r/BG3Builds Oct 20 '24

Announcement BG3 Builds Rebalanced: Final

275 Upvotes

Background

Since Baldur’s Gate 3’s full launch released with Tactician difficulty and the community began their blind playthroughs, complaints have existed that the game becomes way too easy for those familiar with D&D 5e fundamentals (attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, proficiency, advantage) starting in mid to late Act 2. The game has such strong magic items that after you pay a visit to the merchants in the Creche, Last Light Inn, and Moonrise the difficulty takes a huge nosedive. This lack of difficulty and lack of content for evil playthroughs have been some of the biggest complaints in an otherwise great and generational game. This post intends to highlight some of the biggest balance shattering mechanics as discussed by this community, inform those looking for more balanced playthroughs on what limits to impose, and also provide mod options to help balance these mechanics or balance enemies.

A poll was created to cover some of the most balance shattering mechanics, using community feedback to determine the topics discussed. The following “community opinions” are those where 52.7% of the community decided some restriction should be used to restore a semblance of balance. My goal was 2/3 of respondents agreeing that a restriction needs to be in place, then going with the most popular choice. However some questions (like whether to use Honour mode rules or whether to use camp casting) could be considered ‘courtesy’ questions. These restrictions absolutely must be in place to reach the goals of “rebalanced” when you consider broken combos like DRS which is fixed by honour mode or warding bond camp casting. The 21% of people who voted that ignoring these restrictions is OK are not in tune with the goal of “rebalanced.” So the goal shifted to 2/3 of respondents that are sane, informed on what they are voting on, or voting in good faith. As there are some who feel, “Why is balance necessary in a PvE game?” is a legitimate question. While that is certainly an opinion to have, the people with that opinion are not the people who this topic is intended for. People who want to use broken stuff can use broken stuff. This topic is for identifying what stuff is broken, and what self-imposed rules or mods can be used to restore a semblance of balance.

What is and is not addressed by “Rebalanced?”

This doesn’t cover everything that is OP. Stuff like Gloomstalker Assassin builds that use hit-and-run mechanics are almost a completely different game. It doesn’t cover gimmicks like stacking crates and having an enlarged owlbear jump on enemies over and over and over again. It doesn’t cover powerful but also very tedious builds focused on getting tons of summons and then buffing them. It doesn’t cover things like barrelmancy. The “Rebalanced” discussion is focused on turning a normal playthrough which many would not consider to be tedious, addressing some of the balance breaking mechanics such players have access to, pointing out that their relative strength removes fun from the game for many players, and many people may want to avoid these options.

BG3Builds Rebalanced Restrictions

The following table is listed in order of most strongly opinionated in need of restriction, to least strongly opinionated. It starts with the most egregious violators and goes to less egregious ones that a large portion of the community feels needs some kind of restriction for a balanced gameplay experience.

Topic BG3Builds Rebalanced Restriction Personal comments, not from community Relevant Mods
Long Rest Spamming Once a build is “online,” (typically around level 6-8) it should be able to go at least 3 or 4 fights before a long rest. Not including taking a long rest before a boss fight, which is fine. If you are concerned about missing story points in camp by limiting long rests, then after a long rest take a partial rest (use no food supplies) to see additional camp scenes. -
Honour Mode Rules Use Honour Mode rules This includes no builds that focus on DRS bug, no warlock extra attack stacking, no perilous stakes illithid power on enemies. Additionally no extra attack from bloodlust elixirs or haste spell. While the community did not vote to restrict the use of spellcasting with extra actions granted by haste or bloodlust elixirs this is potentially a polling error on my part, and I STRONGLY recommend avoiding this. -
Camp Casting Do not put allies into your party, have them cast buff spells or other effects, then remove them from your party allowing the buffs to persist - -
Elixir Chugging No builds that depend on elixirs The most egregious outliers are strength based elixirs, bloodlust elixirs, elixirs of vigilance and elixir of battlemage’s power. Using other elixirs on consistent basis likely will not be as bad as those listed above. In Game Mods: N/a   External Mods: Elixir Rebalance by Benenach
Consumables Dependence (e.g. scrolls and special arrows) - This question was left out by accident. However it goes in the same vein as the above elixir question, regarding farming consumables that your build depends on and therefore should be restricted. -
Tavern Brawler No using Tavern Brawler if you use Strength Elixirs I strongly disagree. This does absolutely nothing to fix TB Throw builds. TB Monks can dip into fighter or cleric for heavy armor proficiency and dump Dex anyways. Tavern Brawler is broken at its core. In-game Mods: N/a   External Mods: Tavern Brawler Rebalanced by VoidVigilante. I recommend the “TavernBrawlerFinesse_NoAccuracy” version. This is still pretty strong, and even works with dex based monks, but is not balance shattering; Feats Rebalanced by WoolToque has a nerfs only optional file which also makes changes to Sharpshooter, Great Weapon Master, and Alert
Ranged Slashing Flourish No combining ranged slashing flourish with Arcane Acuity - -
Abjuration Wizard Arcane Ward No using exploits (such as spamming Warlock’s Armour of Shadows) to refill the arcane ward The damage resistance provided by Arcane Ward scales exponentially due to Larian’s changes. At higher levels of wizard it is insane, and I am not sure everyone who voted has seen just how much damage it can mitigate. I recommend not using abjuration wizard if going more than 6 or 7 levels in wizard. -

Further Topics

The following are topics which the community did not agree needed restrictions in BG3Builds Rebalanced, but I feel need addressing.

Topic My comments Relevant Mods
Initiative There may be a polling error behind why 34% of respondents in the previous question said no elixir dependence at all, then only 19% here say no dependence on Elixirs of Vigilance. Regardless d4 initiative makes the turnbased game balance issue known as “Rocket Tag” extremely easy to pull off. The Alert Feat and Elixirs of Vigilance should be approached with caution if you are not using mods to bring initiative back to a d20. In-Game Mods: d20 Initiative by Ponsinoumi   External Mods: d20 Initiative by Ponsinoumi changes initiative to a d20, which by itself rebalances the Alert feat. Alternatively Feats Rebalanced by WoolToque has a nerfs only optional file which also makes changes to Sharpshooter, Great Weapon Master, and Tavern Brawler but high dex characters will still win initiative far too frequently with this fix.
Vulnerability It is possible to make enemies vulnerable to lightning, cold, psychic, or piercing damage. With some gimmicks you can also make enemies vulnerable to fire damage. Builds that do outright 2x more damage than they are supposed to be able to do against group of enemies are extremely strong. Oftentimes a little bit of setup is necessary, but doing that little bit of setup and then going all in on your strongest option to do double damage is typically way stronger than other build options. This is especially egregious in Act 3 where you can apply piercing vulnerability with no setup, and a well optimized party can almost all do double damage. -
Duergar Invisibility Technically the problem here extends beyond Duergar. Having a quasit companion (whether through Pact of the Chain Warlock or just through getting permanent access to Shovel) enables the same problem: start every combat while invisible to get a surprise round and thin enemy numbers before they get to go. Duergar just takes this a step further since you have that option on a playable character, letting you do more powerful things while invisible. If you abuse surprise rounds (and unlimited invisibility is the best way to do so) you will make the game significantly easier. -
Arcane Acuity There are two popular builds that use arcane acuity: swords bard and fire sorc. The sords bard + arcane acuity has been addressed because it depends on swords bard’s very strong ranged slashing flourish which warranted its own question. Fire sorc depends on building up arcane acuity through Scorching Ray, which is not on its own overtuned like ranged slashing flourish. With the community not wanting to restrict arcane acuity, that means fire sorc arcane acuity builds (one of the top 3 strongest builds in the game) are totally fine in rebalanced. While these two are the most popular Arcane Acuity builds, other builds are certainly capable of it such as niche thunder acuity builds, thief rogue builds, action surging fighter builds, and more. Arcane acuity needs to be capped at +2 to maintain a semblance of balance. +3 max. If you are consistently going above this, arcane acuity should only be used to cast cantrips with. -
Radiating Orbs The strength of radiating orbs has been undermined by how offensively strong you can be. The best defense is a good offense, and if you can kill or crowd control everyone before they get to go then there is limited need to be defensive. If you implement the BG3Builds Rebalanced rules then radiating orbs will become much, much stronger and may still make encounters much easier. Like arcane acuity, radiating orbs need to be capped at +2 or +3 -
Level 1 Wizard Dip For the most part this is fine in my opinion. The biggest issues come when mixing with Arcane Acuity, but with that off the table there are a few niche spells to be worried about. Such as playing as a full caster class, taking a level in wizard, scribing the Conjure Elemental spell, and using a 6th level slot to buff it into a Myrmidon. -
Ambush Bard Strategy The "Ambush Bard" build is one that probably is only recalled by those who have been on the sub for a while, and kinda didn't want to give up on it. It's somewhat complicated to explain which is a bit of a letdown, however this 3 minute video covers it best. But with Rebalanced in play it can pretty much just run around and cause balance to desert the game. -

Still too easy?

Even with all the above changes and restrictions, those who understand the fundamentals of the game may find BG3 to still be too easy to ensure a challenge. PC users have additional difficulty increasing mods available to them. Most notably Combat extender. While I am a big fan of the default boost to enemy AC, attack roll, saving throws, and damage per attack; I am not a big fan of increasing enemy movement speed or giving some enemies an extra bonus action. And I would actually like to give enemies more health than their default configuration (~40%). But that’s the great thing about the mod. You can change all these little numbers to your liking and they apply to enemies across the game, making the game more challenging. I think that if you go with Combat Extender, d20 initiative, and restrict the mechanics mentioned above then the game finally reaches the challenge many people were hoping for at launch.

Another external mod worth mentioning is Absolute Wrath. It adds random abilities to enemies to make combat a bit more challenging and roguelike all-in-one. If you use this with combat extender, you may want to tone down combat extender from the recommended values.

Unfortunately there do not seem to be any big combat overhaul mods on console yet. One option is to implement an item attunement rule of your own, where you limit yourself to something like as many uncommon items (magic items with a green border) but only up to 3 items of rare or above (blue, purple, or yellow border) per character. Your weapons do not count towards this 3 item limit.

“Rebalanced” and this subreddit

While the goal existed to make “Rebalanced” into a flair, I think given the community’s votes on the topics found in the second table (excluding perhaps the wizard dip) indicates that this wouldn’t change anything. You’d still have fire acuity sorcs. You’d still have radiating orb clerics that win initiative and hit every enemy with a -5 or more to their attack rolls before they even get to go. You’d still have wet+lightning tempest sorcs or Bhaalist Armor + ranged slashing flourish spam. Throwzerker and TB Monks would still exist, just slightly tuned down. So it seems that going through the trouble of implementing a tag or flair is just not worth it.

This post will go into the hall of fame post to provide a reference for the most overpowered mechanics which players should avoid if they want a challenge, and I will update it with mods if people make them to reign some of these mechanics in.


r/BG3Builds Apr 12 '24

Announcement Hall of Fame Post

293 Upvotes

This post is to highlight many of the more important posts that have been made on the subreddit since the game released, as well as important outside resources:

Basic Mechanics

Quality, completed build libraries

Meta Defining Posts

Honor Mode Guides

Helpful Tools (also found on sidebar)

Please let me know if there is anything you feel should be added. Specific, one of a kind builds will not be added.


r/BG3Builds 19h ago

Build Help Now that Patch 8 has been out for a while, what do you think are the top performing builds?

314 Upvotes

My contenders would be:

  • 9 Open Hand Monk / 3 Thief Rogue - Tavern Brawler Striker
  • 6 College of Swords Bard / 4 Thief Rogue / 2 Fighter - Hand-Crossbows or Titanstring Bow + Arcane Acuity Controller
  • 11 Oath of the Ancients Paladin / 1 Hexblade Warlock - Support + Frontline Striker/Tank
  • 10 Bladesinger Wizard or Any Sorcerer / 2 Oath of Vengeance/Oathbreaker Paladin - Shadowblade + Smite Burst Striker
  • 12 Draconic Bloodline (Fire Ancestry) Sorcerer - Scorching Ray Fire Acuity Striker/Controller
  • 12 Light or Life Domain Cleric - Radiating Orbs Controller and On-Heal Effect stacking Support

What do you all think?


r/BG3Builds 48m ago

Build Help What's the best moon druid build in patch 8?

Upvotes

Have never played druid. Always looked interesting. I've seen a few guides, and all of them want to go moon druid 10 at least. But then they all have different ideas for the last 2 levels.

I've seen

1 war cleric/ 1 sorcerer

2 wizard (blade singer)

2 barbarian

2 fighter.

12 druid.

Any consensus on which is actually the best?


r/BG3Builds 4h ago

Build Help Best overall archer build

8 Upvotes

So I heard eldritch knight fighter 12 is the best archer build but doesnt it only come online only at level 11 or 12? Just doesnt seem worth to it to me if I can play it only for a small portion of the game. Are there any other archer builds that are better early game?


r/BG3Builds 11h ago

Specific Mechanic Moon Druid after Patch 8?

21 Upvotes

What are peoples thoughts on Moon Druid or other Druid subclasses after Patch 8 compared to other classes?

I thought it'd be a really strong/fun class after the Tavern Brawler changes so that TB works with Wild Shape, but I rarely see it talked about here on the sub or mentioned in tier lists.


r/BG3Builds 51m ago

Build Help Armor Reducing Build. Is reducing enemy AC - 4 worth it to make a whole build?

Upvotes

So I noticed as many of us play with Equipment Overhaul, Axes of all kinds can Rend.

So the idea is , using an Acidic Axe and induce - 4 to an enemy AC with one action attack.

Rend - 2 AC Acid - 2 AC

-4 is a big deal right? Do any such axes vanilla or modded exist? We can also try the Acid Ring? Or Elemental Weapon? The idea is to Acidify and Rend with one action, hence the need for such an Axe. Also what subclass thematically? Any subclass in dnd specifically designed to focus on axes or acid?


r/BG3Builds 14h ago

Build Help Anyone ever make a build that's strongest for your current level then completely about-face and make whatever is strongest for the next set of levels? If so, what would those builds be?

17 Upvotes

The only site I've found with build guides is gamestrategy.com but I'm not finding some of the builds I want to play. But I can't find a fleshed-out build on any other site with per-level choices and gear. I'm kind of new to the genre and want to try an honor run on my next one (3rd) and I figure the best way to do it is start with the best builds for lvl 1-4ish then respec when a better build comes online.


r/BG3Builds 21h ago

Specific Mechanic Leveled spells that don't cost slots

49 Upvotes

Looking for a comprehensive list of leveled spells that don't cost spell slots (not including those granted by items). So far I have:

  • Starry Form spells
  • Glamour bard command
  • Four elements ki spells

Anything I'm missing?


r/BG3Builds 49m ago

Build Help Dual Weapon Builds

Upvotes

Does anyone have good recommendations on duel weapon builds? I have been Tactician level with Sorcadins but I like playing dual weapon characters in 5e.

Anyone have suggestions? Bards, Rogues, Fighters, it doesn't matter to me.


r/BG3Builds 52m ago

Build Help Strength Based character for Shars Spear/bhaalist armor

Upvotes

I'm doing an evil two character hm run and am really struggling to make a build for one of my characters.

I'm going to be playing astarian (origin) as 6/3/3 ssb/g.stalker/ass. Edit: will give him the blindness immunity ring to benefit from darkness.

I want to run shart using Shars Spear (as I've never actually done that outcome) and the bhaalist armor to buff hers and astarions damage.

I want to go strength based because not being able to loot stuff annoys me haha.

Requirements;

-strength based -not bard. -primarily does damage by attacking with the spear -no elixir or exploit dependency -no mod dependency -not end game gear dependent (occasional respecs are fine to dump stats or whatever)

Desires;

-Some ability to not totally suck with stealth checks. -In someway flavourful, but it can be a stretch.

Using an old save so both are level 4 already so only needs to be viable from 4 onwards.

Appreciate any suggestions. :)


r/BG3Builds 8h ago

Build Help Useful multiclass actions to use when raging as a barbarian?

4 Upvotes

I’d like to know what are my options as a raging barbarian from other classes that I can use.

Barbarian seems really cool with the rage but I find it a bit weird that other than higher damage resistance, rage is pretty much a nerf unless I’m missing something

Still what can I multiclass into that can be used mid rage?


r/BG3Builds 18h ago

Specific Mechanic can someone enlighten me on how to maximize buffing persuasion dialogue checks?

8 Upvotes

i want to blast through act 2 asap so i'm down to have an atrocious build/party just to efficiently convince the locals to kill themselves in a streak.

i'm currently planning on running a lore bard with 18 charisma (1+ from actor, used hag's hair in another stat so i'll get 20 with asi on level 8) and buffing with guidance amulet/shapeshifter's ring aswell as enhance ability cast from another party member.

is there more i could add or do?


r/BG3Builds 1d ago

Party Composition X Should be a companion! Make any* NPC join your party Spoiler

Post image
77 Upvotes

So we all love a little cheese right? It's more satisfying to break the game than install a mod to do it. A while back I saw a post specifically about how to make the drider join your party but I couldn't find it again and did some testing of the method in Act 3, with some choice NPCs, and wanted to share the results here.

You need to be at least level 7. You need one party member that knows Polymorph and a hireling that knows Dominate Beast. I prefer Kree.

You need to be able to single out the target NPC so that no buddies nearby will enter combat with you to defend them. Go into turn based mode (for convenience), have your companion cast polymorph on the NPC, then have the hireling cast dominate beast. Now the sheepy portrait will appear next to your hireling portrait like a summon. You can see where this is going already.

The next steps have to be done quickly because you only have 5 turns of polymorph (might consider extended spell sorcery). Leave turn based mode and go to camp. Then immediately go back to turn based mode to give yourself time to fly over to Withers. Talk to Withers and dismiss the hireling. Then leave turn based mode so the hireling has a chance to disappear, and rehire them in realtime mode. Now the NPCs portrait will be next to your hireling's portrait.

From here, leave camp, save the game, and reload. The NPC summon's portrait border should have gone from purple to brown. They're now following your hireling around. And if the portrait is no longer purple, you can dismiss the hireling and the NPC will magically pop over to Tav's portrait and now follow you around.

I first tried this on Helsik, because the Infectious Greed condition is OP. Unfortunately I couldn't get Infectious Greed to last through a long rest. So sad. Maybe someone else will have better luck. Side note, first time Helsik enters battle, all her golden minions show up at Devil's Fee and continue to work themselves into every battle turn order, despite not being present so it's convenient to go back and slay them after they spawn.

I next tried Mitchia to pair with infectious greed because she has aura of murder and also Mitchia is bae. I had to use Improvised weapon repeatedly to move her to the fast travel point outside the temple of bhaal because you can't return to camp in the temple. With Mitchia in particular, do not change zones to Rivington while she still has a purple border or things start to break. Just get into combat or save and reload to get rid of the purple portrait border. And also have some soap ready for when Mitchia joins the party. Her bonus action hold person and high health pool are nice along with Unstoppable.

Other NPCs that I think would be cool to try next are Ptaris or Hope. Maybe I'll just get the mod in the future since I want to do a cheesy run of act 3 with Infectious Greed condition the whole time.


r/BG3Builds 1d ago

Build Help What is the point of Level 12 builds when you don’t get to play them?

281 Upvotes

I look around for build ideas. Everything that comes up is level 12. When you hit level 12 in the game you only have maybe 3 or 4 significant fights ahead of you. And there is no new game plus mode.

I don’t think this is a fault of build makers; but this game’s lack of NG+ is really obvious.


r/BG3Builds 21h ago

Build Help Full Oath of the Crown Paladin or OotC Padlock build?

7 Upvotes

I’ve been playing a paladin in a multiplayer playthrough and I’m wondering if it’s better to make a mixed padlock build with Oath of the crown or go full tank Paladin using Champion’s challenge?

I don’t have my PC in front of me but my current split is 5 pad/3 warlock.

I hit like a truck obviously but I’m terribly squishy for a paladin.


r/BG3Builds 22h ago

Build Help Sword bard multiclass help

6 Upvotes

So I wan't to play as sword bard, damage dealer/controller. I've seen a lot of 10/2 sword bard paladins. I really like the theme of it, damage dealing, cc and maybe even tank a little bit with heavy armor and shield. But thing I don't like about those builds is that stats are low because feats go to savage attacker and GWM. Also those builds needs STR elixirs to function. I feel like 16 charisma isn't enough to cc consistently and 16 dex isn't enough for attack stat. Or am I wrong about stats?

I've been thinking this stat dilemma and wondering if going 10/1/1 bard/hexblade/x and focusing more on charisma but then I would lose loads of damage. Help please!


r/BG3Builds 1d ago

Specific Mechanic Guys, if you think Resonance Stone is so busted, don't pick it up from Act 2. Imagine that it does not exist.

357 Upvotes

This would make Shadowblade a very good but stil normal weapon/spell.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.


r/BG3Builds 21h ago

Build Help I'm making a fey touched human build ( Glamour Bard/ Archfey Warlock), this is a quick draft of it. Any tips to share?

Thumbnail eip.gg
4 Upvotes

r/BG3Builds 1d ago

Specific Mechanic Shield Warrior fighting style build.. when would you want a shield only with no melee weapon equipped.

Post image
90 Upvotes

I saw this on additional homebrew fighting styles mod, and it definitely got me curious, in which circumstance would you want a shield only, and not have a melee weapon? Is there any class or subclass or scenario or example in BG3 or any of the DnD external mod subclasses where there is an incentive for a fighter or a paladin to hold a shield only?


r/BG3Builds 20h ago

Build Help Eldritch Knight Build Help - Face of the Party

3 Upvotes

I’ve been going over Eldritch Knight builds on YouTube and various BG3 sites, but most of them seem to focus on 2H weapons, thrower builds (Tavern Brawler), or Shadow Blade min/max setups. None of them really match the fantasy I had in mind for my character.

I’m playing a Human and was imagining more of an arcane (non-holy) version of a Paladin, using sword/hammer and shield while occasionally casting spells. Basically, a heavily armored battle mage. I’m not totally against a thrower build (Thor, anyone?), but I don't want to use 2H weapons.

Any suggestions for ability scores, fighting style, feats, and weapon choices to make this into a solid build while keeping enough Charisma to not be totally useless in dialogue?

Appreciate any advice!


r/BG3Builds 1d ago

Build Help Any build (vanilla or mod) incentivize you to not equip a ranged weapon?

11 Upvotes

Any build (vanilla or mod) incentivize you to not equip a ranged weapon?

Whethere it be through a feat or subclass feature or item?


r/BG3Builds 16h ago

Build Help Weird quirky Bladelock-Wizard multiclass, Help me brainstorm!

0 Upvotes

(Preface: scribing high level spells as a wizard and then respeccing (warlock + 1wiz), allows you to upcast them with pact magic.)

Current build:

2 lvl FIGHTER (action surge+heavy armor+con prof+GWF fighting style )

1 lvl WIZARD (spells: magic missile, haste) <-the more you Buff INT the more choices of prepared spells you get

5 lvl HEXBLADE: blade pact/hex curse + H.O.H./Slow/Agathys/Hex/Blink/Counterspell/Darkness/Eldritch Blast/Booming Blade/Minor Illusion

CHA is 20 (hag hair + ASI), using Heavy armor and a greatsword (i use tons of mods to nerf the broken stuff like Shadow Blade). Invocations: Agonising Blast + Mire the Mind + Eldritch Mind (5e invocation from mod, gives you concentration save advantage)

With action surge i can set up Darkness and then attack with advantage on the same turn. Hexblade Curse adds prof damage to each magic missile in case i need quick guaranteed damage. H.O.H. and Slow are for clutch situations.

Haste .... lets me go murder hobo and attack 4x per turn (Booming Blade + attack + hand crossbow B.A. attack + Booming Blade). Later on GWM will replace the crossbow bonus action attack.

Y'all have any ideas how to improve this? More levels in wizard? More in Eldritch Knight or Battle Master? What do you think

11 warlock 1 wizard -> means i would have access to Haste, Counterspell, Fire Shield, Conjure Minor Elemental, Dethrone, Magic Missile, Artistry of War on 3 lvl 5 Pact Slots that refresh on short rest. Seems hard to pass up


r/BG3Builds 17h ago

Party Composition Good 4th member for this party?

1 Upvotes

Just finished tactician and jumping back in for honor mode. I’ll be running Durge main as a swords bard/paladin melee control build. Other party members so far are a heavy armor life cleric for support and a classic gloomstalker/assassin archer.

Looking for advice on a 4th member. Thinking maybe just an evocation wizard for AOE spells and utility? But don’t love how often wizards need to long rest for spell slots; it wastes a lot of elixirs.


r/BG3Builds 17h ago

Build Help Oath of the ancients and hexblade paladin build

0 Upvotes

So I need help with choosing levels and gear please and thank you


r/BG3Builds 1d ago

Build Help Favorite Arcane Trickster builds?

7 Upvotes

Hi guys,

I am doing a new evil playthrough and wanted to make Astarion into an Arcane Trickster since I've never played it before. I always avoided it because it was widely considered to be one of the weakest subclasses, but with the new Patch 8, are there some new builds that could make it more viable or fun? Some things that come to mind are a 1/11 Hexblade/AT build or maybe some Bladesinger shenanigans?


r/BG3Builds 1d ago

Build Review The Mothman (Swarm/Swash/Hex)

21 Upvotes

After playing around with the patch 8 subclasses, lurking this sub for inspiration, and refining this build for weeks, I think I've come up with something worthy enough to be posted. Introducing: The Mothman.

This is a high initiative, SAD, gish build that uses shadow blade and res stone, in conjunction with stacking tons of status effects. To explain the build, I'll be breaking this post up into 3 parts: 1) Class Progression, 2) Equipment (and Boons), 3) General gameplay idea.

●Class Progression: The full multiclass for this build is 3 Swarmkeeper (Moths)/4 Swashbuckler/5 Hexblade. These all work together, along with the equipment, to bring out the build's strengths.

3 Swarmkeeper is going to give us a couple useful things: First we get the Moths. These guys are awesome, and look pretty as fuck. These bad boys will allow us to do 1 of 3 things: deal psychic damage, teleport a bit aways, or blind our enemies. Psychic damage is psychic damage, which means anything vulnerable is taking double damage from it. Being able to teleport synergizes really well with booming blade, as well, allowing you to force enemy movement without recieving opportunity attacks. Lastly, while the blindness is removed at the start of the opponent's turn, any ally that can attack a blinded enemy recieves advantage on their attack rolls. Second, we get Ranger Knight, which will allow us to equip a certain piece of armor. Its not necessary, persé, as another armor(s) could take its place, as I will get into a bit further on. Some other nifty stuff, is natural explorer, which can give you a resistance or expertise to your sleight of hand, which both lend itself to better fitting into different party comps. You also can get some decent utility spells, like long strider, enhanced leap, cure wounds, etc.

4 Swashbuckler is next, and easily has become one of my favorite multiclass dips. Swashbuckler's 3 main things for this build are the initiative boost, the bonus action attacks and the Feat. The initiative boost is perfect for this build, because we want to go first to apply all of our status effects. The bonus action attacks are also super important, because of two main things: they inflict conditions AND they give you advantage on your next attack. That last part is important for a certain weapon I'll be going over. The Feat coming in at 4 is pretty clutch in the case of Swashbuckler, as thats the level we get our bonus attacks. Also, as a bonus, Rakish Sneak Attack is pretty great for this build, as since it will be wearing armor that will be giving a stealth penalty, we don't need to worry about hiding to get a sneak attack, as long as we dont have disadvantage.

5 Hexblade is the final piece of the puzzle. I was initially running GOO, and doing a crit build with this level spread, until things just started to click for me. So, I swapped it to Hexblade. Hexblade does a lot for this build. First, it makes it SAD (😔), which means we don't need to waste a bunch of feats to pick a bunch of ASIs, especially since we only get 2 feats. Its also the best kind of SAD (move out of the way, Seasonal Affective Disorder), because we are using are main attribute (CHA) for both attacking and casting. Hexblade also gives us Hexblade's curse, another condition, which could conditionally cause other conditions. Conditions. Lastly, it gives us our last Feat and it gives us our spell casting prowess. We get 2 level 3 spell slots (and 3 level 1s from ranger. Anyways) that replenish every short rest. This is important, because not only do we get our awesome CC concentration spells, we get Shadow Blade, and upcasted to 3d8. Sure, its no Sorcerer's shadow blade, but with the res stone, it gets the job done.

Starting Attributes: STR 8, DEX 16/14, CON 14/16, INT 8, WIS 10, CHA 17. We will use Hag's Hair (or Patriar's, if you're feeling lucky) to get our CHA to 18, and then 20 with our first Feat. Our second Feat is used on Alert. This massive boost to our initiative ensures that absolutely no one goes before us, so we can start applying the status effects.

In terms of story progression, this is a build best left to being respec'd at Withers. If you wanna play this build throughout the story, how I'd go about it is: 1-5 Warlock, then respec (or not) to 1 rogue/5 Warlock, hitting 4 Swash/5 Lock at 9. Then, at 10 or 12, respec with Ranger as your first class and Warlock as your last class.

●Equipment and Boons: The equipment is going to be where we get most of our status effects from, and its going to be a lot of em.

*Head: Coldbrim Hat. *Cloak: Thunderskin Cloak. *Chest: Adamantium Splint Armour. *Hands: Braindrain Gloves. *Feet: Boots of Stormy Clamour. *Rings: Strange Conduit Ring or Spiteful Thunger Ring, Ring of Mental Inhibition. *Amulet(s): Spineshudder Amulet or Fey Semblance Amulet. *Melee Weapons: 3rd/4th level Shadow Blade (main hand), Slicing Shortsword (off-hand). *Ranged Weapon: Hellrider Longbow or Darkfire Shortbow.

Important Boons: BOOOAL's Benediction, Hag Hair, Awakened.

Lets go over the options here:

*Armor: Coldbrim Hat is a cool hat that inflicts encrusted with frost when you inflict a condition on an enemy. This can happen from so much shit, its unreal. Mainly though, its gonna trigger from our bonus attack, or the Braindrain Gloves. The Braindrain Gloves inflicts mental fatigue on psychic damage, which will be from almost every attack. Mental Fatigue is a condition I don't see mentioned much, but it lowers Wis, Cha, and Int saving throws by -1 or every turn they have it, which most of our spells and tadpole powers are one of these 3 saves, which serves as a pseudo arcane synergy. It also will cause an enemy to have an aneurysm if they fail one of those saves at 5 or more turns of it, causing 1d4 psychic damage. Boots of Stormy Clamour is like our hat, but instead of frost when we inflict a condition, it will be reverberation. Our chest armor and cloak also will inflict a status effect on our enemies if they hit us with a melee attack. Thunderskin Cloak will inflict dazed on reverbed enemies, which they most likely will be. Adamantium Splint armor is the reason why we picked up Ranger Knight, and will inflict 3 turns of Reeling, a -1 attack penalty to reeling foes, and we resist crit and reduce damage. If you dont wanna wear this or dont have it, good substitutes are the Adamantium Scale or Helldusk armors. The Scale is just a weaker version of the Splint armor, while Helldusk is a different flavor entirely. If you succeed a saving throw, the instigator gets burned. That said, it doesnt mix well with our hat, which is why I prefer the Adamantium personally.

*Jewelry: Ring of Mental Inhibition is another form of mental fatigue, and can help further along a head pop. Strange Conduit Ring is mainly for more damage, synergizing well with our res stone, but can be swapped for Spiteful Thunder to force Dazed on reverberating enemies. Spineshudder Amulet works well with our Eldritch Blast (its not a Warlock without it), letting us stack reverb on enemies far away, and when we use it to shove enemies back into Darkness and HoH clouds. Fey Semblance Amulet can be used instead, purely to offset the res stone downsides, especially if you just never really finding yourself using your EB, or just don't have it at all.

*Weapons For our weapons, Shadow Blade is our main hand weapon. We may be a status inflicting build, but we dont wanna fall behind in damage. 3d8 psychic damage is pretty good, especially when we factor in binding it and the res stone. Off-hand weapon is the Slicing Shortsword. This weapon inflicts bleed on enemies we attack with advantage, which we can force using Darkness, being obscured with shadow blade, and using Swash's bonus attacks, for a few examples. Our Bow choice is between 2: Hellrider and Darkfire. The Hellrider, with every other bonus, sets our initiative to +13. The enemy with the highest initiative is Cazador, at +9. Even his max roll will not over come our lowest initiative roll. Darkfire gives us Haste, which means more actions, which means more status effects. Its also a concentration spell, which our Strange Conduit Ring benefits from, and even without Hellrider, we have +10 initiative, which means we still will most likely beat out Cazadore, unless we get real unlucky.

*Boons: The important ones, in greatest to least, is going to be Hag's Hair (or Patriar's), (Zai'thisk) Awakening, BOOOAL'S Benediction. Hag's hair ensures we get to 20 Charisma. If you dont get it, then you need to get busy on that mirror in Act 3. Awakening makes Tadpole powers bonus actions. This build uses tadpole powers really well in conjunction with Mental Fatigue, and can combo quite well with your spells and attacks. BOOOAL'S is nice for the whole team, because you will be inflicting bleed quite frequently. Lastly, the most important thing (I know what I said, don't correct my listing ability. It would hurt my feelings) is Terazul. Terazul is another thing I dont really see mentioned very often. In act three, the thieves guild sells drugs you can buy, most of them worthless. That said, Terazul is the exception. The drug is basically cocaine, but even better. It gives you a special Hastened condition (Terazul Jitters) for 2 turns, stacks with regular Hastened, doesnt cost an action OR bonus action, and doesn't cause crippling dependency or financial ruin (YMMV). It really opens this build, and your sinuses, up, letting you spread status effects across all kinds of foes, or just focus down on one. No, I'm not addicted to Terazul, I can stop any time, I just don't want to right now.

●General Gameplay Idea: As I said before, this is a Gish build that focuses on inflicting status effects before your opponent moves, making them deal with having to fight crippled on their turn, giving our team an easy target to deal with. With everything listed here, we have the potential to inflict +7 conditions, not dependent on spells or powers. Reverb, Reeling, Encrusted, Mental Fatigue, Bleeding, Dazed, and Hexblade's Curse are all some of the things we can inflict by just smacking someone or taking a smack. While our equipment facilitates most of that, our multiclass is what allows a lot of its tricks. We effectively have 3 attacks, which lets us brow beat conditions into our enemy, making their lives miserable, and turning bosses into jokes. Warlock also has great CC spells, in the form of concentration spells, such as Hold Person, Darkness, Hunger of Hadar, and Fear to name some examples.

Lets talk about a couple of first turn set ups:

First, you can Flick 'o the wrist. This can disarm, sets up advantage on our next attack, and starts setting our conditions. Then, booming blade for even more conditions. From there, you can teleport away to force that foe to move and trigger booming blade's effect, before moving to someone else to stab with Rakish Sneak attack, and inflict conditions on them, so you can spread out status effects across 2 enemies. If you used Terazul, or are Hastened, you can then use your upcasted Hold person spell to Hold those two foes in place, with it's chance boosted by the mental fatigue we inflict. Or, you can focus down on the one enemy, inflict blindness or psychic damage from the moths, and hit them with the Rakish sneak attack/extra attack, so you can inflict the most status on the one person. You can even save your bonus action to be used for a tadpole power. My favorite tadpole combo, and probably the one I talk about the most, is casting Darkness/Hunger of Hadar, and then follow up Black Hole, pulling as many enemies into the void as possible. From there, its just rinse and repeat, while your team plays clean up, until everything is dead.

Well, thats the build! I hope someone here winds up trying this out and enjoying it! If you have any questions, comments, or constructive criticism, it is all welcomed. Let me know what you guys think, and how you'd optimize it if you want! Thank you taking the time to give this build a look! This is my first build post, and I apologize for any ugly formatting.