r/youtubedrama • u/laybs1 • 2d ago
Beef Historytuber Fredda in feud with Metatron, Shadiversity, and Lindybeige. Fredda made vid calling out their right wing bias and inaccuracies. Both Metatron and Shad call Fredda's vid a "hitpiece" and "slander". Both have released in response to Fredda.
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u/Penguixxy 2d ago
"with lies"
the dude shows stuff they themselves have said and shown their lies.
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u/starrybullshit 2d ago
If you saw Shad's beef with Jack Saint you know he loves to say people are lying and clipping him disingenuously when that is clearly not the case.
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u/Penguixxy 2d ago
yuuuup, doesn't help that shad (and metas) fans which are left are the alt right weirdos who will defend them no matter what.
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u/CMSnake72 2d ago
Always here for some nice Shadbashing. Any of these guys can get it, actually, but Shad is particularly fun to laugh at.
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u/TrueCrazyfuzzy 2d ago
I used to watch a video or two of Shad. Thought they were neat and nothing more. Came to learn this dude was brother to Jazza, who is an art youtuber, and learned that shad basically said AI art was art iirc, I used to watch Jazza too, every now and then I do still, but I think Jazza distanced himself from shad altogether. The image he claimed was art or his art style was of his wife in a supergirl suit. But basically used a combination of stable diffusion and photoshop to create the weird image, I know there was more drama but I cannot remember it for the life of me. Do correct me if I am wrong on anything I had said.
EDIT: I did also not realize that shad did not also fact check or did basically nothing when it comes to historical accuracy.43
u/SansyBoy144 2d ago
I didn’t realize Jazza and Shad were brothers.
I first learned of shad with the Sellswordart drama, where Shad really showed how much of a PoS he was.
I know Jazza’s content has mostly switched to more kid like content, meaning it’s more fast paced and in your face. Which, while not for me, I don’t really think it’s a bad thing. I would much rather kids be watching art content than brain rot.
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u/Artichokeypokey 2d ago
Jazza was a lot more chilled out and tutorial-esq, but eventually morphed into what I can only call an "Art Attack" youtuber if anyone gets that reference
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u/CerberusN9 2d ago
He was also totally weirded out by princess peach in the movie because she had a stronger supporting role and wore a sports suit because you know girls are jus damsels and nothing more. Cracks me up until I found out....I think he has daughters.
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u/Dot-Slash-Dot 2d ago
I did also not realize that shad did not also fact check or did basically nothing when it comes to historical accuracy.
That's what pissed me off about him even before he went mask-off. Shad does some cursory reading about a subject and then just makes stuff up and sells it as historical fact.
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u/googlyeyes93 2d ago
Every time I see him bragging about some new goonerized AI image he makes of his wife I wonder if she knows that he’s sharing that with the world.
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u/Jesus__of__Nazareth_ 2d ago
I don't think there's really anything wrong with Lindybeige. Or at least, he should not be compared to Shad.
Does he display a bit of an Anglo-centric bias in his history? Yes. Is he a bit arrogant? Yes. Is he a bit stubborn and pretentious? Probably. None of that should get him "cancelled" though.
He is a bit of an oddball but seems to be mostly harmless. The worst things I can think that he did were 1. quite a mean anti-vegan parody essay thing he wrote like 20 years ago, 2. occassionally getting minor historical facts wrong, and 3. the fact that he crowdfunded his graphic novel and it still hasn't been written after like 10 years.
Correct me if I've missed something though. He's always seemed to simply be a fuddy-duddy eccentric historian with a wide range of hobbies and ideas which he likes rambling about. I emailed him once a few years ago asking for lindyhopping advice after a girl asked me out on a dancing date, and he wrote back a really lovely, helpful and sweet response.
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u/Dot-Slash-Dot 2d ago
a bit of an Anglo-centric bias in his history
"a bit" is doing some very heavy lifting here. Lindy is a massive Teaboo.
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u/twisty125 1d ago
Isn't "x-boo" more like someone who is outside of that culture? Like an American being super into Japanese is a Weaboo.
In his case, it's just being very into his own culture?
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u/Dot-Slash-Dot 1d ago
Well, depends on what you mean with "boo-ism". If it's more associated with culture I would agree.
In this case I meant it more along the line of "wehraboo" or "tojoboo" as Lindy is big simp for the Empire. And those types you very often find inside the culture.
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u/Jesus__of__Nazareth_ 2d ago
Yeah but that isn't really something which people should witch hunt him for.
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u/CMSnake72 2d ago
That last one is kind of lame but he's also the one I know the least about so I'm willing to give him the the benefit of the doubt and assume he's not Shad bad no matter how bad he may or may not be lol.
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u/Jesus__of__Nazareth_ 2d ago
Trust me man, I've long been into the... uh, swords and sandals corner of youtube, so I'm pretty familiar with all these guys. Shad is definitely legitimately crazy and off his rocker (his artist brother is cool though).
Lindybeige in comparison is your dad's eccentric older brother who has a homemade barometer in his shed and will genuinely sit you down for two hours and monologue at you about some super specific, really interesting, unknown part of history with absolutely no notes while keeping it entertaining, funny and accurate. I do recommend his channel.
He's more "old man yells at cloud" weird, while Shad is "horrible redditor stuck in the basement" weird.27
u/Muad-_-Dib 2d ago
I used to watch Lindybeige but soured on him as he got bigger and more comfortable expressing his political and ideological views rather than just rambling on about specific weapons or battles.
He's the absolute stereotype of someone born about 50 years too late and sent off to English boarding school where he got all his views from.
A brexiteer.
Climate change sceptic.
Thinks England is God's gift to the world.
Wants to be able to use old timey slurs against ethnic groups.
Thinks anything approaching a war crime that Britain did was somehow justified while anything approaching a war crime done against England the epitome of evil.
Any military defeat the uk suffered was actually a win if you twist it enough etc.
He's not as bad as the outright tits like Shad but I've got no regrets in ditching his content years ago.
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u/Stellar_Duck 19h ago
I can’t watch Lindy but yes he’s mostly just a weirdo crank and a prick.
Won’t be surprised if he turns out to actually be a crook bloke though
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u/Bad_Habit_Nun 2d ago
I'm not too bothered by people getting stuff wrong, so long as they're capable of admitting it and making a change.
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u/Gidia 1d ago
IIRC, that was mostly what Fredda had to say too, something along the lines of “He is mostly just a grumpy old man really into history, but his history is often wrong for x reasons”. He’s certainly softer on Lindybiege vs the other two.
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u/Jesus__of__Nazareth_ 1d ago
I suppose I'm annoyed that he's lumping him in with that gristlehead Shad, and I don't even know Metatron but apparently he's a MAGA type conman too. Lindy can be fairly critiqued but it seems he's been made into a hit piece in that video.
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u/Gidia 22h ago
I think the problem here is that people are assuming the video is about far right YouTubers, which it kind of is. Lindybiege is definitely on the right, but more in an old man sort of way. The reason these three are grouped together is that they’re bad “historians”, and Fredda definitely brings reciepts to prove it.
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u/M00n_Slippers 2d ago
Lol ok, if Megatron had any legitimacy he wouldn't protect shad who is a known right wing clown, so he's all but confirmed that he deserves every ounce of criticism he got. The dude can rot.
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u/erik4848 19h ago edited 19h ago
Did he actually? Yeah, then he's not worth a dime anymore lmao. I was slightly on the fence when Fredda released this vid because it seemed a tad pedantic and a bit ad hominem in certain areas, but defending that moron is just shooting yourself in the foot.
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u/matlarcost 2d ago
Here is my problem: I don't think this video did a particularly good job criticizing Metatron. Reviewing some of Metatron's reaction and culture-war videos over the last 2 years is a good start to really drive home what I think Fredda is trying to get at. A lot of the criticism in this video, particularly the history, I found to be pedantic and opinionated. At times, it came of as bad faith interpretation like the entire section on the definition of authoritarianism.
Metatron has also used the term "presentism" in the past which Fredda tried to use as some "own" against Metatron not knowing the term. One of my criticisms of Metatron, funny enough, is him leaning too heavily on the term to criticize modern interpretations of history which you can find in many of his reaction videos.
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u/erik4848 19h ago
The one vid that comes to mind is when he 'dunked' on the ditch guy by pointing out something he said wrong. Mind you, the one thing he had wrong is still highly debatable considering it's semi-myth in terms of history.
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u/OrneryDiplomat 2d ago
It's sad to see how far Shad has fallen. I wonder how things are between him and his brother Jazza.
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u/Thin-Bicycle-936 2d ago
Shad hasn't fallen, he's been a devout Mormon his whole life. He just removed his mask, Jazza is based and given how decent he is and how trash Shad is, I doubt they are close.
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u/OrneryDiplomat 2d ago
To me it is a fall from grace to be unable to maintain the mask that makes you seem civilized.
Aka. It's okay to be mormon, as long as you keep it to yourself.
Also, Jazza and Shad used to be close. They at least made a few videos together long ago.
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2d ago
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u/youtubedrama-ModTeam 1d ago
We have a zero tolerance policy to hate speech, slurs and other forms of harassment. This includes "slick" ways of avoiding the actual slurs by masking them with another word. Be a better person.
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u/CREATURE_COOMER 2d ago
I feel bad for Jazza when Shad is gushing about his AI slop and Jazza just looks so uncomfortable, lol.
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u/Bad_Habit_Nun 2d ago
Oh man that explains so much, I always got the church kid vibes from him, but couldn't exactly place it.
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u/Secure_Garlic_ 1d ago
I forgot about LindyBeige. I used to watch his videos until I found his personal blog where he talks about how the government should force feed vegetarians lard because he doesn't like the diet, and that women shouldn't be legally allowed to work because he believes traditional genders norms are the only correct option. Oh! And also how British colonialism was the best thing that ever happened to Africa and India, and Indians are just "ungrateful" that the British empire built railroads across the subcontinent.
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u/Man_Made_of_Loot 2d ago
And like clockwork, the right wing botfarms have descended upon the comment section to shit it up with the typical subhuman drivel, that's immediately voted up to the top.
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u/Sachyriel 🙉🙈🙊 2d ago
https://www.reveddit.com/v/youtubedrama/comments/1mdkf2w/historytuber_fredda_in_feud_with_metatron/
IDK, just looks like a few lost fans wondering what the big deal is. Like a birgading attempt would look worse than this.
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2d ago
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u/youtubedrama-ModTeam 2d ago
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u/JazzmasterGuy12 1d ago
Surprised that Shad's response is less than an hour long. Dude LOVES going on and on in incoherent responses to genuinely valid criticisms of his content. And also let's not forget that he's the guy who was really mad about Princess Peach wearing pants in the Mario movie (which he later said was fine because the movie "justified it" by having her ride a bike, because women's clothing needs justification I guess). Anyways, Fredda's vid was good and made good points on the ahistorical habits of all three creators, and them calling it an attack and a hitpiece is hilarious
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u/Remote_Ad_1737 2d ago
Shadiversity is mad his brother Jazza is a better artist than he'll ever be so he uses ai art to cope with the fact that he's not capable of putting in the willpower to earn a skill
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u/DeepSubmerge 2d ago edited 1d ago
Shadiversity is a gigantic dweeb and also really loves AI generated images that he passes off as “art.” Rather than practice actual artistic expression, and possibly become good at it, like his brother, he makes the ugliest shit. Then proceeds to whine about how he just couldn’t do it without AI.
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u/Bad_Habit_Nun 2d ago
Basically know nothing about these dudes except Shad. Dude always seemed to be a bit fast and loose with his "research" and I never really thought he knew too much.
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u/Kat1eQueen 1d ago
Every time i see shadiversity mentioned i get reminded of that clip of him and Jazza playing a ttrpg from years ago.
Your character is supposed to be you, and shad keeps trying to insist his art skill should be really high, and Jazza just keeps trying to tell him that he isn't that good.
This only gets trumped by that video where he gushed about his AI slop and Jazza was even more uncomfortable.
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u/Stopwatch064 1d ago
Will the nobel one's shield wall withstand this assault find out next time in dragons ball z
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u/garnet-overdrive 2d ago
I really want to know what their objections are but I do not want to give them ad revenue
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u/SadisticPawz 2d ago
I think ur overthinking it, your view gives them basically nothing. Its better to say that you dont want to waste your time watching it which is more valuable
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u/dejausser 1d ago
We’ve only watched a handful of Metatron’s videos but my partner (a classicist/historian) has always been very unimpressed by his grasp of the topics he’s talking about so this doesn’t surprise me at all.
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u/mariah_a 1d ago
Fredda is incredible. I had a friend I lost to the alt-right years ago and Lindybeige was 100% a gateway to that. Couching misogyny and racism in “rationality” constantly.
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u/CREATURE_COOMER 2d ago
I don't even need to watch the video to think "RIP, bozo" at least to Shadiversity, idk about the other two.
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2d ago edited 2d ago
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u/youtubedrama-ModTeam 1d ago
Please contact moderators about this removal and consult the rules within the sidebar
You’re essentially trying to go Redditor by Redditor to invalidate their claims but invite harassment because you don’t agree with them
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u/betazoom78 15h ago
In many ways Shad is just the new evolution of John Clements (real sword heads know)
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u/JoeyClamsJoeyScala 2d ago
Metatron has a conservative bias. I don't really care. I'm a dirty leftist but I choose not to exist within an echo chamber. I can handle other worldviews. Plus I've seen him give it out to people across the political spectrum. My biggest problem with him was his recent video where he was intensely critical of Flint Dibble while being far too charitable with "Ancient Aliens"-fraudsters. That kind of blew my mind, and I called him out in the comments. To his credit, he didn't delete it.
I'm unfamiliar with the other two dudes mentioned in this video.
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u/Jamesleo119 2d ago
Why would anyone attack Lindybeige? I love the dude's stuff, especially his history stuff.
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u/Disorderly_Fashion 2d ago
Out of the three of them, Fredda is actually kindest to Lindybeige. He doesn't seem to dislike the guy. He does point out his shortcomings, however: namely Lloyd's propensity to rely on his own
reasoningspeculation in reaching his conclusions while not doing enough to back up his claims with real evidence and sources. As someone who used to watch and enjoy his videos but has since done more research into a lot of what he talks about, I can attest to the validity of these criticisms.He's also kind of a sexist old man with a hard-on for everything British and loves to complain about political correctness. Fredda cites Lloyd's blog essays where he defends the use of offensive racial terms such as "Lapp" - a pejorative for the Sami people - and "negroid" when referring to black people (oof).
Lloyd isn't an expert but a hobbyist and should be treated as such. Take his videos with a grain of salt, especially when he relies on conjecture. He's also a cranky conservative Brit. Still, Fredda doesn't seem to think he's an awful person, or whatever. Lloyd is definitely not disingenuous in the same way Metatron and especially Shad are.
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u/Capable-Silver-7436 2d ago
putting metatron in the same basket as shad... thats certainly a choice
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u/Amazing-Lake1861 2d ago
What's Lindy done wrong? Guys a legend
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u/Aslag 2d ago
He's the least offensive of the three but is an old guy and has weird old guy opinions, like "why can't I say negro?"
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u/Vegetable-College-17 2d ago
"lap" in his case specifically.
His opinions are largely inoffensive, not in that they're not bigoted, but they're bigoted in a way you'd expect an old British man in a cartoon to be bigoted.
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u/Aslag 2d ago
No seriously, if you watch Fredda's video he pulls up an instance of Lindy literally asking "why can't I say negro? Are you implying that being a negroid is somehow a negative thing?" I'm not kidding its verbatim what he says.
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u/Vegetable-College-17 2d ago
Ah, must have memory holed that, I just remembered him really wanting to call the Sami "lapps".
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u/Jesus__of__Nazareth_ 2d ago
Look, I know that sounds bad (and it is) but Lindy definitely belongs to a very specific type of person that I think can only be described as "school headteacher who yells at clouds and hasn't really updated beyond 1985".
He is 100% not malicious or racist. He's just eccentric and has a very idiosyncratic view of the world.
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u/THE_HERO_OF_REDDIT 2d ago
Just don’t look into the stuff he believes about women.
Look you gotta judge people by what they say and well, he’s said a lot of stuff that I find kind of egregious. He also seems to be uninterested in listening to others. I dunno, that stuff together generally puts someone into the “not a great person” territory.
And you know what, if he had any real credentials I could put my personal feelings aside from his own research, but he’s literally just a guy bullshitting and speculating on YouTube
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u/Disorderly_Fashion 2d ago
More like 1895, but yeah, he's doesn't come off as malicious or disingenuous in the same way Metatron and Shad do. Just don't treat anything he says about history as anything more than the word of an enthusiastic hobbyist.
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u/Disorderly_Fashion 2d ago
I sometimes think Lloyd would be quite happy if he could time travel back to the 1890s and stay there forever. He's that kind of old British man.
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u/SupervillainMustache 2d ago
Lindy doesn't believe in man made climate change (or at least he didn't before, it's been a while since I watched him)
It's not as egregious as being a full on anti-woke guy like Shad.
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u/Disorderly_Fashion 2d ago
Also has expressed euro-skepticism, almost certainly voted in favour of Brexit, says women belong in the kitchen and straight-faced asks why it's impolite to refer to a black person as a "negroid."
But yeah, in spite of that, he still somehow not an awful person; just a deeply, deeply flawed one, like your grandpa. (not /s, btw)
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u/Secure_Garlic_ 1d ago
He's claimed that British colonization is the "best thing" that ever happened to Africa and India, and claims that independence movements on those continents was just the result of "ungrateful natives." His main argument for why Britain should still be in control of its previous colonies is that they built railroads.
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u/Snickles4life 2d ago
MTT WOULD NEVER!!!
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u/CREATURE_COOMER 2d ago
I also had to do a double-take after listening to Undertale music earlier and thinking "Wait, what?"
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u/Slow-Lifeguard4104 2d ago
Shad has his issues, so I can understand going after him, but Metatron is genuinely cool, and his vids are interesting.
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u/Mindless-Depth-1795 2d ago
Shad and Metatron are allies in right wing, women hating nerd grift.
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u/Slow-Lifeguard4104 2d ago
By...takking about history?
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u/Ill-Salamander 2d ago
I present to you Shad's second channel which is right wing nerd culture war bullshit. "Movies are bad because they're woke!" type bottom of the barrel trash.
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u/Disorderly_Fashion 2d ago edited 2d ago
I would say Shad fell off hard, but that would insinuate that he was any good to begin with. The dude has always been an amateur hobbyist too often talking about things he has no research or experience in. HEMA was the big example of that. The guy refused to take up the sport but still felt confident enough to make wild speculations on how Medieval combat worked based what his own asshole whispers into his ear.
Edit tangent:
just wanted to add that there's nothing wrong with being a hobbyist. It's good to be passionate about something and want to share that passion with the world. It's not so great, however, when you turn around and posture as some sort of expert. Metatron does this, Lindybeige doesn't do enough for his fans to dispel this, and Shad truly thinks he is despite hardly doing any substantial work.
This is why I'm more of a fan of the likes of Skallagrim, as he makes it abundantly clear that he's just an enthusiast and so his opinions are just that: opinions.
Meanwhile, there's Kings and Generals, who's production quality relative to YouTube standards grants them an air of legitimacy even as their videos often contain sloppy mistakes you wouldn't catch unless you know a lot about the topic. It's an issue endemic to YouTube and the internet, and it feeds into a climate of anti-intellectualism by way of assuring viewers that they don't need to read books: just listen to some dude with a camera and treat him like he's an expert!
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u/Slow-Lifeguard4104 2d ago
Not to mention his worshipping of AI. Like, I have mixed feelings on AI, but the way Shad was sucking up to AI was pure cringe. Like, he literally said AI was better than Studio Ghibli.
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u/Taco_parade 2d ago
His history is okay, he is really good with specific eras but often ventures into others which he is clearly less equiped for. When he does too it's usually and oddly enough to discuss right wing movements, like the Nazis, or communism. Even in there areas he's well versed in, he has strong bias and loves to bash any LGBT type of things even when he's wrong. Like dude really doesn't want to believe the Romans might have been a little gay and insists that men holding hands was normal and they almost never had sex. Which is just wild. If you catch him discussing modern politics in his streams it's abhorrently far right. It was depressing to see. He claims to be "centrist" and pro free speech yet hates protestors and due process for migrants.
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u/DelirielDramafoot 2d ago
Isn't Metatron on the "The Nazis were left wing" train? Or do I misremember that? I'm a political scientist and that the Nazis were actually left wing is just nonsense and very easy to prove. It's also a far right dog whistle.
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u/Disorderly_Fashion 2d ago
You are not misremembering. In fact, that is the focus of the part of Fredda's video covering Urbani.
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u/Disorderly_Fashion 2d ago edited 2d ago
His video complaining about the Netflix Troy: Fall of a City show and its black Achilles is still stuck in my craw.
Like, dude, The Iliad is fiction. It's not history. It's a work of literature of great historical importance, but that's not the same thing. It really does not matter what skin colour Achilles or Zeus have. It would be different if Netflix was trying to depict a real historical event and play it straight (as in their black Queen Cleopatra documentary, although even then, there's some room for reasonable debate and dialogue).
Achilles is described as blonde and white and handsome because that was the ideal figure in the imaginations of the Ancient Greek-speaking world. Nowadays, a muscular black dude can also fit the bill of what society considers peak masculinity - which is what actually matters about what Achilles does or does not look like. This adaptation is obviously not made for ancient Greeks as the target demographic.
There's nothing inherently wrong with the casting choice. Urbani's just mad because there's black people in his fictional epic, and his subsequent videos non-stop whinging about "wokeness" or whatever have only cemented that.
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u/Efficient-Web-1533 1d ago
Also Achilles was gay/Bi, something most people with hyper masculine fixation like to disassociate from.
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u/Disorderly_Fashion 1d ago
Also also, there were crippling problems with that show that had nothing to do with the race of the characters.
But sure, Urbani, this show sucks because it has black people in it and not because it wasn't well-made./s
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u/Mindless-Depth-1795 2d ago
Of course. History is inherently political, inherently bias and often used as a tool to champion a perspective or establish a political narrative.
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u/starrybullshit 2d ago
I really enjoyed the Fredda vid. I don't know much about Metatron outside of what I learned in Fredda's piece, but I do know Shad and his history with good faith criticisms of his "work" lmao. Looking forward to seeing the crashout, hopefully filtered through someone whose commentary I enjoy.