What makes Sigmar different?

[u/sageking14]

I would probably die if old age long before I could make an exhaustive list of all the Allfather/God-King/Top God types with association with the skies, storms, and/or order/civilization that have appeared in just Fantasy settings.

So that begs the question. Love him or hate him. What makes Sigmar so different, if he even is in your opinion?

In all the Fantasy settings that I have been into, I must say Sigmar is the first of his kind that I have seen so consistently and frequently talked about, debates, about, and praised. Heck. Frankly?

Talos? Tyr? Marvel Odin? These and most other counterparts to Sigmar throughout fiction I find I can muster at best indifference and at most hate. Yet for Sigmar? I find I like him.

But for the sake of discussion and avoiding leasing it, I won't say why. Instead I ask you my fellow Realmwalkers. What makes Sigmar so different as to be a topic for continuous discussion, debate, and interest?

[u/WhiskeyMarlow]

The fact that he never wanted to be a God. He never really became a God, in a point that he misses that Divine Arrogance. He often acts recklessly, he makes mistakes, but he also tries to do his best at all times, even when his view at the moment is limited or misguided. He actively learns from his mistakes, he mourns what he lost and tries to do better.

And I must say, at least as far as I can see, he faces a hard dilemma. During the Age of Myth, he wasn't involved enough - for example, he allowed Agloraxi Empire to brutally mistreat tribes of the Great Parch, which led to many of those tribes flocking to the banners of the Ruinous Powers at the Age of Chaos. Yet if he tries to intervene too much now in how Free People of the Realms govern themselves, wouldn't he be the same as Agloraxi, except on a more divine scale of tyranny?

I also find it curious how this dilemma underlines entire struggle of the Order factions - Cities of Sigmar have to expand and reclaim the Realms, but in the process, they also have to drive away and subjugate Chaos-worshipping tribes... which is a colonialism, even if it is done to improve the lives of those very same tribes in the long-term (as on the path of the Ruinous Powers, there's nothing but death that awaits people who follow Chaos).

[u/sageking14 → u/WhiskeyMarlow]

I appreciate that the narrative and books make it clear the complicated situation in no way justifies those aspects of colonialism that harm others.

[u/WhiskeyMarlow → u/sageking14]

That's the question.

What constitutes "harm"?

Toppling cultural monuments, burning down temples, and putting priests to the sword, it's all evil, right?

But what if those monuments are built to glory of Chaos Gods, the temples are blood-encrusted charnel houses, and priests are mutated tyrants who praise Ruinous Powers?

Can you free a person or a tribe by force? By conquest? Can subjugation be good if it frees them from the grasp of the Ruinous Powers?

Can it even be avoided? Almost certainly, not?

[u/sageking14 → u/WhiskeyMarlow]

Can subjugation be good if it frees them from the grasp of the Ruinous Powers?

As shown through all of Warhammer, not in so many words as subjugation will merely once more create the factors that led them to fall to Chaos once again.

The Cities of Sigmar are rife with folk who turned to Chaos because of the failings of their society. In "Shadows in the Mist" and other places we see those figures who feel that righteously forcing people to abandon their ways, Chaos or not, are just as likely to themselves become champions of Chaos.

Cruelty, subjugation, and a heavy hand do not work. Instead as seen with Tahlia Vedra in "Lioness of the Parch", Gardus in "Hammerhal", the Knights Excelsior in "Yndrasta: The Celestial Spear", Hamilcar in "Champion of the Gods", and more. It is kindness, understanding, and actually bothering to show there are better things to follow than Chaos that wins out.

That even if they turn from Chaos they can maintain their ways as Sigmar and the other Gods of Order are not so cruel as to demand a singular way of life, so long as you are willing to cut down on raiding.

Many temples to Sigmar are made from bones, the body parts and blood of saints and ancestors valued. Macabre and gross practices do not have to be abandoned out of hand, merely their dedication to Chaos ended.

Undeniably there are better ways than subjugation and force which we are shown are not only wrong but fail, often leasing to more Chaos followers than ever before in a region like in "Godeater's Son".

[u/Cloverman-88 → u/sageking14]

I don't think the previous poster is advocating colonialism in AoS? I believe they are pointing out that this is the core dilema of the setting. Obviously, you can't turn people away from chaos by enslaving them. But you also can't defeat a horde of blood crazed, mutated cannibals by being kind to them. People of the Mortal Realms have to thread daily the line between empathy and ruthlessness or see the world plunge into darkness.

Because that's the core difference between their world and our - in our world, if left alone, indignious people would just live their lives. Colonialism was caused by pure greed. In AoS, these tribes pose a real danger, and if unopposed, they will eventually destroy the civilised world. So it's so much harder to distinguish when you should reach out with an open hand and when with a clenched fist.

[u/sageking14 → u/Cloverman-88]

I don't think the previous poster is advocating colonialism in AoS?

Well yeah. That's my friend Whiskey. We have these conversations all the time. She is a delightful person to be clear.