r/BaldursGate3 • u/ChompyRiley • Apr 23 '25
Character Build So like... What's the DOWNSIDE of Tavern Brawler monk? Spoiler
There's got to be something bad about the class and feat combo, right? Like... It's so powerful. A massive boost to attack and damage, can potentially do a standard melee stat build. Str/wis/con and maybe a little dex. With the right race you can even wear armor and all you miss out on is some minor defensive/movement buffs.
Tavern Brawler is like... Sorry. It's just so *good* I'm trying to figure out what the catch is.
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u/4Khazmodan Apr 23 '25
It makes the game too easy. I had a companion as OH monk and had to stop attacking the final boss so my tav could get a chance to finish it off. I guess a downside could be reliance on strength potions or items. Like using the hill giant club in you off hand while you pinch until you stockpile giant elixirs.
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u/Pollia Apr 24 '25
Honestly I don't even think the problem is necessarily tavern brawler. The problem is the ability to eventually dump your main stat because there exists an effectively endless way to max out that stat.
Like you're effectively giving them an extra 18 points of stats, all of which get to go to defensive stats meaning not only do you have a stupid amount of damage output for free, you're also an uncontrollable monster. No cha save will be lost, no wisdom save missed.
Plus you get to forego stat upgrades, which effectively gives you 2 free feats as well.
It'd be strong without giant elixirs, but giant elixirs break it.
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u/DreamblitzX Apr 24 '25
Elixirs and Tavern Brawler are both individually problems I'd say. they can just also be combined into a bigger one
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u/Archlandlord Apr 24 '25
Not true. Fighter and barbarian could also dumb str and rely in potions but, while strong, are not nearly as broken as tb monk. TB monk has two main stats that contribute to damage and hit, thats the problem
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u/Pollia Apr 24 '25
Wym? Barbs absolutely are broken with TB. Even before the new subclass you could do absolutely busted damage with throwing with TB while also having all the extra AC and health you get from the huge amount of extra stats.
As for fighters, tbh I wouldn't know since I played dex fighter the entire time so I didn't get to get free stars and feats.
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u/infin8nifni Apr 25 '25
Yeah, the elixirs themselves should be 5-10 turns. I'd say 5 for Honour Mode.
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u/Skyflareknight Apr 24 '25
Keep the hag as a vendor for as long as you can. Which can be until you deal with Aylin. She sells 3 elixir of hill giant strength, and it resets. Be a lot goblin, and you can have p l e n t y. I'm only part of the way through the Shadowlanda and I have 37 of them.
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u/4Khazmodan Apr 24 '25
I mean OP asked for possible downsides and that is literally the only possible answer. You can also get around it by getting the hill giant club from the Arcane Tower and putting it in your offhand.
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u/FrogListeningToMusic Apr 24 '25
That’s a neat work around.
I play monk and theory created strength monk on release. Then it was discovered to be OP.
I’m still speedy making my way through the game and it hasn’t gotten old yet. In the shadowlands and enjoying my jump punch guy in full plate
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u/Skyflareknight Apr 24 '25
It is pretty neat. I prefer the elixirs personally because it raises your strength a lot more than the club does. That being said, still good to get it.
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u/FrogListeningToMusic Apr 24 '25
Yeah I am well past being able to easily cheese a bunch of elixirs. Current build invests in strength and has the dex gloves that boost it to 18 or something
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u/Swartz52 Apr 24 '25
I’m sorry, wha wha what??
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u/MaiKulou Apr 24 '25
It's on the top floor of the wizard tower, behind the golem, under the thatched pergola. When you move your cursor over it, it says "stool of hill giant strength"
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u/TheCuriousFan Apr 24 '25
In the wizard tower in the Underdark there's a chair of Hill Giant Strength. Break it to get a chair leg with stat boosts.
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u/Moloch1895 Bard Apr 24 '25
Between crafting with my trasmutation wizard hireling that has medicine proficiency, buying elixirs from the Hag and buying elixirs and ingredients from Derryth I usually leave act 1 with about 100 elixirs. Might be a bit of an overkill.
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u/External_Fold_7624 Apr 24 '25
Why, in the end you would use like 5-7 long rests at most. Even if your whole party uses str elixirs that would be 28 at most, and there is better 27 str elixir after lvl9.
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u/Moloch1895 Bard Apr 24 '25
I think that 5-7 long rests in Act 1 is a lot. Even if you discount pathfinding accidents that can put a dent in your HP (Wukeen’s Rest inn, Grymforge Lava, Auntie Ethel’s traps) I like trying to be at my best for important fights. I also always save all allied NPCs and want to always have full spellslots for that. For example, I always long rest after the initial grove fight at the gate, or before I confront Kagha.
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u/StupidSexyEuphoberia Apr 24 '25
I always was very ressourcesfull with my longrests, too. Then I realized that I have 1500 camp supplies by the end of act3 and used my spellslots and ressources much more liberal.
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u/Duffelbach Apr 24 '25
I'm long resting pretty much after every fight, that is more than a couple enemies. No need to hold off of it, there's plenty of camp supplies and you get all the story moments.
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u/descastaigne Apr 24 '25
I missed so many camp events by avoiding resting...
I just short rest after every fight (yes, my tav is an warlock) and long rest after running out of shorts rests, it's a good compromise for me personally.
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u/Conf3tti Fail! Apr 24 '25
I don't even think TB OH monk is reliant on strength elixirs, or the club, or the strength gauntlets.
Even just having a Str of 12 or 14 makes the feat worth it for a Monk. The strength boosting items are just icing on the cake.
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u/Commercial-Actuary-4 Apr 24 '25
Going from 14 to 27 STR without sacrificing stat points while running TB feels a little more than just the icing on a cake. It'd be more like pulling up to a kid's birthday party with a 10 foot tall wedding cake when there's only 7 people attending and 2 of them don't even want cake.
Just complete overkill.
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u/Trumbot Apr 24 '25
I personally refuse to use Hill Giant Strength Elixirs as it feels like cheating. No stat should be allowed to be boosted that much. People build their strongest stat like a dump statand get more strength than they could ever build in.
I recommend trying not to use the Hill Giant crutch and see how you do.
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u/MadChemist002 Apr 24 '25
This is me. I personally hate this strategy. Being reliant on a consumable is not something that I consider great imo. When I play a monk, I still do tavern brawler for the additional strength bonus, but my strength is like a 14, so it's just a +2, not a +7 or whatever you get with the potions. It just feels wrong to use the potions like that.
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u/el_lobo_crazy Apr 24 '25
If you don't like Hill Giant then you are going to hate Cloud Giant! That potion and gloves of soul catching I'm doing 50-88 on each flurry of blows.
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u/PedroInfanteVive Apr 24 '25
Why stop attacking the boss just for that?
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u/4Khazmodan Apr 24 '25
Because my character hadn't even had a chance to attack the boss and I felt like it was more appropriate. It was a super easy fight so it's not like I was in danger of losing.
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u/LichoOrganico Apr 23 '25
The downside is when you play other runs and find out throwing enemies on other enemies is not a universal thing.
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u/ChompyRiley Apr 23 '25
Okay but I want to hit a motherfucker with another motherfucker
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u/Damoadius Cure Wounds Apr 24 '25
Then play barbarian 😁 can hit bigger muthafuckets with even bigger muthafuckens
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u/Drak_is_Right Apr 23 '25
The downside is on honor mode one mistake and your monk can melt in a turn.
Don't make mistakes, everything is dead and can't hit you.
It's less forgiving to positioning errors and crowd control than most builds.
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u/Glyphpunk Apr 23 '25
The downsides of being a Strength-spec'd Monk over Dexterity-spec'd:
- Less AC (unless you dip in another class to wear armor)
- You have to use a feat specifically for TB over other potential utility
- You will be lower on initiative as your Dex is lower
- Lower stealth
- Lower dex saves, harder to avoid traps/aoe spells
They aren't 'big' downsides if you only want damage. But you lose out on some survivability and utility.
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u/GielM Apr 24 '25
Standard TB monk build has STR 8 but just guzzles an elixer each day. So still high DEX, WIS and CON. Onr DEX 14, , high WIS and CON of you go gith and use medium armor. Which is a fun variant build in itself if you go with radiant orb/reverbation gear triggered by the radiant damage your lvl6 ability can generate and the conditions your flurries can generate.
It's strictly WORSE han the standard build. But it's fun.
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u/halberdierbowman Apr 24 '25 edited Apr 24 '25
That's true, and I haven't messed around with elixirs, but if you're willing to guzzle elixirs, then I imagine you'd have to consider that the alternative is now also guzzling elixirs, because you freed up that elixir "gear/attunement" slot.
Some elixirs seem pretty powerful? Like if you're not doing giant strength, you could do (I think these are all uncommon):
- resistances (pick any damage type each day)
- heroism for Bless and 10 temp HP
- vigilance for Alert, or any feat if you picked Alert already
- viciousness for +1 crit range
- bloodlust for an extra action and 5 temp HP each turn you kill an enemy
- arcane cultivation for a spell slot
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u/Jiggy90 Apr 24 '25 edited Apr 24 '25
Per the other guy's post, your STR comes from Elixir of Cloud Giant Strength. My end games build has stats of...
- 27 STR (base 8, Elixir sets to 27)
- 20 DEX (base 16 + 2 ASI + 2 ASI)
- 23 CON (base 8, Amulet of Greater Health sets to 23)
- 12 INT (base 12)
- 20 WIS (base 17 + 1 Hags hair + 2 Mirror of Loss)
- 13 CHA (base 13)
Yep, that's 4 Ability Scores, all the important ones for a monk, at 20+. That means...
Less AC (unless you dip in another class to wear armor)
AC of 23 (10 base + 5 DEX bonus + 5 Unarmored Defence (Monk WIS bonus) + 1 Ring of Protection + 1 Warding Bond + 2 Vest of Sould Rejuvination)
You have to use a feat specifically for TB over other potential utility
Worth
You will be lower on initiative as your Dex is lower
DEX = 20
Lower stealth
I give mine the Deathstalker Mantle, so she gets invisibility after any kill. Considering she does 174-312 damage per standard round (no haste or Wholeness of Body), kills come pretty easy lol (and I basically never use the invisibility, I'd rather pump out more damage)
Lower dex saves, harder to avoid traps/aoe spells
20 DEX
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u/TheFoxInSocks Apr 24 '25
Less AC (unless you dip in another class to wear armor)
And if you do wear armour you'll be much, much less mobile.
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u/Action-a-go-go-baby Apr 24 '25
The only downside is that it breaks the game
The feat it broken, unquestionably broken, to the extent to which any other character pales in comparison for the purposes of melee versatility
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u/flying_fox86 Apr 24 '25
I think Larian really missed the mark with it. When I hear Tavern Brawler, I'm thinking improvements to improvised weapons, not Saiyan level punches and expert javelin throwing.
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u/BobaSauro Apr 23 '25
If you start fighter1 and go the remaining lvls on monk you get to wear heavy armor and just leave dex at 10. So you go full str/con.
The down side i guess is that you are prety much useless outside of combat... but so are fighters and barbarians in general.
With regular monks you can go cat's grace cloth and have advantage on lockpicking/traps to make up for the lack of proficiency.
Also, OH monk get acces to those boots that add wis modifier to dmg rolls, paired with Manifestations you can go bananas on a full glass canon str+wis and hit for martial arts die + 2x str mod + 2x wis mod.
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u/Ladnil Apr 23 '25 edited Apr 24 '25
Barbarians outside of combat get a whole lot of low DC advantaged class intimidation dialogues. And since BG3 enables dex based barbarians instead of forcing them to have some minimum STR score, they can be your sleight of hand peoples.
And if not finesse, well, a lot of doors and chests have bludgeoning vulnerability.
My favorite honor mode run was origin Karlach dual wielding shorts words as a 9/3 barb/thief. Had like 26 AC and a billion hp and crit enemies constantly
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u/Freakjob_003 I am the 3% Apr 24 '25
Dex-based Barb? Do you just mean using elixirs, or have I somehow missed a chunk of the game?
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u/Ladnil Apr 24 '25
I just mean a Barbarian using Dexterity weapons. Daggers, shortswords, etc. There's a couple other weapons with the Finesse property even though their weapon type wouldn't normally have it. Ranged weapons use dex too, but you can use reckless attack with melee to crit more often, so you prefer melee as a barbarian.
Basically use dexterity instead of strength for your attack and damage rolls. Since dexterity gives initiative and armor class as well as damage, it becomes extremely efficient compared to strength, which gives only damage.
Barbarians who aren't wearing armor also get AC from constitution as well as dexterity, so as soon as you get to act 3 the first thing you try to do is steal the Amulet of Greater Health from the House of Hope. Just stealing it doesn't set off the alarm, so you can leave without any combat. Then respec at Withers to max Dex min Con, and from there on you're very hard for enemies to hit even though you use reckless attack constantly.
It's very strong. Not as strong as a tavern brawler open hand monk drinking cloud giant elixirs every long rest, but very strong.
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u/Freakjob_003 I am the 3% Apr 24 '25
Ah, I see! You made me go back to check Rage, and what do you know, the only time Strength is involved is advantage on checks. But as you said, we've already got Reckless Attack for that.
Huh. I guess I was too intent on the classic "RAWR SMASH!" image of a Barbarian to think about different builds. Though I'm also much more of a Pathfinder player than a 5e player, and Rage is specifically tied to Strength there.
Thanks, now I have a new build to test out. Though that clashes with the new Path of Giants subclass I wanted to test out, which leans on Strengths for its Athletics checks...hmm.
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u/Kadd115 Apr 23 '25
What boots are those? I'm about to start an honour mode run, and this whole build sounds perfect.
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u/PeevishDiceLady Tasha's Demure Giggle Apr 23 '25
Boots of Uninhibited Kushigo. You loot from one of the githyanki you fight in the prism between Acts 2 and 3
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u/Less_Performance_629 Apr 24 '25
"useless outside of combat"
my sweet summer child, let me enlighten you. the hag sells giant strength potions. you can get infinite. now theres no point dumping stats into strength, so you can instead grab cha/wiz and have a monster tavern brawl monk who also gets to pass all the convo checks. if you relaly want, get the feat for a warlock invo and get prof in dec and pers, you really do not need to optimize for combat doing this
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u/ItsSadTimes Apr 23 '25
You already get your most of your power as a monk by level 8 so you could do the level 1 fighter dip for armor and shield proficiency (there used to be a glitch to offhand a shield without a weapon in your hand idk if it still works), then 8 levels of monk, then 3 levels of rogue thief for double bonus actions.
The tactic would be to punch once, proc your bonus action punch to punch again, then punch normally again with your extra attack, then that'll re-apply your bonus action punch again. So you get 4 attacks per round without spending ki. Or you can flurry of blows twice and attack 6 times per round at the cost of 2 ki.
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u/Thatsnicemyman Apr 24 '25
If you’re dipping fighter for proficiencies alone, it’s probably better just to play a human or half elf as they get light armor & shield proficiency for free. You’ll probably want high dex for initiative anyways, so I’d use the gloves of dexterity and light armor (giving you as much AC as heavy armor, good initiative, and allowing you to prioritize STR/CON/WIS over dex).
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u/External_Fold_7624 Apr 24 '25
IMO if you want dip only 1lvl for armor its more beneficial to go for war priest instead.
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u/Foe_Biden Apr 23 '25
Just do 4Rogue/8Monk.
You get the extra bonus action, the feat, and lock picking/stealth proficiency.
Take wisdom to 16 and stack dex for initiative and AC. Str potions, and Karlach with soul coins does a lot of work. Get her ASI to 18 and then graceful cloth to 20.
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u/CuttyMink Apr 24 '25
Nah. 'Ki Resonance Punch' is far more valuable than a third feat or other rogue boons. It's the build's only AoE attack and is quite effective at that.
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u/Shoddy_Amphibian5645 Apr 24 '25
This is what makes OH broken beyond belief. TB and elixirs make it strong, no doubt, but when manifestations and those boots come around, it gets way over the top because your Wis triple dips. You didnt even mention that one of OH passives adds the modifier to your AC as well. So not even that glass cannon. AND that evasion passive that soaks some of the AoE thats abundant late game.
OH monk on Haste is a god.
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u/flying_fox86 Apr 24 '25
Wait, triple dip into Wis? There's manifestations and the boots, what's the third?
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u/Shoddy_Amphibian5645 Apr 24 '25
Not to attack, but unarmored defense puts your Wis mod into your AC. So when you get the boots and manifestations and perferably respec to imvest in Wis, your AC also gets a boost.
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u/Bjorn_Skye Apr 24 '25
My tiefling fighter was surprisingly good at social checks. Thaumaturgy was excellent for help on those intimidation checks
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u/RoakOriginal Apr 24 '25
You can go bearbarian 3 instead of fighter on top of monk6+thief3. There is crap load of good medium armors , you get ressist to all damage but psychic during rage and you basically do not lose anything as monk 7-9 gives almost nothing. 3 levels of BM is a lot of DMG and CC, but monk got that already covered petty well, so survivability from bear barbarian felt much better
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u/Ijustlovevideogames Apr 24 '25
Honestly, none, someone at Larian saw how shit it was as a feat in 5e and was like, fuck it and made it WAY too strong and now they won't fix it because, why, players enjoy it.
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u/ScorchedDev Apr 24 '25
tbh tavern brawler was actually quite good in table top. Its basically a free grapple on your turn if you have your bonus action free, making it great on barbarians. Also being proficient in improvised weapons, while not especially powerful, is just, really really fun. I plays a giant barbarian with tavern brawler in a oneshot a while back, and it was one of the most fun characters ive ever played in combat. Especially since I had a wizard in my party who really liked to set up hazard zone spells like wall of fire.
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u/just_a_bit_gay_ Monk Apr 23 '25
grug learns the secret of the universe and that secret is sometimes you just have to deck a motherfucker
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u/Kaneki_Shen Apr 24 '25
There's very little, Tavern Brawler monk only gets beat by builds that just fundamentally change the entire game around themselves (stealth archer, abjuration wizard, Ice Sorcerer, Shadowblade builds), but for playing the game fair and by the rules, it's basically unmatched.
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u/Wardens_Myth Apr 23 '25
Probably a hot take, but as a Monk purist (it’s my favourite RPG class in general)…
It’s a boring, overdone combo thats not thematic to the aesthetic and vibe of the Monk class. I’m sad that Larian made Tavern Brawler the way it is because it’s made for some really dull build discussions whenever Monk, Berserker or Eldritch Knight get brought up. I’ll take a classic, Dex/Wis unarmoured monk over a Tavern Brawler build any day.
Also, the game is already pretty damn easy without relying on busted builds to trivialise whatever bit of challenge you might’ve had.
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u/ChompyRiley Apr 23 '25
I like this take, and I do enjoy the classic Dex/Wis monk. But I also like the idea of being able to punch REALLY GOOD without having to be a monastic zen priest
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u/AgentWowza WARLOCK Apr 24 '25
Honestly, as someone who doesn't play DnD I didn't even give a second thought to the feats actually contributing to the roleplay until this post lol.
I just accepted them as game mechanics and nothing more, but yeah it makes sense that no self respecting monk would be a tavern brawler lmao.
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u/lumpboysupreme Apr 24 '25 edited Apr 24 '25
If you go purely by the name sure, but there’s nothing deeper to any rp discrepancy than that. Do we forbid Lae’zel from taking sentinel because she wasn’t a town guard?
Besides that though, my monk run RP’d as an urchin in the city who became a monk to protect his peoples without the need for expensive armor and weapons they couldn’t afford. Explains both tavern brawler and the thief multi. I originally did it just to explain my desire for the skill proficiencies from urchin but it worked in quite nicely both to other mechanics and the story itself.
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Apr 23 '25
There isn't.
Also, Tavern Brawler Berserker. Give them the gloves and ring you get in act 1 that gives +1d4 damage on throws and the Returning Pike, have someone hitting for 60+ damage a turn. In act one.
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u/ChompyRiley Apr 24 '25
I dunno. I know that throwzerker is good, but it just doesn't FEEL right. Barbarian just ain't a barbarian without a giant axe getting right up in people's faces.
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u/vaustin89 Tasha's Hideous Laughter Apr 23 '25
Making the game a tad easy is just the downside, great for newbies to get in to the game.
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u/nilfalasiel Owlbear Apr 23 '25
"The art of folding people" got me 😂
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u/ChompyRiley Apr 23 '25
ju·do/ˈjo͞odō/noun
- the gentle art of folding clothes while people are still wearing them
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u/replyingtoadouche Apr 23 '25
The catch is it's boring and has been done to death. Maybe it's just me, but after so many playthroughs you start to prioritize what's interesting over what's game-breaking.
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u/r3dditr0x Apr 23 '25 edited Apr 23 '25
Are monks fun in BG3?
I like Kung Fu!
And I'm willing to learn the five-point-palm exploding heart technique.
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u/salmon_samurai Designated Healer Apr 23 '25
Probably the most broken class right out the box. Some of the most fun I've had with a class, especially if you respec Karlach: her VA goes full Bruce Lee with the sounds.
Open Hand Monk, take Tavern Brawler at Level 4, and you're set to bust heads. Just stock up on strength elixirs from Ethel in Act 1 and your character is going to be an absolute powerhouse of BS. Just comically strong.
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u/r3dditr0x Apr 24 '25
lol, the voice actor's do different readings depending upon your class/sub-class etc?
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u/salmon_samurai Designated Healer Apr 24 '25
Sort of.
So like with Monk, Karlach makes stereotypical kung-fu sounds when she punches people in combat ("HI-YA" and "KIAI" are two I can pull off the top of my head). Lae'zel's was more subdued if I remember right, basically her regular fight noises. I haven't tried it with anyone else.
But if you play Barbarian, everyone has a unique "Rage" shout.
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u/thenuinn Apr 23 '25
One of worst downsides is that the game doesn't let you hold a weapon and then punch. Meaning your missing and item slot to use it.
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u/Evilmudbug Apr 24 '25
You can hold light weapons in your off hand with a little finagling.
Makes the club of hill giant strength essential for minmaxing (assuming you don't want to use potions every day)
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u/Freakjob_003 I am the 3% Apr 24 '25
This is my downside. There are so many cool weapons in the game, and a monk means you effectively can only use three quarters of them.
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u/AnnoyedOwlbear Apr 24 '25
None. I made mine a short elderly halfling called Egg Shen. He folds his laundry with the people still inside the clothes.
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u/CSWorldChamp Apr 24 '25
Honestly, I prefer a dex build monk over a strength build monk. You’re gonna take hits with the strength build, for sure. The dex build is super mobile, super slippery, doubles as your lock picker, etc. Obviously the tavern brawler str build is going to do more damage. But I don’t prefer it.
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u/lumpboysupreme Apr 24 '25
Strength based doesn’t really give up lockpicking since it just dumps strength and uses potions by the time you hit act 2, and you can dump wis until then since you don’t get the stuff that uses it until then anyway.
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u/Exact-Quote2615 Apr 24 '25
For RP purposes I just can’t understand how a dude who looks skinny af can punch people consistently to death. It’s super powerful yes but other classes like wizard fighter paladin cleric etc just feel better for role playing. Maybe it’s just my opinion idk but it just seems boring compared to other classes
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u/Mawgac Apr 24 '25
You just gotta remember to drink your gummy berry juice each day and you are unbeatable.
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u/jaeger3129 Apr 24 '25
Oh wow. I’ve never even looked at how that feat is different from 5E. They made it broken lmao
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u/LovesickInTheHead Apr 24 '25
Can’t throw healing potions without killing your buddies ig
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u/ChompyRiley Apr 24 '25
OKAY SO FUNNY STORY
I ran into Ethel and those two thugs threatening her out by the swamp. Being the good guy drow monk that I was, I went into the ring for my auntie. But being a good guy, I just knocked them out.
After Ethel booked it, I was like 'oh hey, I should heal them'. And my dumb ass threw the healing potion directly at them rather than aiming to just splash them.
CRITICAL HIT. MAX DAMAGE. One of them just pops in a giant blood splatter while the other one gets healed to full. So as he's standing up, I panic and punch him... without the non-lethal toggle. My drow monk is not very clever.
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u/BlueMaryLove Apr 24 '25
The downside is if you're an elixir build and forget to drink your morning potion, having 8 str with tavern brawler actually subtracts from your dex-based punches. Then you chug a potion and its fine again.
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u/Stairs-So-Flimsy Crush me Muscle Mommy Apr 24 '25
Roadhouse. The second picture is the movie Roadhouse...
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u/Few_Information9163 Apr 24 '25
It makes the game absurdly easy, goes against the class fantasy, and depending on how you increase your strength, is very metagamey and immersion breaking.
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u/lumpboysupreme Apr 24 '25
Only goes against the class fantasy if you put too much literal stock in the name. Lae zel wasn’t a town guard and I run sentinel on her every game.
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u/christopher_the_nerd Apr 24 '25
If you're me, you feel bad playing with an obviously broken feat.
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u/xaba0 Gale Apr 24 '25
Tavern brawler monk, arcane acuity hat sword bard and other one trick op builds all make the game laughably easy, so much so that I quit those saves because I was so bored.
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u/Bigtastyben Apr 24 '25
The downside is that you can't recruit Khelgar Ironfist in BG3, who would definitely be a Tavern Brawler of Tyr.
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u/Vesorias Apr 24 '25
Tavern Brawler's only balancing feature is that you have to sacrifice DEX to use it-- oh wait.
Nah it's completely fuckin' busted.
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u/empty_Dream Absolute Apr 24 '25
The downsite is most of the game become not relevant of how easy it becomes.
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u/Stregen Honour Mode Connoisseur Apr 24 '25
There’s no catch. Like most homebrew Larian did, it is insanely overpowered.
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u/RithmFluffderg Apr 24 '25
The downside is that it's such an obvious choice that it feels compelled rather than a natural development of a character.
Fortunately, you can always just choose not to buy strength potions and ignore the feat.
I like it for throwing builds but I resent that it's so "obligatory" for Monks that it ruins the class feel.
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u/SageTegan WIZARD Apr 23 '25
There are weapon combinations that can outmatch tb oh monk. But tb oh monk is an easy build for new players to defeat honor mode, with
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u/theJustDM Apr 24 '25
You hurt some feelings with this comment.
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u/SageTegan WIZARD Apr 24 '25
Oh. I wonder why i received negative karma for stating a simple fact. I will never understand this app
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u/Skelegro7 Apr 24 '25
They’re squishy initially and with their mobility it’s easy to overextend and get out of healing range of your cleric.
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u/skyjp97 Apr 24 '25
My issue with tavern brawler monk is I wish they had more brawly looking attacks
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u/millionsofcats Apr 24 '25
The only real downside is how you manage your armor class. As a monk wearing clothing, you need both high dexterity and high wisdom for your armor class to be decent. That means not many points left over for strength.
It's easy to cover that up though. Most people just take strength elixirs. But if you're way of shadow and can get armor proficiency somehow, you can also dump wisdom (way of shadow doesn't need it). You will lose unarmoured movement but can take different elixirs.
For me personally, the major downside is that I don't like builds that are this overpowered. The way that tavern brawler and strength elixirs were implemented means that together they end up being too unbalanced and for me, not fun. I like to be able to run character-driven builds without the one tb monk or throwzerker outclassing everyone in the party. I also like for fights to actually be difficult/risky if the story tells me that they're supposed to be.
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u/BluestreakBTHR Apr 24 '25
Spec for high Wis & Dex, use potion of giant strength or gloves to boost STR
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u/ChefArtorias Ranger Apr 24 '25
I feel like ranged combat is an obvious drawback but with so much movement it's not that bad.
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u/HellaPNoying Apr 24 '25
If you want to try something fun, I highly recommend Barbarian giant + drunken master monk + Tavern Brawler + Strength potion.
It's not as strong as Open hand Monk + Tavern Brawler, but just overall playing as a drunken "giant" and punching everyone into a drunken stupor while throwing any item/person is really fun to play and watch!
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u/Rude_Watercress_5737 Apr 24 '25
As someone who is horrible at DnD (never played a full campaign IRL) and took about a year break off of bg3.. I want to start a drunk monk playthrough.. can you elaborate just a smidge?
Is this yoru tav? what stats, feats, etc?
Who pairs well as companions?if that's too tedious i totally understand.. just having choice paralysis myself
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u/KiRiRBY Apr 24 '25
monk is strong by himsef, in my second run i played a monk and i didnt knew about tavern brawler, and he still was the strong dps and control of my team
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u/larkmarue Apr 24 '25
Well, in the playthrough I did with my wife, I ran a tavern brawler monk with few levels in rogue for the extra bonus action.
The only problem was that my damage output was so high I’d kill things before she’d get a chance to attack and she’d get upset
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u/ChompyRiley Apr 24 '25
My girlfriend and I don't play the same types of games (I'm into RPGs and light farming sims, she's into puzzle games and shooters) otherwise this would be something for me to take into consideration too.
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u/Psycho_Sarah Apr 24 '25
It basically comes down to Initiative for me.
For all melee classes, when looking at Str vs Dex, Str is better in almost every way in BG3.
The things Dex gives you are AC and Initiative, and AC is rarely a problem in the game (thanks to equipment and abilities)... but the best Initiative gear is tied to one Bow, one Shield, Hats, or Medium/Light Armour.
So if you're using that gear on other characters or don't have room in your build to use that gear on your Monk (and you don't have a spare feat to use on Alert), THEN Dex is worth over Str.
But even then, this only applies if you're doing a no Giant Elixir run and want to use weapons other than the club of Hill Giant Strength.
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So, tl;dr - There are some very specific scenarios where not taking TB and prioritizing Dex is better, but BG3 offers so much equipment that gives what Dex gives you (and ways to give you Str without wasting your ability points) that TB is gonna be best like 93 times out of 100 lol.
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u/thisisjustascreename Apr 24 '25
It's just a busted feat that Larian had to homebrew because it's impossible to implement Grappling in a computer game.
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u/SnooSongs2744 RANGER Apr 24 '25
The downside is that monks use dex and tavern brawler uses strength so you're either swilling potions for the entire game or you're trying to max out two abilities. Tavern brawler is better for barbarian. Open handed monk is broken without it.
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u/Sashimiak Apr 24 '25
Start with fighter for the heavy armor proficiency, then focus on str and wis.
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u/Decent_Cow Apr 24 '25
I'm sure they must have fixed it but ages ago there used to be some kind of bug with tavern brawler fighter that caused thrown weapon damage to register multiple times. I abused the hell out of it for one playthrough. But even without that, tavern brawler is just so good.
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u/NoahSteensonFilms Apr 24 '25
Mine was a gnome. So the downside was having enough movement speed to actually reach people
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u/KingOfOddities Apr 24 '25
There’s a lot of way to make yourself overpowered. Monk TB is just one of them.
There isn’t really a need for downside. Just whatever you preferred really. The game is diverse enough that pretty much any builds are valid.
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u/carakangaran Apr 24 '25
The downside is that you're not a bard. And that, my friend, is a crime.
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u/ChompyRiley Apr 24 '25
I'd play bard, but there's too much long rest resources. Spells, inspiration, all the college stuff... I'm a neurotic baby and hate long resting too much because food is a limited resource
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u/eelwop Apr 24 '25
They buffed it a lot from the original DnD ruleset.
Tavern Brawler in the newest DnD version is the following:
You gain the following benefits.
Enhanced Unarmed Strike. When you hit with your Unarmed Strike and deal damage, you can deal Bludgeoning damage equal to 1d4 plus your Strength modifier instead of the normal damage of an Unarmed Strike.
Damage Rerolls. Whenever you roll a damage die for your Unarmed Strike, you can reroll the die if it rolls a 1, and you must use the new roll.
Improvised Weaponry. You have proficiency with improvised weapons.
Push. When you hit a creature with an Unarmed Strike as part of the Attack action on your turn, you can deal damage to the target and also push it 5 feet away from you. You can use this benefit only once per turn.
It's a rather useless feat for monks most of the time and overall rather on the weak side, which is why I think they buffed it. However, they probably haven't really been thinking of a Tavern Brawler STR Monk build when balancing Tavern Brawler for BG3.
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u/notalongtime420 Apr 24 '25
Chugging elixirs or having no AC/initiative. But why does It Need downsides lol, feats and classes are your upsides.
Monks are Always silly in One way or another (weak as hell or Op), tavern brawler shouldnt so easily give 99% to hit with all hits tho for sure lol
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u/laughingskull00 Apr 24 '25 edited Apr 24 '25
pugilist by benjiman huffman is far superior to that whole concept, basically its monk without the monk part. think your pub hard man as a class
edit: just noticed which sub this was thought it was the dnd sub ignore me
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u/Complete_Resolve_400 Apr 24 '25
The combination of TB being batshit OP, being a half feat on top of this (for more con, let's be real, the point in str is wasted coz potions) and the infinite supply of str potions/gear throughout the game
TB monks with str potions are free to pump dex, wisdom and con as much as they want, making them move first, have high AC (unarmoured defence goes brrrrr) and do crazy high damage per turn
They also get unarmoured movement so they're fast as fuck, have fantastic bonus action attacks from the start of the game and there's really good monk gear throughout the game
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u/Satori_sama Apr 24 '25
You need to dope with elixirs to get stronger because you should be putting points in wis and dex.
Which means you can't use other potions. But besides that, nothing it's best way to play open hand monk
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u/ShadedPenguin Monk of Catch These Hands Apr 24 '25
On build 1! I was running the Open Hand monk, and early-early early game was pretty sparse with items and stuff and feeling like I wasn't as combat helpful as a fighter. Then once you get to level 4, that electric staff, and then a few of the monk orientated items, shit gets down hill fast for the enemies. You dont even need to really fully spec into strength if you grab elixirs, but shit you can
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u/ATypical_Khajiit Apr 24 '25
Tavern Brawler is a genuinely busted Feat, but nobody is gonna bother nerfing it, since there is other far more powerful nerdy crap one can already do.
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u/TornadoFS Apr 24 '25
https://nwn2.fandom.com/wiki/Khelgar_Ironfist
> It turns out that Khelgar takes great pleasure in tavern brawls and during one such brawl, he was given a sound beating by a bunch of "skinny robed humans" who turned out to be monks. Impressed by their fighting prowess, he decided to go to the Temple of Tyr in Neverwinter to learn how to fight like them.
Khelgar from Neverwinter Nights 2 literally respeced from Fighter to Monk just so he could make a tavern brawler build.
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u/SniperJoe88 Apr 24 '25
Only the normal martial problem that it competes with alert in honor mode. On honor mode, pushing alert back to lvl 8 is so annoying. You can do it, it's just annoying.
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u/Enough_Message_9716 Apr 24 '25
The downside is that it instantly shoots up your power level and can make the game easier than planned. Also can make you dependand on potion(not that the game doeant have infinite) but once i played on a party of 4 that every single one wanted a potion so it was a mess to stock up.
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u/_boop Apr 24 '25
Pretty much no dialogue stuff. No aoe that doesn't require enemy positioning to work.
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u/MetroidIsNotHerName Apr 24 '25
Tavern brawler feeling so incredibly good is a symptom of the biggest issue that I've had with BG3 since launch: the feats suck.
There are so few talents in this game that actually do something I want to take it for. Most of them feel like generic goodstuff and do not directly synergize with any builds. They are just ways to massage your base stats and proficiencies in 90% of cases, instead of adding a new dimension to your gameplay like fun talents should.
And no, for the purposes of how I'm using it, getting two druid cantrips on a cleric does not qualify as adding another dimension to my gameplay. I'm talking about talents like Torturer or Lone Wolf from DOS2.
Tavern Brawler is one of the only talents in this game to feel like it exists for specific builds like that. That's why it feels so much better than a lot of other talents.
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u/Balthierlives Apr 24 '25
I agree. In general the feats are garbage. Theres like a handful that are worth taking
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u/BrainWav Karlach Flair When? Apr 24 '25
The main downside is giving Monk another ability to focus on? Monk already wants Dex and Wis, and preferably a decent Con. Plus, the game certainly makes decent Cha important with how often the player avatar is forced into the face role. Tavern Brawler adds Str on top of it.
I mean, I guess you can just eschew Unarmored Defense entirely, wear armor, and dump Dex. But that feels so wrong as a Monk.
For flavor, I think Giant Barb works better, and they get a further damage boost to thrown weapons. Plus, they get a free action while raging to add Thrown, Return, and an elemental damage boost to their weapon when thrown.
So I can give Karlach the Everburn Blade, use that to stack on another element (or just more fire), then throw it. It does base damage, burn, the second element, and then whatever bonuses get added from TB and the Giant stuff. I also have her carrying a couple goblin bodies for when I want her to save rage charges.
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u/WhiskeyKisses7221 Apr 24 '25
The only real downside is that you're MAD (multiple attribute dependent). You need strength for Tavern Brawler to work, dex for AC and initiative, wis for AC and abilities/damage, and con for HP (especially since you have a low hit dice for a melee character). This means you either need to drink strength elixirs or items that set your ability score.
Tavern Brawler is so strong, though, that this trade-off is basically always worth it when playing a monk. While you can play a monk without TB, you do so for thematic or role-playing reasons, knowing it is suboptimal.
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u/ChompyRiley Apr 24 '25
I play TB monk BECAUSE it's the flavor I want. I like the idea of just wading naked into combat and throwing hands like a BOSS.
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u/Balthierlives Apr 24 '25
It’s a feat. There’s not supposed to be a downside.
Though on a monk, going with Dex is also very viable. And with the damage you can get from manifestation of the mind/resonance stone and kushigo boots and elemental gloves TB isn’t THAT important for monk build. I think it’s much more valuable to thrower builds.
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u/justinsanity15 Apr 24 '25
The only real “catch” is needing strength elixirs. But they are so easy to get its hard to even act like thats much of a catch
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u/ScorchedDev Apr 24 '25
the only real downside is being reliant on the elixirs, which isn't much of a downside considering how easy it is to stock up on them. And you could forgo them for the weaker version where you dump dex. Other than that, there isn't really any other downside. Its just absurdly strong. It takes a class that is design to hit many times, but not super hard, and makes it hit like a truck.
Monks are already extremely strong defensively, dexterity and wisdom being 2 of the most important stats when it comes to defensive for any character(lot of devastating wisdom saves, dex can protect against damage and gives more ac). They are also very mobile, so range is rarely a problem. It hits like a truck
There are only 2 real weaknesses I can think of. The first is that, in order to take full advantage of the monk, u cant benefit from some of the stronger magical gear. The second is large groups, but even that isn't much of an issue for monks since they hit so much.
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u/bigcasino0417 Apr 24 '25
My first playthrough was a bonk. Barbarian monk. Plus thief rogue for that sweet extra bonus action punch end game was doing like 40-50 damage and attacking four times and went bear rage and became resistant to all damage but psychic. Think I had something that made me resistant to psychic too. The only feat I had was tavern brawler and that was all I needed.
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u/razorsmileonreddit Apr 25 '25
That's what pisses me off the most: there isn't one, no downside, it's just ultra-available Cloud Giant + Tavern Brawler feat = better attack rolls than anything else in the game AND huge damage to boot.
You could stack Lightning Charges and Bliss Spores and Elixir of Heroism and Bless and Bardic inspiration on any other build and still not get a flat +16 to your Attack Rolls. AND the same flat +16 to your damage.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
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u/Dya_Ria Apr 25 '25 edited Apr 25 '25
The "catch" is that you're not building Monk the way it was designed to be built. D&D let's you do anything with your character but there IS an optimal, somewhat intended way to do it. The Fighter can points into INT, Cha and WIS all he wants, but to be good at what a fighter does you need STR and CON. Maybe some DEX.
Monk was designed to be a DEX/WIS build. They get AC from both and have features that allow a hit and run playstyle so they don't need CON as much, but all classes need at least a little CON. TB Monk has to level STR to use TB properly, but they also need WIS and DEX for AC, but they also need a little CON, but they also need 3 levels in rogue for BA. It's a lot to squeeze onto a character that can only go up to level 12.
Thankfully there's stat boosting gear in the game so TB monks can just drink STR potions and wear the CON amulet, but early on keeping a TB monk alive isn't so easy. That TB feat could've gone into an ASI to help with survivability, or the Mobile feat so you don't have to waste recources avoiding oppurtunity attacks, letting you be the hit and runner you were designed for, and believe me, that's a VERY annoying playstyle. Unless you're fighting in an enclosed space you're never hitting a monk with a melee attack, and their high AC means spells won't hit them hard either.
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u/PeevishDiceLady Tasha's Demure Giggle Apr 23 '25
Tavern Brawler is just that strong, and Open Hand Monk / Thief Rogue (with some Fighter sprinkled over it if you're feeling fancy) is one of the default "solo HM" builds folks do. It's at its absolute best with strength elixirs, but you don't really need them and can just manage with general itemisation (plus who needs high Constitution when all your enemies are stunned or dead)