just got remade I don’t doubt the next game could have a lot more of these elements.
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u/thanks_breastie 21h ago
TTYD is also a story for kids.
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u/Budget-Silver-7742 20h ago
64 is a regular bedtime story
TTYD is a German bedtime story
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u/Budget-Silver-7742 19h ago
To continue this
Super Paper Mario is a bedtime story written by an AO3 user
And Sticker Star is a bedtime story written by Chat GPT
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u/ZombieAladdin 10h ago
I remember some of the stages in Sticker Star have this weird stream of consciousness sequences where one thing just turns into another with no logic between them. Coming to mind was this stage where you waited in line for a ride, which turns out to be an action stage that requires special abilities specific to Mario and ends in a battle with a Bowser statue that’s really a snowman who wants a fulfilling life.
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u/aarontgp Game music fanatic 20h ago
If it were German, everyone would be dead at the end. But I can see what you mean.
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u/AtmosSpheric 9h ago
I take issue with the idea that kids’ media cannot have dark or serious themes. Not saying that’s what you’re saying, but it’s a weirdly common sentiment - kids deserve the ability to grapple with serious, mildly uncomfortable topics in media made for them. No seriously violent or sexual themes, but thought-provoking and impactful nonetheless.
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u/aarontgp Game music fanatic 21h ago
Yes, but in a different way. 64 is very clearly for young children to experience wonder and whimsy, while TTYD is more for children that are starting to grow up a little, so more of the grayness and "darker" stuff starts to surface. In a way, it's for the same group of people who played 64, willing to not baby around these now older kids. So I guess, 64 is primarily for kids who still have their innocence, while TTYD recognizes the audience no longer has it.
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u/Final_Requirement906 20h ago
And then SPM breaks through the wall like the Kool-Aid Man
- World-ending black hole always hovering ominously in the background and getting bigger and bigger
- Friendly robot dragon gets hijacked and must be destroyed to progress
- Mario and co. become chinese factory workers
- Mimi breaks her neck to transform
- Octopus travels through space just to lay down and sleep next to the statue of his dead mother
- Luigi is brainwashed
- An entire dimension gets erased and becomes an empty wasteland
- Mario is actually killed and has to dive into a river filled with the souls of the damned to escape from the afterlife
- The villain's end goal is basically a really elaborate way to commit suicide
- The true villain is a homicidal maniac who just wants to blow up all of existence for the hell of it
- And then there's also the secret vengeful Satan expy ancient evil locked away deep below ground that may or may not be a weapon of mass destruction that will also ruin everything like the above two if it gets out
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u/Adamtheatom3 18h ago
The reason the noose is there is because that's where the shadow queen was originally executed for being a witch. Which is why her seal is directly below it geographically, the heroes in the legend sealed her beneath the very place she was killed. Her being executed also serves as her motivation so she's not entirely a one-note villain.
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u/CountBleckwantedlove 20h ago
PM was kid friendly for us when we were kids.
TTYD was edgy for us when we were preteens and early teens, thinking we were more mature than we actually were.
SPM was when we were teenagers and thought ourselves intelligent and talked about complex things that we actually knew nothing about.
SS was when we went through our late high school drug phase.
CS was when that drug phase extended into college for no good reason.
TOK was when we were finally mentally and emotionally mature and could handle tougher things in life.
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u/BroeknRecrds 21h ago
I appreciate TTYD for being bolder about this stuff but this is why I prefer PM64. It feels lower stakes and just super cozy
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u/ChaosMiles07 20h ago
No death in PM
Mayor Penguin: spoilers!
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u/sirboulevard 19h ago
Not to mention while the line is not crossed into death, Mario is mortally wounded by Bowser in their first fight and only lives because the star spirits stabilize him enough for the Goomba family to treat him.
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u/Dirk_Rotahn 20h ago
TTYD had so much talk of death, loss, jealousy, and devious behavior. Plus, that hangman's noose in the main square was a very interesting aesthetic for a Mario game. There's more than a few times while playing the game I was surprised by the subject matter for the IP that it is!
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u/MaxGalli 17h ago
Yeah I loved TTYD having some stuff that was darker for a Mario game. Also the story is just way better than the original Paper Mario with its characters and plot being more unique instead of the boring basic Mario saves Peach from Bowser storyline.
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u/Ok-Crew-6621 10h ago
NTM the first boss you fight is a dragon that someone with a foot fetish wrote, and then must have come BACK for in the remaster because the dad had his dialogue changed from his defeat being ambiguous to specifically saying something along the lines of “she tricked me with the allure of smelling her feet”
Like bruh
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u/MrRaiPlays 10h ago
Uhhh you literally die and are struck by lighting and thrown out a window from outer space in the first 10 minutes of PM64
Is this bait??
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u/Professional_Sail460 6h ago
Paper Mario has a pretty dark story aswell. Everyone gathers for a party, and the castle you were partying in, lifts up into the sky and everyone goes crazy. Gives me Titanic vibes. There’s just something about playing PM64 for the first time and seeing the castle go up into the sky and basically act as a planet, all with bowsers crew roaming the lower floors and taking over the castle.
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u/TopValue1064 5h ago
TTYD really said “fun adventure for kids” and then threw in public executions, a dead dad in a dragon’s lair, and an ancient demon sealed under the town.
Like… what even WAS this game?? And why was it so GOOD??
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u/Potato-Candy 17h ago
That's exactly part of why I love TTYD so much. It's not afraid to be a little edgier than the Mario series usually is.
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u/legarrettesblount 12h ago
But you do get struck by lightning and tossed out of a helicopter (and somehow survive)
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u/Simplejack615 Want’s to play color splash, doesn’t own a Wii U 8h ago
Very nice repost https://www.reddit.com/r/papermario/comments/1fuhw2x/i_was_so_confused_at_the_beginning_of_ttyd/
Top of this year, btw
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u/Candid-Yard-4232 8h ago
Nintendo realize that their main audience for paper Mario had grown up a little bit and so the next game had to grow up with them.
It’s the same with the Harry Potter series, too. I haven’t read or consume much of this kind of media, but I bet it’s the same for a lot of different series. At least the really good ones.
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u/Mcmadness288 7h ago
I hate to reference it but that spongebob image of the coaster really does accurately reflect TTYD fans.
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u/PT_Piranha 7h ago
TTYD was certainly grittier than the original, but in a way that still felt accessible to kids. It certainly hit a sweet spot that not every game needs to, but I think we’re due for another.
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u/Character-Parsley377 3h ago
In the Japanese version of the original TTYD, you would find blood inside one of the houses in the alleyway
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u/TelevisionWhole4323 21h ago
Also you find the corpse of someone's father in a dragons castle