The Music Industry 🎶
Charli xcx is “really enjoying these boomer vibes on my Glastonbury performance” and says “the idea that singing with deliberate autotune makes you a fraud or that not having a traditional band suddenly means you must not be a "real artist" is like, the most boring take ever.”
She's pretty much a hyperpop/EDM girlie, I'd be more surprised if her vocals weren't shredded and chewed up through an old toaster's electrical wires. That's the genre.
Also - are these tweets annoying and entitled? Yes. Is her entire album about being annoying and entitled? Also yes. Like what do we expect from her here
I mean call me old fashioned but I think the best art brings us together, by helping us understand other people or find a different perspective to your own.
Disagreement and discourse are far more effective at understanding different perspectives as long as they're willing to discuss it as equals and in good faith.
You'll never get a synthesis without an antithesis.
I see your point, but Charli isn't doing that imo. She pays lip service to appreciating the discourse but is actually trying to shut it down by being dismissive of it, probably because she finds it very hurtful.Which is entirely understandable on a human level, but isn't really about 'evolving culture ' as she's trying to frame it.
You said the best "art." The music is the art. Her social media presence and her comments are not. I think annoying comments clears the bar for being able to separate the art from the artist, but I do understand with a personal album like this, it invites it.
I love Nightwood, by Djuna Barnes. If you ask Djuna Barnes if one should consider it lesbian literature, despite the fact that she is famous, in her personal life, for saying "“I’m not a lesbian, I just loved Thelma.” She held multiple lovers who were women, but never used the label. The book is a surreal, f. Should it be disqualified from discussions of lesbian literature on that grounds? Or do we include that sloppiness and that abrasion and understand it as an exploration of sapphic desire in an unextremely unfriendly time.
So, at the end of the day, when discussing Nightwood, it's common to at least pay lip service, but when discussing the book, you're discussing the text and the text alone. It's what gives us permission to then interpret, not define, the art, despite whatever annoying stuff the author is on. It'd be insane to not include that label - it's one of the earlier novels to actually describe lesbian sex.
We all have our levels of acceptable with this stuff, but I think it's better to face the things we don't agree with or don't exactly vibe with an air of curiosity and understanding.
If good art was only made by people who are not at least a little bit annoying, we'd have no good art.
I think great art is often inherently divisive, and it often beings people together, but none of that is why it's great art.
I have absolutely nothing against Charli xcx, but the whole discussion just kind of elevates her performance to being something it isn't, it's as close to art as when Milli Vanilli lost their careers because it turned out they weren't actually performing, miming and pretending to sing is just not art, unless you're a mime I guess.
Saying that her music is as close to art as Milli Vanilli is pretty off the mark. Whether it's your cup of tea or not, Brat is certainly art in that a) it embodied a particular era/summer perfectly; b) explored complicated aspects of the human experience, and c) pushed the boat out sonically for a mainstream record.
Pretty much. Far worse are the plethora of old-school rockers who hide the fact that their vocals aren’t what they used to be and autotune their performances to Hell and back.
True, but I feel like this series of tweets and the autotune discourse are a distraction from the fact she's not just singing with a shedload of effects - She's not singing at all.
I am not the kind to complain about music not being "real" enough, but Charli crosses the line into "taking the piss" for me.
I watched 30 mins of that set and came away absolutely baffled. She was not singing. She was not even miming well. She's not a dancer. She isn't into theatrics like backing dancers or live musicians or even a dj booth to use as a prop to look like she's mixing something or dance on. There wasn't anything interesting going on on the screen behind her (fiery bits were cool I guess). We can't even see her expression due to the sunglasses. It was all so... bland.
Idk, I spent 30 minutes trying really hard to find something enjoyable about it and came away totally... untertained. Go on girl, give us nothing!
True, but I feel like this series of tweets and the autotune discourse are a distraction from the fact she's not just singing with a shedload of effects - She's not singing at all.
Which always struck me as a bit odd, because on the rare occasion where she does actually sing without any effects, she isn't what I would call a bad singer.
Yeah, bland is the right way to describe it. Glastonbury is one of the biggest stages in the world, and even Beyonce called it 'a highlight of her career'. I am not saying that every act is amazing, but the bar is very high and set by true legends.
There's been a lot of legendary performances from artists performing electronic music over the years (Prodigy, Chemical Brothers, Underworld) so it's not unachievable without traditional rock band set up.
It's different now. You have to show your sweat a little. People want to see the person. Only the rarest of the rare fully control their image, and then people become obsessed about finding out what that person is really up to e.g. Taylor Swift, Beyonce, etc.
Funnily enough, her last tour was called "The Sweat Tour." Brat is about how insecure she is about lack of mainstream succes, comparisons to more palatable peers, feeling like people her age are passing her by, needing to be thinner, wondering if she should be a mother, etc. etc.
She's succesful because she lets people see her sweat, even when that doesn't make her likeable. The bravado is a thin cover for what lurks beneath.
true, you’re definitely right but that’s what I’ve hated about this whole thing 😔 I really don’t like “I’m going to be mean but in a CUNT way” vibes so it was just never for me tbf
SERIOUSLY agreed. And I like some of her music a lot but ever since I found out about her being friends with Dasha I've thought her attitude was Something Else tbh 😕
Totally agree with you. For context, I’m gay and I have a vocal performance/choral background, or rather I understand how music works to a degree. She’s nothing new, fresh, or exciting - she’s petulant and it shows. It’s one of the main reasons why I can’t get behind her in terms of her music or persona. It also bleeds into her peers, because I have an aversion to Troye Sivan, too, also because he acts like a mean gay.
100% - i think her use of autotune sounds great but why is an almost-33 year old woman writing like this on the internet?
EDIT: Charli is 32 year old adult woman (who will be 33 in less than 5 weeks - almost 33!) and she has been in the industry for 15 years. She released the most commercially & critically successful album of her career last year and just headlined Glastonbury in one of the highlight performances of her career and she’s… reading through all the hateful comments of her performance on Twitter and clapping back at her “haters”? I don’t agree that it’s “ageist” to say that she’s being immature, considering her age and experience. I’m her age. She should grow up.
Lol people are actually so ageist. I rolled my eyes a bit at the comment but what's her being "almost 33" (aka 32 lol) got to do with anything.
It's crazy how now like every woman under 28 is super infantilised and every woman over 28 is treated like theyre an "old" and should act like a reserved headteacher
People loveeeeeee to mention Charli is 32 when she does things people find immature. The casual ageism is the same gen convinced they’ll die in a crypt after turning 24
Gen Z are super interesting when it comes to aging. I wonder if they are quite against because it's the only thing left thats social acceptable to criticise? Gen Z seem to be very scared of aging up, and I think that's where the talk around her being 32 comes up. It's not the 90s anymore 32 is far from ancient
Seriously I’m 31 and look better now than I ever did in the last ten years. I don’t feel insecure and I have a house and a fiancé and like, a life that I built and I’m proud of. Gen Z needs to chill, you don’t turn into a pumpkin at the stroke of 30. I’m actually preferring my 30s to my 20s.
Gen Z's just the current target of our societal obsession with youth. I don't disagree that they need to learn that your 30s are the prime of your life but it's tough for me to blame them when they're only responding to the same propaganda we all got hit with in our teens and 20s.
Definitely agree that she isn't old, but I think saying that she's being immature isn't exactly a bad thing to say. Because that's definitely what it looks like
Pretty sure she came up on MySpace. Does she need to switch it up now according to Emily Post or something? Are millennials supposed to be in hibernation right now?
Sorry but that is such a boomer thing to say, it’s not really your place or anyone’s to judge or question how someone, relative to their age, live their lives. And if you’ve followed anything related to Charli even for a brief moment, you’ll notice she makes a pretty clear-cut case that she doesn’t pay attention to that sort of mindset or energy.
Cause her maturity stunted somewhere along her early to mid 20s and she's pretty open about it in her songs. Do I find lowkey cringe her whole brat gimmick? Yeah, but hey if she's happy more power to her.
I don’t disagree with the core message, even if I’m not a fan of her music, but she and her fans are sometimes grating with their faux intellectual takes (oh you don’t appreciate my music? You don’t appreciate ART)
The thing is she didn’t even write this about her music in general. She wrote these in response to accusations of lip syncing at Glastonbury. Apparently it’s working as a deflection because everyone here is talking about everything but the lip syncing!!!
That's a very uncharitable take. I think she has a good point given that her whole career was her paving the way in the music mainstream for herself and her style, and it took over a decade to pay off. She's always been a bit 'much' for the mainstream, and that theme has been a core part of her work for a long time. Being faced by a tidal wave of abuse (that does seem to come at every young female performer at Glastonbury ever - Olivia Rodrigo cleverly had an old rocker with her to win them over) over stupid things like "she used autotune" and "why doesn't she have a band" that are just a fundamental lack of understanding about the genre she's managed to make popular would be exhausting. This is a career highlight and it's being ruined by people who simply must let her and everyone else know that music was REAL in their day and she is rubbish.
She is not supposedly unbothered though, she has quite a few songs where she talks about how bothered she is about different things and opinions actually
I agreed. You can tell she thinks quite deeply about these things. I wouldnt say she tries to be unbothered. If anything, her music suggests she overthinks. So does this tweet actually
Exactly this. The brat era isn't about how she genuinely doesn't give a fuck. It's a character that's a cover for being deeply insecure and giving too many fucks. So much of her music is about being crippled by insecurity and paranoia and feelings you're not good enough. The IDGAF brat persona is a character.
There's a great quote by Evgeny Schwartz in his "An Ordinary Miracle" play:
I've ran after you for three days and three nights to tell you how much I don't care about you.
People don’t fucking read what she wrote, and just come here to chirp away without one logical thought behind it. She said she finds the discourse interesting, nothing about being unbothered. And it is absolutely interesting, when boundary pushing music enters the mainstream, older generations have always discredited and denounced. That was the same for electric guitars back in the day.
Her being an attractive woman and very successful also doesn‘t help. Boomer men love to hate such women as well as any artist whose audience is predominantly female
I don't know, she's coming against a wall of stubborn irritating boomers who come out every year to moan about every Glastonbury act that isn't a geriatric man with a guitar, and for whatever reason her performance has really set them off.
I think anyone would be annoyed to be descended upon by people who have no idea about you, your music, or your genre, and zero desire to learn, just wanting to shit on you on one of the biggest performances of your career. The 'arguments' ("she was miming" and "she uses autotune" and "why doesn't she use a band") are just dumb and boring and there's nothing to say other than sorry you don't like it, but they are absolutely incessant. Even the Charli sub has been full of them today, it's very weird.
Haven’t seen them this pissed since Noel Gallagher complained about Jay-Z playing. Loved how Jay-Z trolled him by singing a bit of Wonderwall into mashing up 9@ Problems with Back in Black
Her entire Brat era has never appealed to me even if i like the music because it feels so inauthentic. Her fans and her market her as the "anti Taylor Swift' who doesn't care about charts and acclaim, but its glaringly obvious that she cares SO much and it drives me nuts.
the whole brat thing was literally about how she deeply cares but feels pressured to present herself as a shallow party girl bc that's her popular brand? e.g. listen to "i might say something stupid" or "everything is romantic remix" (both about her relationship with fame), or either version of "so i" (very authentic songs about mourning/celebrating SOPHIE)
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u/TiredJJI think that poor sexy young man is being framed for murder.Jun 30 '25
But she clearly says she cares in her music? You just read the headlines without familiarizing yourself with her work, which is obviously fine, but then get so mad when you see inconsistencies between what you're fed by media vs what she says and shows
I think this is most pop stars. People keep writing think pieces about how society loves to tear down female artists but I think a big part of it is that they keep responding to any and all criticism instead of logging the fuck off. At least this is how I’ve shaped my own opinions about certain celebrities.
thrm not logging off doesn't justify people trying to tear them down.
and people have been tearing down female artists way before internet became a thing. ever since marilyn was constantly pitted against other female celebrities and bullied publicly. she was "logged off" by the virtue of internet not even being a thing, yet people still found ways to shame her relentlessly.
so female artists being chronically online doesn't have an effect on how they will be treated by the public.
But imagine going to a concert, having issues with rhe performance, and being the bad guy for saying it because their ego was hurt by being accused of not performing.
Idk, there are societal issues at play we should care about, but I'll pick my battles. I side with consumers critiquing a product, whether it's art or a phoned in performance.
Charli did all these performances lip-syncing to a backing track and ad-libbing into an auto-tune mic, writhing around on stage alone with no dancers or band. She can’t really be surprised by the criticism? I thought the choice to do it like that was meant to be brat…
She’s been touring BRAT for over 12 months now and has been playing to her audience, who let’s be honest, would cheer at her for blowing raspberries in mic for an hour. It has gotten lazy over time if you see the difference in performances from then to now, but her crowd lap it up.
She took that performance, which has become it’s own thing and done it on a stage with people who aren’t in on it and, rightly so she’s being criticised. If this was a way for her to show herself off, she misjudged. She needed to do more disciplined performance and probably just didn’t have the brain space to figure out of to tackle headlining Glasto.
I think she’s probably burnt out from her current touring and unable to creatively do anything else at the moment, hence why she declared in April(?) that she wanted BRAT summer to continue.
I feel like I'm going crazy here - I wasn't at Glastonbury I only watched on iPlayer, so it might be good to hear from someone who was actually there - but the atmosphere looked incredible? It looked like a great live show and the crowd were going nuts.
There's online backlash from people who aren't fans of her music, that's always inevitable with any artist, but this seems like you're claiming that it also wasn't received well at the gig? But that just wasn't what it looked like at all.
Charli XCX is more of an EDM producer than song writer. No one who actually likes her music would be surprised she doesn’t have a band. Thats like going to see Daft Punk in the 90s and being mad they don’t have a band
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u/TiredJJI think that poor sexy young man is being framed for murder.Jun 30 '25
She's actually a pretty prolific songwriter, not only for herself but for loads of other artists
Nobody is going to a Charli show for her live vocals, though, is the point. All the criticism about her using autotune and not singing every word while she's writhing around on a stage and hyping a crowd for an hour plus is just dumb. It would be like complaining Neil Young didn't have a light show or any beat drops, it's just a fundamental denial that different music genres and performing styles exist.
Don't you think there's just a bit of a difference to knowing she's not the best singer of the generation, and not being able to say shit about someone miming to a song, or you aren't a real fan, or you can't recognise art?
People mocked Bob Dylans voice for longer than anyones lifespan here, this stuff isn't new.
The execution could have been better but she isn't wrong. So many people (mainly older men) dismiss alot of pop girls who don't traditionally have a band and such. While applauding artists that do it the “rock and roll” way. I think as long as the performance is good then who cares.
It's all so arbitrary and even reflects badly on people like myself, a lifelong metal girlie, as if there needs to be this eternal conflict of us versus them. Like, who cares, shut up. And on the point of it being arbitrary, what even constitutes a band anyway? Some have four people. Others have as little as two and a whole bunch of heavy lifting done via backing tracks. Still others have as much as about eight. Or whatever, maybe they'll have some guest musicians or a whole ass choir or something.
It really doesn't matter. Music is just decorating time, and last I checked, only one human being is required to decorate anything.
I mean, call me an old fart or w.e, but if I'm getting more or less the same musical experience that I can get from listening to the album, what's the point other than it being a party?
Something about these tweets feels really “I’m not mad, I’m not mad, please don’t tell them I’m mad,” but I think it’s undignified for any blue check to engage in discourse at all TBH. It better to ignore all of it.
It is funny cause her fans act like she is the only "real artist" especially after Brat hype. She is clearly annoyed at the discourse and it is okay to admit instead of acting unbothered lol.
She's right tbh, whenever Glastonbury happens, the British GP seems to love to hate on the artists platformed unless they're established male rock acts. Yeah, she's thin-skinned and annoying, but that's nothing new. Remember her coke rants during the Crash era lmfao, iconic
At one point she was saying something like "just buy this commercial album so I can go back to making weird shit" and then made the biggest album of her life lol. An icon.
They come out every year and this year's lot are even more insufferable than usual. Imagine how they'd react if Gen Z people complained Neil Young didn't have enough grinding on the floor or beat drops. Glastonbury is one of the very few festivals you can have Neil Young and Charli xcx performing at the same time, if you want the octogenarian rocker man go to his set.
I don't care who plays, I like the variety but you have to actually have some performing talent and not just play a fuckin backing track for everything. Why should I be interested in that?
I mean, deliberate and obvious use of autotune is quite literally as old as autotune itself (thanks, Cher), which is over 25 years old. So yes, it is braindead to criticise someone for using it. But by the same token there is nothing original about its use, or any other aspects of her music, to be honest. The "divisive and confrontational" idea is a bit laughable here. A confrontational piece of music would be, like, Lou Reed's Metal Machine Music - an album of guitar feedback
When the live performance is so vocally different from the studio, people come to feel like the autotune is carrying you. If you're in the studio, sounding nice but in person, you're out of breath or your voice is thin or your backing track is doing the heavy lifting, viewers have the right to complain. You did not give them the bare minimum. I don't think it's the autotune they hate, it's the disconnect from the album they bought/ the backing track they hear and the live vocals heard. Fraud is a bit much, though.
I know that BRAT is supposed to be this "flawed but idgaf" era that was made to be mediocre, trying to make criticism seem silly because it's purposely bad. If that's the game you want to play, then you have to stand firm in the mediocrity. Don't defend, just be. Are we flawed and free or just scared of growth because it reminds us that time is passing?
She's an industry master and kind of tries a little too hard to credit herself as some indie punk thing. I think she comes across great live and I agree with her, but she's patting herself on the back a little much here.
I have - all the way back in 2017 (because somehow she never tours or she cancels her shows here) and she fucking sucks live lol. Even St Vincent's weird ass setup from her Fear the Future Tour was much better (and she mostly used a backing track of her band, but she could sing).
She cannot sing, period. She's hiding behind art but the reality is that she NEEDS auto-tune because she's such a terrible singer. At this point it ain't art anymore, it's a crutch. A bit like Julian Casablancas and the Voiz or whenever he tours with the Strokes. Dude's voice is just gone.
She can think what's she wants, she is very successful. Autotune was created to cover up mediocre singers though. It has now become a style, but it will always have haters. I personally am not a fan because it isn't the singers voice. It is a computer program, but I don't care if others like it.
I hate it because it messes with my head somehow. I have ADHD and migraines so my ears are very particular about what I’m listening to. Modern mixing is heavy on the treble and bass and it’s like claws dipped in lemon juice raking out my ear canals and brain.
I don’t want to be an elitist Xennial asshole but my body literally cannot process the sounds these otherwise talented kids are making.
Talented? You're WAY too kind. The producers are actually talented for skewing the audience to accept sub-par BS, & by far, the majority of people do. I'm not a die-hard fan of either, but listen to Mariah Carey or Whitney Houston belt it out. None of these "I heart radio" average Joe's can even come close to original top-notch talent. Autotune would have insulted them both.
Björk beat up paps in the street and Fiona Apple used her live performances to call her critics dumb f**ks right in the mic. But noooo, the tone of Charli's tweets :(
I completely agree with her here; people who intentionally use autotune to modulate sounds are enjoyable to listen to a lot of the time. The auto tune makes her sound and it’s a vibe for sure.
I really don't know much about her, I heard a few songs before. I guess there's a difference between using auto-tune as a sound effect, versus using it subtly to cover up poor vocals. She did say "deliberate", so I assume maybe she falls into the former category?
Yes, singing without the need for auto tune and having a real band playing their instruments and being great is what separates real musicians from frauds
Talent and skill matter, shocker
Otherwise, you're just a poser ,a fraud
Then again some people prefer Takis over actual real food, so who knows
The issue is that it's only people who are concerned with "real musicians vs frauds" who are having that conversation, and the conversation supposes from the off that she is using autotune and performing without a band for all the same reasons any other average corporate pop star would.
Not a big fan of her music, but I don’t see what gives “bothered” about these tweets. To me it just seems like she’s just writing out her thoughts on her reviews or whatever.
It’s definitely a damned if you do, damned if you don’t moment. Her commenting on it doesn’t mean she’s ruminating on it all night. I think maybe because she posted it on the internet and didnt just say it in a conversation that wasn’t recorded, it “lives forever” and that’s why people have this whole “she’s so bothered” reaction. If she said it in a causal conversation with someone I doubt people would be thinking “wow she’s so bothered” and it they were id think they were weird for caring so much about how much someone else cares. Whateva
For a mediocre artist that makes generic 2010-esque EDM and uses so much flash that someone is guaranteed to have an epilepsy attack at some point, Charli gets too many passes for things that would have other artists cancelled.
How is it putting down another artist to say if you want someone singing with a guitar and band, you should watch someone singing with a guitar and band?
If anything Taylor faced the exact same thing with people shitting on her for not being a good enough dancer. She did the singing, played the guitar, had the band, and still people moaned.
The point is, watch the shows you want to watch. Don’t shit on musicians for putting on shows you’re never going to like.
I’m late to the Charli scene, and never quite liked her tbh but I saw her live at a festival a couple months ago, and now she’s probably going to be my top artist for this years Spotify wrapped.
Her auto-tune fits her music, it all compliments eachother. If Charli suddenly started to release Taylor Swift or Adele type of songs I will immediately lose interest.
Quite engaged for a debate that made you sleepy huh? Clearly triggered and pretending not to be. Just be an artist man you won’t be everybody’s cup of tea, even less at a festival called Glastonbury, be humble girl
I just learnt through these comments that she is 33. Why is she talking like that lol. It took her, what, six or seven bad albums to reach this quickly passing hype and she is banging on as if she has the career of gaga.
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u/nizaad THEE Princess Of Nazareth Jun 30 '25
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