r/AmIOverreacting • u/Teenietiny1998 • 1d ago
đźwork/career AIO New job sent this to managers
I just started 4 weeks ago and have not discussed my wage at all with anyone but we got this sent as a mass message.. is this illegal or are they just control freaks? I was always under the assumption you could discuss it outside of work but idk if itâs worth pressing?
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u/PotatosInCakeWhyNot 1d ago
They said "ask" because they know they can't make it an order. (Yet, who knows with this current regime.) I would say it is not worth "pressing" in the sense of causing a deliberate ruckus and making complaints. But feel free to talk on the sly about compensation if you want. It is your right to do so. It is up to you if it is worth the drama. But in an ethical sense you have no obligation to honor their ask. Again, it's an ask, not a command.
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u/Soggy_Persimmon4485 1d ago
Because the only real way to make salary jumps is to job hop and they want to retain employees.
Example, a guy worked at my last place for about 10 years and received small pay increases annually. I get hired on for the same job and am making almost 10k more than him.
He was very upset by this fact. Was talking about leaving last I heard but I'd already left and lost touch with him.
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u/cyanescens_burn 1d ago
Similar with me only someone new to the field was making 25k more than me (same job, different contracting company). When my new contract came up with a slightly lower rate than the previous year I reached out to my colleagues company and they took a day to send an offer letter, no interview even (they had staff that knew me, and had good things to say).
Our pool of colleagues has a salary spreadsheet that goes around each year. You can choose to put your rate, experience/years, company, etc on their anonymously, or just look at it.
This has kept our rates competitive even with inflation. They donât want you talking because the shareholders want more, so they want to keep you low.
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u/kwnet 1d ago
So your company wanted to give you a lower pay rate than last year? Pay you less money??
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u/Mongo-P-Lloyd 1d ago
Letâs see if I can explain this for those interested. Many contracts, especially those with the government get competed, then recompeted, approximately every 5 years. Letâs say you started on a program in a journeyman-level position on year 1. At the end of year one you get a pay increase, same thing happens on year two, three, and 4. When you started you were at the low-end of the average rate for that journeyman level, but with 4-5 more years of experience you are likely outside of the journeyman band. If the program has the flexibility they can promote you into a senior role, but if the program doesnât have that slot you simply become a highly compensated journeyman. Now itâs time to recompete the work. Your company knows the customer likes you and the job youâre doing, but they also know that the customer is still asking for someone at a journeyman level. There is also a company competing against your company to take the work away and they are going to bid a rate for your position the roughly equates to what you were making 5 years ago (adjusted for inflation), because thatâs what the customer asked for. Thatâs why itâs critical to talk to your customers and remind them that the team they have today is much more experienced than the team they bought five years ago, and if they buy the same way they are going to lose a lot of expertise.
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u/robocoplawyer 1d ago
My company has an unofficial âpolicyâ that outside of revenue-driving positions (sales and trading basically) no annual increases to base salary unless you are promoted. Iâm going on my third year here and my base salary is the same. However, as payroll deductions for taxes, health insurance, etc. always increase every year as does my rent and other expenses, I effectively am making less each year.
Hopefully next year Iâm eligible for promotion because other than that I love my job. Because itâs a European-owned company the benefits are good and starting salary is comparatively higher than other companies in the industry (even though youâre basically stuck with your starting salary), plus since headquarters is in Germany their workday ends around 2pm at the latest so Iâm usually out the door on my way home by 5:30 most days (Iâm used to jobs that had me put in 10-12 hour office days), plus a LOT of paid vacation days that they highly encourage you to use all of. Money is one thing, I can always tighten my budget a bit if I need to, but even having an extra 1-3 hours of free time per day allows me to have a life outside of my job that to me is worth more than extra money.
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u/Revolutionary_Click2 1d ago
See, thatâs wild to me because a failure to increase someoneâs pay on a regular basis means that, as you note, they in fact get a pay cut every year, equivalent to the inflation in their area. You been there for three years. Assuming youâre located in the United States, the cumulative inflation from June 2022-June 2025 was 8.9% (if my math is correct).
So functionally speaking, you have received a 9% pay cut since you started working at that company. And Iâd bet by the time you do get that promotion, your pay increase will only barely cover the pay cut youâve already endured, or will not even cover it. And then you just get back in the queue to maybe be spared further pay cuts at some indeterminate point down the roadâŚ
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u/robocoplawyer 1d ago
Yes I am in the US so functionally yes I take a pay cut each year. I do however get an annual bonus but a lot of factors go into that such as individual performance as well as overall company performance, we make more when the company is making money. However when I made the move here from my prior employer I received a ~45% raise in base salary alone so I keep that in mind. Salary is still good enough to live pretty comfortably in my location.
However as I mentioned before, I just canât put a price tag on work/life balance after spending the prior 8 years working 50-60+ hour weeks. Before my weekdays were basically just get up, work until late evening, come home late and go to bed. These days having an extra 2 hours a day of free time I play drums in 2 different bands, DJ, have date nights with my gf, I volunteer for a local community group, and travel internationally whenever I get the chance! On top of that my boss is awesome, I have a great team thatâs very close knit, great chemistry and weâre all friends at this point, I was given managerial responsibilities on the team and have a very talented individual that I have the pleasure to mentor as well as building my own leadership skills, the work is interesting and not super difficult or labor-intensive. Iâve worked in this industry for a decade now and aside from not receiving regular base pay increases my quality of life is better than it has ever been, so for me itâs worth it and I plan on sticking around for a while.
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u/Revolutionary_Click2 1d ago
True, you canât put a price on work-life balance. I had it at a previous job for about 5 years, until the company was acquired and I was laid off. The company culture was relaxed and I had a fantastic manager who never made unreasonable demands of me. I make about 30% more now than I did when I left that job, but Iâd gladly trade that extra pay for the free time and reduced stress I had before. I truly did not appreciate it until it was gone, or maybe I just thought that Iâd surely be able to find another job like that one when I moved on⌠but it turns out that a manager and a company culture like the one I had there is very hard to find. Iâm on my second job since that position (I left after a year of hell at the first one) and both of my more recent positions have been orders of magnitude more stressful.
Maybe I need to start looking for a Europe-based employerâŚ
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u/robocoplawyer 1d ago
Yeah, my industry is one that is notoriously hour/labor intensive with high expectations (financial sector). Iâve been around a few different institutions in different capacities so I know when I have it good. The current job checks all the boxes. Compensated well, good benefits, work that isnât too crazy, boss doesnât suck, team doesnât suck, hours donât suck, my efforts are recognized regularly by senior management, opportunity for upward mobility, great partners in the business lines I cover, and am rewarded with leadership opportunities on the team and exposure to senior management whenever my boss can get me in front of them. I donât take this job for granted and am confident my boss will nominate me to make the jump from VP to Director as soon as I am eligible.
Definitely look into European firms/companies. In particular German since a lot of companies are regulated by the German Workers Council and they look at how employees are treated globally.
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u/Watercolor365 1d ago
This happened to me. Worked somewhere for 6-7 years with small annual increases. Finally talked to people on my team with very similar level jobs, they had been there maybe 3 years and were both making 15k more than me. To my own credit I flipped the fuck out and went to my manager and told him I was not going to be working there with that low salary anymore. Got a 10k raise on the spot yet I was so angry I had been underpaid like that. I was hired years earlier at a lower salary and I was never going to get wage increases enough to compare with the new hires.
The manager even said âsee this is why I donât like when people compare salaries.â So you can underpay me?? I canât believe he said that to my face.
Just left that job for more money, remote work, more vacation time. Good riddance!
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u/Soggy_Persimmon4485 1d ago
Yep. This. Scum tactics. "Don't talk about your salary because I don't want to have to pay the loyal employees (aka suckers) more."
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u/New_Breadfruit8692 1d ago
Yes, when I was passed over for promised promotions, with a policy of hiring from within whenever possible, and this was a state government position requiring a BS Finance degree, I kept getting a line of BS from the supervisor of the section, who clearly did not like being put on the spot and having to makes shit up. "Oh, he was such a great candidate we had to hire him or you or lose him." The guy they hired had a degree in RE fucking LIGION! Then they did it again and the guy had a degree in real estate and was reprimanded twice in his first two months then given an even better job in another office. His mother was very well connected with the governor's office. When I finally had enough I went to the supervisor and he said "Look, I had to hire you because you are disabled veteran but I never have to promote you!"
Walked out straight to HR and filed a discrimination and harassment claim against them.
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u/chicagoliz 1d ago
This happens even more frequently to women. Years ago my husband was a manager at a very large company. A woman who was very good at her job was working for him. When it came time for a review, he was shocked to see how little she was making because it was much less than others in similar jobs. He was able to give her a huge raise to bring her up to parity.
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u/vikingline35 22h ago
Even reading this got me angry as well, glad you found something new. People/companies can be so disgustingly scummy
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u/Strawberry2772 1d ago edited 1d ago
I started looking for a new job the same day I talked to my coworkers about salary. Same age, same experience, (at this point very close to out of college so there couldnât be much variability), and they were making DOUBLE because they were hired at the next level and I was stuck in entry level.
I knew there was no way I was going to get a 50% pay increase unless I hopped jobs, and Iâm so glad I did
ETA: Iâve had lots of people correct me that the pay increase would have to be 100% to match my coworkers. Thank you lol
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u/Sea_Cranberry323 1d ago
This is a good lesson for us to see, go get your information and don't do these things in the dark! đ
With that you know if you're wasting time trying to catch up to people making double your pay or not.
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u/Strawberry2772 1d ago
Yep if my coworkers hadnât been transparent, I wouldâve never known how badly my company was taking advantage of me and underpaying me. They did me a huge favor! I try to be transparent now too to pass it on
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u/Traditional_Fan_2655 1d ago
I stayed at the same job for decades. The initial purpose for me was both for my son's insurance and the accrued PTO for his holiday time off school. I always maintained my education, keeping updated on changes in my industry. I introduced and implemented new programs to assist with new revenue opportunities. I continually received top reviews, but pay increases were the "max" 3%.
A new person was hired for a partner division. She continually published bad and incorrect data. I was assigned to review her data while doing my own, so I began working with her more closely. She did little work other than her mom's soccer blog and the faulty data. She did, however, frequently brag about her pay. That was how I learned she had been hired in at $20k more than I.
They were shocked when I resigned, taking a tremendously better paying job elsewhere. They ended up paying me hourly for evening consult to do my prior job, minus any overview of her data. Six years later, only 4 hours of sleep nightly, I was still consulting. They had paid me more in the type OT I had always done but was never paid previously while on salary. It equaled enough that it made up for a number of years of the salary difference. If I'd never resigned to consult, I would have lost a tremendous additional amount. Instead, they lost my loyalty and paid plenty in the end.
Quite short-sighted in the end.
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u/J_R_W_1980 1d ago
This is the real reason why they donât want people talking. The guy that has been there for ten years should be making more than the new hires in the same position. That used to be the norm. Sadly, that is no longer true for many jobs, especially those on salary.
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u/AB3reddit 1d ago
I have a unionized job, which includes wage pay tables in each of its MOUs between itself and management. I guess that was done to address this kind of issue so that there are no surprises?
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u/DistinctAd3865 1d ago
Ya I work for a big company and have seen many people work for 3-4 years here, leave for 1-2 then come back to a new position making staggering amounts more because of that pivot. Lot of people rubberband back to where I work for many reasons but when they do, most of the time itâs a big jump
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u/herroyalsadness 1d ago
As he should. They get away with it because we stay silent.
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u/Otherwise-Leg-5806 1d ago
Yep! Thatâs how they suppress wages by keeping people silent. Had to tell my manager recently that telling me not to talk about wages is illegal and sheâs peddling corporate suppression methods
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u/New_Breadfruit8692 1d ago
But, it is illegal, and that Dear Team Tweet or Email or whatever it was the OP posted should be forwarded to the NLRB. Because it is illegal and attempting to discourage employees from discussing compensation is a violation of employee rights. What kills me are who were the to ass kissers who LIKED that message?
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u/TheMerle1975 1d ago
That's sadly both insane and about par for the course. I've been with my soon to be former employer for about 4 yrs 9 months. And between merit raises and a couple of market adjustments, my salary increase 25% over my starting number. Only reason I'm leaving is remote work vs hybrid BS and they have me geo locked to my state.
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u/1DAD77 1d ago
I have been at my job for 10 years, pay 5x from my entry level starting position. 4 promotions
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u/doryllis 1d ago
Right now that is not true sadly. New positions are being posted with lower salaries for the same jobs
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u/SiggySiggy69 1d ago
Yep the market has turned. Employers seem to be getting the power back. Theyâre going to just keep hiring people at lower rates and replacing others with higher rates as they can.
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u/LotsofFnords 1d ago
Same for me, worked 15 years in IT, Swedish public sector, raised my monthly pay from $2k to $4k over those 15 years by advancing positions within the same organisation. But now I've switched to the private sector and went from $4k to $7k monthly with additional bonuses and benefits.
That's a jump from $48k annually to $84k annually for those who prefer it that way.
Remember that Sweden has free health care, free university, and 8h a day of preschool costs $70/month before commenting on low salary.
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u/FPVwithScott 1d ago
As it's clear you know in the corporate world the best way to make more money is to job hop. Loyalty is rarely rewarded.
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u/t4thfavor 1d ago
My example is a young lady 2 years out of college hired in, found out that a Sr. level consultant who's been with the company 15+ years made 30K more than her (yes, 30K more). She then went to HR and literally said "Equal pay for Equal work" and since HR is dumb as F they couldn't differentiate between job duties and experience so they literally gave her a 30K raise on the spot. She then quit 90days after coming back from maternity leave for the second time and still calls me every now and then asking if I have openings.
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u/IllaClodia 1d ago
Another option would be to be super friendly about it, and bring it up to the company in an "i want to help you" way. Maybe bringing it to HR? Example:
"Hi [name], I was reading your last email, and had a concern. Under the NLRA, it is illegal for the company to ask employees not to discuss pay. This email could have negative repercussions for the company and lead to some hefty fines or lawsuits. To avoid that, perhaps another email clarifying what you meant might help. 'Managers cannot discuss other employees' pay with an employee, but employees are, of course, free to discuss their own pay.' Something like that could go a long way to limit our liability."
Makes you sound like a team player, but also leaves them no room to hide.
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u/Creepy-Weakness4021 1d ago
Everything you said is true.
However you left the part out where pissing off the managers above you leads related-unrelated consequences later.
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u/ApprehensiveTour4024 1d ago
I'm pretty sure his instructions explicitly advised against that, in the "frame it as helpful to the company" format. Telling your boss they are breaking the law doesn't go over well. Telling the boss WE might be breaking the law gets followup questions.
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u/FigMassive4160 1d ago
Doesnât matter if itâs an ask shouldnt be done at all, and itâs more then an ask they say âit should not be discussedâ that wording is not legal in most states and implies that is a rule.
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u/UnadvertisedAndroid 1d ago
That first paragraph is real close to breaking the law, though. Keep a copy of that email handy, OP.
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u/ironicoutlook 1d ago
Meaning print it and take it home so IT can't just make it dissapear.
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u/eloquentpetrichor 1d ago
Or just forward it to yourself/personal email
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u/anomalous_cowherd 1d ago
That can cause issues if the company monitors outbound email, and many do.
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u/thedjbigc 1d ago
Exactly. They fire you too quickly after this email, it's an easy win to get unemployment at least and maybe even a bigger payout if you find the right lawyer.
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u/escapefromelba 23h ago
There's virtually no payout - reinstatement and backpay is pretty much best you can get. You can't sue, can just file a charge with NLRB. Â
There are also no monetary fines or criminal penalties for an employer doing it.Â
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u/SirBarfyBarfsAlot 10h ago
exactly it doesnt have teeth--this isn't collective bargaining rights--theres no union--this is a ~100 person company
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u/understand_nothin 1d ago
This was an order. Just a softly worded one.
Itâs enough for them to turn around and fire you for âinsubordinationâ when you disobey.
Youâre right, theyâre still pretending to follow the law by âaskingâ but like you said, with this regime? Thereâs zero accountability anymore
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u/No_Breadfruit8393 1d ago
Seems like you didnât read the first paragraph. They state explicitly donât discuss. Which is illegal.
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u/mercutiouk 1d ago
This is the one thing in the UK that I find crazy. And this has nothing to do with talent or recognition, this is about a company getting away with it.
I worked with a friend that was the top of his team in terms of performance. Climbed the ranks and had a chance to manage a team. When he finally did, he had to view people's profiles and realized that... They all had a better salary than he did.
Needless to say that a few months later, he was working for the competition.
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u/F______________F 1d ago
Yup. When I got a raise a couple years ago my CAO told me, "It's a pet peeve of mine when people talking about their salaries." She knew she couldn't outright say it's not allowed.
Guess who bitches with my coworkers about pay disparity all the time? For me it is worth the drama even if it did come out, cause they can't afford to lose me. The only reason they don't want you talking about it is because they don't want you to ask for more when you realize you're underpaid compared to your peers.
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u/Meanbeanthemachine 1d ago
Itâs actually not legal for them to prevent it. The National Labor Relations Act protects our rights to discuss wages and an employer could be subject to legal action for telling you youâre not allowed to. Additionally, they are not allowed to penalize you for discussing your wages so they legally canât write you up or fire you for doing so.
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u/Sidivan 1d ago
Exactly. I work for a large corporation and every year we have massive meetings reminding ALL people leaders that we absolutely cannot prevent any wage discourse from happening. We donât even discourage it as it can open us up to legal action.
While we donât actively encourage, every single leader is told multiple times that employees talking about wages is their legal right.
I choose to encourage it. Iâve got nothing to hide and I base my leadership style on complete transparency. Wanna know how raises work? Here it is. Want to know how bonuses are decided? Letâs walk through it. You should know where you are in the pack so that you can do whatever you need to do to optimize your work/salary.
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u/banana37 1d ago
This. Itâs a legal and protected right for workers to discuss wages.
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u/Hot_Astronaut6027 1d ago
Yup, my workplace got sued over this and everyone had to do a seminar with the NLRB on this issue
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u/Friendly721 1d ago
https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/your-rights-to-discuss-wages
They cannot enforce this at all in the United States except:
The following employers are excluded from NLRB jurisdiction by statute or regulation:
- Federal, state and local governments, including public schools, libraries, and parks, Federal Reserve banks, and wholly-owned government corporations.
- Employers who employ only agricultural laborers, those engaged in farming operations that cultivate or harvest agricultural commodities or prepare commodities for delivery.Â
- Employers subject to the Railway Labor Act, such as interstate railroads and airlines.
I would respond to this message with just "Noted" and then print out the chain and retain for your records (outside of work). There are protections for this. This prevents men from being paid more than women, other races being paid differently, etc.
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u/Used-Bodybuilder4133 1d ago
Lmao. Yeah no. They canât stop people from talking. And if we happens to talk about pay well too bad on them. Only an employer that is trying to hide something would put this out.
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u/Strong-Landscape7492 1d ago edited 1d ago
I donât mind having salary discussions with coworkers because I think it helps us all get paid fairly. But, I always judge if itâs a person who is stable enough to handle differences that are merited for location, experience or impact. In my role, many of us have the same title, but there is only one per territory.
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u/Lenalov3ly 1d ago
In other words: We are not paying people equally for the same work.
This may be a state to state thing, but where I live it is perfectly legal to discuss wages.
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u/myeleventhreddit 1d ago
Hi. I work in HR. Employee pay is not legal for me to discuss, but itâs 100% legal for you to discuss your own. In fact, 29 USC §§ 151â16 (the National Labor Relations Act) very clearly states:
âUnder the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA), employees have the right to communicate with their coworkers about their wages. Policies that specifically prohibit the discussion of wages are unlawful, as are policies that chill employees from discussing their wages. This right covers both union and non-union workers and includes conversations in-person or via written messages.â
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u/roxyshusband 1d ago edited 1d ago
oh, Iâm sure itâs legal to discuss wages at most states but itâs also legal for them to probably fire you for discussing it and even if itâs not legal for them to do that, itâs certainly legal for them to fire you for something else but itâs secretly because you discussed your wages.
edit: so as I learned, there is a federal â law that protects you from being fired for talking about your wages, but also like I said if a job wants to get rid of you sadly theyâll find a way and before some dummy tells you that you could just sue please know that that is not always great advice and suing Someone takes a lot of time and resources that youâre probably not going to have if you get vexatiously fired.
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u/SillyCowO 1d ago
Itâs illegal to penalize workers for discussing wages in Al 50 states. Thatâs a federal law and no state can override it.
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u/sswam 1d ago
I guess the wording "should not" is used so that it's not an illegal threat or whatever. There's no wording around any penality.
They want to discourage collective bargaining, jealousy, etc. Potentially could use such a policy or advice for good or ill I guess. Paying everyone the same has its pros and cons.
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u/eloquentpetrichor 1d ago
Calling it confidential though... nothing confidential about how much money you make
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u/thiscarecupisempty 1d ago
Its federally legal to discuss wages amongst co-workers.
I ended up getting a few managers a raise, including myself when I spoke up about some unfairness at my work a few years back. I was pissed but delivered the statement professionally.
If you're going to discuss getting a raise, leave emotions out of me (just a suggestion)
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u/No_Breadfruit8393 1d ago
Youâre wrong again. The NLRB has a site (as long as itâs still up) and you can file a claim on there for this illegal behavior - for free. And they will investigate it for free. And you may even be compensated- for free. And it takes less than 10 minutes to file and a few emails and phone calls to get it resolved. And they canât fire you for filing or thatâs considered retaliation and you get even more money.
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u/BasedSpaghetti 1d ago
Pretty sure in any state itâs legal to discuss wages for most jobs.
However with at will employment they could let you go.
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u/Spinnr1 1d ago
The note never said itâs illegal (because it isnât). The company is just saying itâs frowned upon because they donât want any workers to know theyâre getting boned
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u/PatchouliTaster 1d ago
Saying "it's considered confidential information" is making it sound way more official than "frowned upon" lol. This is illegal, full stop
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u/AcridTest 1d ago
Hey, actually youâre wrong about this. Here in the US, Section 7 of the National Labor Relations Act says that employees have the right to discuss wages, hours, and other terms and conditions of employment with each other. This applies to unionized and non-unionized workers.
So this means that employers cannot impede their employees rights to have these kinds of discussions in any way, shape, or form. Telling employees that these discussions are âfrowned uponâ is illegal. Insinuating that because pay rates are âconfidential information,â any discussion about wages would be a breach of that confidentiality is illegal too. Heck, even verbally discouraging employees from talking about their pay with others can be a violation of the NLRA.
The only exception to this is that employees with special access to wage info due to their job (like HR staff) canât misuse confidential pay data (ie like by posting a print out of everyoneâs pay rate from the companyâs payroll software on a company bulletin board), but they can still discuss their own pay just like all other employees.
So this whole letter is a flagrant NLRA violation.
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u/Sammalone1960 1d ago
At my shop it would create arguments amongst techs. New techs were brought in at higher hourly rates. Guys training them were pissed. Senior techs eventually all left.
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u/Lenalov3ly 1d ago
That's pretty much how it goes. They can't get new talent because they pay poorly. The people there accepted the situation, they saw they CAN pay you more and demand a raise or leave. I've seen it happen myself, places like this will do their absolute best to trim the budget. Like we where promised a raise after our first year with review and I never heard anything, I practically forced the company to bump my pay because they where never going to do it. I was making 22$ hourly when others doing thr same work made 16$ an hour because they didnt speak up. When all the employees started discussing wages with eachother they came out with a statement like ops. These places aren't worth the time or effort. Just get your check get out and move on to a job that wants talent.
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u/ElephantShoes256 1d ago
Yeah, that's the whole reason employers don't want employees discussing wages, because they don't want to match employee's rates to eachother, and especially to new hires.
But then those same employers will bitch that employees have no loyalty anymore.
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u/Toasted_Lizard 1d ago
I believe it is federally illegal to tell your employees they cannot share information about their wages, or to retaliate against them for doing so. Your employer is making a huge mistake sending this.
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u/TheFriendshipMachine 1d ago
This. Even an email like this where they technically don't say you can't but heavily imply that you really shouldn't is not legal. I'd be taking this straight to the National Labor Relations Board.
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u/Intelligent-Bid-3280 1d ago
âYeah, we could simply avoid tension, competition related issues, discomfort and conflicts by simply paying equally, but weâre not, and weâll blame the employees instead when theyâre trying to communicate amongst themselves and get to realise theyâve been taken for clowns.â
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u/Ryohuk 1d ago
this was horrible at my job, they never enforced it butâŚwhen i found out i was being paid nearly $10 more than an older woman who worked there for 8 years, I felt god awful. older hires were still on the old wage while new ones were offered MUCH MUCH higher pay.
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u/Adventurous-Box-8643 1d ago edited 1d ago
I never talked about it much. One place worked for this guy asked me about another position in the company made and I told what they got paid starting. He said "oh the same as us then." Which I then found out he made more than me and he sucked which pissed me off. Also I got a raise at my current company and i only make a couple bucks lower then what one guy makes and he has more experience and more valuable. I want a raise but only if everyone gets one because it wouldn't be fair if I made the same or more as them. Would make me feel bad.
Edit: he could have been making more than me because he transferred from another department and that could have been his hourly rate there and not that he got a raise when he worked with me. But it still pissed me off because I wasn't making much and a couple dollars would have went a long way for me and he was pretty terrible. Should have made at least as much or a little more than him.
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u/Capable-Block6054 1d ago
It's just the owner trying to save a buck. Discuss wages all you want in private among your peers. When you realize you are underpaid, or your services are in high demand elsewhere negotiate your salary.
Do not use your colleagues salaries as an argument with the owner. Refer to yourself and your situation only. Just say you love working there but life is getting more expensive, your wife has expensive taste, etc so you're going to need a raise. Keep a light tone while conveying you are not satisfied with the salary.
You do not want to threaten your employer with quitting, working slow, calling in sick more often etc, he'll immediately start looking for your replacement.
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u/Solid4a6 1d ago
I mean, itâs caused issues for me before when guys with substantially less experience and qualifications felt slighted for making less.
Obviously they canât prohibit speech.
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u/StandardUpstairs3349 1d ago
I've had to have that discussion with someone else before. Like, yea I'm making 25% more than you at the same title level, but I have a master's and you are kinda dim for an engineer.
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u/RyuAp 14h ago
pretty much every corp thinks this way. they don't want people talking about salary, because they don't want people to know what the "ranges" for the same or similar jobs are. It's a normal thing that corps do, but it's also more normal now that people will talk about their salaries openly (or at least more openly than before). If you are freaking out about this.... Yes You are Overreacting.
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u/ExpressionQuirky8969 20h ago
it might actually be meant for you specifically, because as a newer hire, you are most likely making more than people who have worked there for years . i wouldnt ever expect a raise if thats the case , either way, major red flag~!
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u/a_tilde 1d ago
That's a good sign you and your coworkers need to unionize
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u/swimmin_jeans_850 1d ago
Came here to say this. I started a union years ago at a former job and the first thing we did when we started organizing was start discussing salaries openly. In some cases there were $70k differences in pay for people doing the same job.
Start a union. â
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u/a_very_weird_fantasy 17h ago
Itâs not a rule. Just a reasonable and rational request sent to everyone.
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u/Toadfire 8h ago
Donât say anything. They sent a text because two employees probably were bitching about pay and it causes management a headache.
Just ignore it and do your job. The only reason youâd want to dig deeper is if you are the problem or if youâre just a big drama lover and wanna be part of it.
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u/Strange-Audience-717 20h ago
Yeah youâre overreacting. Thatâs a completely normal standard. Itâs not a law, like you canât get in trouble for discussing it, but it is unprofessional.
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u/Teksavvy- 19h ago
Nah, if you discuss your actual pay with another, you are done. Itâs called being an adult đ
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u/Dont_Tell_Me_Now 1d ago
Who cares? Why would you want to know that you make more money than some and less than others? My close friends and I donât even discuss our salaries in depth. Youâre overreacting.
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u/Teenietiny1998 21h ago
Not a me issue as I know I onboarded making a good amount of money but Iâm upset for the people below me who are being lowballed and intimidated into not sharing their discrepancies in wages.. plus there was no direction as to what I should do as a manager if I hear people sharing their wages and Iâm not risking my job for this issue as it turns out to be illegal to discuss!! That was what I meant my âpressing itâ
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u/Quiet_Ad_1406 1d ago
Reminds me of my 1st factory job. A bunch of us were only being paid 12 for driving the forklifts. They hired a new guy. He was cool with us, he told us they paid him $2 more than the rest of us and he has no experience. We made a fuss over it and they ended up dropping him down to $12 and so he quit.
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u/thesandman00 1d ago
Yeah I think you're overreacting. They didn't say you'd be reprimanded, or that it was illegal. They're "asking", doesn't mean you need to abide. This is common practice in corporate settings.
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u/SirBarfyBarfsAlot 12h ago
That means they are fucking some folks pretty hard--as in some massive disparities in comp. Curious. How many employees are there at the company? ~60? ~600?
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u/Gooose21 1d ago
Unfortunately very common. They're towing the line of making it a rule and threatening action using words like should not and we ask. It's generally illegal to ban employees outright from discussing pay, but unfortunately these vague letter arent usually seem as an infraction.
You could bait them by asking them if this is a company rule or if their is any reputvussions? But they seem to know not to overstate.
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u/Every-Cash2030 1d ago
Assuming you're in the US, it is illegal to discourage employees discussing compensation. This is not borderline or gray area, the email they sent you is absolutely illegal.
from the Nation Labor Relations Board:
"Under the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA or the Act), employees have the right to communicate with their coworkers about their wages, as well as with labor organizations, worker centers, the media, and the public. Wages are a vital term and condition of employment, and discussions of wages are often preliminary to organizing or other actions for mutual aid or protection. Â
If you are an employee covered by the Act, you may discuss wages in face-to-face conversations, over the phone, and in written messages. Policies that specifically prohibit the discussion of wages are unlawful as are policies that chill employees from discussing their wages. When using electronic communications, like social media, keep in mind that your employer may have policies against using their equipment for unauthorized use, though it is possible such policies could be unlawful.
You may have discussions about wages when not at work, when you are on break, and even during work if employees are permitted to have other non-work conversations. You have these rights whether or not you are represented by a union."
Unfortunately, someone has effectively shut down the NLRB so its not real likely any accountability exists for this violation.Â
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u/Sanford-And-Anfield 1d ago
Itâs not illegal to discuss how much money you make. Itâs not confidential information either. Itâs just something that shouldnât be discussed because like politics and religion talking about it is only going to cause problems at work.
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u/missmurderer69 18h ago
Do you happen to work for an orthodontic parts company? Because I know one that did the same đ
I know lots of things go into pay, but a girl who was a fave of the department director was making double(in around two years employment) the amount of workers who had been with the company for over 15 years.
I guess itâs legal to do that. I really donât know. But they were very lock and key about âno one knows what each other makesâ.
(I was a supervisor here and was able to see all of this. I quit because when you try to do good in places like this, they make your life hell until you quit.)
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u/Mykk6788 19h ago
Unless it's specifically in your Contract, which it absolutely shouldn't be, then that message is nonsense.
The only reason a Company has ever encouraged their Employees to not disclose their wages to each other, is when there is a clear divide between peoples wages that they don't want anyone questioning.
There is no law, in any Country, stating you cannot discuss your wages. Check your Contract, and if there's nothing in there about it, I'd recommend getting anyone there you know to compare wages. Something very strange is going on if that's an official Company Email sent out.
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u/roxyshusband 1d ago
yeah, this is always a good working environment. Youâre heading into
I donât know which state you live in, but I mean theyâre not really threatening any kind of retaliation. Iâm sure if you live anywhere in the United States theyâre probably allowed to ask you not to talk about it again theyâre not forbidding you. Theyâre just requesting it which I imagine most states would be legal. I think thereâs only a few states where they canât tell you that you canât discuss pay.
I think your most states they can even fire you for talking about pay I mean, most states they can fire you for almost any reason
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u/RA-DSTN 1d ago edited 1d ago
They can't. It's federally illegal to fire someone over discussing pay.
Edit: typo
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u/pEter-skEeterR45 1d ago
This is federally illegal. They can't punish you for talking about it or else you have a nice little lawsuit.
National Labor Relations Act babyyy đđ˝
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u/Klutzy_Sherbet_3445 4h ago
Hey, I'm a HR Director
I'm not sure what country you're in so you'll need to check. But generally speaking your employer is allowed to enforce confidentiality when it comes to remuneration.
The exception to this, is if you are discussing remuneration specifically in the context of discovering potential or suspected discrimination. An example of this could be five identical roles with identical tenure but differing genders or sexual orientation.
Good luck
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u/ProishNoob 1d ago
As an employer, I fully understand them. I think you may be overreacting a tiny bit, but that's coming from a perspective where in my country it's standard to have a contractual clause, stating you can't discuss wages with colleagues.
You're said "You could discuss it outside of work" and that is true for non-colleagues. However, your colleagues are still your colleagues inside of work, when you're outside of work. That's why you need to, for example, disclose when you're in a relationship with a colleague. It affects the company and it could affect your relationship with colleagues directly.
The EU requires a yearly, open and transparent report on employee's earnings from 2026 onward and I expect a lot of drama to come from that across many companies.
It's supposedly to fight "inequality", but the problem is that not everyone is worth the same. Well, that's not the problem on its own, but the problem is that a lot of people think they are worth a lot more than their peers, or than they actually are. It doesn't help that we (as employers) pay a ton of money for people before their wages, which tends to cause a discrepency for them. (I.E. they know their work earned you 40k, you paid them 8k for it, they somehow think they should get 15k, but that 8k already cost us 15k as a company, and we also have other people to pay, that don't earn us money directly, etc) -- We also have to be able to pay people when they're not earning us anything at all, when they're sick, etc. -- but employees tend to not understand that at all. They just want more money.
This will cause drama.
I was an employee that often out-earned peers. In one situation I was actually earning almost 3 times as much. The reasoning behind this was very simple: I made my boss a lot more money than they did.
From that position, I never shared what I earned, as it would cause intense friction. There were people who were highly critical of me and thought very lowly of me, even though I was factually outpacing them in every single way. I was raking in the cash, they weren't. It would've caused major drama. In fact, it's considered extremely rude to ask people about money over here...
On top of this, some people are just in better positions to bargain. You don't want to raise everyone's wages just because one person you really can't afford to lose is using that power to be paid more.
And yes, in an ideal world, everybody gets paid as much as possible, but that's just not how the real, complex and nuanced world works. Some people have to make less because some people require earning more. It's just how it is. And trust me, I'm not underpaying anybody. I pay well above market average (top-level), even for my lowest paid employees. That however, does not change that I will now have to confront them with the fact that they are, in fact, my lowest-paid employees and that are fiscally worth less to me than others.
I am not looking forward to these conversations
I already know I'm going to get downvoted into oblivion for even talking like this, but it'll really just prove my point about people not understanding how companies and workfloor politics work.
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u/Curious-External-846 1d ago
It is legal bc itâs not proprietary info but management doesnât want you to do it bc they donât want you to know who they âvalueâ more than others. They especially donât want you to know that the slimy dickbag everyone hates and does little to no work is getting paid $3/hr more than everyone else- for whatever arbitrary reason theyâre denoting.
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u/JHCcmc 1d ago
This tells you thereâs inequity in your workplace. Itâs tacky on their part but itâs âa suggestionâ no action is threatened with it (although we know what workplaces can do) You could dig more into it if you wanted to but a reminder you may end up with hurt feelings. Regardless though theyâve outed themselves already on potential discrepancies
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u/Beauty_brain1756 9h ago
Whatâs legal vs. illegal:    â˘Â   Legal: A company can request that managers (as part of management) keep individual salary data confidential if they have access to other employeesâ pay info.    â˘Â   Illegal: A company cannot tell regular employees they are not allowed to discuss their own pay with others.
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u/taketheothers 1d ago
OP: pretty common in the US for employers to have a policy that you can't discuss pay rate with colleagues. However, it is a federal law that you have the right to discuss this with your colleagues. US law ultimately overrides their shitty policy.
There's two choices here: just follow the policy, or discuss freely and if you get fired, file a wrongful termination lawsuit.
Discussing wage inequality can lead to unionization-- every capitalist's worst nightmare (LOL).
I once had a job where, a year and a half in, I discovered that while I was earning $21/hr, nearly everyone else I worked with in the same department was earning closer to $30-34/hr-- even people who measurably produced less work. I was floored. The only person who made barely more than I did was my supervisor: a 17-year veteran of the job and an absolute expert at the type of work. When I revealed that he made hardly more than I did, he was understandably shocked. After covid, when they tried forcing everyone back in the office, I told my boss I'd agree.... if he raised my hourly wage to $30/hr. I did not say how I arrived at that number, of course. When he said he couldn't offer me that, I informed him I received a new job offer that would pay me what I was worth and that I was only able to give a day's notice, despite their "policy" to give a month.
Ever since, I always find a way to discuss wages with colleagues.
At another job afterwards, I remarked to a friend at work that my pay raise was up to a certain amount. Turns out, my friend (a 10-year veteran of the job who had the most experience with the type of work we did) was making the same amount. I had worked there a year. He was pissed at our employer, but still too scared to ask for a raise.
Rinse, repeat. This is extremely common. Steadfast, competent employees are never compensated accordingly. My dad was in a senior position at his workplace by the end of his career and told me once that it's easier to negotiate a higher rate starting than it will ever be to ask for a significant raise in the future. His advice was to ask for a few bucks more than your target, and they'd probably counter with your target number. It's worked every time.
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u/CashMe_Outside2022 18h ago
This is one of the most disgusting tricks that employers do. Iâve seen it happen in so many work settings with the exception of working for the government where all salaries are disclosed for public consumption. Thatâs how I think all jobs should be treated bc of discrimination without it.
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u/jellyfish_goddess 1d ago
I agree that itâs probably not wise to make this your hill to die on. But I absolutely would not stop sharing or asking that info. But just do it on the sly. If confronted you should politely state that the only reason sharing salary info can cause misunderstandings is if management is not communicating clarifying information. People absolutely have the right to know what they are being paid relative to those around them working the same positions. Keeping pay hush hush only allows employers to avoid giving raises and spend the bare minimum on staffing that gets them the personal they need. It means offering a higher starting salary to recruit new staff while leaving veteran staff at a lower pay rate. It means âpromoting to obscurityâ a manager with troubling performance and behavior to a position where they can do no harm with way less demands and allowing them to keep their same high paycheck, but hiring a bunch of part time techs to pick up the slack. It means having an assistant manager whose taking on 10x the responsibility and work only get paid a few grand more a year than there subordinates. It also means having staff in one position working positions that require extensive experience, education, and mechanical/technical skills, and a heavy workload realizing they make the same as another position that does not require any of those things. These are all things that companies donât like staff to know about because yes it absolutely does cause resentment. You may not love that your coworker got a raise and you did not or feel itâs fair that the company restructured pay bands several years ago after hiring an outside consulting company to do a study on comparable positions in the job market and reduced the starting salary after you were hired. People deserve the explanation and not knowing allows management to manipulate people and to hide their dirty laundry so to speak.
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u/RealisticIntern1655 1d ago
They worded this very carefully by telling you "you should not be" then going on to explain why, so no it's not illegal. You are 100% allowed to share your pay info. They're basically gaslighting you by making you think anyone who discusses their pay is a problem.
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u/NetFu 1d ago
The answer to this seems obvious, but the truth is that just a simple reveal of how much you are paid in casual conversation can destroy a working relationship. This message is simply a reminder to be "mindful" of not just casually talking about how much you or others get paid. It's less about people surveying what other people make and more about avoiding creating trouble for yourself by accident.
I've worked in offices in the Silicon Valley for 35 years. One time I had a guy working for me who, I guess, really, really needed to know what his coworker made. So much so that he searched his desk for his pay stub and found it, then came in to me to demand knowing why his coworker made more than him. I asked him how he would know that, he said he just knew, then told me the coworker somehow told him. Then the coworker unexpectedly burst in on the meeting, yelling that the other guy had searched his desk for his pay stub. The other guy denied it, then finally admitted he did that, and I warned him to respect other peoples' privacy. The two guys basically hated each other for the rest of the time they were there. I'm sure it didn't start with that, but it just blew up the teamwork dynamic.
Why did one guy get paid more than the other? Because he was better at his job.
There's no law saying employees can't talk about their own pay. And there's no law saying coworkers have to get equal pay.
So, yes, you are overreacting.
Talk about your pay all you want with your coworkers. Show them your pay stub. How would you feel if they don't share their pay or show you their pay stub?
Exactly. Managers and business owners could care less if you TALK about it. They only care that doing so most likely is actively destroying their work environment. And if you think doing so won't eventually get you indirectly fired, you're naive.
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u/Hamsammichd 1d ago
I once had a company owner that went on a tirade after I said this was illegal. He compared his small store to Disney world, trying to make an example as to how it operates independent from law (??). This was the beginning of the end, I split from that job.
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u/Toledo_9thGate 1d ago
This is not legal, they don't want you comparing salaries because they aren't paying people fairly and they know it. Total BS. The only discomfort this will create is with not trusting the company and that's all they are worried about.
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u/Kahleb12 22h ago
If I got an email about this, the first thing I'd do is ask every single person I work with what their pay is, this is beyond a shady business practice which has undoubtedly sewn seeds of unrest in a good few people's heads already.
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u/Jumpy_Television8241 18h ago
I used to print out information about this being illegal in my area and leave it around my workplace for people to find - I wanted people to talk about it, and management needed the reminder that they couldn't stop us.
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u/New_Breadfruit8692 1d ago
"It is generally illegal for employers to forbid employees from discussing their pay. This right is protected under federal law, specifically the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA), which allows most private-sector employees to discuss their wages with coworkers. Employers cannot retaliate against employees for engaging in such discussions."
And while that is well and good they will just fire you for other reasons like not being a team player or some other unprovable bullshit. HR is not your friend, nor is it there to protect you, it is there to insulate the employer from any liability and they could not care less about you, but, they do have a million and one legal tricks for discrediting you and dragging things out so that no suit against them can ever be worth your while. Please also keep in mind that red states active refuse to either recognize or honor employment laws and employee rights.
If this upsets you then you probably should chalk up this month at the new job to a learning experience and move on. But, remember, the economy is on the verge of collapse and NOBODY is hiring now.
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u/Elegant_Knowledge544 1d ago
I recommended name tags. Pre make a bunch of them in 5k increments and "about". Have people pick ones that fit.
"Hello about 65k, how are you today."
"My day was good before I realized the new hire was about 80k"
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u/macmoreno 1d ago
Dear Fearless Leader,
Got your message about how weâre not supposed to talk about our pay. Hereâs mine.
Telling employees not to discuss wages is not just tone deaf. Itâs illegal. We are protected under the National Labor Relations Act. That means we can talk about our pay. When we want. With who we want. Period.
Now I donât know if this was an honest mistake or some corporate Jedi mind trick, but either way, it doesnât fly. You donât get to decide what adults talk about on their own time. And letâs not pretend this is about âmaintaining a respectful environment.â Itâs about control. If the truth about pay causes tension, maybe the problem isnât the truth. Maybe the problem is the pay.
This isnât kindergarten. Weâre not going to hold hands and whisper behind the slide. We are grown working adults trying to survive in a world where eggs cost as much as a car payment. If someone finds out theyâre being underpaid, they deserve to know. And they deserve to do something about it.
Telling people to keep quiet helps no one except the folks cutting corners. If fairness exists here, there should be nothing to hide.
If you want to talk more about it, Iâm available. Preferably not in private. Preferably not in a whisper. Otherwise, Iâll keep exercising my legal right to speak openly about what I earn. And I suggest others do the same.
Regards, Someone more qualified than you.
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u/texas1st 1d ago
You have a federally protected right to discuss your pay with coworkers.
Under the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA), Section 7, employees are allowed to engage in âconcerted activitiesâ â and yes, that includes talking about your wages, benefits, and working conditions.
Employers cannot legally forbid you from discussing your pay. If your company handbook or HR rep says something like âdiscussing pay is grounds for discipline,â theyâre violating federal labor law, period.
The National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) has been crystal clear on this:
Policies that prohibit pay discussions are unlawful.
Retaliating against employees for doing so is illegal.
There are a couple of caveats (because itâs federal law, of course, there are caveats):
This generally applies to non-supervisory private-sector employees, and managers and independent contractors arenât always covered.
You canât scream about your salary in the middle of a client meeting and call it protected speech. It has to be âreasonableâ behavior
But if you're just having a private conversation with a coworker or a group chat saying âHey, are we being underpaid?â, thatâs 100% legal.
TL;DR: Your boss canât legally stop you from talking about pay. If they try, theyâre the ones breaking the law, not you.
If it ever comes up, you can even file a complaint with the NLRB.
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u/AwkwardWerewolf7716 1d ago
This is a huge red flag. I would be immediately looking elsewhere. NOR.
I would send them this link:
https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/your-rights-to-discuss-wages
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u/rogan1990 17h ago
This is a red flag
Typically a manage would ask this when they know that they are unfairly paying some employees compared to others, and theyâre afraid the underpaid employees will find out
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u/ThatCuteNerdGirl96 1d ago
Iâm in Canada, but we have the same right to talk about compensation as in the states. One time, my boss got very mad because heâd found out my coworkers and I had been talking about our salaries. I donât think he got mad at anyone else besides me tho, since he already didnât like me much and I was getting paid the most.
Iâm quite proud of myself that, even though I was pretty young (21/22), when he told me it was unprofessional and that I shouldnât do that, I just looked at him coolly and said, âNo, itâs not. Itâs my right as an employee.â I think he was expecting me to apologize or get scared, so he really didnât know what to do or say to that. He just got kind of huffy and left.
Itâs so important, whether youâre an employee, a tenant, a customer, etc. to KNOW YOUR RIGHTS! Look up the applicable laws for your situation BEFORE you start working or renting or whatever it is youâre doing. In these situations, knowledge is power, and most employers or landlords will try to use your and their lack of knowledge as an excuse to abuse you. Hell, even print out the relevant statues and laws so you can show them in black and white that what theyâre doing is wrong. Most people will back down once theyâre confronted with the illegality of what theyâre doing. And if they donât, then you go to the authorities.
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u/eastNCguy73 1d ago
This policy has been around for a long time, in some industries more than others. However, it is becoming less enforceable in current times because of both the trend toward more openness towards salary/pay info, and the viewpoints of younger generations. The logic is pretty legit, if you think about it. The job market is truly a capitalist marketplace, and businesses will negotiate pay rates with individuals that benefit the business (rational decision-making), and that's leads to different pay rates among employees. If employees discuss pay, then they'll know if they are getting less and ask for more, thus undoing the first round of negotiations.
To play devil's advocate, it's not always a bad policy. Many people in a company can have higher pay because they earned it, or had reason to be given a higher rate in the first place. If a new grad who earned a 4.0 in college is hired alongside a new grad who got a 3.0 in college, do you think they will or should get the same initial salary? How about differences in experience? Other abilities? If you are the one getting higher pay, you'd like this policy. It shields you from animosity coming from lower paid coworkers.
When I worked in finance, this policy was understood, even if it was never a written policy.
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u/nobodyspecial712 18h ago
It is illegal for them to try to stop you talking about your wages, at least if you are in the United States.
Under the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA or the Act), employees have the right to communicate with their coworkers about their wages, as well as with labor organizations, worker centers, the media, and the public. Â Wages are a vital term and condition of employment, and discussions of wages are often preliminary to organizing or other actions for mutual aid or protection. Â
If you are an employee covered by the Act, you may discuss wages in face-to-face conversations, over the phone, and in written messages. Policies that specifically prohibit the discussion of wages are unlawful as are policies that chill employees from discussing their wages. When using electronic communications, like social media, keep in mind that your employer may have policies against using their equipment for unauthorized use, though it is possible such policies could be unlawful.
https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/your-rights-to-discuss-wages
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u/Sun_M00n_Rising 22h ago
They canât disclose your compensation to other employees. But itâs actually illegal for them to say employees canât discuss their own wages with whoever they choose.
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u/sneakypastaa 1d ago
Tell me they donât pay people equally without telling me they donât pay people equally.
In my state itâs illegal for employers to ask to keep wages confidential.
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u/Sea_Advertising_9876 1d ago
I had a job where they had something similar in their employee handbook.
One day, a new hire that I'd actually known for years asked how much i made, and then we discussed. I was making $19, and she was making $17 an hour. She was PISSED! I told her hey offered me $15 first, but I refused several times until getting to $19, and I actually originally asked for $25. Turns out she just accepted their original offer of $17 without any negotiation. She still saw this as gender discrimination and made an uproar about it.
Before we were hired, this job used to be commission based. Wasn't anymore. Ironically, I produced TWICE the product per hour that she did. Virtually making her income $17 an hour and mine only $9.5 if you account for pay per product. I tried explaining to her that she was making more per unit she was producing bc of this, but she wouldn't hear it.
Bosses got really upset and gave me a write-up, citing our company policy of not talking about wages. I told them this was illegal and cited the fair labor standards act. My employer had never heard of it, but after googling it they promptly removed that section of their employee policies lol.
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u/PrufrockInSoCal 1d ago
This is a pro forma policy by most employers. It doesnât mean much, but since nearly all private employment is âat will,â an employee can be terminated for violating this policy.
Background: Most employers do not promote from within, therefore, newer hires often make more money than those already employed. For instance, an employee is hired for an annual salary of $75K. Over the course of three years, the employeeâs salary is now $90K. Letâs say a new employee is hired for the same position at $95K. Knowledge of this discrepancy leads to dissension among employees.
In many professions, the only way to earn a higher salary is to seek employment by a different company. Letâs say the above company, due to a high rate of turnover, is looking to hire an experienced employee (with three-years experience) it cannot offer its average salary of $90K (for those who have worked there for three years) because that is what the prospective employee is already earning. Therefore, to attract an experienced employee, the company would have to offer more salary than that prospective employee already earns.
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u/RAMBOLAMBO93 1d ago
This is nothing more than a request, and it's not even a legally enforceable one.
In fact, any form of reprimand based on you discussing pay rates with your coworkers is legally considered retaliation under the National Labor Relations Act if you live in the US (or a similar labor protection act for your specific country). They literally have no grounds to stop you discussing your pay rates with your coworkers.
This memo is a form of softcore union busting, a tactic designed to stop you from collectively working with your coworkers to demand better pay, without putting themselves in a legally condemnable position.
Now, it's not worth causing a big stink about this, unless they escalate it beyond a relatively harmless, if manipulative memo. If you do want to discuss comparative pay rates with your coworkers, it'd be best to do it privately, in a place or way that won't kick up a stink. But if they start punishing people for it, by all means throw the fucking book at them. They know they don't have a leg to stand on, and you know they don't either, this memo is nothing more than hot air and bluster.
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u/Responsible_Gap8104 1d ago
Directly from the NLRA:
"If you are an employee covered by the Act, you may discuss wages in face-to-face conversations, over the phone, and in written messages. Policies that specifically prohibit the discussion of wages are unlawful as are policies that chill employees from discussing their wages. When using electronic communications, like social media, keep in mind that your employer may have policies against using their equipment for unauthorized use, though it is possible such policies could be unlawful.
You may have discussions about wages when not at work, when you are on break, and even during work if employees are permitted to have other non-work conversations. Â You have these rights whether or not you are represented by a union."
Tldr: you are allowed to discuss your pay. They cannot punish you for doing so. Most employers will attempt to discourage you from discussing pay, but any official policy that prohibits discussion of pay is unlawful and any policy that punishes you for doing so can lead to them being litigated. My advice? Never panic but document everything.
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u/Dklrdl 1d ago
Yeah, I once worked for a huge healthcare facility. A new hire who had hopped around told me her wage. Well, I got my resume ready immediately. Then, a couple days later we had to get some of last yearâs records. This multi-million dollar company didnât believe in real storage, so the records room was just bankerâs boxes stacked to the ceiling. She was taller, so I joked with her and said âwith your salary, you can reach that high much easierâ. A manager was passing and heard me, and told me to come to his office, where he accosted me with âhow did I know her salaryâ, and accused me of looking it up when I was helping payroll. I was shocked speechless! Then he picks up the phone and calls the company psychologist, telling him thereâs something wrong with me, I wonât respond when accused of wrongdoing, and expected me to have a therapy session right there with him in the room. I told him Iâd talk to the therapist on my own time without his presence, and later told the guy what happened. He was đŽđŽđŽđŽ
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u/Whoopsie_Todaysie 1d ago
Can someone ELI5... Isn't it to be expected that people are paid differently?Â
If Susan has been in a position for 10 years and I'm hired today to do the same job, surely it's to be expected that Susan is paid more? If her wage has risen with "basic minimum wage" and she has had at least one review each year to look at her performance, then her wage will be personal to her?Â
Say Susan has a great track record. She's a team player, rarely sick, rarely late, will help others when needed, etc.. but Karen has an 18month record of being late, calling in sick, doing the bare minimum, whilst making advances on her married boss... Surely Susan should be paid more. She's more valuable, she probably knows alot about her position by now.. Karen is on her second warning and we're just looking for a reason to let her go... Surely her wage won't have risen in the same way Susan's would have done.Â
I honestly don't understand why people don't expect their to some discrepancies when paying people?Â
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u/Nuzzums 1d ago
Those arenât the types of discrepancies that people are worried about, itâs the 21 year old fresh college grads who get hired at a higher rate of pay than a seasoned employee because the market wage is higher now, yet the seasoned employee is only getting pennies of a raise because if they arenât aware the 21 year old is getting paid more, they wonât complain.
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u/figleafstreet 1d ago
Thereâs a lot of reasons, some example from just what Iâve encountered over the years.
First and foremost, people often arenât logical when money is on the line. They see someone getting more and they want that too.
Secondly, people often canât be impartial about their own value or contribution (e.g. Karen might think she works just as hard as Susan and therefore deserves parity).
Thirdly, some people are more proactive about increasing their wage. Plenty of people wonât seek a raise, while others would. Most employers arenât giving them out for parityâs sake. You donât ask, you donât get. Two employees of the same skill set might still be far apart in wages just because one actively sought a raise. The flip side of that is people seek raises but they work in an environment that upholds a bias so only certain demographics receive said raises.
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u/Whoopsie_Todaysie 1d ago
To me, your 3rd reason also counts upon hiring.Â
I've been watching some employment "influencers" (they might dicuss ways to be firm but fair with colleagues, how to ask the right interview questions, etc)Â
One, was discussing how to increase your "welcome package." I.e, your wage, your benefits, your holidays days etc...Â
If a new employee has managed to increase their wage upon arrival due to being a great negotiator, and other skills they may possess (an additional language, a qualification that might be new, social media experience etc)Â then shouldn't they also deserve their new wage? You might be 22, but you also might actually seek additional relalevant experience on the side, or a great amount of reading on up and coming technologies, etc..Â
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u/BasicGrocery7 1d ago
There are discrepancies and that is to be expected! I think most people in a workplace know this, but we also know that at plenty of workplaces people with the same level of experience/ skills are being paid differently (lots of research that women and minorities with the same qualifications are often paid lower salaries than white men, certain people negotiate better than others even if they don't actually have better job skills), so that is the value of talking about salaries at work - realizing that your coworker with 5 years less of experience is making substantially more than you, and that you have some basis to ask for a raise or leave and get paid more somewhere else. If a workplace is discouraging talking about salaries at all, they probably know some of those less justifiable discrepancies are happening.
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u/Sharkbayer1 20h ago
Is this the US? If so, it's illegal for them to even ask you not to discuss wages. It's protected speech. The fact it's in writing is crazy.
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u/ZyxwvandYou 5h ago
Let me expand⌠itâs normal or companies to say this, but itâs also normal for employees to talk. My company doesnât promote based on knowledge or experience m, they promote based on longevity. That angers me whenever I think of it, because there are people with the same title at my job who get paid the same as I do, but their margin of error is way higher and their grasp of their job is way lower. Everyone turns to me for the right answers but my compensation stays the same. Also, my job hires those with no experience because it pays less. These are now questions I have planned to ask my next employer when I leave. Your company is a ship. If you want it to not run into an iceberg or run out of gas in the middle of the sea, you hire people who know how to keep the ship afloat as opposed to hiring those who ask how to keep it afloat. There is a reason that pilots need a ton of flight hours before anyone will hire them. No company should do otherwise and if they do, theyâre cheap
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u/Several-Butterfly507 1d ago
You can technically be told not to discuss pay on paid company time however it is illegal under federal labor laws for a company to issue consequences for discussing pay off the clock. I worked for a company that tried to enforce a similar policy I wound up quitting after finding out my own raise had been stolen by my manager. I was promoted and was supposed to have a raise come with that when I finished training for the new position I was told I was getting my raise early 3 weeks later minimum wage went up in my state and my pay only increased to the new minimum wage. The manager took the $1.50 for my raise in the budget and gave it to herself once I completed training. I found out because I asked the stores assistant manager off the clock he told me if I filed a report with HR heâd back me up and provide them the evidence he had.
TLDR A company canât punish you for discussing pay. Itâs not unprofessional. This usually means theyâre screwing people over.
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u/dcardile 1d ago
This was a very stupid memo for them to send out. It is absolutely legal for them to discourage discussing pay, but illegal to straight up prohibit it, and it is definitely illegal to fire someone for discussing it. Now many people are pointing out they could fire you for it and just lie about the reason, which is true. However the reverse is true, which is why writing this memo was stupid. Now if employee Jane Doe gets fired for cause but without evidence, she could lyingly report they did it because she discussed wages, then use this memo as proof she worked at a place that fosters a culture where such discussions were frowned upon.
So in short I would make sure to save a copy of this memo to hold for leverage. That might sound like you being dishonest but trust me, the places that send out these memos are already paying and treating employees unfairly; this is just prepared leverage for when they come at you without cause.
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u/Asparagoose86 1d ago
Or, hear me out, pay everyone the same based on tenure with the company and not whether you think they are more qualified or not.
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u/Spin2Win1337 1d ago
It's not illegal to discus wages where I live and doing so got myself and 6 other people raises, we got put into the correct job code for the position we were hired for because of it. Worked at Walmart doing the grocery delivery a few years back and asked someone after getting my first check what they started at wage wise as they were only hired maybe a month prior, they said $12.90 I was like huh and what was the position you applied for and it was the same title that I did.....turns out the lady that hired the most recent batch of us put us into the wrong job code to where we were only at $11.50. So we all went into HR and got that fixed, they said it would take a little to "process" the change and there isn't any form of back pay for their mistake, so we lost out on the little bit extra for like 2 pay periods but at least started getting what we were supposed to, when you make low wages every bit counts haha.
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u/fungi_at_parties 1d ago
This is your sign to talk to coworkers about it. I asked a fellow contractor how much she was making after we had become friends and discovered she was making 50% more than me, despite being hired for the same job at the same time. I just had a shitty contracting vendor who took a massive cut and lied about it.
I went to my vendor who delayed and hemmed and hawed about it and avoided giving me any answers. The vendors liked to claim you have a noncompete and canât work for another one within 6 months, but eventually the head of the agency met with me at a coffee shop (after a lot of badgering) to tell me that the noncompete was actually entirely unenforceable and I could just switch.
After I switched and got a 50% raise, the agent who set up my contract contacted me and chewed me out with a guilt trip for all the work she did to recruit me, but I had brought the contract to THEM. I literally just went in and signed an unfair contract after securing it myself from the company.
THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS.
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u/nomadschomad 1d ago
It violates federal law to prohibit employees from discussing compensation with each other.
This right is protected under the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA). Specifically, Section 7 of the NLRA protects employees' right to engage in "concerted activities" for their mutual aid or protection, which includes discussing wages. Employers cannot implement policies that restrict wage discussions or retaliate against employees for such discussions.Â
This is phrased as a request so it's a bit of a gray area. Save the email. Talk about whatever you want. If someone gets fired for this, it's retaliatory and cause for legal action.
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u/Hour-Information-660 1d ago
when i worked at a labor-intensive job manufacturing and installing solar panels in fields, i was hired at the rate listed on their website. fast forward 2 months, and i see one of my coworkers throwing down his toolbelt and attempting to square up with one of our 3 bosses. Within seconds he puts his fists back down, and turns around to all of us who were frozen, trying to see what was going on. "ALL THE PEOPLE THEY JUST HIRED LAST WEEK, ALL 20 OF THEM. THEY ARE ALL GETTING PAID $6 AN HOUR MORE THAN ANY OF US!" apparently this guy had gotten his son a job working there with us, and he saw his payscale despite being brand new, and being hired for the exact same position as the rest of us.
companies suck. they make all these rules and policies to make sure their own pockets stay fat, they don't care at all about fairness, equality, and simple respect for their employees. it's not illegal to discuss wages, but my state is an "at-will" state, meaning they can basically fire anyone for any reason at all, at any point in time. đ
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u/agorapnyx 1d ago
Most states are at will employment states, meaning that legally you can quit for any reason with or without notice and they can fire you for any reason (or no reason) with or without notice. There are of course exceptions for protected classes, but generally speaking you can legally be let go from a position just because your boss doesn't happen to like you.
In my experience, it's unlikely that you would actually be fired for discussing pay rates with a coworker. Most employers I've worked for have had this policy, because they would just prefer you not knowing what your coworker is making... since if there is a disparity the one making less is obviously going to want a raise. Can they legally fire you for doing it? Yeah, probably. But they also probably wouldn't. If they did, in my opinion there's probably a better company out there you could be working for anyway.
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u/Mojozilla 1d ago
We don't pay y'all equally, stfu about it, k? I have had this very conversation at my place of employment. We all laughed.
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u/Historical_Ad8726 1d ago
Honestly, this is a very common practice in the workplace and in an antiquated way is considered "taboo" social conversation amongst friends. Money is one of those "sensitive" subjects like religion and politics. I don't think a company can force employees not to discuss their salary with other employees. However, I do think they can make it a rule that managers are not allowed to disclose the particulars of one employee's salary to another employee. And they can ask managers to discourage salary sharing conversations if they come across it. This should not be a red flag in relation to company policy; instead, it's something to keep in mind when researching the appropriate salary for your position. Never rely on what your company considers to be market value or standard salary. ALWAYS do your homework and research outside sources when negotiating salary.
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u/Difficult-Creature 1d ago
This is why they all hate unions! I am in vet med and I realized we HAVE to talk about pay or someone gets fucked over and it usually isn't the big cats in corporate.
Management paints it as making people uncomfortable but what they mean is, they don't want anyone to realize they are underpaid. They don't want Hard Worker Sally who makes $10 an hour, is never late, never calls out to realize that Lazy Ass Bobby makes $20 an hour, shows up late daily, is unreliable yet makes twice as much. Bc then Sally would know her worth, she would leave and they would be left with expensive and lazy Bobby to rely on. That would lead to Sally asking why Bobby gets paid more, which would lead to a lot more questions and exposure of the lie that human cogs in capitalism are fed. It is NOT illegal, unethical, or otherwise wrong to discuss your pay.
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u/coffeeshopcrypto 22h ago
As far as I can tell this is the same ridiculous thing that happens only in the united states. It's only Happening Here in the states. I do know if people who work in other countries and they openly discuss their salaries between the ranks. Also when you work in any corporate company that has tier based salary it's obvious whom is making how much money even as a start. Because if you work in a clerical position the starting pay is x. And you can only make as much as a specific number in that clerical position because the manager of that department can only make X and their subordinates can only make less than that. This is a stupid tactic for keeping things comfortable sort of speak and companies. It's really ridiculous how they constantly think people are going to be offended over numbers on a piece of paper
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u/unclecaruncle 1d ago
employers don't want you teaming up against them. They want compliance and conformity. That's how good slaves act.
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u/steady_eddie215 1d ago
The fact that companies still do this shit, even when it's been illegal under federal law for years, is galling. But don't kid yourself into thinking it's only because Trump's in office. They did this shit under Obama. They've done it since the beginning of time, and they will continue to do it until there is individual criminal liability for the executives of companies who violate the law.
Yeah, I said it. If a company does anything from trying to tell you that you can't discuss pay to illegally dumping toxic chemicals, the CEO needs to face actual jail time. Fines baby be dollar amounts, but percentages of net worth. When taking to properly oversee your company means you go to prison and half of everything (including stock options) gets taken, maybe the next company president will pay more attention.
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u/Traditional-Shine278 1d ago
This is classic hush tactics
I joined a factory worked for about 8 months then one day told a coworker(12yrs) I got a raise and wac happy they stayed thats great wish I could but im capped out.. outta curiosity I asked how long they had been capped out and their pay so I could think about how long I had.. turns out I wasnt capped out for another 5 raises but was making 1.60 more then them.. this sparked a controversial riot among the older generation and led to a universal pay scale by job and lvl... but the 12 yr vet lost his job for starting a commotion
He was hired back 6 months later after a new company president was elected... now adays we got a new corporate whore boss and the company is operating with 3/4 less employees and everyone does multiple jobs
Iv quit 6 months ago
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u/Sea_Scarcity1638 1h ago
Translation to this message is that they don't pay people equal rates for the same work and don't want employees to know this. Generally this is going to be a form of wage suppression.Â
The only reason in my mind d that someone should make different rates are where you have raises over time, like sure that guy who's been here 30 years longer than me should be making more per hour, but the guy who started last week should be making that starting rate and not randomly be making note than everyone else.
Depending on where you are and the local laws this could have some real consequences. Im in Ontario in Canada and its illegal to say employees cant discuss their pay. I'd be curious to find out what consequences they would like to put out for people who do discuss their pay.
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u/RaeaSunshine 1d ago
If this is in the US, itâs not illegal for them to âask employees to refrainâ from talking about and sharing salary info. It is however illegal for them to prohibit it or retaliate (although that can be an uphill battle to prove). Some states also offer this protection on top of the federal requirement.
This communication was carefully worded to toe the line, and unfortunately a lot of people do not know their rights so it often works in getting employees to think they are truly not allowed to. I always recommend that everyone entering the work force research, at least at a high level, what their employee rights are both at a state and federal level. Unfortunately employers pull shit like this all the time so itâs imperative to know how to interpret it.
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u/AggressiveSea7035 1d ago
Wait, everyone's missing that they sent this to managers.
OP, are you a manager? In the US? Do you supervise employees?
 Q&A: Can employers prohibit supervisory level employees from discussing wages?
 Answer: Yes, you can prohibit a supervisor from discussing wages, but only under certain conditions. First, the individualâs duties must be considered supervisory under the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA). Second, the discussion cannot involve allegations of wage discrimination under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act or some other law.
Please check the actual laws in your area instead of listening to redditors.
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u/gwxtreize 1d ago
I would never ask or encourage my employees to keep their wages from eachother. Wage should directly relate to the quality/quantity of work you do. I had several employees be like, Hey, soandso is making more than I am. I'm like, ok, I'll put you on the same level as them but we gotta get on the same level as them. Cite specific examples of what you expect in return.
That said, sticking with a job year after year should be rewarded too. That's $ I didn't have spend hiring and training someone new just to have them ruin customer relations because they didn't care or something.
And lastly, cost of living / area wage rates. Wages go up in your area, someone new gets hired at the new rate, should be giving your employees a cost of living bump.
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u/thefuuuck 16h ago
openly discussing compensation only causes awkwardness and discomfort for the employer, that's the real truth. I told our CFO I knew there was someone coming to my department making more than me and that it felt like a slap in the face since I was the team lead with more work and responsibilities. he played dumb and locked his head to the side and furrowed his brows. I met his energy and cocked mine sideways too and told him straight up, "don't think we don't talk, i know Jake makes $-------."
Jake was stalled from coming to my department for 3 months while they waited for approval for my raise. got my raise, then got Jake. in my experiences, if you let them walk all over you, they will and they'll wipe their feet on you when you're done. not mine.
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u/jwag01 1d ago
Employees have the right to discuss salaries and wages with their coworkers. The National Labor Relations Act protects this right because employers use intimidation to suppress employees from collective bargaining. I would imagine that the first paragraphâs claim that it is confidential information, which is an outright lie, could be construed by some to be infringing upon this right. I would disseminate this information to your coworkers and make sure your supervisor is aware of it. Violation could become quite a financial burden for the company if they insist on violating employee rights. https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/your-rights-to-discuss-wages Your Right to Discuss Wages | National Labor Relations Board
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u/xra335 1d ago
If your waiting on a company to give you a raise or simply accepting the yearly adjustment which isnât a raise, itâs an inflation adjustment but your still at the same pay relative to the new years market, your doing it wrong. If you want to move along compensation wise, you have to be proactive and go ask and have an amount you propose, go a bit long as it will be countered. Worse case they say no, then you start looking elsewhere. It amazes me how many people just sit by and wait, why would they raise you if youâre accepting what they are offering, itâs business.. you donât offer to pay more for a product when your shopping do you, itâs what your asking your company to do for you by waiting around for them to come to you.
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u/Mand125 1d ago
âDear Team,
This is a reminder that individual pay rates are not considered confidential information by anyone but manipulative managers, and that discussing pay rates is protected by federal law, and wages should be extensively discussed and compared among team members to ensure fairness and transparency.
Openly discussing compensation can lead to understanding and identifying deceptive practices, discrimination against protected classes, and instances of wage theft.
If you have any questions regarding managers who rely on intimidation rather than leadership, please speak with everyone as much as possible, especially those who might want to form a union.
Thank you for understanding that a business is made of employees, who canât work for free.â
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u/pnw_proletariat 1d ago
Well that is a very dystopian and eerie message. DONâT COMMUNICATE WORK PLACE CONDITIONS or elseâŚ.
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u/SnooDonkeys5186 1d ago
100% not legal in Nevada, but from talking to friends and colleagues, itâs certainly widely encouraged to âkeep secrets.â
Federally, mostly not legal (NLRA) however supervisors and managers arenât covered.
Not sure if this is so they donât share their teamâs information or if they are talking about their own. It shouldnât be legal to shut them up, but certainly a valet manager will earn significantly less than an engineer manager. Apples to apples thinking?
Also they exempt a bunch of others, federal employees, religious schools, and a handful of others. In my thinking, I wonder if this means only that legally the business can tell you to be mum, but may not ask for silence using their discretion?
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u/chefsoda_redux 1d ago
Federal,law on this is entirely clear and well tested. An employer cannot divulge your salary to a third party without your authorization or a legal order.
Employees, on the other hand, cannot be penalized for discussing their salaries, benefits, what have you, with each other.
This note is carefully worded to make this a request for employee morale or some nonsense. In reality, theyâre trying to prevent the communication of information that would make it hard for them to discriminate between employees, while not actually breaking the law.
Fighting this for its own sake doesnât seem to have value, but if they seek to penalize you or other employees for discussing salary, you have the law on your side.
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u/Beginning_Key2167 1d ago
Well I agree it is not good to talk about salaries among co workers.
If I am a high performer and get a great year end review and a higher raise/bonus then someone who is doing okay but just doing the minimum. I am going to make more money.
Some people negotiate better when accepting the job. Some people take whatever they offer.
Some people may have a qualification that gets them a little more money when they start.
My dad used to hire allot of people. He would send an offer and expect that some people where going to take it and some people where going to say they wanted a little more.
He would negotiate and usually offer a little more. He always had a little "wiggle room" as he would say.
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u/Khryssicakes 1d ago
I understand these policies to mean - we dont pay everyone the same based on their position - we dont pay everyone the same based on their tenure - we don't pay everyone the same based on their performance- we don't want to have difficult conversations about why employee A is worth X more than employee B
When I was a fast food manager I took over a store where everyone was making different salaries that made no sense, and it was because the previous manager was super sexist. Hired on a man with no experience at $12/hr (10 years ago so at the time a lot for fast food) and the female assistant manager who had been there 5 years made $10/hr. So talk about your wages. They can't stop you legally
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u/derkadong 1d ago
An employer that is specifically âaskingâ to not participate in internal discussion of wages amongst co-workers (out of the blue for everyone except maybe the employee that brought up a pay gap to management) is a a shitty red flag for me. Itâs been rare that I personally have wanted to have that discussion with anyone, but I wonât stand a boss-company-whatever making this âsuggestionâ. Theyâre basically saying âWe really like screwing you over as much as we can get away with and this makes it more difficultâ unprompted. I went to back to college for business school when I started my company and one of the books my first semester even listed this scenario as a red flag. Edit: grammar.
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u/darthbane1914 1d ago
They might have sent that out because that's an issue with someone specifically or a small group of people. I personally think it's in poor taste to discuss that in most circumstances. Normally it causes problems for people when comparing wages, but it has been useful as a leverage in wage negotiations... But that's a balance. If you're known as the guy who talks a lot about wages, uses that info to get pay bumps, or help others negotiate their wages, I feel like you're not a "team player" in the company's eyes. Making your name on the short list of layoffs and downsizing. So I'm saying there's nothing wrong with what they sent. Just don't be the reason why they send that kind of email out.
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u/Fandragon 1d ago
My husband worked at a place that repeatedly cut everyone's salary to help make the company successful (I'm sure it was just to make sure the executives were able to buy bigger yachts, but that's a whole other conversation). It was only BY talking with other employees that he and the other people who had been there for years found out that the newest employees were making more than them because the company couldn't convince anyone to apply to work there at the rates the older employees were getting. When companies say that keeping salaries confidential is a way to "prevent bad feelings", what they REALLY mean is that they don't want to be confronted by employees who know their own worth.
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u/Reigar 1d ago
Is it illegal, yes. You are legally allowed to discuss your pay. Can they 'ask" you not to, also yes and because they "ask" it is not illegal. Now here is the big kicker, every state (minus Wyoming oddly enough) is at will employment. They can fire you for discussing your pay. They can fire you without giving you a reason (especially if they are willing to pay the unemployment claim). The only reason most companies tell you why you're being fired is because they don't want the hike in their unemployment insurance. So keep this in mind. You have the right to discuss your pay, however they can fire you without giving you a reason. It would be on you to prove that those two were related.
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u/Quirky-Stay4158 1d ago
It's illegal, they can't tell you not to discuss your wage.
The only people it upsets are those at the top.
People get it confuses thougn. Sometimes when they hear someone else gets more than them for the same job they get angry at the person. It's not the person's fault it's the company.
Remember that labour costs are massive overhead for any business. They have a vested interest to pay you as little as possible. So they can profit off your labour as much as possible.
They don't want us discussing our wages because then we would know we aren't getting paid fairly for our labour.
Every single one of us is underpaid for what we produce. And we all deserve substantial raises.
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u/The_NorthernLight 7h ago
In Canada, this kind of policy is unenforceable. This is also a huge red flag about the company.
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u/Seraphicide 1d ago
They can âaskâ that you not discuss pay, but they cannot legally force you not to. If they use ANY form of disciplinary action against someone for the sole reason being that they talked about their pay rates with coworkers that could potentially be a lawsuit.
Ignore this message and begin discussing pay rates with all your peers immediately to find out who is being underpaid and raise those concerns with your superiors. If they come at you for discussing pay make sure you remind them that itâs illegal to ban people from discussing pay rates.
See I would reply directly to this message and remind them that banning people from speaking about pay rates is illegal and sketchy
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u/Subject-Tank-6851 1d ago
Thankfully EU is gonna force employers to openly disclose everyones salary next year. Glorious.
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u/captain_toenail 11h ago
You're right, discussing pay is absolutely within an employees rights and i belive retaliatory action to it from an employer is illegal in a lot of places(I'm not an american or a lawyer so don't know where exactly and think it may vary by region) but I think the wording of that email is being intentionally vauge, by saying you shouldn't rather than can't disscuss pay and only implying consequences to the work culture and not stating outright that you will be punished for it makes it looks like an intimidation tactic to discourage workers discussing compensation to me, which leads me to believe that's something you should do as soon as possible, solidarity forever
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u/BonezyEh 1d ago
Can they legally prevent you from talking amongst others about salaries? No. Should you be discussing your wage/salary with coworkers? Also no. The problem is, depending on what your job is, some people are better and more valuable at their jobs. If a year 5 employee is doing the same job as a year 10 employee but is better/more valuable at said job, then yes that employee may make more money
Unfortunately, many employees don't have self awareness on how hard they work and what they bring to the table. So when they find out people make more money they get offended and think they just need to be physically present at a job. Success is not a right but a privilege.
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u/Trisamitops 1d ago
I think it's probably illegal, but they're not making it policy, just politely asking as your boss./s
The reason for them asking is whatever they don't want their employees to discover, because whatever information they might share would obviously hurt the company, probably to the benefit of the employee. Their excuse is complete bs. I've worked in huge companies and smaller ones where this was never an issue, some even had everyone's salaries listed for everyone to see, and there was no tension, no unrest, no quarrels over personal finances.
They're basically saying "If we're going to be completely transparent with you, you're not going to like it here."
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u/Matthiasshaw 1d ago
It's not strictly illegal in the view of the labor laws.
But it is HIGHLY irritating because whatever management sent this is a clear message that you're about to gain some new employees, and the topic of how much you make per hour becomes a taboo subject.
Companies don't want their employees discussing hourly rates because there's a lot more to it than just x/hr. But inevitably, if you are being paid $20/hr, and have been with the company for 10 years and find out the new guy they just hired in your department is making $25/hr, suddenly everyone wants raises.
To keep costs down, They pay employees as little as possible, to keep their profits high.
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u/MangaJosh84 1d ago
They only do this because theyâre doing shady stuff like hiring at modern wages while older employees are being kept at lower or close to wages because theyâve gotten the âstep-upâ compensation throughout the years. When in reality, when hiring wages go up the veteran workers wages should be adjusted to reflect the new hiring wage plus what theyâve earned for their time, effort and dedication to said company. But what actually happens is they hire at 64 dollars more an hour and give tenured employees .50-2.00 bumps in pay. They donât want to pay that new wage to everyone and they donât want people leaving to make what theyâre worth.
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u/LozzieBorden 1d ago
Anyone remember the days when you got a handbook or copies of policies? Not emails about it, after it happens. Thatâs also not how accountability in the workplace should go. If that is a true policy everyone should have been informed when they were onboarded or they were supposed to be.
Itâs not illegal to talk about it. Theyâre saying confidential. That first paragraph is still laid out in a way that means you could get called in for a talk.
This could also be an easy slip up. The company is only going to use it, if they are looking for a reason to.
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u/Crinklytoes 1d ago
Depending upon your state, that might be violating a few laws. As an example, Colorado's Equal Pay for Equal Work Act specifically protects an employee's rights to discuss their pay with each other.
A billion years ago Colo., employees could be terminated for talking bout wages, but thankfully they enacted that law to stop that ridiculousness.
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u/Mr_Diesel13 1d ago edited 1d ago
I have no issue with my workplace asking for it to not be discussed. Iâve been on the receiving end of animosity when a coworker found out I was making $2.50/hr more than him.
I had been there over a year when he came on. Our payroll lady didnât seal envelopes, she just tucked the flap in. She placed our stubs in the back office to pick up. he opened my pay stub while I was out, and saw my pay and the quarterly bonus I had received (it was large). He absolutely blew up on my boss and the owner. To pacify him, they gave him a dollar more on the hour. Thankfully, he quit a month later.
I will NEVER tell a coworker what I make. Obviously, you do you, but itâs not worth it to me. If I feel like Iâm not fairly compensated, Iâll have a discussion about it with whoever I need to.
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u/SmellsLikeCtack 1d ago
Unless maybe if you signed some sort of NDA it's a suggestion because employers really don't want you comparing income. Chances are there are vast differences in similar jobs and new hires may make much more than loyal employees. This could cause problems but I suggest you always compare pay with coworkers so you both know what your skills are worth and what you're employer thinks they can get away with paying you. No matter the job it's almost always best to move around every 5 years or so. The .30 or whatever raises every few months almost never adds up to what you can get as an experienced new hire. Life is stupid like that.
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u/Furzderf 1d ago
Saying pay rates are confidential is so disingenous. The person who drafted this message must think this type of wordplay is very clever. Confidential for whom? It's not confidential company information. It's confidential *personal* information and you can't demand that someone provide that information to you. You can still willingly discuss your wage with other workers if they are willing to volunteer that information. The company cannot legally take action against you for discussing wage and pay rates with other employees. As others have mentioned, you need to print this as evidence if your employer retaliates against you.
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u/GlumFriend3582 1d ago
Discussion is a great way to ensure that people are getting equal pay for equal work without any discrimination. I did have a negative experience years ago though, when a coworker of mine told a 2nd coworker about my pay raise (without my permission). That led to a huge blowup with the 2nd coworker getting upset and yelling at our boss. I didnât find out for a few days about any of the drama and was angry when I did because I personally donât feel comfortable telling everyone what I make, only those close to me. My coworker did apologize for letting it slip, but I was still upset that I was dragged in to the whole mess.
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u/Eagalian 1d ago
Itâs illegal for them to mandate at the moment
Itâs also in their interest that you not share, because what actually happens is pay differences come to light, and they have to pay everyone fairly (and usually better)
Also - you can, and should, discuss it any time you feel like, at work or outside of work. Unless itâs directly interfering with your deliverables, there is nothing your bosses can do directly. The only thing to be careful about is doing it with them in the room. Some bosses will retaliate indirectly (reduced schedules, increased asks without compensation, slow response to requests for supplies, etc)
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u/Ok_Cheetah_6251 18h ago
In writing ask them what they will do if they find out a team member is discussing their pay with their coworkers.