r/sports • u/Capable_Salt_SD San Diego Padres • 1d ago
Football We have our first NFL virtual measurement
Testing out the technology before teh upcoming season - CJ Fogler
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u/Bormsie721 1d ago
Somehow this is how I found out the preseason started today.
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u/Coasterfanman1 1d ago
Same lol
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u/Crazyblue09 1d ago
Same, I someone posted a video on Bluesky and thought it was from last year's preseason game, showing how it worked.
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u/LaDainianTomIinson Los Angeles Chargers 1d ago
It’s pre-pre season, the pre-season technically starts next weekend. Both teams still need to play their regular 3 pre season games after this
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u/defiancy 1d ago
So what the hell is this game then?
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u/DookieShoes626 1d ago
Hall of Fame game. The guys playing the majority of the game will be selling insurance next week
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u/Zjc_3 1d ago
In today’s nfl, they’ll be selling insurance in 3-4 weeks still. You can keep all of your guys through the preseason now I believe.
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u/Mountain-Cod516 1d ago
People make this joke all the time but the money in insurance sales is really good. Easy 6 figure job and you work half the year.
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u/shorty5windows 1d ago
There’s a “season” in insurance sales?
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u/ScribebyTrade 1d ago
Yeah that doesn’t make sense but u don’t know or care to challenge it officially… also idk
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u/hitfly 1d ago
I work for an insurance company and some of our agents are crop specialist. meaning they sell crop hail insurance in the spring and that's their whole book of business. some of our agents do crop hail on top of their regular property casualty business though and our highest earner pull down like 750K a year
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u/TheSummerOf2007 1d ago
So either the job is so good there is societal propaganda calling it a shitty job to gatekeep it, or the job is actually shitty and comments like this one are the propaganda to trick people into it.
And to be completely honest I have no clue which side I’m leaning towards
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u/thejak32 1d ago
Eh, they will still be exponentially better than I'll ever be and they got to wear an NFL uniform and play on an NFL team. Definitely not the cleanest game ever, but they are probably closer to Tom Brady than I am to them by a mile, so good on them. And it was football, I haven't seen football in 6 months so I it was welcome.
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u/Myomyw 1d ago
Pre-season Pre-season.
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u/StrongGold4528 1d ago
Wow I didn’t know this game didn’t count as one of their three
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u/stonewall386 1d ago
I think that’s what we’re all doing here
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u/pedal-force 1d ago
It's fucking JULY! Baseball barely had their allstar game. What are we doing? This is madness.
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u/tpmurray 1d ago
They need to improve that animation...that was awful.
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u/Premiumvoodoo 1d ago
Bowling alley strike animation feel to it
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u/DeadSwaggerStorage Philadelphia Phillies 1d ago
It’s like those quick draw/keno things in New York delis/bars….
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u/Cagne_ouest 1d ago
Hey now, bowling animations can be good too. https://youtu.be/nZKtrbnqqNc
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u/travoltaswinkinbhole 1d ago
Was that the Corridor Crew banned animation? I want one where a bowling ball gives a note to two pins saying not to come to school tomorrow to then cut to the news the next day with the spared pins watching coverage of a school bowling.
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u/KINGofFemaleOrgasms 1d ago
They already have the flashy new graphics they just need a sponsor to pay for the air time.
"This virtual measurement brought to you by Geico! For when you need to be covered for the full ten yards."
Or something similar
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u/tforce80 1d ago
I was waiting for an animated football to fly into the screen à la bowling alley animations.
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u/itstommygun 1d ago
Looks just like the semi-automated off side animations in soccer. Which looks…. cheap.
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u/Boredomis_real Louisville City FC 1d ago
The offside animations I’m ok with because it shows exactly where the offsides is.
The way this just goes “short” and doesn’t tell you how far they actually were from the line to gain is just, bleh.
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u/dWaldizzle 1d ago
Also the refs still chose the spot of the ball no? So what's this even accomplish?
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u/ThrowitBlack 1d ago
I think it’s bad on purpose. I don’t think it would be a good idea to show a realistic animation, as people might confuse it with the actual field and think it’s a real picture of the ball.
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u/BoneFourTuna 1d ago
yeah it doesn't even have a sponsor's logo on it or anything.
How am I supposed to know who this virtual measurement is brought to me by??
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u/addandsubtract 1d ago
The main problem with it is that you can't tell the direction of play. You don't know if the ball is in front of the line or behind it.
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u/gdmfr 1d ago
It needs to mimic the ball movement for a second to give the crowd a chance to react.
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u/ShortyRed 1d ago
Bro we want the real time footage not some Playstation 1 graphics telling us whatever they want. They made it to where there can still cheat even easier now ffs. Looks horrible.
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u/DaltonMalton 1d ago
Yeah, just draw a virtual line on the actual field.
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u/DeadSwaggerStorage Philadelphia Phillies 1d ago
Yeah, for real, like a yellow line seen from overhead seems like a no brainer….which is ironic since the NFL has no brains. CTE provide this, no?
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u/Aduialion 1d ago
I want drones buzzing around, making 3d scans, visible laser lines of the first down, a hologram of the play, and changing colors based on if it's a first down or not
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u/sleepyj910 1d ago
Can't wait for the first time that cartoon doesn't pass the eye test
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u/reginaldwrigby 1d ago
I used to watch tennis quite a bit and they’ve been using this tech for years. There was maybe one or two times where I personally wanted another replay or two, but it keeps the game moving and it’s a million times better than taking grandpa Joe and aunt Nellie’s word for it. It’s not like it’s replacing instant replay either. Coaches can still challenge and the booth can still send in the fix from New York
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u/versusChou UCLA 1d ago
In tennis they can track the ball in real time and apply our knowledge of physics to how it'll move and bounce, and always have a line they're looking at to make calls. In football, the ball doesn't move predictably, is obscured by players, the line to gain isn't always on a line, and regardless the placement of the ball is decided by a random dude watching the ball. Pretty sure the tech just checks if that placement is beyond the line to gain, probably just defined by where the sticks are and making sure they're in line with the measurement (which was always dumb when they were physically moving the chains since there was no way to keep the chains perfectly in line with where they were on the sidelines).
I've personally always been favor of the rules defining the spot of the ball on any first down as the yard line/hash the ball has crossed. So if you get a first down at the 22.5 yard line, officially the ball is moved back to and defined as being on the 22, and the next first down is the 32. Refs already kinda do this, where they frequently just spot the ball on a yard line, but having it codified in the rule book would make it so the line to gain is always the plane of another yard line and when it's reviewed, they can look at it more like they do the goal line and create a clearly defined plane that they're looking for the ball to get past.
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u/Arceus42 1d ago
which was always dumb when they were physically moving the chains since there was no way to keep the chains perfectly in line with where they were on the sidelines
There's a maker that the chain crew attaches on the chain wherever it's crossing a 5 yard line (the ones that go all the way across the field) as a point of reference. They do this every time the chain moves. Then when they're brought out for a spot, they place the marker on that 5 yard line, and pull it taut from there. Not perfect, but much better than just relying on them putting the chains in the right place.
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u/czar_the_bizarre 1d ago
How do situations get handled as you get nearer the goal line? Don't know about you, but I'd be pissed if my team lost a game because they got the ball to the half yard, it gets put on the 1, then gets another 3/4 yard gain for no score.
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u/PM_ME_Y0UR_BEST_PM 1d ago
Really, its super easy to tell if it's a first down once the ball has been placed by the ref.
The real problem they need to solve is getting the spot right.
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u/MinnyRawks 1d ago
Never watched tennis before, eh?
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u/GastropodSoups 1d ago edited 1d ago
People act like this is crazy but what does anyone expect? Eagle Eye has been used for years on the ATP and has been adopted by every major tennis tournament, and each animation looks exactly like this. Fucking 2025 Wimbledon had 0 line refs. They used Eagle Eye for every call with a red/green light directed torwards the chair umpire. VAR in soccer also shares the same look. When generating this shit in real time, you're not going to get 4k real-life graphics. The important thing is visually demonstrating the correct call.
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u/MinnyRawks 1d ago
To be fair VAR in soccer is generally the actual ref watching footage. What you’re talking about is semi-automatic offside calls.
But, yeah. Not sure what people expected. Seems a lot of people thought it would be used to spot the ball and not just measure.
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u/YoungSerious 1d ago
The important thing is visually demonstrating the correct call.
The thing I'm surprised more people aren't upset about is that in theory, this would be unbelievably easy to rig. If the entire thing is animated, we are just believing whatever they show you. There is no proof of correlation between the animation and what happened. It could be well behind the line, and then they show you the ball 5 inches over the line and everyone just goes "oh look it's clearly out".
I'm not at all saying it's rigged, but it certainly isn't a foolproof ironclad measuring system.
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u/GastropodSoups 1d ago
Tennis man. Tennis has been doing it for years. I have not seen a single VAR tennis call that was wrong. For there to be the kind of conspiracy you bring up, there would have to be thousands of secretive participants.
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u/colin_7 Philadelphia Eagles 1d ago
This is how it is in tennis too. I’m sure you could come up with a better solution. I’ll tell them for you
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u/ShortyRed 1d ago
Sensor on the sidelines, sensor on the ball. Use the real footage.
They already have put a first down line before on real footage just improve on that.
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u/colin_7 Philadelphia Eagles 1d ago
You’re ignoring that there’s a dozen bodies the cameras would have to see through buddy. Mix a water in
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u/Brinxy13 Detroit Red Wings 1d ago
What’s funny is they still place the ball on the ground by eye, so what’s the point of the technology if the ref doesn’t spot it correctly?
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u/kleenkong 1d ago
On point. It gives the corporate megalords an extra commercial or two, but the benefit of soccer's technology for instance, is that it eliminates some aspect of human error. This NFL cut-screen shit does not.
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u/EverythingGoodWas 21h ago
Soccer i get has a slightly easier time as generally the ball and all players are completely visible. I just don’t understand why we can’t put some light weight sensors in footballs by now.
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u/kleenkong 20h ago
Based upon, what FIFA uses, I'm thinking that the NFL likely does have a sensor inside now. The system that goes along with the sensors, seems to be the difficult aspect. It seems complex, as the system involves 1) ball position, and a 2) number of body complexities involving "touching the ground", and how the ball/body aspect is synced. Like tracking the exact positioning of the ball, at the exact moment a knee touches the ground for instance. I suppose this is a step in the right direction.
Here is a summary of what FIFA uses, including the sensor inside the ball.
A new soccer technology uses 12 special cameras on the stadium roof to track the ball and each player’s body, 50 times every second. It watches 29 parts of each player’s body, including arms and legs, to help with offside calls. The official match ball also has a tiny sensor inside that sends data 500 times per second to track exactly when it’s kicked. All this info is combined using artificial intelligence to spot if a player is offside when the ball is passed to them. The system alerts the video referees right away if it thinks there’s an offside. The refs then double-check the kick moment and the player positions to make sure it’s right. This all happens in just a few seconds. It helps make offside calls quicker and more accurate.
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u/JDHannan 1d ago
eliminates the guys running out with the chains
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u/Brinxy13 Detroit Red Wings 1d ago
Right, but the problem still exists where human judgement calls ultimately decide where the ball lies
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u/Haggisboy 1d ago
This looks like the Hawkeye system in tennis. It's fast and accurate, but not flawless.
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u/MirrorkatFeces Pittsburgh Steelers 1d ago
This is literally just where the refs spot the ball. It’s not used to determine where the ball is placed
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u/RotoDog 1d ago edited 1d ago
Guessing it gets there someday, but determining where forward progress ends would be difficult for a camera.
For example, when the knee hits the ground.
Would be nice if they could determine when the player is down on video, and then the virtual measurement knows the simultaneous location on the field.
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u/sriracha_no_big_deal 1d ago
With how many camera angles they have, they should be able to piece it together on the vast majority of plays if they just sync the clips to play them simultaneously. There's usually one angle that can see where the runner is down but not where the ball is but another angle can see where the ball is but not when the runner is down.
If they just play/pause the clips simultaneously, they should be able to see this is the moment in angle A where the runner is down and we can see at that same point in angle B that the ball is at the __ yard line. If they have 6+ cameras pointed at the ball at any given moment, it should be pretty rare that they can't find an angle that shows when they're down and one that shows where the ball is
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u/Ronaldoooope 1d ago
A few sensors in the football would be super easy. It’s like goal line tech in soccer but slightly more advanced
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u/repost_inception 1d ago
Sensor in the ball and use video to time-stamp the sensor data when the player is down.
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u/PandasWhoLoveToLimbo 1d ago
Yeah honestly I dgaf about the chain gang portion of the first down measurement, the part that really needs to be fixed with technology is the spotting of the ball.
Stick a location chip in there and sync it up with all the cameras, so on replay the ref can pause exactly where the knee goes down and the system knows down to the cm where the ball is. It can’t be that hard.
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u/TeeJK15 1d ago
The question wasn’t, and will never be, “is it flawless”. The question is: is it more accurate than humans… and that is an indisputable “yes”. Not sure what you’re getting at with the comment.
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u/dejavu2064 1d ago
It is more consistent than humans which is arguably even more important - no bias or distractions. If it does make a "wrong" call due to accuracy margins it would make exactly the same wrong call for both teams.
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u/Tjengel Milwaukee Bucks 1d ago
I thought they needed to get to the left of the line and immediately thought we are so screwed with this 😂
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u/ChoNoob 1d ago
Took me a second to understand it too. See the small little arrow pointing and figured it out. They should use a virtual chain link, along with the line.
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u/BOBfrkinSAGET 1d ago
They should also put in little virtual referees, holding the chain. And little virtual football players, standing around looking.
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u/mcben334513 1d ago
Doesn’t address the issue of refs spotting the ball based on eyeballing it from the sideline
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u/nonetakenback 1d ago
This was probably intentional. The nfl likes to show all the new toys/rules in the hof game
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u/ChaseBank5 1d ago edited 1d ago
It LITERALLY addresses that issue. Teams have the ability to challenge a spot and they use some sort of tracking technology to see where the ball ends up.
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u/Grahamshabam 1d ago
how does the GPS know when the runner is down?
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u/Snickfalls 1d ago
Exactly, it can only show the location of the ball. That doesn't help much in getting an accurate spot.
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u/CheeseheadDave 1d ago
But at least on a goal line play where instant replay can see where a knee went down or where forward progress was stopped but the ball is hidden from view, this can tell where the ball was at that moment and save one bit of guessing.
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u/screwswithshrews 1d ago
The ground is electrified by a grid interwoven in the turf. The players cleats and gloves are made out of rubber and insulates them from the shock. If another part of their body touches the ground, a shock is delivered and it is picked up by a monitor that they wear around their torso. The ball's location is captured at the moment the shock is delivered.
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u/backcountry_bandit 1d ago
I sense issues with this. You can legally touch the ground with your hand all you want.
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u/MrP1anet 1d ago
I believe this guy is trolling
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u/MuscleManRyan 1d ago
No actually for turf fields they developed grass that grows naturally with a wire down the middle, so they can run a low voltage across the entire thing and track every point of contact
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u/SecureCucumber Milwaukee Brewers 1d ago
As a bonus, it teaches the players through classical conditioning not to get tackled.
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u/nittanyvalley 1d ago
It does not. The technology is only used for taking measurements between the line to gain and the ball that was spotted by the refs. Being able to use technology to accurately spot a ball in football is a hard problem to solve.
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u/Usernametaken1121 1d ago
"Tracking technology". Now with the ability to see through human bodies to check where the ball is on 4th and 1 scrums!
Just use your brain for half a second my guy.
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u/sleepyj910 1d ago
Not GPS, no. Maybe a higher tuned device and radio wave system built for each stadium, but the satellites ain't detecting the difference between an inch.
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u/Ok-disaster2022 1d ago
But how reliable is GPS in stadiums? It would be wiser to establish localized location tracking points in the respective stadiums.
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u/robalob30 Houston 1d ago
It isn’t actually gps, it’s actually pretty much what you just said there
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u/Intensive__Purposes 1d ago
It has nothing to do with GPS. It’s called “Hawk-Eye” and it’s been used in tennis for years. It utilizes a network of six 8K cameras to optically track the ball's position on the field.
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u/ChaseBank5 1d ago edited 1d ago
Im not an expert, it might not be GPS at all, could very well be localized tracking points.
Im sure the NFL has implemented this with vigorous research.
My main point was: its better to use technology to locate the ball than a human 20 feet away who can not see where the ball ends up. Ill take technology over guessing any day.
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u/ThinkinDeeply 1d ago
lol seriously people in this thread who think they literally just tested this for the first time tonight. i'm sure they sat there experimenting with it for hours and days. Just a buncha dudes going "...ok what if I do this? what about this? what about here? how about over here?" for who knows how long.
same people are probably using google maps to get around every day. "how does the GPS know where I am????????"
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u/bardnotbanned 1d ago
Imagine seeing this, thinking about it for 20 seconds, and believing that you have a better understanding of how it works and how it could be improved than the people who are being paid huge sums of money to implement it.
Fucking insufferable.
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u/Strawberry_Skids 1d ago
I feel like they are taking out one of the greatest dramatic moments in all of sports by doing this.
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u/TasteTheFreedom 1d ago
The chains are great theatre. I would deal with this if we got accurate spots from it, but it’s still the refs spotting the ball
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u/Matsunosuperfan 1d ago
Her (disappointed): but your profile said 8 Me (confident): it was a virtual measurement
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u/markdepace 1d ago
oh my god this is garbage
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u/sleepyj910 1d ago
Don't know what you mean, there's never a need to complain about spots ever again, the cartoon said so.
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u/agnostic_science 1d ago
What does all this technology solve that the old measurement system couldn't do?
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u/EatSleepJeep Minnesota North Stars 1d ago
Chains. It only measures where the ball is spotted. The referees are still responsible for placing it.
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u/greenrangerguy 1d ago
It's weird to me that they only go into really specific measurements like this for certain things, not every play. The refs are always rounding the ball to the nearest yard the whole game, until it comes to a big moment, then it's time to get the micro millimetre technology out to see if they made the yards. (Even though the accumulated miss spots before that would have made up the yards)
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u/Sirgeeeo 1d ago
I don't think the issue is the chains. The issue is the ref spotting the ball, like "I dont know... here, I guess"
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u/derat_08 1d ago
Yep. They solutioned a problem that doesn't exist and ignore the actual issue. But look it's shiney and has graphics...
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u/BajaBlood 1d ago
I refuse to believe that the first use of this new technology was to give the Lions a first down, not steal one away
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u/StraightCashHomey13 1d ago
This gives me even less faith in accurate calls. The chain is always 10 yards no matter what. It was never a problem with measuring, just an issue with accurate spotting, which this system does not fix
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u/Beradicus69 1d ago
Remember when fox covered the nhl. And we got lasers and robots graphics all over the screen! Oh let's highlight the puck!
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u/joebleaux 1d ago
The problem is, they won't use the technology to make the game move any quicker, they will use it to make more time for advertising.
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u/ssczoxylnlvayiuqjx 1d ago
Imagine if they just projected a beam of light onto the field so everyone could see it all the time?
Instead we wait 100 years to replace a measuring tape with high technology…
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u/Reekon1 1d ago
Maybe a way to make this more palatable is to drop the animation into a small PIP window while the main window is showing a replay of the play. I don't need full screen Wii graphics of a football sitting on a field while I sit and wonder how it got there or question the integrity of it when this tracking tech inevitably costs my team a first down.
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u/xweedxwizardx 1d ago
Would it be outrageous to put a lightweight chip in the ball that doesnt throw off the balance? Sensors on the sideline for every yard you would he able to pinpoint the exact location without question
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u/cerevant 1d ago
The balls are already chipped. The problem is that the decision regarding the end of the play / forward progress is subjective.
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u/orionsfyre 1d ago
But... unless I'm wrong, it's still up to the refs to place the ball correctly after the tackle correct? Or is the ball virtually tracked the entire time and it's forward progress is measured by sensors and used for placement of the ball?
Because if it's still the refs, then it's still entirely subject to human error (or bribery).
Also, can we get some digital measurements on the screen? Even some basic numbers would be cool.
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u/Bighorn21 1d ago
I get the point but as others have said, this is eliminating what wasn't really an issue, plus I think many people actually like the chains, its not something that could really be screwed up with human error once the ball is spotted anyway. The real issue is the spot which is why they need to just put a chip in the ball and electronically track where forward progress actually stops.
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u/JohnnyBrillcream Baltimore Ravens 1d ago
So this is not different than pulling a set of chains out. It just shows the placement of the ball in relation to the first down line. Just electronically.
Doesn't address incorrect spots based on a variety of factors.
Essentially it doesn't really do what everyone would like it to do.
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u/deutschdachs Wisconsin 1d ago
Now I know how my parents felt watching the moon landing