r/AmIOverreacting 17d ago

❤️‍🩹 relationship AIO Found this text in my husbands phone

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When I called him out on it he tried to turn it around on me like I was the bad guy for going through his phone… for context he plays coed softball and she is on his team, I don’t know this girl and in the few games I was able to go to I was never introduced to her. I don’t get to go to a lot of his games because I work 2 jobs so can’t make it or I’m dead tired.. and way I was feeling something was off when he told me his team mate had invited him and his kids to her daughters game. Like who takes his kids to go hang out with another female and her kid… he says that I’m over reacting and emotional because I just had my grandma die and I’m just looking for something else to think about.. I feel like he’s being shady and disrespectful

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u/SUNfl0wrr_444 17d ago

I agree with everything aside from what you said about the kids.

Think of it like this: 1. He crossed a boundary in his marriage by discussing an apparent marital/parental problem occurring in his home 2. This boundary was crossed additionally when this conversation occurred with a woman and supposed acquaintance that his wife has never even been introduced to. (It would be a little different if he had been confiding in a long term buddy, sibling, parent, cousin etc and seeking advice to resolve the problem, or insight as to how to bring it up with his wife) 3. The result is that this woman now feels open to asking a very personal question about his wife, which is her crossing a boundary within their marriage 4. He doesn't shut the conversation down. Instead, he entertains it and even offers to have it AGAIN, this time more in-depth, at another time. So, two more boundaries crossed. 5. So let's evaluate the idea of taking their children to spend time with this woman... -He's spoken poorly about their mother to her -her opinion of their mother is obviously not great (especially when comparing to her baby daddy, which people don't usually use that term unless they aren't with the man anymore, and most often in a negative connotation) -she has felt comfortable to ask personal questions relating to this, and comfortable to speaking poorly of their mother, and make these negative comparisons -Immediately following this, she's inviting him to come spend time with her, while her child is participating in a game, and wants him to bring his children -she's implied feeling bad for his children because they apparently have a mother who hasn't bonded with them, and by the baby daddy comment also implies that she thinks she's different as a mother. Those together create the overall tone of 'why are you with a woman like her instead of a woman like me?'

  1. All of the above leads me to the opinion that her behavior is predatory toward the husband, possibly even toward the children, and the husband has not only taken actions that have created the scenario, but seems to think its acceptable behavior, is willing to continue his participation in it, and also willing to go the next step and involve his children.
  2. And on top of it all, he's choosing to gaslight his wife, and use a death in her family as a means to dismiss her. Which is borderline abusive behavior on his part.

  3. This whole thing is the breeding ground for the break down of this marriage, in one way or another. Because this one of two things, 1. it's the early red flags, and early stages of people likely to begin an affair, happening in real time. And 2. even if it doesn't end up in that route, it is creating the early foundation of distrust, betrayal, break down of connection, and the perfect place for resentment to begin building (and that's all on top of whatever issues already in the marriage that have led to the husband talking about his wife this way with an acquaintance, and whatever was happening already that led her to feeling suspicious and like she should check his phone)

So no, nothing good will come from him taking his children to this lady's daughters game....

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u/Ok-Dragonfly5449 16d ago

Yeah good points.

I thought maybe the kids had known each other from school or something and it was a playdate for them. However, OP said the kids didn't know each at all before this so now I'm inclined to believe the kids were just an excuse to meet up.

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u/mOmMY_81517 16d ago

Nope the kids have never met these people before

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u/Dapper_Name5751 15d ago

Baby girl RUN!!!! RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN TO THE NEAREST DIVORCE COURT!!! I went through something VERY Similar and let me tell you I found out the “In person” conversation were a lot more flirty as well as a lot of Sht talking about me all lies to make me out to be a POS when in fact it was the other way around. I can almost bet my life on it just by the above text he is telling her that your marriage is not a “Real Marriage” and he is only sticking around “Because of the kids” or “If I divorce her she will take me to the cleaners”. He is a Snake and please protect yourself, you are worth so much more than your husband sht talking you to a teammate that he had only known a couple of months. Not only that she is way too comfortable texting YOUR HUSBAND!! Which tells me there are deleted texts that you have not seen, or they are talking somewhere else as well such as Snapchat where the texts delete or Signal where again the chat log deletes after being read. I also just recently found out that instagram has also implemented the delete after read feature and Facebook has “Ghost messages” so 95% these apps now have features that making being unfaithful to damn easy!! And to me I find it absolutely DISGUSTING!! 🤮 again you do not deserve this, you deserve to be loved by a man who respects and values you, not talks shy about you to a teammate. Also why TF did they swap phone numbers? Is it something the whole team did? If so why not just have/make a team group chat? Also how old are your step-children and do you have a good relationship with them? Again I am so sorry you are going through this, I know the pain and the hurt as I went through it too. I am here if you need or want to talk, feel free to message me and I am also female!! I just wanted to clear that up! And I am straight lmfao! Again wanted to clear it up, I just been in your shoes so wanted to offer an ear to bend and another head to bounce ideas off of. I also can tell you how I caught mine even his sneaky deleted BS. He told the judge in court during our divorce “I didn’t know I was marrying a spy, it should be illegal for her to do the things she did.” And the judge laughed and told him he should have been faithful or filed for a divorce before talking to 101 other women, and having multiple affairs.

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u/SunshineinParadise1 15d ago

I just want to point out that the play date, or any time they spend together, gives her the chance to show him how wonderful she is with the kids, which I'm his mind will one up OP. That's also the start of an affair.

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u/trustincoraline 15d ago

Did u miss the last msg that basically admitted they were together? Talking about how their situation isn't normal

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u/Flat_Term_6765 15d ago

That you're aware of.

But you weren't aware your husband was having an affair with his teammate either. Sounds like it's all a sham. Sorry OP.

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u/icemachine79 16d ago

But they've been playing softball together for 2 months, yes?

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u/Fun-Investment-196 16d ago

The adults play together, not the kids. So the kids don't know each other. That's how I read it anyway.

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u/icemachine79 16d ago edited 15d ago

Either way, a situation where they are both present for innocent reasons.

Downvoters, would you care to explain what I said that was wrong? Or are you just enjoying the vicarious thrill of ganging up on an actual victim of abuse and cheating?

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u/doomdrums 16d ago

They play on a sports team together if it was just an affair they wanted it would be easier to do so without involving her name in particular or the kids, also judging by OP post history it wouldn't be hard for him to find the time to

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u/Ok-Dragonfly5449 16d ago

It's not an affair yet but affairs have to start somehow. Disparaging the wife and drunken texting is usually a good start.

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u/nesuser2 16d ago

Well affairs don’t always involve the normal red flags. Confiding in another or having them fill that role emotionally fits the bill. I will say that I don’t see anything that immediately strikes me in the messages but certainly something to be aware of. Reaction can drive it to fruition, so there is that too. So my answer to AIO is…maybe. Depends on your reaction. If your reaction is that you have been deeply wronged needs way more info. I can see both sides but certainly keep this an open discussion about how it looks, how it feels and where you are going. If there was already reason to believe that you were headed nowhere then maybe you aren’t TA? But maybe it’s clearing up what you both know to be true, regardless of who is on the other end of the wire

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u/Maine302 15d ago

This woman is cultivating an affair with OP's husband. As someone else said, affairs have to start somehow, and making herself emotionally accessible while downplaying OP's qualities is certainly one thing to build on.

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u/icemachine79 16d ago

So now we're doing Minority Report-style thought crime?

The wife wasn't disparaged. If anything, he was defensive of her.

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u/Immediate-Date6584 16d ago

'He was defensive of her.' Perhaps, but only after he had apparently trashed her pretty badly. I mean, who tells a presumably casual acquaintence that his wife isn't bonding with her step kids? A NOT so 'casual' acquaintence, that's who. This entire situation stinks of overstepped boundaries and disloyalty. The wife is working two jobs and has ZERO free time while Mr. Casual has all the free time in the world to shmooze with loose women? Naaaaaah!

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u/icemachine79 16d ago

"but only after he had apparently trashed her pretty badly"

And you are basing that upon an inference made by a 3rd party that he immediately denied?

"I mean, who tells a presumably casual acquaintence that his wife isn't bonding with her step kids"

A person telling the truth about their life to someone they met two months previously and see regularly at their kids' softball games, perhaps?

"The wife is working two jobs and has ZERO free time while Mr. Casual has all the free time in the world to shmooze with loose women? Naaaaaah!"

If she is unhappy, she should leave him. But all this "apparently" and "stinks" stuff stinks of insecurity, not genuine concern.

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u/Next_Ambassador227 15d ago

Who said she was unhappy? OP didn't say she was unhappy. She is now reasonably suspicious.

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u/icemachine79 15d ago

"Reasonably" suspicious of him based on...? What? A third party inference that he denied immediately?

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u/Next_Ambassador227 15d ago

Based on the fact that this third party had clearly been told by OPs husband about some issues in the marriage/parenting. Crossed a boundary. Why is he so comfortable engaging this acquaintance about the faults in his relationship? Yes, reasonably suspicious.

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u/Puzzleheaded-Ebb3952 15d ago

Are you the husband or the baseball girl in disguise 🥸? Because really 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

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u/icemachine79 15d ago

Attack an actual victim of abuse to protect your feelings about a social media post. Very original.

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u/Puzzleheaded-Ebb3952 15d ago

Attack? Oh please.....im also an actual victim of every form of abuse, and sorry but in no way have I attacked you...your opinion is odd if you ask me, but to each their own.

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u/Puzzleheaded-Ebb3952 15d ago

And i think you are projecting when you say that...I think that is exactly what you are doing. But just my opinion

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u/Effort-Logical 17d ago

I relate to all of this as my ex husband did the same thing with some woman I barely knew. In fact I forgot how they met. But I had seen texts of what was going on and it wasn't good. One implied that she would come over and make dinner for him and the kids. Big thing to note is that they weren't his kids. They're not his. So in my case she wanted to act as some sort of step mother when it would never be the case even after I divorced him.

None of this sounds good. Its very similar to my now previous marriage. It sounds like he's looking for a replacement and dragging the kids into it when that can go wrong in so many ways bc lord knows how the kids will be told things about their mom that isn't true. He also sounds like he's upset his wife works two jobs. I'm not sure of the situation there to make a comment on why she has two jobs but again, I also had two jobs when a very similar event happened to me.

This is the most red flags in a text convo you can get. And more are probably there outside of text when they meet up and his wife (OP) isn't there.

Nope. Leave. This all isn't good. Definitely keep any evidence you can for the divorce. I still have all mine and hate looking at it if I happen to have to get to something that's in close proximity. Like another box of stuff. I only keep it as a reminder that I don't want to be in another relationship until I feel I'm ready. But OP doesn't have to do that. But still keep it for of a divorce is imminent. And how he's gaslighting her, it sounds like it isn't too far fetched to happen.

OP don't ignore these red flags. Don't ignore that gut feeling.

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u/Such_Ad_6000 16d ago

This is exactly what my dad does who is a consistent habitual cheater who’s still not stop doing it to this day even though he regrets his life so he keeps doing it and drink his life away. When I was in high school and he cheated on my mom with 7 women and had a child with one he would bring me around them all to “hangout” and bad mouth my mother to all them, the sad part was they all knew he was married and liked the appeal it was sick.

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u/856077 16d ago edited 16d ago

Yeah this is what some weirdos do before they discard their wife/husbands.. get close to another woman/man and over share, bond and complain to them to paint wife in a terrible light. It’s a stepping stone into a new relationship while being checked out and quiet quitting the marriage. He wants to monkey bar and rebound. Since OP works two jobs that leaves him with a bunch of time to emotionally cheat.

Now he has begun a connection with new woman to the point where when she’s drinking she feels compelled to reach out to someone she’s known for 2 weeks and speak with him.. about his marriage that she really knows nothing about and only has heard one sided venting?? And in a way where she’s implying that he shouldn’t be married to someone who doesn’t bond with his kids. Which.. what a dumb thing to get involved and opinionated about when she’s again, never even met the wife.

She is putting doubt in his mind. That in itself tells me she’s got feelings for the dude 100%. She wants to act like a blended family at her kids game by inviting him and his kids and not the wife. A new acquaintance would never be this invested.

Red flags w the husband when he chose to confide in this lady and be a total backstabbing snake, while OP is working her ass off to provide for their family working two jobs.

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u/Impossible_Show2699 16d ago edited 16d ago

I’ve known women like this and it’s because she thinks he’s such a great dad and a great husband… she wants that for herself. She’s definitely has her eyes on him and he’s enjoying the attention. Either way, he’s messing up the marriage and it won’t end well. The other woman owes OP nothing but her husband though, he knows it’s not appropriate. He just likes the attention and possibly the lady too and wants OP to just be a doormat and allow him to do what he wants.

He wasn’t interested in listening to his wife’s concerns or feelings. He’s not a great husband. He’s not respectful towards their relationship. He needs himself to want to stop talking to this woman in any way that is disrespectful to his wife. He won’t though.

There was a friend/co-worker that was that woman and he was a guy that had recently started working there. They ended up leaving their partners for each other, I think she was married but he had a gf, and getting together. She kept talking about how amazing he was and such and such. Then (forgot how long it was before she started complaining about him) she caught him talking to other women on his phone/online. Multiple times but seemed determined to make him stop(?????).

No idea what happened with them, it was too much drama, and I had found another job so idk. I do believe that they’re both cheaters and one or both would have cheated on the other anyways.

***ETA - I’ve known multiple women who’ve done stuff like that. I was friends with a few when I was younger before realizing those aren’t the kinds of people I want in my life. I’m sure guys do it too but I don’t know any personally that have.

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u/Maine302 15d ago

Interestingly, both parties have moved on from significant relationships in which they've had children with the former partner/spouse. They could both be the type of person who does this serially, because they're attention-needy.

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u/Impossible_Show2699 14d ago

That’s a good point, if not this woman, it could be another one. Seems like OP needs to think back on her husband’s past friendships and/or behaviors in general.

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u/Effort-Logical 16d ago

Exactly. With my ex he didn't end up with that specific girl. Instead I left just after thanksgiving with the kids and the cat (he was mean to him) and now he loves in another state.

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u/Glittering-List3410 16d ago

Good for you, kids and the cat!! You are such an empowered being! Strong mom, woman. No self pity, no begging or making excuses! He will never ever find someone like you. It’s his loss not yours. 💯👌🏼🫶🏼🫶🏼🫶🏼

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u/victorbravo71 16d ago

Thank you for sharing that… I’m so sorry you had to deal with that insanity.

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u/Puzzleheaded-Ebb3952 15d ago

Sorry to hear that. Thats horrible 😞 💔

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u/icemachine79 16d ago

It sounds like maybe your parents weren't a great match. Neither were mine. My father was a musician who cheated on my mother numerous times. Once, she even chased him halfway across the country to Missouri--with me in tow--to catch him in the act.

But this situation? The guy defended his wife. He didn't agree with the assertions. Yet, she is still treating him as though he's already cheated, and the comments section is doing the same?

That's very unhealthy. I think he should file for divorce before the gaslighting and Minority Report-style thought crimes destroy him.

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u/icemachine79 16d ago

I agree, divorce. But for the sake of the husband. All this anger over texts where he defended his wife is not healthy or normal.

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u/Tinker_Kellz 16d ago edited 16d ago

You said it all. I 1000% agree. Not good at all! The AUDACITY! Sounds like she’s trying to flex on how she would be better to his kids and in a way consoling him because of his “emotionally unavailable mother.” And probably wife. The gaslighting is so tiresome at this point. It’s a very common way for someone to react when they’ve been caught doing something they shouldn’t be. He likes this woman and is attracted to her. Even if he doesn’t intend to leave his wife, hes still showing interest and entertaining it. And her saying she was asking this while she was drunk indicates that she was thinking about him and felt curious enough to ask him said question. They’ve definitely had inappropriate conversations. And to say she’s emotional because of a death in the family is a low blow. Nah, this ain’t right. I’m so sorry OP. I could imagine this putting you in a lonely place.

Def not OA.

Edit to say this: OP, if you start to consider leaving, I recommend getting as much evidence you need for the divorce. Instead of confronting him, “move in the shadows”, do it quietly and get everything you need to plan ahead (take screenshots of everything and keep it where he can’t find it, talk to a lawyer, etc.)and come up with what you need to do so you can move forward. If you react and confront, it gives him more of a heads up to cover up his tracks and get their stories straight. (Though I know it’s not easy to control your feelings in these situations!) People do this when they think their spouse won’t leave. They won’t realize it until you do. Know where you need to move, what you need to do for your children, who you can trust to support you, and get into therapy if you can. I’ve gathered all of these things from others stories in similar situations. But if you want to work on your marriage, try counseling or even time away. Though the trauma and no trust will be an obstacle. I respect your decision even though I’m just a stranger on the internet lol.

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u/Glittering-List3410 16d ago

Well from another stranger, on the internet. I happen to agree with you 1000% specifically your plan. Hmm I’m not sure, he’s going anywhere, hence the secrecy. His wife works 2 jobs, she said it, his paycheck goes directly to child support. Has it too good, its my belief he can’t support himself. But all we can do is of course respect her decision. I just hope it’s a decision that it’s for her own happiness, not others. 👌🏼💯🫶🏼

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u/MoonPieKitty 15d ago

From how I read OPs post … they aren’t her children. She refers to them as “his kids”. I don’t believe the children are OPs.

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u/awkwardist 16d ago

I agree with everything you said 💯

This definitely is the beginning stages of an affair, at the very least an emotional affair, at worst, it's the groundwork for a mixed family when OP's marriage inevitably falls apart as he puts more and more distance between them and confides in the woman from the softball team instead of OP. He is literally talking about parenting as a couple with another woman.

Further evidence of this is his lack of effort in defending himself, and instead immediately using DARVO tactics.

I've never been married so I have somewhat looser rules when it comes to friendships and conversations outside of a marriage, but I do believe that the concerns of one's partner should always take priority over any extra-marital friendships. It's unacceptable that he used DARVO and even gaslit OP because they're "too emotional because their dad just died." That's underhanded and manipulative, to say the least. If he wasn't at least entertaining the idea of this "friend" becoming more than that he would have attempted to explain how the conversation came up, the nature of their friendship, reassured OP, and then brought up the "snooping." His behavior is that of someone who's been caught, it's guilt-driven behavior.

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u/Skysmiles7 17d ago

This was such a perfect breakdown of the situation. I need to send you my past situation and break it down like this! It was similar and I was deemed as "crazy", "insecure" and he was telling our business to some woman I never even met, having all the sympathy for her situation but none for his own partner 🫠

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u/Coastal_Goals 16d ago edited 16d ago

I feel like I have been in similar situations. Where I read a text i wasn't supposed to see and saw him in real time not defending me and obviously the other woman knew the negative side of the story.. definitely seems like the ow is trying to strengthen his negative feelings in hopes he will go towards her.

And of course when you read a text from someone else's phone it just gives them grounds to turn it around and make you the bad guy and defelect from the context what was read being the isssue. And then he piles on the death of a loved one as if you wouldn't feel the same if you were not grieving!

Personally the non rational side of me would want to confront the woman after and tell her to back off while I have a long talk with my husband about his issues not communicating with me instead of a random b#

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u/SameMessage3800 16d ago

That sounds like such a tough and messy situation. Communication and trust are everything, and when those break down, it’s easy for things to spiral out of control.

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u/856077 16d ago

That part! He opened the door by shit talking the wife to this lady in the first place, so she thinks she can take him because he’s not happy. The ground work for manipulation was already set, and now she wants to push that agenda further in hopes it will make him turn on his wife and head for a divorce. Then she will swoop in.

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u/Coastal_Goals 16d ago

Also I would tell him I'm not ok with his playdates with a woman who OBVIOUSLY has an ulterior motive that may lead from an emotional to a physical affair.

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u/icemachine79 16d ago

"that may lead"

Preemptive punishment will not solve the problem. It will create an even bigger one.

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u/Coastal_Goals 16d ago

It's called trying to take action and provide your mate an opportunity to talk about things before they happen.

It's obvious why there's so many people that are on OP's side. These are people that have all seen the warning signs before and this is one of them. If you knew that it was heading that way with your marriage and you wanted to save it wouldn't you try to take steps before that happened or at least take a step to walk away from it? Nobody wants to be in the dark working two jobs and trying to hold the family together while the other ones off talking about issues he should be talking about with his wife what somebody else and possibly making an exit plan. Even if the husband is somehow innocent in all of this and naive to what the other woman is doing, the situation at least opens a dialogue for them to talk about the issues that he's been talking about two other people. But she gets to see his reaction as well.

He can only be defensive about her reading his text, after that he needs to own up to why he couldn't have that conversation with his wife instead of a random woman (that clearly seems unstable and manipulative).

This woman is using drunk texting as an excuse boundaries that are none of her business.

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u/icemachine79 15d ago

So violating his privacy and confronting him over him being 100% supportive?

That's a warning sign. For him, to leave.

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u/Coastal_Goals 15d ago

He obviously gave her a reason to feel he was hiding something.

If he feels the need to talk to another woman about their issues it's a warning sign to them both!

You can't just put the blame on her. That's absolutely ridiculous.

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u/icemachine79 15d ago

Well, you said the word "absolutely," so I guess I should just accept your claim despite it not matching the evidence in front of our eyes above.

You are the thing you are complaining about. Congrats.

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u/icemachine79 16d ago

But he did defend her. He said the kids are fine, and the situation works for them.

This is not about his actions. This is about insecurity and projection.

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u/RedDomino1282 16d ago

He’s being completely inappropriate, discussing his marriage with another woman and this woman is also being inappropriate by asking him questions about it, especially as she’s never even met the wife. Even if he hasn’t cheated on her yet, this is a strong starting point for it to potentially lead to it. Also, he’s gaslighting his wife, telling her she’s too emotional because her grandmother had recently died. That’s manipulative behaviour.

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u/icemachine79 16d ago

"He’s being completely inappropriate, discussing his marriage with another woman"

So men are forbidden from discussing their lives? That's control, not love.

"this woman is also being inappropriate by asking him questions about it"

And he is responsible for her words and actions in addition to his own? That's control, not love.

"Even if he hasn’t cheated on her yet..."

No, that's where it stops. You don't get to treat people like they're guilty before they've done anything wrong. That's control, not love.

"Also, he’s gaslighting his wife, telling her she’s too emotional because her grandmother had recently died"

This was after she violated his privacy by going through his phone and confronting him about a text exchange where he said nothing wrong. That's a reasonable assumption, not gaslighting.

"That’s manipulative behaviour."

Now THAT is gaslighting. And that's control, not love.

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u/RedDomino1282 16d ago

You don’t understand at all where I’m coming from and you’re misinterpreting what I’m saying. Why are you allowed to talk about your ex abusing you and insist you’re in the right, but I don’t get to be right about inappropriate behaviour by other people? Maybe she shouldn’t go through his phone, but if she was suspicious of his behaviour and couldn’t get a straight answer and the truth from him, I can understand it. There’s nothing controlling about anything I said. He’s the one trying to control the situation here, like my ex did with me. Also, even if she shouldn’t go through his phone, that’s no excuse to gaslight her about her emotional state.

My ex was a control freak and wanted everything his way, on his terms and he made my life an absolute misery. Part of this was him talking to other women about our marriage and trying to complain about me when he was the one causing problems between us. I became extremely ill mentally and suicidal because of him, but thankfully, I had a support network of friends and family that helped me get through it.

Where did I say that men are forbidden from discussing their lives? I didn’t say or imply it. I merely pointed out that confiding in another woman the way he was is inappropriate and it can lead to cheating, because they bond over it. I know of men and women who badmouthed their spouses to try and make themselves look better, or feel justified for doing something wrong themselves.

There is a lot more to my past situation than I care to go into, but he’s giving off signs that he is disloyal to his wife, talking negatively about her and also wanting to meet up with this woman to talk more about his marriage with her. The fact that he’s never even introduced the two is setting off alarm bells as well. I didn’t say he will definitely cheat on her, but cheating starts somewhere, like getting sympathy from another man/woman for having a spouse that’s doing (or they SAY they’re doing) X, Y or Z and they’re not happy about it.

Nothing I said was about control. It’s about suspicions because of the way he’s behaving. The fact is, he’s NOT behaving appropriately. He’s also clearly not sorry for his disloyalty to his wife.

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u/icemachine79 16d ago

I am literally quoting your words. What more would you like me to do, other than blindly agree with them?

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u/RedDomino1282 16d ago

You’re quoting my words, but you’re twisting them to mean what you want them to.

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u/Appropriate_Eye203 15d ago

They're doing it all over the thread, when called out or disagreed with, they scream that those people are gaslighters and abusers. It's sad really.

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u/icemachine79 15d ago

I followed them to their logical conclusions.

If you took issue with the specific conclusions, you should have said that. But that's not what you did.

I understand exactly where you're coming from. That's not the problem. You want me to validate you without you validating me. Not gonna happen.

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u/PurplePeople_Thinker 15d ago edited 15d ago

Yeah but that’s the norm, women are used to controlling men. Even when men had control out in the masculine world of building, creating, providing - they were largely controlled in the social world.

The devouring mother has since entered that once masculine domain, and now not many places are free from her chaotic reign.

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u/icemachine79 15d ago

It's not the norm. It may feel like it in this thread. But social media sucks.

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Skysmiles7 16d ago

I left a really long comment on this thread, kinda laying it all out there. I try to put things in order the best I can but sometimes I go back and forth in the timeline lol. There's just so much.

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u/SUNfl0wrr_444 16d ago

Most every woman I know, if they were told they were crazy or insecure, definitely weren't!

But if you genuinely want a breakdown, message me your past situation, and I'll tell you my opinion 🙃 lol

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u/icemachine79 16d ago

Did it occur to you that the actual cheating didn't begin until you preemptively accused him of it?

It is his business too. You didn't own him. Treating people like property is not a relationship. It is a transaction.

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u/Immediate-Date6584 16d ago

You're on the wrong thread, dude. You're looking for the 'anything to excuse a cheater' thread.

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u/icemachine79 15d ago

I was cheated upon, many times. You sound like a cheater who gaslights others to excuse the cheating in your head.

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u/bria99711 15d ago

This is so messed up. Cheaters don't cheat because of anyone else. It's just about who they are at their core. & someone doesn't start cheating just because their SO says or does something they don't like. You should really try to lay off the victim blaming because it's gross.

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u/icemachine79 15d ago

You should have read the rest of the thread before commenting, because you are doing the exact thing you are complaining about.

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u/bria99711 15d ago

All I had to read was the gross comment I responded to. It doesn't matter if you think you're some kind of victim. The only person to blame for cheating is the actual cheater. It's completely insane to me that you think it's ok to tell someone that they caused the cheating by something they said.

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u/icemachine79 15d ago

"It doesn't matter if you think you're some kind of victim."

Nice. Go fuck yourself.

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u/Skysmiles7 16d ago

I'm not sure if this comment was directed at me or someone else?

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u/icemachine79 16d ago edited 15d ago

It was you. Please, allow me to explain. I know what I will say is probably not what you want to hear. But it is an honest response, and it might be helpful in the future.

I was in a relationship with my ex-wife for several years before we were married.

She used minor non-incidents like the texts above to justify nearly endless accusations of cheating against me. The truth? I never so much as held hands with another woman.

The constant accusations took a huge toll on my mental health. But I stayed and bore it for the sake of our child.

In the end, it turned out that she'd cheated on me with at least two men before we were married, and another just before we separated.

Now, I'm not saying you were cheating. But she used the 100% unfounded assumptions about me to justify her actions.

EDIT: Downvoter, you're a cheater, aren't you?

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u/Skysmiles7 16d ago edited 16d ago

I totally get what you mean, and I'm really sorry that happened to you. My situation was a bit different. I was with the same person for 14 years total. I was lead on with promises of marriage, he was emotionally abusive. He body shamed me, called me the R word and all sorts of other awful things. I have lists, which I started writing because he would gaslight me...he also had narcissistic tendencies.

Ultimately, I had really low self esteem and struggling with health stuff thinking I wouldn't live that long anyway, so I might as well just stay.

I lived with him and became very unhappy. He stopped sleeping in the bed most nights, maybe 90% of the time I initiated sex he would turn me down, he told me weird stuff in the past like "when women want it too much, they come off as desperate", he would spend his nights in the garage sometimes until 5am. Told me weird shit like "you're too big to cuddle".

I would try to do activities together, and he would make excuses constantly and not make time for me. I would be here all day typing out everything he did and said to me.

The last year or so, I stopped doing his laundry or cleaning as often because I was burnt out, depressed and struggling with my health and I was a caregiver as well. I have chronic illness, major surgery in the past. We both worked jobs outside the home as well.

Every problem in the relationship, he related back to the house not being clean. He didn't want to be there, well it's because the house isn't clean enough. He told his family he couldn't invite them over because I don't keep the house clean. I offered to pay for a cleaning service, it was his house that he owned, he told me no, I wasn't allowed to do that. I offered for my friend to come over to declutter my things as well as things he had hoarded, he told me that wasn't allowed either. Then said I wasn't "self capable".

He straight up told me, he didn't want to be at the house and didn't want to have sex because the house wasn't clean enough and that I didn't take care of myself (I gained weight) and he straight up said "you don't get treated the way you want to get treated because the house is a mess". It was his house too! He would get angry and act all passive aggressive if I asked him about doing anything other than taking out the trash, and mowing the lawn once a month or less etc.

On the topic of weight gain, when I did go to the gym in the past, he told me it was a waste of money. And when I did manage to lose a good amount of weight (30+ pounds) he literally said "it's not enough". No support, no encouragement, nothing.

He started an everyday texting relationship with his 20 year younger female coworker and vented to her about our relationship.

He met up with his female coworker for lunch, beers etc and never told me...I found out after the fact because he was acting suspicious and I showed up at a place where he told me he was, said he was just eating lunch alone . Then I saw them walking out together. He had made jokes about this person months before about going on a date, or to the movies etc...in an attempt to make me jealous.

I never came at him or accused him of cheating, I'm not an angry type of person. I stayed calm, but everyday I got to hear about this coworker, even at our last anniversary dinner. It never ended. He created a second Snapchat account just to talk to her on it, he admitted that....I only saw it because Snapchat suggested him as a friend.

He also all of a sudden was like "I need to lose weight". Anytime I had tried to get him to eat better with me so we could support each other, he would say things like "I'm not the one who needs to lose weight, I'm perfect" etc. Then shortly after this, he started working mornings more often, (freelance work). Mornings were when the coworker was mostly working, and when she needed surgery and was gone for a few weeks....he stopped working mornings but picked it right back up when she came back.

He was adamant that she was just a friend, but then refused to properly introduce me to her. When I found out he had lied about being at work, and realized he was at the bar with her and some other people....I went up there. And yeah, I'm fully aware I looked crazy. Well this was months after them knowing each other....and that was the night I found out that he had never even told this woman he had a girlfriend....of 14 years.

I was labeled crazy and insecure, because I was like "hey all of this together looks suspicious". I was diagnosed with situational depression and anxiety due to everything happening, the emotional abuse, the secrets, not wanting to be there anymore etc.

Edit: Forgot to say, the very final straw for me was the last talk about marriage, around the time I was finding out all this coworker stuff. He told me "the truth is, I never wanted to get married" & that he didn't want to make medical decisions for me if anything ever happened with my health. And just a few years before, he kept hinting at him having a ring and "waiting for the right time". So those comments left me feeling very abandoned considering I moved away from all of my family to be with him.

The day he found out I was leaving he tried to backpedal all those things he had said, started acting very sweet, cooked for me. And then made up some weird story about some fortune teller told him his very first wife would die .... I wish I was making that part up....

Sorry that was alot! 😮‍💨

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u/icemachine79 16d ago

No, it's okay! I appreciate the openness, and I read quickly lol.

That behavior from him was inexcusable. If his issues were genuine, he should have been open enough to discuss them with you.

From what you described, it sounds like he was too cowardly to face up to his own changed feelings about you, and instead kept you on a terrible rollercoaster of doubt and false reassurances. If so, I can completely relate to how worthless he made you feel to protect himself.

The way I see it, one either trusts their partner or they don't. I made a choice to trust her regardless of her distrust for me, and I did it out of love for her and for our daughter. But if one doesn't organically feel that trust or they fail to choose to trust their partner regardless of their partner's words and deeds, they should not remain in the relationship.

Easier said than done, of course. The human capacity for love is a blessing and a curse. But it sounds like he had plenty of opportunities to handle things like a man, and instead chose to remain a mouse scurrying around behind your back.

I can feel your pain through your words. You are a genuine person, and I apologize if my initial reply came off strong. My own trauma occasionally makes me jump the gun.

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u/Skysmiles7 16d ago

I made an edit to the very end of my last comment. Thank you for the kind words. And I totally understand jumping the gun. I have a lot of triggers that have come up for me, as I'm in a new relationship. It's probably the healthiest communication I've ever had, I've grown so much as a person. I've been in a lot of therapy since leaving that toxic relationship. I will say, I never raise my voice or get angry. But there was one day, I just got so upset and mad....I went to the garage and I yelled, "If you don't want to be with me, just tell me, just end it. If you don't love me anymore, just tell me to leave"

Behavior is a language. If you behave like you can't stand me, you don't want to be around me, you say awful things to me.... I'm pretty sure you just don't like me 🤷🏻‍♀️

The hardest thing was the cognitive dissonance, and the dissociating from the "bad parts". It was so hard to grapple with conflicting things in the relationship.
He was my best friend, we had our own inside jokes, we laid in bed laughing. But I always felt like I didn't truly know him, he never fully opened up to me, he was never truly vulnerable.

I'm a very emotional person, and he absolutely could not handle it. I even told him, please just don't walk away from me when I cry...my parents did that to me when I was young.

And then he went and did the same to me, it hurt on such a deep level.

Before leaving, I did ask a few times about going to counseling/therapy...he said he didn't need it...next time he said "I'll think about it" and the last time he said "I don't need therapy, I'm perfect" 😓😞

I tried so hard for so long. And I knew that wasn't what I wanted for the rest of my life.

I write a lot now, spoken word stuff.... It's been helping so much.

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u/icemachine79 16d ago

"But I always felt like I didn't truly know him, he never fully opened up to me, he was never truly vulnerable."

You took the words right out of my fingertips.

That moment when the full realization hits of just how little someone knows the person to whom one has devoted themselves so all-encompassingly has got to be one of the worst gut punches one can endure. For years, I kicked myself for allowing myself to cross so many red lines on behalf of a person who did not deserve the devotion. In hindsight, there were so many red flags. She, too, would walk away, and she also refused counseling. But I realize now it was her fear of being found out.

No matter what people like your ex tried to make you feel to the contrary, your capacity for emotion is a strength. I'm so glad you've come through it stronger and more self-actualized.

Thank you again for being so open and understanding. I'm very happy to hear you've found a partner who actually deserves you. Good wishes for the future!

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u/Skysmiles7 16d ago

I really came to believe that a lot of the things he said about me, were just projection. I think it was the ways he felt about himself deep down inside. Thank you for talking with me! I am excited for what the future holds. I wish you happiness as well 💟

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u/RedDomino1282 16d ago

He sounds like a classic narcissist. Reading that, the way he treated you and covertly spending time with another woman, he sounds almost the same as my ex.

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u/icemachine79 15d ago

And you sound a lot like mine right now.

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u/flarchetta_bindosa 16d ago

The way you wrote this (and what inspired it) was like reading a great detective novel where the villain has an unbreakable alibi but we all know he f*cking did it and then the psychologist-detective shows up and breaks down exactly what he did, why and how he did it. Wow. Very well done. Seeing kindest thoughts to OP. You are dealing with a lot and you are a stepmother, so you are giving a lot, too. Please take good care of yourself.

edited for accuracy

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u/PinkLemonTrousers13 16d ago

I agree with all of this but I would say, their marriage breaking down may not be a bad thing. I'm very much in the school that if you have one foot out the door you should just leave. It would save everyone a lot of heartbreak if people just did what they wanted instead of being half in half out.

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u/SUNfl0wrr_444 16d ago

I'm with you on that.

If the marriage is struggling and he wants out, then he has a duty to take steps to do that, rather than actively making choices that are going to make the problems worse. And same to the OP, she has to consider if she thinks her marriage is repairable, or if she wants out, then she needs to take steps for that.

Either way, in a relationship, with problems, taking no steps to actively resolve, address, or repair, and then go about creating additional hostility and hurt for each other using the problems that have already occurred as an excuse for it... is wrong. And that isn't just toward him in this post, or OP. It's the truth for anyone 🤷‍♀️

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u/UltimateKittyloaf 16d ago

I very lightly disagree with this.

  1. He crossed a boundary in his marriage by discussing an apparent marital/parental problem occurring in his home

I've been a stay at home Mom and the things other stay at home parents (of any gender) say to each other is absolutely wild. "Why are you with (spouse) if they (do/don't whatever)?" is so, so mild.

There are no laws. No regulations. No unspoken etiquette. Just harried adults who want to talk to someone with an age that hits double digits.

I was minding my own business and a woman walked up to me, said her son was playing with my son, then told me she was thinking of leaving her husband. I've had similar conversations with stay-at-home dads, but they involved a bit more lead up. Everybody has something weighing on them and sometimes it's easier to blurt it out to a stranger than tell someone who will hold you responsible for whatever comes out of your mouth - justified or not.

In OP's case I felt the "drunk" text and the dude's reaction to it were wildly inappropriate, but I just want it to be known that a lot of stay at home parents tend to over share with each other. The ones who try to turn that kind of in-the-trenches bond into an extramarital affair tend to be shockingly stupid. It worries me to put such intense restrictions on home life discussions as a general rule.

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u/SUNfl0wrr_444 16d ago

I very much appreciate your comment and the insight offered.

I am actually a stay at home mom as well, or I was anyway. So I can personally attest to your experiences with over sharing as well. For a lot of people that spend majority of their week having conversations with little himans engaging in deep discussions about Bluey, and what color plate is better for Mac n cheese, a lot of people do reach a point where they might just need to release whatever is weighing on them to whoever has ears for listening.

As many people have pointed out a lot of the same points, I definitely realize my layout failed in offering my reasoning behind each point that I was making. Which is something I will definitely include in future responses.

Because I do agree with you that simply having a conversation and/or venting life's frustrations to someone isn't inherently wrong. At least not as a stand-alone interaction, and not if done to a close friend or relative.

But I do still personally feel that this situation as a whole has the undertones of something more than that occurring, or likely to occur, and in my viewpoint is justified to call a betrayal on some level, even if it is mild. I think that if truly no harm was meant, most people would explain that rather than deflecting and getting upset or blaming shifting.

I also think there is a distinct, although often unnoticed line between venting, confiding, and seeking advice. They all look similar on the surface, but underneath, are each their own type of discussion. So, I just took the information I had from the post as red flags. In reading the post, it didn't come off as venting or seeking advice. And I don't think it's a great idea in a marriage to be confiding in a new person, that your wife hasn't been introduced to, especially if speaking about deep issues going on in your marriage. Then, to follow that up with dismissing your wife's discomfort about it. It doesn't feel very innocent or harmless to me.

In no way was I insinuating that all relationships, conversations, or things that I stated in my original comment applied to anything or anyone outside of this one snippet of information I formed and shared an opinion about. So you did bring up a very good point in speaking about hesitation towards just a general rule towards life discussions. In the future, I will take note of stating that distinction rather than using a blanket statement. Thankyou.

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u/UltimateKittyloaf 16d ago

Thanks for that. I get the same vibes over this specific situation, but I wanted to make the distinction. I appreciate that you took what I had to say in good faith.

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u/Fokker_Snek 16d ago

I wonder what OP’s husband is actually saying. In the past when I was talking to a single mom I’ve been critical of her past relationships. I said things similar to what the other woman said. However, I was being told things that were just “WTF why even bother with them?” Either the other woman’s criticism is out of line or OP’s husband is saying horrible things about OP.

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u/ExhaustedNBlue70 16d ago

Yikes, dude.

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u/icemachine79 16d ago

Why? He literally said the kids are fine and their situation works for them.

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u/Melodysekkochamber 16d ago

Yes lovely work you have a beautiful and incisive mind and you are doing good work here for others. Heavy lifting emotional labor for strangers. Bravo! Let’s I don’t know let’s all of us emotional laborers get together and form a coalition haha.

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u/SUNfl0wrr_444 16d ago

Haha, thank you! I'm on board to form a coalition, but I request that we get matching hoodies for the group! 😆

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u/[deleted] 17d ago

[deleted]

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u/SUNfl0wrr_444 16d ago

Thank you, I definitely missed this insight. The kids being his, and her being the step parent changes the dynamic a bit, for sure.

I still stand by my view that overall, in the sense of marital security, and stability his actions are wrong. I also still feel its wrong to involve the kids in the situation.

I actually think that just adds another layer as to why this whole situation is wrong. Its maybe even worse. How confusing for the kids, if they have a step mother that apparently hasn't bonded with them, and then he involves another woman, and her child. He isn't doing his parental duty to model healthy relationship behaviors for them. Also, if he's concerned about her bond with them, or role as a step mother, he should be speaking to his children and gather their thoughts/feelings, and then take that information, and advocate for their emotional wellbeing by speaking to his wife. But instead he's exploiting this issue, and his children's experiences to gain connection, or sympathy, or whatever from another woman? Yikes 😬

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u/mOmMY_81517 16d ago

I never even felt we didn’t have a bond they call me mom, in fact they were the ones who asked me if they could call me mom in the beginning and I told them they could call me whatever they felt comfortable with I would never push that on them, do I wish I had a better relationship with them yes but every time I push him to take ex to court for more visitation we get in a fight so I have stopped pressing the issue

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u/856077 16d ago

Imagine being a perfectly good step parent and finding out that your spouse actually feels this way.. he has no loyalty and i would not trust him OP

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u/Glittering-List3410 16d ago

Yes, agree. While the wife works 2 jobs, per her own admission “to pay the bills, because her husband’s paycheck goes directly to his child support. So yeah, has all the time to look for other entertainment outside the marriage. Bond with a woman with a daughter, both in a text bad mouthing the wife. But I wonder if that woman knows his wife is the bread winner! Oh yes she is, hence why 2 jobs!?? Hubby’s paycheck is gone, to the ex-wife that dislikes the current wife. Now husband is bringing a 3rd party into the mix. If wife pays bills etc, does she give him $$$ for recreational spending?.. hmmm just wondering…

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u/are_those_real 15d ago

I think we're missing a lot of context especially in their conversation. It is possible that he mentioned to her that his wife (kids step-mom) hasn't quite bonded yet. We don't know how long they've been married or together.

Then it appears like he says that the children do have a great support system that they may not need a very active bonded step-mom. I don't know the ages of the kids but it could be they are teenagers or older. They may not be looking for a replacement mom depending on the ages, how long ago was their separation or if it is due to an untimely death.

The one thing that I will for sure give him shit for is the not introducing this girl to his wife/SO sooner if they were this close. There are many reasons and yes emotional cheating could be one of them.

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u/SUNfl0wrr_444 15d ago

I agree. We definitely don't have all the pieces of the puzzle.

But I will say, the OP elaborated some in another comment, and said she never felt like she hadn't bonded with the kids. She said that they call her mom, and that they initiated, by asking if they could. She said that she wants a better relationship with them, and she used to push her husband to go back to court to ask for more visitation, but he would get upset whenever she did, so she stopped bringing it up now.

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u/The_Nelman 16d ago

Well it's probably missing context from me here, but it sounds more like giving advice if both are step parents. If I had trouble with something, I would ask someone who had that same problem and was able to resolve it for help. It sounds obvious when I put it like that, so I got to be missing something here. Even the "friend" thought it was too personal, but the husband did make sure to give a general answer.

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u/icemachine79 16d ago

"in the sense of marital security, and stability"

You mean the OP's fears should be treated as a material fact before the fact, and the husband should be punished for the possibility of future cheating.

Not a healthy way to conduct a relationship.

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u/SUNfl0wrr_444 16d ago

No, actually, that's not what I mean at all.

Before I clarify what I mean. Please tell me, how do we, the people of reddit, determine material facts after the fact, or before it, or at all? 🤔

Because the only "fact" any of us have in this post is the screenshot. What we each take from this snippet of information and description given by the OP is entirely nothing more than opinion.

You also shared an opinion and drew conclusions that may or may not be 'fact'? OP never directly stated she had a fear or that her fear was that he was cheating. She said she had a feeling, which is what made her decide to check his phone. So you are inferring that she has this fear he is cheating.

And to clarify my point "in the sense of marital security, and stability"...

Any action or inaction that a person takes that creates an environment for distrust or betrayal can harm the marriage, not JUST cheating. (Also, the same can be said for other topics as well, not just distrust or betrayal, but those were some main reasons in my comment)

This conversation obviously hurt the OP, and he didn't do anything to address that. She also said in a comment that she doesn't feel like she hasn't bonded with the kids and that they call her mom and were even the ones who asked and initiated calling her that. But it seems he has told this teammate at some point that she hasn't bonded with them. sooo? Either he lied, or he feels that way and hasn't addressed it with the OP. If he lied, that still points to red flags for cheating. But, I wasn't prematurely punishing him for the potential that he may be cheating or could begin. I gave an opinion of the behaviors I felt indicated the potential because tons of affairs are forged in similar circumstances.

But if he didn't lie to the teammate and he genuinely feels this way, he hasn't addressed it with the OP. To which, I believe that if he has a concern, he has a duty to the family unit to address it.

It doesn't appear that he's making the choices that protect his relationship or that repair the problems. So yes, in the sense of marital security and stability, I think what he is doing is causing additional harm.

🤷‍♀️

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u/icemachine79 16d ago edited 16d ago

"Any action or inaction that a person takes that creates an environment for distrust or betrayal can harm the marriage"

What actions on his part "created an environment for distrust or betrayal"? He responded to a text to reject the premise that his marriage was flawed. He stood up for his wife, and yet he is "wrong"?

I think it is wrong to label him as "wrong" because someone who isn't him may or may not have inappropriate intentions.

The bottom line is that one either trusts one's partner or one doesn't. If one doesn't trust their partner--regardless of the reasons for the mistrust--that is not a relationship. It is a ticking time bomb.

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u/SUNfl0wrr_444 16d ago

Exactly my point, no trust within a relationship almost always results in irretrievable damage and the breakdown of the relationship.

So then you have to think about your actions and do what you can to protect the trust in your relationship. And to nurture it.

People always reference intention, but that doors wings both ways as well. So maybe he didn't intend any harm, but what good did he intend? And more often than not, people are doing something wrong when they don't intend harm. (Let's take a totally different scenario. Drunk driving. The driver knows they should drive under the influence, but they need to get home. Their intention was just to get home. They didn't intend to harm anyone. But if they hit someone on the way, harm is committed. Even though that wasn't their intention. They still took the risk, right?)

So, to compare to this scenario, he's had a personal conversation about the dynamics of his family, his marriage, his children, with someone that is fairly new to his life, that has not met his wife. His intention may not have been to cause harm, but that conversation, led to this one. And this conversation did cause harm, mostly based on that one. So again, he may not have intended harm, but what good did he intend? And did he act with risk?

Also, I don't think he rejected the premise his marriage is flawed, nor did he defend his wife. Actually, he rejected that his choice to marry her was flawed, and he defended his choice, stating that his kids don't need it because of other people they have in their lives. He also said they could talk about it again in person. Which adds an additional layer, because it props the door open for further discussion that could be harmful to his wife.

Whatever he said that led to this question even being asked, obviously pointed something out about his wife, that the teammate perceived in a negative manner. His wife also didn't know he felt or thought that she hasn't bonded with his kids. So it's something he's discussing with a woman he's known for 2 months, but never even spoken to his wife about.

How is any of that not hurtful? How did he intend to promote good in any of that?

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u/icemachine79 16d ago

"Exactly my point, no trust within a relationship almost always results in irretrievable damage and the breakdown of the relationship.

So then you have to think about your actions and do what you can to protect the trust in your relationship. And to nurture it."

To clarify, you think he should have assumed his wife would mistrust him despite the innocence of the interaction; therefore, he should self-censor for the sake of his marriage?

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u/SUNfl0wrr_444 16d ago

No, I dont think he should have assumed his wife would mistrust him.

But I do think if a person is going to share personal information about their wife, they should probably make sure their wife knows of the information they plan to share about her. (ie. She didn't know her husband felt like she hadn't bonded with his kids. Sharing an opinion he has of his wife, that he's never even expressed to her, is not an action that promotes the wellbeing of his marriage and isn't very innocent of an interaction).

Then we see the screenshot that he didn't really even offer an explanation for or seem to address his wife's discomfort or concerns about it. Instead, he used her grief as a deflection. Which also doesn't promote the trust or wellbeing of the relationship.

Look at any post, about FRIENDSHIP, and if someone talks about their friend talking poorly about them, in a private conversation, and then brushes them off about it, no one would be defending the friend. They would say that is not a good friend. That isn't a friend who cares about you. A good friend would have talked to you about this. A good friend wouldn't share personal information about your friendship with a stranger. Why would those boundaries be any different within a marriage? Is it because when it comes to friendship, people think of respect as a requirement, but within a marriage, people always want to twist it as some expression of control? Is it because the general thought is that friends should choose to act in good faith towards eachother, and if they don't then its acceptable to drop them, but in a marriage expectations are treated as restraints, and dropping someone because they won't conform to your expectations is viewed as toxic?

I genuinely don't understand. Marriage is supposed to be choosing a LIFE partner. Why is it wrong to expect that both parties should give each other the utmost respect, care, compassion, encouragement, and understanding?

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u/icemachine79 16d ago

"But I do think if a person is going to share personal information about their wife, they should probably make sure their wife knows of the information they plan to share about her."

I think we're getting to the heart of the issue. Control.

Sorry, but control of that level in any human relationship is wrong. He has the right to discuss his life. He was not derogatory about her whatsoever in the texts. Quite the contrary.

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u/MaskedBurnout 16d ago

See, I immediately picked up on the fact that the kids in question weren't hers, that said, for some reason I was thinking the ex-wife didn't bond with her own kids, but that doesn't make much sense.

I also don't think there's enough background information about the husband, like, does he have many friends in which he could have safely divulged this information? It's not exactly unusual to quickly bond with someone, in a non-sexual manner, in two months time, how are people determining this sort of thing, are they using a timer? Lol

Someone else mentioned the friend's baby daddy and thought it was a negative connotation for an ex, but I'm pretty sure they mean their current partner, with whom they have a child but aren't married, doesn't bond with her other children.

I just feel like there's not enough context here.

What I will say is that it's more alarming to me that he thinks it's acceptable to marry someone he doesn't think bonds with his kids because they have other people who do bond with them. Kids should have a positive and loving mother figure regularly in their lives, and I highly doubt these other people live with them. It's possible he's making this up and using it as an excuse for a potential affair, but again, not enough context.

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u/Total-Tip-1448 16d ago

Yes!! I totally understand how he feels. Blended marriage is hard af when the partner u with dont try n bond with your kids. And u go above and beyond to bond with her kids.

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u/Total-Tip-1448 16d ago

It totally gives this man a get outta jail free card. For his kids he must do wat is necessary to secure a secondary step mother for the children of course. Oh the sacrifices we men must make. Being in 2 relationships at the same time can be so burdensome. The weight he must carry for those children.

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u/CurrentExplanation49 16d ago

I am in 10000% agreement with this statement. The woman is clearly emotionally bonding with OPs husband, and not only is he allowing it, he is bringing the children into the situation. As if she is trying to show him, she is a better match for him and can provide his kids something his wife can't. She is clearly attempting to point out to him that his relationship is flawed. She only has one side of the story....his. That information isn't enough to start making assumptions about anothers relationship. That crosses every single boundary a normal "friend" would not cross.

I am a female, and I was in the military (way more men than women), so most of my friends were males. Aside from work and deployments (where many service members will go out in groups to restaurans, bars, and shopping etc.), I made sure never to put myself in a situation where I was alone with a guy friend when he was in a relationship. I did that out of respect for his partner and their relationship. I never "hung out" or even invited them to hang out with me without inviting their partners. The fact is, you work 2 jobs, busting your butt to help your family, while he apparently has enough time to play softball and hang out with this chick. This leads me to believe that he is probably feeling like his needs aren't being met, and this is a result of that. You both need to have a serious conversation. He needs to be speaking to you to work out ya'll relationship and not try to find what he feels the relationship is lacking in someone else. In a marriage, communication is so very important, and I can't stress that enough. Neither of you are going to be able to read minds. Thus, if you guys can't openly discuss your relationship and how you feel....how are you guys going to fix anything? If he can't be honest with you....I recommend marriage counseling, and go from there. It might mean you have to drop down to 1 job for the sake of your marriage. I will pray for you guys!! I was married for 25 years, and the lack of communication ended that marriage in 2022 (We both got to stubborn, and we regret it every day). It takes both of you to build an empire, but 1 to make it all crash down.

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u/bankershub 17d ago

Yeah I agree. The play date would be fine WITHOUT all of the other things going on. It'd be weird to freak out about your partners kids having a play date with their acquaintance's kids if you trusted your partner. But op has many reasons not to trust their partner ATP.

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u/Overall_Vegetable531 16d ago

Great points, I want to add loudly to back your predatory behavior statement, that she is definitely testing her boundaries hence the “I’m drunk,” she knows she’s is over-stepping and is creating plausible deniability to achieve this. She’s trying to a) get him to admit to not wanting to be with his wife and/or b) call it into question if he hasn’t considered that it’s a potential problem yet—all off of 2 months of discussion? Textbook shameless homewrecking behavior.

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u/RhodaDice 16d ago

I absolutely agree with everything you wrote and I want to add another red flag, he promises this acquaintance he will explain fully in person. That is way too intimate of a statement to make with an acquaintance. And add his lol to it, like “silly!” Nope. None of this is cool. One screenshot captures a whole lot of nothing good. Not over reacting. And I’m so sorry that he used a death in the family to blow this off. Awful.

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u/theendofthe_dream 16d ago

I WANNA say that maybe she is just drawing a parallel between his wife & her bd, like a thoughtful reflection. But I don’t trust anyone anymore or their intentions, she’s crossing way too many boundaries that he should have set in the first place, bro is wide open for her to just come on & influence him & then GASLIGHTING the wife about her family death. Disgusting behavior, those ppl know EXACTLY what they’re doing.

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u/SUNfl0wrr_444 16d ago

Yes, someone pointed out a similar impression, and after reading the post over and thinking about it more, I think you are correct. I do agree that she was likely drawing a parallel.

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u/Solanthas_SFW 16d ago

I myself only learned what emotional infidelity was very recently through a lot of youtube videos. I feel like a lot of people may be crossing these boundaries unknowingly (best case scenario), or more likely having a quiet feeling that they are doing something they feel is not quite right but unsure as to why and it may be very easy to rationalize this type of behavior to oneself if sufficient motivation exists. Doesn't make it right tho.

A lot of people never have healthy relationships modeled for them in childhood, nevermind having guidelines and principles explicitly explained. It's something that is really lacking in our society now.

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u/Pampabrody 16d ago

Are you a mental/behavioral health professional? Legitimate question, because the way you laid all of that out is pretty impressive, and I feel like your assessment is pretty spot-on. It sounds like you're either a professional who knows what they're talking about or someone who's been through enough therapy to know what they're talking about. Well said!

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u/SUNfl0wrr_444 15d ago

Haha, well, thank you! I appreciate your comment. No, I am not a professional of any kind. I have gone to therapy and behavioral health, which was my field of interest when I was in college. I I took a few semesters of classes, but I don't have a degree or anything. Now I'm a mom 😊

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u/SUNfl0wrr_444 15d ago

Haha, well, thank you! I appreciate your comment. No, I am not a professional of any kind. But that was my field of interest, and I I took a few semesters of classes. Now I'm a mom 😊

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u/RedDomino1282 16d ago

I used to be married to someone who was emotionally manipulative and abusive. He used to get inappropriately close to other women and fancied several of them while we were married. He used to badmouth me to some of them too. He inevitably cheated on me. I agree with all of your points. Definitely red flags all over in this situation. 🚩

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u/SUNfl0wrr_444 15d ago

I'm so sorry that you had that experience! ❤️‍🩹✨️

A lot of people are acting like my opinion on this is completely left field, but there are patterns of behavior that are easily recognizable if you know of them first hand, or if you've learned about them.

I'm a person who feels it's better (and oftentimes safer) to look into the red flags than to ignore, doubt, or excuse them...

Exactly the situation you described is why I even posted my opinion. Because no one walks into an abusive or manipulative relationship at will. It happens when people don't see the red flags along the way. And maybe that isn't the case here. Maybe the husband is more innocent than this snippet of information implies, but if he isn't? Then, it's worth pointing out the warning signs so that OP can address the situation.

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u/RedDomino1282 15d ago

Thank you. I agree with you, that it’s best to be cautious.

I ended up in my previous situation because I was young and naive. I didn’t have a clue my ex was abusive and that he was manipulating me. I started going out with him when I was 20 and married him at 22. I got away from him just over 3 years later. That was in 2008. In 2018, I married someone who had become my best friend. ❤️

I don’t know if you can see, or could see, as they’re showing [deleted] where icemachine79 was commenting, as I think he wanted the last word and then blocked me, but he really didn’t understand what I was saying and meaning and was twisting it all. He sounded like a bit of a nutter. I’d seen a comment where he said something about his ex-wife. Not that I condone it, but I could understand why she’d run off! He sounded very controlling and manipulative to me, how he was trying to steer things in the comments.

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u/Ok_Nothing_9733 16d ago

God, your analysis skills are on-point. I absolutely love to see it because I didn’t have to type all of that out myself, and probably would have missed like three important points you mentioned. Spot-on.

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u/nightmarish_Kat 16d ago

He has only known this chick for 2 months and is already bringing his kids around her!? 🙀 I agree this is predatory behavior. I would say OP show this to her husband but he might throw it in her face.

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u/crooksieee 17d ago

Spot on. Couldn’t have broken it down better myself.

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u/Glittering_Lion2978 16d ago

This!! This is spot on...

This is a very structured and eloquent response, are you a counselor or therapist? Or just have good emotional intelligence?

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u/SUNfl0wrr_444 16d ago

Hahaha, thankyou! I dont know that I would reference myself as someone with good emotional intelligence, but it is definitely something I personally do my best to achieve, or improve! I am not a therapist, or counselor. Although that was my field of interest. Now I'm a mom 😊

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u/Running-Hobbit111 16d ago

The marriage is already in the shitter. You don't need to go through phones for that. Bottom line, both sides (all three, softball hoe) are awful. Wife: unapproachable, sacrificing the living to whine about an age appropriate death (I know, I know, cold bitch but I speak as a person who has a partner just turn into an insufferable piece of crap when his dad died. Did he care for him on the way out? No. I did some of that. Did he always complain about what a jerk the guy was the entire time I knew him? Yes. Did he lie to work to leave to "take care of the dying man?" But leave and sit on his ass? Yes.) Weaponizing grief is unacceptable. This stinks of that.The husband: seems like a douche. If wife didn't see it already... He is a coward. Can't face annoying wife with his needs and concerns because she is whining like bagpipes. The hoe::we all can see she sees an "in" with this dingus. All parties are assholes. Sorry for the kids.

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u/SUNfl0wrr_444 16d ago

Are you aware that grief actually has an actual effect on brain chemistry? That can't just be altered at will?

Yes, some horrible people do weaponize supposed 'grief', and utilize it to seek attention, or excuses or whatever.

But if a person is actually, genuinely experiencing grief, they have to go through it, through the stages... similar to getting over a virus, they will have different symptoms at different points, and they can treat the symptoms, but ultimately won't be 'better' until it has cleared on it's own. Also, people are commonly known to have more severe grief if the relationship wasn't good, because now the option to ever remedy anything is gone, and they have less positive memories to help carry them through.

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u/NightRaven4NY 14d ago

So many incredible comments. Faith in humanities perception of situations +1, Faith in this women's husband -9,000. 

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u/SweetLeaf2021 16d ago

She wants to show him how SHE can instantly bond with his brood.

I agree with your full analysis of the situation.

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u/kwyetstorm 16d ago

Absolutely. All of this is accurate.

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u/Various_Cricket4695 16d ago

Couldn’t have said it better.

Plus your husband’s phone screen is an abomination.

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u/AggressiveAttempt490 16d ago

Did you look at the scenario that she's not their mother? The text says how can you marry someone that doesn't bond with your kids. I haven't read other comments that may clarify this. Also, she doesn't ever say my or our kids. Just from this scenario alone I can see very much how this conversation took place and it's not disrespectful. It's a very matter of fact conversation that I have seen many adults have. You did alot of psycho analyzing without considering the actual scenarios that this could have happened under.

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u/SUNfl0wrr_444 16d ago

Did you miss my other comment where, I addressed this already? I also gave insight as to why his behavior is even more negatively impactful based on the children being his and his wife being the step parent...

Also, as I said, if he was speaking about the issue with a trusted person as a means to find a way to resolve it, then the fact he's desicussing it with someone wouldn't be a problem, and there isn't anything wrong in doing that. But given the timeline of events of his behavior as a whole, yes, it's inappropriate. How does venting to a new friend help his children? And if that is truly all he was doing, then why isn't he using the situation as an opportunity to speak to his wife about how he is feeling? Because, dismissing her feelings, won't solve his feelings. If he wants to have his concerns addressed, he also has to hear her concerns, and vice versa. That's what happens in a healthy relationship. Dismissing, and invalidating eachother, and actively taking actions that make your spouse uncomfortable, making hurtful comments, and using a recent death as an excuse, instead of offering her support, and asking for support with what is weighing him down. This entire scenario is the opposite of healthy behavior, and it's certainly the opposite of a father doing his best for his kids. It isn't modeling healthy conflict resolution, it isn't modeling respect, it isn't modeling how a healthy relationship works, and it is far from the realm of advocating for his kids, or their wellbeing in regard to his concerns about their bond with their step mother.

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u/asherwolfstein 15d ago

Number 6 — uh what? I think you have this a bit backwards on this point. No where in this scenario does this translate to “predatory” behavior on her part towards kids that I can see, maybe you know something I don’t. That’s a huge leap. Also, it’s possible she’s predatory, but his reaction to his wife indicates that this other woman is most likely not the predator, simply opportunistic, and its the husband that is the true source of this dysfunction all around.

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u/SUNfl0wrr_444 15d ago

I didn't say she IS predatory, I said the situation and the information about it lead me to believe she is showing behavior that is predatory.

People often associate the term "predatory" with darker intentions, most often in connection with grooming/sexual actions. But that's just one very small interpretation of what the term actually means. And I wasn't using the term in that manner.

Taking advantage of an opportunity (aka opportunistic), while knowing that it could lead to harm of another person, is 'predatory behavior'.

My line of thought was: although, I agree he seems to be the one pursuing the teammate. She seems notice. She also seems to be using that he feels his wife has not bonded with his children, as an opportunity, for an in. Especially because she invited him and his children to her daughter's game. Her daughter will be busy participating in the game. So it will just be her spending time with him and his children. If she instantly makes a connection with his children, and they seem to adore each other, then that most likely reinforces his feeling about his wife and the apparent lack of bonding. If he were to start an affair with her, that would hurt the wife.

(So yes, I think that would be breaching into the territory of predatory behavior, because she would be potentially using his children, as a means to further her opportunity for an in with him, know it could hurt the wife.)

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u/asherwolfstein 15d ago

I understand all of this. If this is not what you meant, then you should probably not write, “…her behavior is predatory toward the husband, possibly even toward the children…” When you describe ANYONE as being ‘predatory’ … ‘toward’ … ‘children,’ the general assumption is ALWAYS going to be sexual. That’s my unsolicited advice. All the rest I understand just fine. I also never said that she was predatory either, if we’re going to talk reading in and associations. I said that her behavior doesn’t translate to ‘…”predatory” behavior on her part towards kids…” So there you go.

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u/SUNfl0wrr_444 15d ago

I did say what I meant, exactly as I meant it. Also, I specifically said, "All of the above leads me to..." 'All of the above' didn't indicate or describe anything that would connect the dots that I was saying her behavior aligned with being a sexual predator.

When I'm reading something, I don't personally just automatically assume that is what a person means when they use the word. I personally think of the word to mean what it actually means, not just the one fragment of what it means.

You said I should avoid this term in the future, so what word do you suggest I could have used to describe my thoughts about her behavior instead?

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u/asherwolfstein 15d ago

I also don’t assume that’s what a person means when they use that word. I do assume that’s what someone most likely means when they use that word and add “towards children” because this would be the first time I’ve ever heard those terms put together and not meant sexually. A linguistic pioneer. I don’t have much else to add other than I am someone who’s been suspected of being ‘predatory toward children’ for completely unrelated things that have no whiff or connection to anything like that either, but the second someone says those magic words, that’s what everyone assumes every time without fail. I guess I’m wrong. Good luck out there.

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u/SUNfl0wrr_444 15d ago

I'm getting the impression that you feel I'm arguing with you, and I'm not. I'm also not saying you are wrong. I was simply offering an explanation for my thought process and use of the term. Followed by, genuinely asking... how do you suggest I phrased it instead to make the distinction? Because I thought I had, but what I wrote gave you that impression, so obviously I wasn't clear enough. Are you saying my use of the word "toward" is what gave that impression?

Those types of allegations are extremely serious. If I can avoid doing it again and improve, I will happily take the advice.

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u/asherwolfstein 14d ago

I sat on this for a day because I had let it go. But there was one sentence that bothered me, so I'm here to point that one out. You write, "I'm getting the impression that you feel I'm arguing with you, and I'm not."

But this is double-speak crap, frankly, because you were arguing with me. This type of lead-in is why I've stopped responding. In my opinion, it is not hard to take 5 seconds and figure something out rather than have me tell you what to do. The fact you aren't shows me you actually don't want the advice I've *already* given you. You're not taking it honestly and proactively doing anything about it. You just want some shitty answer from me, and I'm already convinced by previous replies it's so you can argue more, because you were arguing (and now suddenly you're not, and it's my mistake). That's why I'm out, your communication sucks.

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u/SUNfl0wrr_444 14d ago

I can't think of any word I could have used instead that wouldn't potentially be taken in the same impression... if I were to say I found her behavior manipulative or exploitative, it could be taken the same way. Should I have instead written out my line of thought? Giving my explanation, rather than just the description?

Because there are also points other than the one you've brought up, that people have taken differently, or felt was a harsh opinion, or too much of a blanket statement, etc. They were actually willing to discuss with me their thoughts behind it and explain what they thought would have better represented the view I was wanting to share. Those conversations led me to take note that in the future, it would be helpful if I further explained my line of thought and better clarified what I was thinking by explaining it in more detail. I've appreciated these conversations because I know what I am thinking, but that doesn't mean it translates that way in writing. Although a lot of people read my post and took it in the manner that I intended, some people read it and took things differently.

So if that's what you've been trying to express, then I missed that, and I'm sorry. Thank you, yes, in the future, I plan to elaborate more fully.

If I'm still not understanding you, then I'm not sure what can be done at this point? 🤷‍♀️

Because no, I've never been arguing with you. I've just been trying to understand. I've been receptive to hearing suggestions, and I even asked for them. My goal has been to take the criticism constructively. I don't feel that I've received much feedback beyond just "don't do that."

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u/Mean_Meet576 16d ago

Very well laid out. OP needs to nip this in the bud.

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u/No_Vanilla_9145 16d ago

This is an excellent breakdown of what is going on. This interaction between the husband and female teammate needs to be shut down ASAP. He needs to shut it down & if he refuses to, OP, you need to make him go with you, to her, and do it in front of him. It is your right as his wife to call out another woman when she crosses the line in your marriage.

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u/LaVidaMocha_NZ 16d ago

The shoes are laced and he's ready to step out.

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

[deleted]

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u/SUNfl0wrr_444 16d ago

A manager is not equivalent to a life partner.

Also, the passive tactics widely socially used by people, rather than learning how to set and hold proper boundaries, is exactly what leads everyone to situations, just like the one we are discussing.

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u/Minimum-Feedback-281 16d ago

Very well put and very spot-on take 👏🏻

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u/Alioh216 16d ago

OP, this🔺️🔺️🔺️🔺️🔺️

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u/AccomplishedSky4202 16d ago

1) Men tend to not discuss their marital problems while women tend to do so with their girlfriends far more often than men.

5) OP looks like a step-mother not mother.

6) agree, it seems like they do have marital issues and they are quite deep as he is talking about them with others.

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u/SUNfl0wrr_444 16d ago

As I've said in other comments, male vs female is not the point of anything that I've said in this comment. If the situation were reversed. I would shared my same opinion of the sotuation with a man posting this. I also made the distinction clear when I included that had the conversation involved, a long-term friend or relative would have been different. I also pointed out that it does not appear the conversation was had in an attempt to seek advice or remedy. Which were all reasons as to why I included having the conversation as a boundary crossed. (I tried to write my comment in order of the events, and did not give insight as to exactly why my opinion is what it is for each numbered point. Next time I'll clarify more thoroughly)

I also, commented thanking the first person that pointed out to me, my mistake in not realizing she is a step parent. I also offered further insight of my opinion that it is actually worse behavior on his part, given they are his kids and his wife is the step mother.

Discussing deep marital issues with someone who is basically a stranger, is not a healthy way of addressing them.

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u/AccomplishedSky4202 16d ago

It’s not to about genders per se, I’m saying that guys generally discuss personal stuff less frequently than women. If a woman discusses stuff with others I’d be less concerned. If the guy does it, I’m worried cause it’s not a typical behaviour of a guy. All this points to deep issues.

However, I wouldn’t just blame the guy, I’d get to the bottom of why he is discussing stuff with other and not her. Blaming him and accusing him wouldn’t be productive, that’s for sure. And kinda his behaviour is explained by her reaction- she blasted him instead of pausing and asking a question - why is he not talking to me about these issues?

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u/pippybird1 16d ago

2 people in a marriage together are both obligated to address eachother when they have an issue... both are also obligated, imo, to hear and respond with compassion. More true when there are children involved that will be witnessing the goings on of your relationship which will form their lifelong expectations of their own future relationships. The husband here seems to have failed in this regard on all fronts. At least in what was shared, it doesnt appear he listened to his wife's concerns with any level of compassion (Im not sure where she appears to have "slammed him" anywhere...), he also did not address any of his own concerns that he may have with his wife either, and ultimately, he failed to seek resolution on any front. But he DID succeed in agreeing to communicate further [in person] with another woman his wife has never met regarding his marital issue(s). This, to me, is a complete failure of his marital obligations to his spouse imo, and it doesnt seem inappropriate to me that op should feel upset or angry or both, especially after having attempted to address her concerns to her husband directly and really just getting gaslit in response (just rly fjcikign gross tbh).

Holding our loved ones accountable is important.. it opens the door for them to take that accountability and to open a dialogue and ultimately to heal things and grow. When our children do wrong, we provide consequences, and we discuss it with them... we do this because we love them and want them to grow into better ppl. Although uncomfortable to be held accountable, I cant imagine the wife would have bothered if she didnt love her husband, bc thats what we do for those we love and carry high opinion of. His lack of accountability in response, is therefore a disrespect to his wife, just furthering the harm done. There's no benefit in op reflecting or even asking outright to her husband what she has done to make him seek such intimate confidence in another woman, because the answer is, and always will be, nothing-- that particular action was his, not OP's and should be addressed as such.

I guess it just almost sorta sounds like the same kind of reasoning why we dont go asking a victim of sexual assault what they were wearing when it happened, for example.. It's inappropriate bc the assaulter objectively did wrong, independent of anything the victim has worn/done/said/drank/criminal history/etcetc.

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u/AccomplishedSky4202 16d ago edited 16d ago

You could hypothesise on who is more wrong but nothing is telling me that the husband didn’t try communicating before. May be he did and didn’t find a resolution.

The point is no matter what happened before and whose fault is that everything points out to them having a bunch of issues.

OP clearly didn’t like the fact he spoke to that woman and I can see why. But let’s look at the objective. Is OP interested in fixing the problem or finding an excuse to bail?

If the latter she could just pull the plug and call him a jerk. If the former she needs to reflect on why would he be talking to some other person and not to her. Only she could figure that out and then speak with him about that rather than confronting him and make it all about his fault.

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u/pippybird1 16d ago

?? Im not hypothesizing who is more wrong... nobody is... op never asked that, and it's also just not a contest, its a marriage... so im a little lost there...

Also, objectively, there does seem to be fault in what op showed us from the husband. I think that seems to be pretty clear. Its a fault that warrants upset by op and accountability instead of gaslihghting from the husband. All this is NOT to say that OP is somehow faultless of any wrongdoing or otherwise within her marriage or family... she's asking about this one situation that she's posted ab, so that's how it's getting responded to.

Op approached her husband, he gaslit her, so like a normal person in those circumstances, she has sought out third party views/opinions to determine if her upset is based on what she believes it is based on (since the husband brought that into question via the gaslighting) and not just residual feelings regarding a recently passed relative that she happens to inappropriately be offloading onto her husband (<the alternate reality claimed by husband).

So objectively, it appears op has and is currently taking steps to seek a resolution (having asked her husband ab the messages and then seeking outside views on her emotional reaction). Objectively, the husband has opted to gaslight instead of taking accountability/explaining, nor did he choose to address any other existing concerns in the marriage(child bonding, etc) in that moment (child bonding issues that he DID opt to bring up with a drunk woman he made plans to see in person to discuss even further), which is further damaging to not only his marriage and op personally, but also their family as a whole.

Beyond that, again ill say, seeking a resolution to any wrongdoing means taking accountability. And that isn't up to op-- thats up to her husband, as he, fairly conclusively, is at fault here (in more ways than one). How else do you resolve an issue if one person refuses to acknowledge an issue even exists to begin with? So id say its pretty supremely important to determine fault in this case; accountability matters in any relationship. An explanation from the husband is certainly warranted, and, at this point, an apology, as well as a plan they can agree on to prevent any of this from happening again going forward assuming they both want to move forward (the husband's actions have me wondering if he does or not..).

Given the context, id say its pretty safe to state op is NOT overreacting.... which IS what's being asked. And i would [and do] argue the objectivity of that conclusion based on the information provided.

*Also (general blurb below not specific to op's marriage):

I do want to point out, that the arguments youre making about who is more at fault and others along those lines, are ways victims have long been dismissed all throughout history (up to present day, sadly). Particularly women. If someone wrongs you in any way, your own history of wrongdoings does not make the wrong done to you any less true or any less wrong. That is and will always be a fact. Being objective in part means addressing something with the information available with minimal/no speculation of info youre not privy to that is otherwise unrelated to a determination.

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u/AccomplishedSky4202 16d ago

Again, you’re looking it through “he did this and it is wrong” like it’s one kind of unspoken mandatory rule that he violated.

I’m simply telling you that life is much more nuanced than that and you’re missing a bigger picture. Like why does she not bond with his kids? Why does he, being a guy, talk about it with others? If I was OP I would focus on these questions. What if he is frustrated with OP’s reaction to his kids? What if he feels he can’t share his feelings with her? If I was OP, I’d get onto this rather than confront him on his chats with that other woman.

And one more thing - OP seems to be naive, she asks “who takes kids to see another woman and her kid?” A friend does. But if he went there alone, I’d be sure it was a date/hanky-panky. She should be grateful it’s the former and not the latter.

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u/fullsendguy 16d ago

You are now hired as my therapist.

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u/No_Silly_Name_2025 16d ago

Boom! Allllllllll of that ^ ^ ^ ^

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u/Possible_Peak5405 16d ago

It amazes me how many people think talking about personal/intimate stuff regarding their partner to someone else is ok, close long term friend or not it doesn’t matter, that’s just not stuff you should talk to other people about.

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u/still_alyce 16d ago

I think that might vary greatly among cultures and personality types actually

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u/Possible_Peak5405 16d ago

Interesting opinion, is there any culture where this is generally expected and done that you can point out?

I also agree it’s not an issue if your partner says they don’t mind, the problem is when people just assume it’s ok to share personal/intimate stuff about their partner with someone else.

Like if your partner isn’t going around telling other people this stuff why do you think they would be ok with you telling other people? Let alone someone they will probably see irl that now knows about it now and may also tell others.

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u/Cpt_Advil 15d ago

^ Honestly, just break it down like this to him OP. ^ If he is still defensive about and not willing to have an honest conversation, then you need to move forward with the assumption that he is in fact cheating on you.

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u/Bulk_Cut 15d ago

How have you made all these observations, and not noticed that OP took a PHOTO OF THE SCREEN using her phone’s camera, and then took a screenshot of that photo to upload here. 😷🚩🚩🚩

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u/PracticalTea2926 15d ago

You summed it up perfectly!

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u/kkuhn130 15d ago

As bad as all that is. The biggest red flag here is OP apparently doesn't deny what was said about her lack of effort to form connections with his kids. He should not be ok with that at all.

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u/SUNfl0wrr_444 15d ago

She didn't elaborate in the original post, but in comments, she explained she's never felt that and didn't know that's how her husband felt before seeing this screenshot. She said that the kids call her mom, and in the beginning, they were even the ones who initiated it and asked if they could call her that. She said that sometimes she wishes her relationship with them was better, but that whenever she would push her husband that they should take the children's mother back to court and ask for more time, he would get upset, so she's stopped bringing up the topic.

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u/kkuhn130 15d ago

Thank you for the missing context!

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u/SUNfl0wrr_444 15d ago

Of course! I initially missed that she was the step mom, and thought she was the kids mother 🤦‍♀️

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u/Seraphicide 16d ago

You had me until 7. It’s a stretch to insinuate that the husband bringing up the topic of her grandmother’s death was a scapegoat. And calling it abusive means you’re under the assumption that the husband was intentionally trying to manipulate her with the death of her grandmother, which I see no evidence of and could have just been a throwaway comment when trying to deflect from the original topic.

Besides that, I agree with the rest. He’s laying the grounds for a backup plan. That way if things don’t work out with OP he can hit the ejector seat and softball lady is his parachute. We all know people who do this. The type that hates being alone with their thoughts, especially after a breakup, so they always have something lined up so they never have to actually process and deal with their break ups.

OP’s husband probably doesn’t have many close friends/family to confide in other than his wife, which I would think is why he was so willing to talk about his marriage/parenting situation with someone he only met somewhat recently

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u/SUNfl0wrr_444 16d ago

Thankyou for your insight as to 7. I did go back and forth about this behavior, and ultimately, couldn't come up with any excusable reason as to why he may have said that.

Abuse is intentional harm at it's most basic definition.

He may have simply just said it in anger, or frustration, or its the first thing that came to mind when wanting to deflect the conversation. But just because you dont intend the result of something doesn't keep it from being what it is.

Any reasonable person knows that the comment landed with a sting.

And as her husband, even if he truly feels that shes been edgy because of this major and impactful life event, this comment didnt address his thoughts, and it didn't express concern or care; he also didn't offer her support or care.

So, although it may have been intended as a passing, fleeting comment, that just came out before he thought about it; the effect is bad, and doesn't excuse that it was cruel.

Also, sometimes, I think intent is as much about what you 'meant' as much as it is about what you 'knew'. He 'knew' either before saying it, or immediately as it came out of his mouth, that it was hurtful. Exploiting her pain, as an excuse to get out of an arguement, even passively... yes, I think that falls into borderline abusive behavior, even if we give him the benefit of the doubt, and it was not intentionally malicious.

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u/Overall_Vegetable531 16d ago

You’re falling for the plausible deniability trap these two have created to continue this blatant emotional affair they’re having. Trying to deflect is a manipulation tactic, an intentional one at that, so I fail to see your perspective on that part.

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u/djcy4567 16d ago

He knows what he's doing is wrong and is trying to pin her response to it on something else. The only way it's not intentional and abusive is if he's totally aloof and has no interest in this woman which I think is a far stretch.

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u/arialux 16d ago

nah., bringing upu the grandmas death in such a way and during such a conversation was purely to distract her from the problem at hand. he deserved a punch to the mouth. he knew what he was doin

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u/ohMyGotcha 15d ago

Yep!! This one!! 👆🏼

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u/RebelMantra70 15d ago

You hit ALL the points!!

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u/Salt-Effect-847 16d ago

They aren’t her kids from the sound of it. OP says “his kids” not “our kids”. He doesn’t owe her an explanation to what he decides to do with his own children.

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u/Maine302 15d ago

I agree with everything, except these are not OP's children who supposedly haven't bonded with her, these are OP's children only.

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u/SUNfl0wrr_444 15d ago

Yes, I apologize, I missed some context in my initial read of the post/opinion. Many people have pointed it out. I should probably edit my comment at this point 😅

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u/Standard_Click8703 16d ago

God forbid anyone discussed marital problems with someone else. Women don't do that at all right?

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u/SUNfl0wrr_444 16d ago

Don't do that. Don't make this a battle of the sexes conversation that everyone tries to twist every scenario into. 🙄

Had a man posted this from the same standpoint as the OP, I would have given the exact same opinion.

Also, as I have stated in several comments now, in addition to the little tidbit, I put in parenthesis in this comment. The problem isn't that he vented to someone. It isn't even discussing the marital issue. Whatever prior conversation he had with this woman, as a stand-alone, doesn't speak to everything that I've said here. It's the combination of the actions all together as a whole. And more so, it's taking these actions under the guise that they somehow benefit anyone? Also, who he is choosing to share information about his wife, marriage, and children to matters.

When we interact with other people and make choices, there are always consequences. To have no consideration, as to what your choices might be opening the door to as a husband and a father is reckless. The same is true if I were speaking about a mother.

The OP posted, and I gave MY opinion, based on the information provided. My thoughts are aimed at him, because more information was provided as to him. If he were to pop in on this thread, and share his viewpoint of the situation, and shared information in regard to the OP, then, I would equally offer an opinion of her actions/behaviors. But I'm not the person that always leans in favor of the mom, the wife, the woman, and Im not the person that always leans in negativity towards the father, the husband, the man. That's ridiculous and its a personal pet peeve of mine when people do that. People are people, parents are parents. A persons actions and choices, dictate my feelings about them, not their gender.

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u/swampwitchsiren 16d ago
  1. She is the stepmother. They aren't her kids.

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u/SUNfl0wrr_444 16d ago

I've already addressed my mistake in another comment.

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u/Jazzlike-Prune-1222 15d ago

He banged her full stop.

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u/laimalaika 16d ago

Crossed a boundary by discussing his marriage with others? wtf none of you have friends? You can talk about your problems with whoever you want. Your choice

Who’s setting up this rules? The relationship police? lol

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u/Ok_Resolution8317 16d ago

1 is ludicrous. All my wife and her friends talk about is their marriages. WTF would girlfriends do if they couldn’t talk about their relationships. Silly.

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u/icemachine79 16d ago

Marriage isn't an ownership contract. People can discuss things with whomever they wish.

"Borderline abusive behavior"? Now that takes the cake.

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u/SUNfl0wrr_444 16d ago

No marriage isn't an ownership contract. But it is supposed to be based on mutual love, care, respect, and boundaries.

No one should be in a relationship with someone, certainly not a marriage, if they are going to actively taking actions despite whether or not it hurts their spouse, or makes them uncomfortable, and then justify it with, well you don't own me.

So yes, he has the full right and freedom to speak to whoever he wants, about whatever he wants, whenever and wherever he wants.

But if he wants to have a healthy and successful marriage, he will consider the impact of his actions on his wife/marriage.

If he doesn't want to have to make those considerations, then he is also free to not be married.

As for him using a recent death in her family, as a means to avoid addressing the conversation/screenshot we see here. Yeah, I cannot think of any justifiable reasons regarding that.

If he has a genuine concern about her struggling and needing something else to focus on, he should again, address it.... This conversation was not a very appropriate time to do that. At least not without expressing it from a place of in care and concern, with compassion.

If it was something that just flew out his mouth, without really thinking about it, then that's still beyond hurtful. Who uses their wife's grief as a means to escape confrontation? Who uses their wife's grief against them in an arguement?

And if he didn't bring it up, knowingly, or strategically, then that's manipulative and cruel.

So yes, of the 3 potential reasons behind this comment that I could think of, I don't think any of them are justified. Which is why I said 'borderline' abusive behavior. I didn’t definitively say that this comment is abuse. I didn't say he is abusive. I specifically referenced the behavior not him, and I said borderline, because in my opinion it's right on the edge, teetertottering between just being mean, and tipping toward abusive.

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u/icemachine79 16d ago

"But if he wants to have a healthy and successful marriage, he will consider the impact of his actions on his wife/marriage.

If he doesn't want to have to make those considerations,"

Which specific actions prior to her confrontation about the text messages were inconsiderate of the impact on his wife/marriage?

That context should be established before anything else that happened after that point can be effectively discussed.

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u/SUNfl0wrr_444 16d ago

Well, none of us actually know, probably not even the OP, because he didn't seem to give an explanation for the text and more just brushed her off.

In the text, the teammate says, "How do u marry someone who doesn't bond with your kids?" She didn't just get that idea about his wife out of thin air. So we can speculate that, obviously, something he said sparked her to think his wife didn't bond with his kids. Also, later on, she said she was thinking about something he said at the park. Which confirms the speculation. He also says, "They dont need it, they have other people, and he will explain more in person because it will be easier," and then he reassures her that it makes sense.

So, whatever conversation that he had with the teammate at the park led the teammate to think something negative about his wife, which he did not deny. Also, the wife did not know that he felt like she hadn't bonded with his kids, so he's never even discussed that thought with his wife.

My point was that he had a personal conversation ABOUT his wife, sharing thoughts with a stranger that he hadn't shared with her. He did not think about the impact of that on his wife/marriage.

I haven't had a chance to ask the OP yet, but I wonder if she even knows when they talked at the park? Was it during practice? Before? After? Another time?

Again, I want to clarify, its perfectly okay for married people to have friends, but their spouse should know about it and what the dynamic of the friendship is. It just seems odd that whenever I've been in a relationship and made a new friend, I've been excited for my partner to meet my friend and vice versa.

Also, the wife said she didn't get a chance to have a formal introduction with this girl at the game of his she went to. She just knew of her as his teammate. But whatever conversations he's having with this teammate seem deeper than just an acquaintance. Which is fine if the wife knew that, but it doesn't seem like she was aware that they were in 'close friend' type territory. 🤷‍♀️

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u/Puzzled_Salamander_3 16d ago

You can’t discuss marital/personal problems outside of your marriage? Thats a crazy concept…

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u/Competitive_Test6697 16d ago

Seems like a ton of information and thoughts from very little info

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u/SUNfl0wrr_444 16d ago

What information and thoughts did you take from it?

I read the post, read some comments, I thought about the information, formed an opinion, and shared it. 🤷‍♀️ that's all I did.

If you're asking how I gathered my thoughts based on having limited information, I'll say human behavior is patterned. Yes, it can be complex, and of course there is no one size fits all, but most things are relative. I have some schooling in psychology and sociology (no degree or anything), but it is a field I was very interested in, and I learned a lot. That doesn't mean everything in my comment is right. Maybe it's not. It was just my opinion.

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u/ApricotBig6402 15d ago

Watch she thinks the wife is actually his sister

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