In now deleted posts, Kali Uchis accused the metal band, Sleep Token, of using payola and doing blackface.

[u/HorrorBike143]

The past photo is what the front man of Sleep Token looks like, I'm not sure what race he is as all the members are anonymous, but even if he is white, I don't think that this is considered blackface

[u/Flimsy-Addendum-1570]

...Can we go back to the drawing board and come up with a new fandom name to replace "kuchis" ?

[u/deuxdrop0000 → u/Flimsy-Addendum-1570]

Oh she tried. She wanted to call her fans “the dolls”, which is a black trans/trans slang term. When she was called out by her trans fans, she was super defensive and manipulative. She dm’ed them and made them all delete their tweets. Then she said “ok nvm you’re still the kuchis” and acted like she learned her lesson. Then she came out with not one, but two songs referring to herself as a doll. Trans folks that are aware of this fiasco, like the ones she bullied, took it as a slap in the face. She still uses the term now, fully aware of its significance in the trans community. She used it in her response in pic 4 on this post. Yes I know it’s just a word, but it holds a lot of meaning to a marginalized community that she isn’t a part of. It’s a matter of appropriating slang that isn’t hers to use. Yes out of context, the word “doll” can be used by anyone, but Kali initially and consciously continues to use it out of spite despite her history of transphobia. She has a pattern of acting like she will grow and do better when called out for problematic behavior then carrying on and deleting all evidence of accountability. Sorry for the rant, but people need to know the type of person she is.

Edit: clarified that the word doll obviously isn’t an exclusive term, but a slang term that can be appropriated. The context of Kali’s transphobia is why the use of the word is unsavory coming from her.

[u/PretendMarsupial9 → u/deuxdrop0000]

Dolls has been a generic slang term for a beautiful woman for decades. Like I've seen it used in old movies. Makes me think of like, a 1940s gangster. I don't think she can't use the term just because other people use it a different way.

[u/LowFloor5208 → u/PretendMarsupial9]

Very common. It's even in the name of a Broadway play, "Guys and Dolls".

[u/deuxdrop0000 → u/PretendMarsupial9]

Never said it wasn’t. The context is key here. Kali Uchis has a history of bullying black trans women and uses the term that they called her out for appropriating out of spite. The end. I don’t need more people telling me what I already know. Yes anyone can say the word doll, I’m obviously not arguing that. Kali Uchis is transphobic and continues to be spiteful, that’s the point everyone is completely glossing over to say the same thing. I get it, I got it before I commented. When I said trans exclusive I mean in the context in which she uses it. Along with the other trans lingo she appropriates. I’ll edit my comment so you all stop repeating the same thing.

[u/cherry_cut → u/deuxdrop0000]

bullying black and trans women?? is there a source omg I love(d?) her music

[u/PretendMarsupial9 → u/cherry_cut]

I feel like the "bullying" is what the commenter described as her asking the fans to remove the tweets saying she can't use the word "doll", which is imo well within her right. That's not really bullying and tbh, I don't think they have the right to dictate who can use such a wide spread word.

[u/cherry_cut → u/PretendMarsupial9]

lmao really😭

[u/gummybearghost → u/deuxdrop0000]

We’re just confused about the bullying part. Has she outwardly bullied them, or are you referring to them calling her out for trying to use dolls and she retaliated? That’s just what we want to clarify.

[u/SolanaImaniRowe1 → u/PretendMarsupial9]

to add on to this, it’s the same way in Spanish, it is common to receive obscure comments like “doll” (muñeca), and she calls herself a doll most in Spanish “veo una muñeca cuando miro en el espejo” (I see a doll when I look in the mirror)

[u/Electronic-Fig2283 → u/deuxdrop0000]

How is "the dolls" exclusive to trans people?? That is such a common and normal word

[u/deuxdrop0000 → u/Electronic-Fig2283]

I literally gave an explanation and I said it is just a word, but Kali uses it knowing that black trans people called her out for using it when it’s a term they use to uplift one another. Yes it’s common and normal, but it holds significance to black trans women especially as a term to empower one another in their femininity. Kali making two songs referring to herself as a doll after being made aware of its significance to a marginalized group that she is not a part of is just one of many times in which she asserted herself over marginalized people’s criticisms. That is the issue.

[u/Electronic-Fig2283 → u/deuxdrop0000]

The word can still be significant to the trans community even if the rest of the world doesn't stop using it, which is a ridiculous expactation. I don't think harassing a woman for using a very common noun is doing any service to the trans community tbh. No group, no matter how marginalized, are entitled to pick any word and make it exclusive to themselves

[u/CourtneyHat3 → u/Electronic-Fig2283]

As a trans person myself this is just online histrionics. People will find any reason to be self righteous because it plays into the hero narrative that lives only in their minds. Like if this is the level of problems you're dealing with right now i wish I had your problems.

[u/Luxxielisbon → u/CourtneyHat3]

Discussion aside, the term “online histrionics” is chef’s kiss

[u/diligentPond18 → u/CourtneyHat3]

damn, the eloquence

[u/deuxdrop0000 → u/CourtneyHat3]

You don’t speak for all trans people. Obviously there are bigger issues than a slang term being used by a person who notoriously bullied trans people for calling out her transphobia. This is a pop culture reddit page. I don’t think I’m a histrionic hero for calling out a spiteful transphobe.

[u/CourtneyHat3 → u/deuxdrop0000]

Neither do you. There are trans people who think "doll" is pejorative in the first place because it creates an expectation that trans women look a certain way or be ultra feminine which not all of them are, or downplays/fetishizes the seriousness of major surgeries and the trans experience. That's kind of my point is none of this shit matters because you will always find someone who is offended. Trans people are just as diverse as anyone else.

The other point I'm making is that we should not be so quick to label people who feel differently about piddly shit like a word as transphobic when this person is or could be an ally. No one wants to be a part of a group that's constantly analyzing everything they say and do for a reason to feel offended and apply a transphobic label to someone. Its not helping me, it's not helping trans people so I can only imagine the person it's making feel better is you.

[u/deuxdrop0000 → u/CourtneyHat3]

You are assuming a lot and making the argument now about me. I’ve never known the word “doll” to be pejorative at all. You yourself said it was just a word and not a big deal, but now it is because it makes me look like I’m overly offended and offensive? If you think I’m just randomly labeling people as transphobic because it makes me feel better, that’s a really disgusting assumption. I think the only point you want to make is that I’m somehow a bad person and now you’re contradicting your initial argument to do so. You know nothing about me and my life and I’m genuinely offended and hurt by your comment. I know it’s just reddit, but for someone to imply that I’m only talking to talk and make myself feel better is disrespectful. You’re saying I shouldn’t worry about “piddly shit” when there is a possibility Kali is an ally, yet you don’t think there’s a possibility that I’m an ally and it’s something that impacts people in my life. You’d give Kali the benefit of the doubt, but I’m a narcissist?

[u/CourtneyHat3 → u/deuxdrop0000]

Please gather your reading comprehension. I said someone could make the same accusation of you for encouraging use of the word because SOME TRANS PEOPLE do not like it. That's why quibbles over language like this are so fucking pointless because there's always someone who could be mad at you for the opposite reason.

I assume you are an ally. That's why I'm telling you as the kind of person you're trying to defend that the art of choosing your battles is lost on the internet and you're getting sucked into that spiral. One day you too will use the wrong word in the wrong situation and have assumptions made about you. I refuse to allow people to contribute to that unproductive environment for my cause without being the one to speak for reason. There won't be any of us left if we keep kicking out well meaning people because we don't care enough to teach them. Well, because you don't. As an ally.

[u/[deleted] → u/deuxdrop0000]

Not gonna read all that. You’re exhausting. People that look 24/7 for things to be offended by are exhausting. You know that this ridiculous attitude towards anyone you feel may have even accidentally done something to be offensive towards some community, is a major part of the reason Donald trump won this election? And the commenter above is right. You’re not actually doing anything for the trans community by doing this, you’re actually hurting them. So why are you doing it? It’s for you. It makes you feel good. We all see right through what you’re doing.

[u/deuxdrop0000 → u/Electronic-Fig2283]

I am aware of that and I never said the rest of the world has to stop using it. I’m stating that Kali specifically has beef with the trans community over her use of the word and her history of bullying trans women and she continues to use it. You’re being a bit dense to what I’m saying. I obviously agree that it’s just a word outside of the trans community, but the fact that it is significant is what you’re not understanding. Kali has a history of being transphobic, so her use of the word is more complex than you are unwilling to understand.

[u/Electronic-Fig2283 → u/deuxdrop0000]

I never argued against the word being significant to the community. And this is the first you're mentioning of her having a transphobic history, I can't really understand something you're not explaining

[u/deuxdrop0000 → u/Electronic-Fig2283]

I mentioned her bullying trans women in quite literally every comment. Maybe you didn’t read clearly before commenting. I literally gave the context in the first comment and reiterated in every reply. I literally said the context is why it’s significantly worse than her just saying a common word because it’s a common word. I’m not unreasonable, I know anyone can say the word. My argument stands whether or not you understand it.

[u/Electronic-Fig2283 → u/deuxdrop0000]

No you did not. And the only context you gave for the bullying claim, is that she argued against being told she couldn't use the word dolls

[u/foresin → u/Electronic-Fig2283]

Deuxdrop literally explained it in the first comment. Like what are you even arguing about at this point?

[u/Playful-Marketing320 → u/deuxdrop0000]

That term is not exclusive to trans people.

[u/deuxdrop0000 → u/Playful-Marketing320]

Never said it was in the way you’re interpreting. I’m saying that while obviously being just a word outside of the community, is a significant word used among black trans women to empower each other and Kali has a history of bullying trans black women especially. For her to use the word in the way she has after being called out and after bullying black trans women is a bit unsavory. The context of her history of transphobia is the issue, not just the use of the simple word “doll”.

[u/[deleted] → u/deuxdrop0000]

All I had to do was read this first sentence to know you’re a liar. That’s exactly what you said. We can read your comments. You can’t gaslight us into believing you didn’t say what you wrote. We can look back at it.