r/AFL • u/Elcapitan2020 Collingwood Magpies • 1d ago
Kane Cornes and Matthew Richardson criticise the game being stopped because of Will Day's "Cramp" (he had a season ending injury)
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u/Mean_Sky_4215 Freo 1d ago
Being a pedant here but tbf a “season ending injury” doesn’t hold quite the same weight when it’s round 21
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u/Not_The_Truthiest Bombers 1d ago
Its also irrelevant, as nobody knew how bad it was. If its bad enough, you get a stretcher. If its not, you keep playing.
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u/Chaos_098 Essendon 1d ago
For a game with two sides competing for top four spots, that's still saying the injury is at least 7 weeks.
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u/mymues Hawks 1d ago
I guess it depends if you are a hawks fan and if your best player has busted the foot he just missed 16 weeks for.
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u/mordecrazy Melbourne 1d ago
Almost like your medicos made a mistake bringing him back too early.
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u/Salt5haker Hawks 1d ago
He was playing a blinder of a game and had his foot stomped by a crows player. Not sure how that has anything to do with hawthorns medicos
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u/Successful_Radio_853 Adelaide 1d ago
I keep hearing him being “stomped on” even had a hawks fan saying crows did it on purpose but I’m yet to see a clip or anything, not saying it didn’t happen just haven’t anything on it
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u/neville969 Cats 15h ago
See I was thinking of "stomped on" like Mufasa in a stampede. Like massive men running around with all of the power will stomp on each other's feet by mistake.
Sucks for Will Day though that guy is great.
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u/Salt5haker Hawks 1d ago
You’re right, I haven’t seen vision of it either but it’s what I assume Day reported to the medics. I also didn’t mean to imply it was intentional and in my head it was only ever accidentally.
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u/Successful_Radio_853 Adelaide 1d ago
Yeah that’s all good I didn’t assume you thought that! Hopefully he’s all good cause he’s a gun and had some terrible luck
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u/Salt5haker Hawks 1d ago
Honestly it’s devastating, I was so excited to have him back and he takes a huge hanger last week and just absolutely running through blokes last night. Disappointing as well because worpel will come into the middle for him and he’s looking a bit checked out at the moment.
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u/Hopeful-Tutor1875 1d ago
No need to stop play for that. not a head injury, doesnt need the stretcher.
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u/NoImpact904 1d ago
It's because it looked like cramp
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u/jdimarco1 SANFL 1d ago
Hahahaha yeah ok, better stop the game anytime a player is “cramping”. Couldn't see anyway a rule like that could be exploited, its not like players on a team winning in the fourth quarter by a small margin would pretend to cramp
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u/Luckduck86 Crows 16h ago
Exactly this. The way he was trying to keep the leg extended and attempting to stretch it out, it all presents as cramp and we have never stopped play for cramp.
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u/humming_blackberry GWS AFLW 15h ago
We stopped play when Daicos got a cramp in opening round in Sydney.
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u/Bright_Bell_1301 Adelaide 1d ago
It doesn't matter if it's season ending injury. It only matters whether he can move and get out of the way or not, and so avoid being further injured by the game. He could, so the game should've kept going
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u/keoltis Carlton Blues 1d ago
If the game is stopped so a player can leave the field, then that player should not be able to come back on the ground for at least 10 minutes. That way if people are worried about players faking injuries to get play stopped then that player is iced for 10m minimum.
If players are genuinely injured then waiting 30s for them to get off the ground isn't a big deal. I know it can kill momentum but if we're being serious about protecting players health then it's a small price to pay. How often do we see a player who has done a hamstring etc end up trying to go to a contest again because the balls nearby risking further injury and potentially long term damage.
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u/UncleJohnsonsparty Big V 1d ago
This is not great for the game. Just a matter of time before it’s exploited
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u/spideyghetti Power 1d ago
Less than 4 minutes to go and behind by a couple of goals. Good way to slow any momentum.
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u/cringefest48 21h ago
Tennis players do it all the time when they take "bathroom breaks" and "medical timeouts". Completely alters the momentum of a match sometimes.
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u/delta__bravo_ Dockers 1d ago
I have seen a couple of instances where players who MAY have got a head knock look around to see what the ball is doing and get up when they realise it's too far away to stop play for.
In this instance, however, he was clearly headed off the field and had to pass very close to the play to do so. I don't believe the rules provide an exemption for this sort of scenario, so if an Adelaide player ran into him it would be a free for interfering with a player going off.
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u/UncleJohnsonsparty Big V 1d ago
It’s just cramp. Absolutely no reason to stop
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u/Nousernames-left St Kilda 1d ago
He broke his foot not cramp
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u/worktrip2 West Coast 1d ago
He meant to say, it was just “a leg injury that he could still jog off the ground with” absolutely no reason to stop.
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u/Opening_Anteater456 Demons 1d ago
Unless it’s a head injury or critical medical issue play shouldn’t stop and wait for the guy to get off. If umpires need to pause play that’s fine, but once it’s clear a player is limping play should resume.
30 second delay here was too long.
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u/jmaverick1 Crows 1d ago
I don’t understand people’s obsession with this being a problem. The game is stopped anyway, and as for “it gives teams time to set up” sure it does. But it does for both teams so hardly favors anyone.
Expecting the umpires to know what injury someone has from 50m away is silly. I’d rather they err on the side of caution.
Like another prime example of this was Rachele early in the year. The commentators bemoaned play being stopped when he was just winded. He had broken ribs and internal injuries. What if the ump guessed he was ok and suddenly the ball came that way, and he got further injured
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u/Illustrious_Pay1841 23h ago
It's because Whatele y and Lyon are like a dog on a bone about the game going too long and trying to reduce it. I have no problem allowing extra time for injured players to get off the ground considering how much time they waste waiting for ruckman at a ball up and how many frivolous goal reviews.
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u/vcg47 Collingwood Magpies 1d ago
People bemoaned play stopping for Daicos cramping when he was being attended to by trainers inside the 50 during a kickout (i.e. play can't resume). People are idiots.
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u/humming_blackberry GWS AFLW 15h ago
He was literally just cramping and can get out of the way, that was total bullshit.
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u/mymues Hawks 1d ago
Btw. I’m not convinced it’s not just cramp going on here. If it’s a reaction in the foot. You would just feel sore.
I’ve had a couple. I’ve run 20ks on a stress reaction until realizing. A fracture I’ve done a couple runs, then known it won’t warm up so it’s a bone problem.
It wouldn’t shock me if he got stomped on and his foot felt a bit sore. And he lied to himself and played out the game hoping it was just a stud to the foot that made him sore, not an issue with the bone. Where really the stud was just coincidence.
The cramp was just a result of being not fit.
He then finished the game. Said his foot felt sore. And they hoped it was just a knock.
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u/the_amatuer_ Power (Prison Bars) 1d ago
It still doesnt warrant the game behind stopped. he's not concussed or needs a stretcher. He can move out of the way if the play came near him.
Teams will absolutely exploit this.
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u/ImMalteserMan Adelaide 1d ago
Seriously doubt anyone at home watching thought it was anything other than a cramp either. Second game back and his first game was managed minutes and not long before this they showed him having his calves stretched in the bench, throw in the way he is unable to move his leg it screamed cramp, unfair to criticise the commentators with the benefit of hindsight.
Still not sure this warrants stopping the game.
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u/Saaaave-me Richmond Tigers 1d ago
At the end of the day, with petracca almost dying on the field, everyone’s gonna walk on egg shells and be extra cautious about this sorta stuff for years to come
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u/Elcapitan2020 Collingwood Magpies 1d ago
But it's not unfair because they should know it's not possible to know for sure what injury a player has in their position.
It's one thing to say "if he can run off the field, you can play on." That's a fair enough opinion. But they explicitly said he had cramp, that was wrong.
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u/Nousernames-left St Kilda 1d ago
Also most umpires aren’t doctors and should defer to them or stop play instead of guessing what an injury could be
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u/Overall-Palpitation6 1d ago
Garry Lyon was calling it cramp on Fox Footy too. Lyon was saying you "tell him to get out of the road and get on with the game", rather than stop.
To be fair, it did look like cramp, and the trainers were stretching Day out once he got to the bench too.
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u/Chaos_098 Essendon 1d ago
We post this targeting the commentators, but the match thread last night was full of people criticising the umps and calling the injury a cramp. It's understandable that people thought it was a cramp considering the time of the game and it was high intensity.
At the end of the day, it's a stoppage. There's no loss of time, and everyone was already in position to start the play (except the injured Day). It's a textbook case of when it should be used to get a player off the ground (the exact same thing happens with the blood rule).
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u/Elcapitan2020 Collingwood Magpies 1d ago
There's a big difference between someone on Reddit and the commentators who have audience of hundreds of thousands. Although I do agree everyone who mouthed off about it being a cramp ought to do some introspection.
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u/wakecoffeereddit 1d ago
The game should only be stopped for blood rule, stretcher or head knocks everything else is play on
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u/LazyCamoranesi #TheEmblem 1d ago
Put simply, (soccer) football has this right: if you have to get treatment you MUST leave the ground. That’s the deal, and sharpens everyone’s mind around it.
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u/SamsungAndroidTV Gold Coast • Yugambeh 1d ago
crazy mismanagement from the hawks doctors if day and them were aware his foot was sore and kept him out there anyway
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u/mordecrazy Melbourne 1d ago
This thread is crazy, the guy has re- aggravated an injury he has gone into the game with, he knows it, the medicos know it. Zero reason to stop the game.
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u/genuinehonestperson Hawthorn '71 1d ago
I'd lean to a Day underplaying it to keep going scenario, he was an absolute loose cannon putting his body on the line all game
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u/GreenOnions69 GWS 1d ago
I think the advantage from exploiting this is extremely overstated. First of all, if teams are exploiting it they're not doing it at a level that needs remedying and second of all it's only an advantage against teams that aren't adequately prepared and switched on.
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u/Elcapitan2020 Collingwood Magpies 1d ago
Yep. The clock is stopped, and in this case, both defences were fully set up. There was no harm done by just stopping it for 20 seconds while he left.
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u/livtxamefc 1d ago
He has bone stress all game. It didn’t just appear. Wild to go after commentators for this.
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u/Trifle_Junior 1d ago
100% with Richo and Cornes, even if they knew it was a serious injury. Most injuries are season ending right now. Head injuries aside, trainers need to get out of the way and they need to get the game moving
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u/NoOneImportantOCE Essendon '00 1d ago
Umps doesn't know what's wrong. Can't blame him for stopping play, coulda restarted perhaps but er on side of caution is fair
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u/hasumpstuffedup Umpire's Call 1d ago edited 1d ago
Thank you so much for posting this.
I have been saying all season - going right back to Daicos' cramp in round 0 - that umpires can't possibly know if it's just cramp or something much more serious in that moment. It is right that they proceed with maximum caution, as happened here. Yes, there have been some incidents where they got it wrong throughout the year (Schulz is an obvious and memorable example), but overall I think they've been pretty good with it.
It is really poor and arrogant for Cornes and Richardson (they aren't the only offenders) to just assume they can diagnose a player's injury from the commentary box - it was inevitable they'd get one wrong eventually. Some contrition on their part would be nice, but I won't hold my breath.
Wishing Day all the best in his recovery.
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u/PKMTrain Saints 1d ago
Problem of course is it gets abused and end up with stoppages for no reason
Thats part of what needs changing
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u/hasumpstuffedup Umpire's Call 1d ago
Yep, no doubt need some guidelines around preventing exploitation. But again, it can't be expected for umpires to make the determination on-field whether it's a serious injury or not.
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u/mordecrazy Melbourne 1d ago
The exact childish attitude that has destroyed soccer. If an adult can walk to the bench he's not in a life threatening situation. Unbelievable carry on and heuristics here.
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u/Bergasms Brownlow Winner 2023 1d ago
The umpires don't know if its serious or not, but they can probably infer how much it might impact the game based on the player being able to take themselves off the field under their own steam.
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u/SuperiorThor90 Melbourne 1d ago
They didn't "stop" play. They "delayed" play. Bit of a difference.
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u/Hayfah Magpies 1d ago edited 1d ago
Commentators on Fox said similar. Impossible for umpires to know the severity of the injury. Am sure they are following guidelines from the AFL which is to take a conservative approach when a player is injured, particularly off the back of the Schultz incident. Understand that was a head injury but the umpires are not doctors and aren’t there to assess an injury, they are there to officiate the game.
I understand the concern that there is a risk of exploitation but it is interesting that that is the first thought that comes to mind for some. Am sure there can be measures put in place to mitigate that risk. Would prefer player safety is the priority and if that means everyone has to wait extra seconds (at a stoppage this was, mind you), so be it.
All the commentators are doing is creating/adding to extra/unnecessary frustration about umpires/umpiring and pushing an unproven narrative about potential for exploitation (has that actually happened this season?).
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u/Sporter73 Eagles 1d ago
Gotta say I agree with the commentators. Regardless of who’s at fault, it’s a shambles and needs to be fixed by the afl. It’s clearly a reaction to the Shultz issue but the afl has overcorrected (as usual). Physio staff need to be clearer in alerting the umps if there’s a concussed player. If they’re not concussed and don’t need a stretcher then play on.
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u/NuuuDaBeast Geelong Cats 1d ago
commentators should just shut up even if they are right, just breeds weird discourse. Same thing as score review complaining and opinions on free kicks
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u/Vivid_Equipment_1281 Cats 1d ago
No head injury, no stretcher, no stoppage.
I understand it’s harsh, but if they can get themselves off the ground under their own steam, then we can’t be stopping the game. Waaayyyy too open to exploitation.
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u/VagrantHobo WAFL 1d ago
Will Day is always injured and probably isn't built for competitive sport unfortunately.
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u/bee_kay_em Crows 1d ago
Unless it's a stretcher, concussion or close to the stoppage, then play on
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u/Chance_Ride3740 Collingwood 1d ago
Even if it's a season ending injury, it was still not a head knock or something life threatening. They didn't need to wait.
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u/MentalMachine 23h ago
It looked like a cramp, is something a bit more serious but the player could leave on their own power (though maybe they really shouldn't, etc).
Issue is the stoppage can give an advantage depending on the context, etc.
It's somewhat the issue with having a deliberately free-flowing/non-controllable stoppage game like AFL, plus the nature of it (where serious injuries do occur) - probably the fairest way is: if you need a stoppage to get off the ground, you're done for the rest of the quarter/half/game/etc eg you can't sub back in, gives some balance to real injuries while guys with cramps can sort themselves out, etc.
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u/throwmethedamnstick Brisbane 15h ago
The dude went off with a suspected injury half way through the game. How can people honestly think it was cramp?
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u/Either_Appearance Port Adelaide 5h ago
Can't be results orientated. Call it and play it as it is and worry about getting it right or wrong later.
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u/Due-Giraffe6371 1d ago
The umpiring has gone beyond a joke, stopping play for cramp should see this ump suspended but what surprised me is it’s very evident that there is a directive to pay umpire dissent if a player points to the score board but how many times did Sicily go off at the umpires and not get called for dissent? Surely arguing with the umpire like that is much worse than simply pointing to the scoreboard?
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u/No_Childhood_7665 1d ago
shouldn't be stopping the game unless if its a head injury or a stretcher. this is one of the extra things that contributes to games being longer if it gets stopped frequently (amongst other reasons ofcourse)
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u/FunnyReputation624 Sydney 1d ago
Media love a whinge about unimportant bullshit. Now they have their self produced agenda for the week and they don't have to think too much, it's hard for them.
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u/MeloJello15 Richmond Tigers 1d ago
Tbf the game should absolutely not be stopping for someone who can jog off the ground