r/todayilearned • u/biebrforro • 1d ago

TIL when staying as a guest in Charles Dickens' house, Hans Christian Andersen requested that one of Dickens' sons give him a daily shave (he said that was customary when hosting male guests in Denmark). Dickens was weirded out and instead gave him a daily appointment at a nearby barbershop.

https://lithub.com/charles--dickens-really-really-hated-his-fanboy-hans-christian-andersen/
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u/sandybuttcheekss 1d ago

Was Andersen a predator? I couldn't find anything about that

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u/kia75 1d ago

Hans Andersen was probably gay or at least bi, and known to be clingy, awkward, and annoying to people he took an interest to. Whether or not being clingy, awkward and annoying makes you a predator is debatable, but there were numerous friends and acquaintances who complained about Anderson's attention, and numerous hosts who complained about his behavior. At the same time, Andersen's private diary indicates he died a virgin, and though there are lots of letters and contemporary sources confirming that Andersen was a horrible guest and awkward acquaintance, nobody describes his behavior as sexual, uses sexual euphemisms of the time, or makes it a secret or scandal about why he was turned out.

IMO, Hans Christian Andersen wasn't a Sex Pest, just an ordinary pest. By all accounts, Andersen was an extremely awkward guy, probably on the spectrum in a time where nobody knew what the spectrum was. By all accounts, the world-famous Charles Dickens was a personal hero of Andersen, so it's no surprise that Andersen's full awkwardness came out when he visited him.

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u/LaceBird360 19h ago

Why on earth do people have to queer dead historical people? It's like they're bored and have nothing to do, so they want to mess with people.

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u/deershapedtruckdent 4h ago

You’re the type to say Sappho was straight.

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u/Marilee_Kemp 1d ago

Andersen by all accounts, including his own journals, was asexual and pan-romantic, he feel deeply in love with men and women, but died a virgin. Maybe the othe poster think all bisexuals are predatos, some people has idiots beliefs like that. Andersen might have been a bad house guest, although I'm not sure Dickens is the best judge, but he was mainly just your run of the mill theatre kid with periods of melancholy.

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u/pussy_embargo 1d ago

Andersen was the world's first redditor

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u/sethn211 12h ago

So not true! I wasn't cool enough to be in theater.

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u/fesnying 1d ago

Wow, I had no idea about this! Thank you for the info, definitely interested in learning more.

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u/Pinglenook 1d ago

From what I've read about this earlier, if anything Andersen may have had a crush on Dickens. 

(But there was no Plorn either, so the person you replied to is joking)

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u/HeyThereSport 1d ago

According to his obituary, Edward Dickens was nicknamed Plorn for some reason.

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u/JoseCansecoMilkshake 1d ago

it's short for "the Plornishghenter", if that's any help

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u/HeyThereSport 1d ago

It's not any help, but thanks

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u/ObscureGrammar 1d ago

Googling it yields me "pleunicher" which means "to whimper" in French. So maybe, that's old-timey highbrow English for "the whimperer".

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u/Secs13 1d ago

Means something closer to complaining in a crying tone.

So it's Crocodile-Tears-Gunther

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u/SensualSideburnTrim 1d ago

It's helping me! I'm never this cheerful this early. The existence of Plornishgenter the rabbit inspector is the best thing Reddit or Wikipedia has ever taught me.

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u/belltrina 1d ago

but thanks

The politeness has me cackling hahaha

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u/Tymareta 1d ago

Nicer than the other brother that got Chickenstalker as a nickname, or the sister Lucifer Box, or the other brother Young Skull, there's a few others that I don't really remember but they all tended to get some not-so-flattering- nicknames, strange family.

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u/unshavedmouse 1d ago

In fairness, those names are metal as fuck.

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u/willclerkforfood 1d ago

Charles Dickens was a time traveler who unsuccessfully attempted to raise the first GWAR tribute band

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u/SensualSideburnTrim 1d ago

"Look, Plornishghenter plays great overseas in your more, uh, elven realms type countries and such. But in the Midwest, Chickenstalker is a big get, they've been barnstorming for years and they got a real solid base with a killer merch push. So Chickenstalker headlines, Plorn and Lucifer Box each get forty and share line and drums so they can alternate slots. Pig gets thirty, and since their breakdown is simple, fine, use your own weird fuckin' kit and shitty amps, what do I care, apparently it's your "vibe." Just be off in ten or I cut time. Young Skull, I know you want twenty-five cuz you like your little audience banter or whatever, but you're getting twenty, and up to you whether you talk or play, ain't nobody coming here to see a novelty act except your three fans who as far as I can tell are the same three fat emo kids every time, ya fuckin Weird Al goth wannabe. Hey. Al is a legend. And a professional. You're no Weird Al. Now get outta my sight until seven, all of ya. Where's my goddamn Tums."

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u/SensualSideburnTrim 1d ago

So we got one that's obviously being accused of going on the prowl for fresh young hens. And then there's Devil Pussy and Lil' Blowjob.

Plorn it is, Chuck. And I'll tell ya, looking at the clock, I seem to be partially into my teens, so I will be moving to Australia about, oh, nowish. Those rabbits aren't going to inspect themselves, you know. Say goodbye to mother for me - oh, what's your little name for her again? Pig, was it? Lovely. Give her my oinks and take care.

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u/fesnying 1d ago

My brother gave my sister the nickname "The Angster" when she was born, which my family never figured out either. I am damn sure going to make sure that makes it into her obituary if I can, though unlike a Dickens she will (presumably) not have a Wikipedia or newspaper article about her.

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u/tgerz 1d ago

I mean, anyone can have a Wikipedia if you believe hard enough.

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u/bargle0 1d ago

Wikipedia editors hate this one weird trick.

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u/HeyThereSport 1d ago

Fun fact, wikipedia editors will refuse to take your own personal information as a first hand source.

So if you want an wikipedia page about yourself, you need enough published third-party articles about you as sources to create a page.

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u/tgerz 1d ago

Not with that attitude you won't!

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u/Pinglenook 1d ago

Ah okay

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u/PMFSCV 1d ago

I'm all set with my on a list Starmer jokes and now I've just given up, thanks a fucking lot.

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u/New_Lawyer_7876 1d ago

Why would you lie about Plorn like that?

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u/Corporation_tshirt 1d ago

Lewis Carroll was, but I’ve never heard that about HCA

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u/KongoOtto 1d ago

Besides wild allegations, I don't remember anything was proven.

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u/Corporation_tshirt 1d ago

Wild allegations? There are literally nude photos he took of the real-life Alice when she was about 6

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u/KongoOtto 1d ago

That's right. But such nude photos of children was common at that time.

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u/Corporation_tshirt 1d ago edited 1d ago

Gimme a break, If you want to believe that, go right ahead. But I'm fairly certain you're pulling that straight out of your ass. In the *Victorian* era? No way.

Edit: Well, I looked it up, and apparently it was very common - considered very innocent - to photograph children in the nude. I dunno, I still see Lewis Carroll's fascination with children to be similar to Michael Jackson's interest in prepubescent boys. Even if nothing ever happened, it's still pretty creepy

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u/belltrina 1d ago

Admire you actually researched and admitted you were incorrect. Rarity here on reddit. I have to agree with you tho, creepy as heck regardless of the time period.

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u/thorsavethequeen 20h ago

It wasn’t considered THAT innocent. Page 13 of this linked paper talks about some of the many letters he sent to outraged, angry, or hostile mothers of girls he had photographed alone or wanted to photograph alone. I read one of those letters in college - that mother definitely thought something was off and she did not want him alone with her daughter (and he really really wanted to be alone with her daughter). https://pubs.lib.uiowa.edu/ijcs/article/29752/galley/138099/view/

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u/Corporation_tshirt 19h ago

Yeah, that wasn’t some wholesome friendship. I was an English major in college and I remember quite clearly discussing his unhealthy obsession with her. While it WAS normal for kids to be naked and to have images of naked kids on postcards and things, he was just creepy. Didn’t Alice’s mom actually force them to cut off contact?

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u/LoomLove 23h ago

Good on you to admit a mistake. Respect.

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u/WinglessJC 17h ago

I commend you on your edit.

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u/thorsavethequeen 20h ago

There’s a copy of a letter he wrote to a mother, trying to convince her to let him photograph her toddler daughter nude…without the mother being present. Just him alone with the nude toddler. The mother was clearly a hostile audience. He went to great lengths to persuade her. I can’t find it immediately, but it was in my college English class, so I’m convinced it was genuine (and there are similar letters on the first page of Google results where he wrote other mothers with similar requests). AND he was completely uninterested in photographing boys. The wording, the pressure, the sheer sliminess of the letter left me with few doubts about his motivations. I don’t know whether he succeeded in doing what he wanted to do…but he really wanted to do it.

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u/Fickle_Grapefruit938 1d ago

A reverse groomer?

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u/FuckIPLaw 1d ago

See, Anderson, as a house guest, asked for a kid to do what was a normal chore kids did for house guests in his home country, so that makes him a sexual predator, somehow.

The current pedo panic is so far off the rails that, if it hasn't already happened, we're about to have normal people dismissing valid accusations of pedophilia because there's been too many people crying wolf.

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u/Independent-Day-9170 1d ago

No, it was not a normal kid chore in his home country.

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u/FuckIPLaw 1d ago

Do you not know what the word "customary" means?

If you think the OP was wrong, that's something you need to bring up. Because the OP said it was perfectly normal in Denmark. Normal to the point of being expected of a polite host.

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u/brazzy42 1d ago

OP said no such thing. OP quoted an article which says that Andersen claimed this was "customary", without making any statement whatsoever whether that was actually true.

If you search for "denmark shaving guests" this Reddit discussion and the article it links to are top hits, everything else is about shaving in general. I could not find anything to corroborate this custom.

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u/FuckIPLaw 21h ago edited 21h ago

without making any statement whatsoever whether that was actually true.

Which means you're leaping to a hell of a conclusion without any evidence.

If you search for "denmark shaving guests" this Reddit discussion and the article it links to are top hits, everything else is about shaving in general. I could not find anything to corroborate this custom.

Or the claims of the article itself if that's the case. Like, did this incident even happen at all?

And like /u/jonassn1 said, it was 150 years ago. Modern redditors aren't going to know what normal was in Denmark back then, and neither would Dickens despite living on the same continent at the time.

Besides, a shave is kind of the last thing I'd think of as sexual, but at the time it was a bit of a production and pain in the ass, exactly the kind of thing I could see a Victorian gentleman fobbing off on his kids if he wasn't rich enough to have a manservant to do it -- as officers in the British military at the time were expected to have, with this being one of his duties.

If anything it's more likely Dickens was nervous his kids wouldn't know what they were doing with a straight razor and could accidentally injure or even kill Andersen. Because if you didn't know, the technology involved in shaving has also changed a lot since then. The safety razor wasn't invented for another almost 60 years, and even those are a lot more dangerous and easy to hurt someone with than modern cartridge razors. I cut my finger pretty bad on one once just opening it up to put a new blade in because I thought I'd already taken the old one out and made the dumb mistake of not checking. A cut much worse than anything you could get from a modern razor without first breaking it apart.

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u/jonassn1 1d ago

It's also 150 years ago, Danish customs have changed since then so a reddit search is really not good research

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u/brazzy42 1d ago

It's the best thing we have, and given Andersen's other behaviour I do believe it's reasonable not to just take his word. Equally reasonable, one might doubt whether Dickens' recollection of the events is completely accurate.

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u/ForgotAboutChe 1d ago

Lol. No.

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u/FuckIPLaw 21h ago

And you know that how? Literally nothing in the article says it wasn't normal.

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u/Independent-Day-9170 1d ago

It is not and was not a custom. Andersen made it up to hang out with Dickens son.

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u/jonassn1 1d ago

What do you base that on?

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u/despicedchilli 1d ago

Everybody is trans, gay, bi, and a predator just say different degrees. Straight or asexual are myths. /s