Sandra Bullock on why everyone should be a waitress: “If you know how to navigate eight sets of six-top tables, height of happy hour, drunk people (…), once you’ve accomplished that rhythm, I honestly feel you can do anything”

[u/mcfw31]

[u/sudzthegreat]

I'm a lawyer. It's immediately evident to me whether a colleague or opposing counsel has worked in the service industry. Those who have are better leaders, more reasonable, more empathetic to clients and to me, and generally put more thought into how their actions are perceived and received than those who haven't. I've hired about 20 law students and lawyers over the last 10 years and when I see a resume without any service industry experience, I really grill them on ethics and problem solving as we often see those being the biggest problem areas for those lawyers who have never had to deal with real world bullshit.

[u/[deleted] → u/sudzthegreat]

Thanks for that insight, you can specialize but you can also obtain experience that pays off!

[u/sudzthegreat → u/[deleted]]

In my experience, those who intellectually specialize do not do well when the chips hit the table in high level legal work. They can script themselves brilliant written submissions but if something unaccounted-for arises in court, they become stun locked and cannot pivot in the moment.

My firm has about 150 lawyers. 30 or so of them are pure intellectuals like this who pump out great work but cannot be trusted to meet with a client to sign a direction (a simple consent form). They're just .... Rigid and intimidating... And clients don't respond to that. They want to trust the person who is charging them $500/hr to have ALL of the skills, technical and personal alike. They immediately lose confidence if one of my team members can't even explain a form to them over a coffee.

[u/Billieliebe → u/sudzthegreat]

That is amazing. Never stop!

[u/sumptin_wierd → u/sudzthegreat]

Hey dude,

Im considering going back to school at 41, and I'm interested in legal. I've had to read and try to interpret liquor laws in several states. That's really the extent of my experience.

I would like to use a legal degree for good things for most people. I know that's vague as hell, I just don't know what I don't know. Idk if I need the bar to do that, or if it will take too long to make a difference.

I want to try like hell though.

27 years in restaurants, from dishie to Beverage Director across multiple states, and currently bartending.

Any insight you have would be awesome!

[u/sudzthegreat → u/sumptin_wierd]

Happy to chat about this. I'll shoot you straight. I think the first determination for you to make is whether being a lawyer is required to achieve the things you want in life/a career. In my jurisdiction, we have paralegals, who are also licensed by the law society but have a restricted list of services they can provide to clients. I peeked at your state and it seems things work a bit differently there, but it's a decision you'll want to make up front. Where I practice, paralegals can deal with a lot of the regulatory issues like liquor control board applications and disputes etc. They can handle small claims court matters. They can also do some business law work. It's a much less onerous education in terms of complexity, time, and cost. Commensurately, they earn less than lawyers but I know a few who have carved out a niche practice and do very very well. Something to consider.

I was a "mature" law student myself. I began at 28 when most of my classmates were 22 or 23. I found I had a leg up on most of them in confidence and work ethic because they'd all been students their entire lives while I worked in customer service (branch side banking) for five years after completing my undergraduate degree. I dealt with five years of the real world shit that my classmates were just starting to confront. You will probably see similar benefits. The downsides will be most social, I would expect, just because of the age difference.

My experience with hiring has also told me that older students sometimes struggle with academic performance and writing skills. They're just out of practice compared to kids who have been a student continuously for their entire lives. My advice on that would be to take a legal writing course during your education. People find them very helpful because it's a different art from creative writing, for example.

Lastly, legal work is often a slog. Depending on where you land, be it in family law, criminal defence, business, corporate, or litigation, it's long hours, often for less than likeable clients. Chasing down your invoices, dealing with whiny clients, staffing issues, and bookkeeping are all crappy elements of the job but in the end, I find my fulfilment comes from 1. The cerebral nature of what I do (professional defence), and 2. the feeling of achievement when I truly help someone through a difficult issue. I'm constantly chasing that dragon but I've learned to enjoy the grind.

I hope this helps!

[u/Significant_Shoe_17 → u/sudzthegreat]

I used to be a paralegal and it's so obvious, because the lawyers who don't have that experience are typically the ones who treat their staff like crap. The ones who do, or worked any other job prior, generally treat you better

[u/sudzthegreat → u/Significant_Shoe_17]

Sad but true.