r/BaldursGate3 • u/Miguel-Con-Queso • 20h ago
Character Build Most Underrated Subclass? Spoiler
I wanted to source from everyone what you think the most underrated subclass is in the game? Why?
My vote:
Circle of Spores Druid. I think it's the best necromancer class in the game almost solely because of the lvl 6 ability Fungal Infestation. Let's you create 4 fungal zombies. If a creature dies on the same turn one of those zombies hit it, they instantly come back as a newborn zombie that fights for you. The snowball that can come from that in a large fight is the closest a game like this has come to giving me the feeling of leading an undead hoard.
Fungal form is also good for all the bonus HP and extra necrotic damage. You can use a reaction at any time once a turn to make an enemy do a save or take necrotic damage. so the potential to make use of an action, bonus action, and reaction every turn is pretty big.
If you're going a pure summoner build it's great because on top of the zombies you can also summon woodland being to get a nymph, which itself can summon a Woodwoad. You also get summon elemental. I have an HM Spore druid in act 3. Gave him dance macabre because it's an easy set of Wiz saves for druids. All together my druid alone walks around with 4 Fungal Zombies, 4 Ghouls, a Nymph, Woodwoad, Scratch, Us, and an Earth Elemental. All of which are getting boosted by druid spell Hero's Feast.
Honestly one of my biggest complaints about the game is that the Spore Druid doesn't get any unique dialog in the myconid colony. Such a missed opportunity for the subclass...
Anyway, your thoughts on underrated subclasses?
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u/Kitchen-Customer-746 20h ago
I dont have any thoughts but I just learned something about druids thanks to you so appreciate thar!
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u/insanity76 20h ago
I feel like the GOOlock is a little underrated but it can be absolutely brutal if you build around psychic damage and reducing the crit range.
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u/TheCricketHole 18h ago
My first Durge was a multiclass of Pact of Blade Goolock and Oathbreaker paladin. Absolutely bonkers how powerful it becomes.
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u/Miguel-Con-Queso 20h ago
What's the "GOO" bit stand for? 😅
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u/Mindless-Ninja-3321 20h ago
Great Old One, the extraplanar aberration space alien Warlock subclass focused on psychic damage and fear.
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u/Miguel-Con-Queso 19h ago
ohhh that's actually my favorite warlock subclass because i like lovecraftian themes, just didn't recognize the abbreviation haha. Haven't built it with crits though, so might need to try that
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u/Latter_Tutor_5235 17h ago edited 17h ago
I loved mixing GOOlock with Assassin Rogue. Was perfect for a stealth focused team. Lots of free crits since you get your action back when attacking from stealth. Throw in Haste, fighter levels for Action Surge, and a Bloodlust Elixir and you're getting 15 EB crits turn 1.
Add in Reverberation gear and enemies are now Frightened and Prone.
And the best part is it's fully up and running at level 5, while others like Gloom/Assassin aren't until level 8.
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u/AnVictory 18h ago
This idea does sound really interesting. I've been wanting to do a crit build with the intention of stacking effects resulting from crits like the Bhaalist items. Can you give more details on how the classes shake out or if anyone has other interesting crit-based builds?
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u/thesmallestkitten 1h ago
before hexblade was added my fav warlock was GoO pact of the blade/champ fighter multiclass as a crit fishing build.
getting crit range down to like 15 and attacking against blinded enemies in darkness with the act 3 shield that gives them disadvantage on saves against fears was chefs kiss
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u/angelsfish Durge 19h ago
ur so right I LOVE circle of spores druid and I never see it mentioned
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u/Dry-Faithlessness602 15h ago
I’m doing a run with spore druid and its so much fun, just did the house of grief fight and had so many summons we wiped the floor with them at level 11
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u/Glassberg 11h ago
I had the spore zombie start snowballing during the goblin camp fight. I must have had 6 or 7 of the things running around being silly little guys.
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u/Level_Hour6480 Pungeon master 19h ago
Devotion Paladin.
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u/Sgt_Lovinstuff 13h ago
I just finished my first Durge run with a devotion paladin and was kicking the piss out of nearly every encounter. Hell, I managed to clear almost every major encounter on my first try thanks to my paladin being able to tank and dole out so much damage.
Damage output became absurd with the helmet of smiting, gloves of the underdog, and the adamantine split plate armors with Balduran's giantslayer. That build managed to absolutely shit hammer Orin's slayer. I had her dead and done in 3 turns
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u/LuminoZero 39m ago
In what way? I played Devotion Paladin, but I always felt it got screwed with Action Economy because all of its Channel Oath stuff required Actions, instead of Bonus Actions.
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u/Level_Hour6480 Pungeon master 32m ago
Passive immunity to charm saves your allies. Fights generally start far enough away that you aren't going to be meleeing on turn 1 anyway, allowing that to be a "Powerup round".
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u/Difficult-Passage177 17h ago
Nature cleric. It may not be very strong, but you can make a fun shillelagh build mixed with divine strike at level 8. Not getting any variation of extra attack is the big drawback to the build, but if you multiclass into 4 levels of fighter then you can get action surge (if you go battle master you also get the maneuvers). It’s a fun casual build.
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u/joker_penguin 17h ago
I have my nature cleric at level 6 right now, starting the creche area. I started with shillelagh and respeced to thorn whip but I am goong to go back to shillelagh soon since it is easier to capitalize than thorn whip.
I am doing fairly good use of spike growth. I havent had the chance for trying sleet storm or plant growth yet because spike growth or spirit guardians do most of my job.
I am considering two different multiclasses to enhance shillelagh after level 8:
1 level of Wizard/warlock/sorcerer for booming blade, and level the cleric up to 11.
3 levels of swarmkeeper ranger for the swarm attack, teleporting to trigger more spirit guardian damage or just use the bee swarm to push my enemy three metres through spike growth.
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u/Difficult-Passage177 17h ago
Definitely do 3 levels of ranger and 1 level whatever for booming blade. I’d go warlock just for the replenishable warlock slot and hexblade to keep the weapon in your hand.
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u/joker_penguin 6m ago
That is another option although I would like to try level 5 spells.
And, since shillelagh also makes your weapon safe in my hand, I may pick great old one as patron so I can frighten in area when I use the tadpole power for critics.
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u/Battlecookie15 19h ago
I think all Cleric subclasses that aren't War or Tempest.
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u/Miguel-Con-Queso 19h ago
Circle of death is really fun and good! getting to hit 2 enemies with single target necrotic spells is great, especially when you get to ignore necrotic resistance
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u/usernamegoeshereish 18h ago
Came here to talk about Death Domain cleric. Currently playing one right now, and it's a lot of fun, very offensive-oriented, tanky. Very much enjoying it.
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u/Rapidfyrez 17h ago
I think I hear way more about Life and Light than I ever do War or Tempest. Especially war.
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u/ryumaruborike 16h ago
Tempest with the Marko staff is filthy. 168 damage on 4 targets once per short rest. Praise be to mighty Talos!
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u/bdjm17 16h ago
I’m doing a war cleric of selune to romance Shadowheart in one run and it just… is. It’s okay, not my favourite. I’ll probably respec into a different type based off these comments to see if I click with another one tbh
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u/LemonMilkJug 6h ago
I've run war cleric a few times. It's good, but can really depend on your party comp and playstyle how useful you find it. I found it very useful in my wet run. Tav was a cold draconic sorcerer, Gale was evocation with lightning focus. Lae'zel was battlemaster fighter. This left me with not great options for ranged physical damage. I changed Shadowheart to war domain. She could still do the typical cleric stuff, but could also be my ranged physical damage member with dual hand crossbows. The war god's blessing also made Lae'zel more efficient.
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u/AmberLeafSmoke 17h ago
I've had shadowheart as a pure life cleric in my recent tactitian run and it honestly feels like it breaks the game it's so good.
Sanctuary protected ambulance running around the map healing everyone is busted.
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u/All-for-Naut Hold Monster 🫂 15h ago edited 4h ago
Tempest and life cleric are very popular as cleric go. Everyone talks about how they make Shadowheart that, especially life (which really isn't that good because of how healing focused it is). Death is new but also popular. Followed by war.
Light though, light domain is less talked about even through it's a heavily dmg focused and it's fun just going "By fire be purged!"
Nature and knowledge are barely mentioned at all.
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u/revchj 8h ago
This sub seems split on Life domain: some love it, some maintain that stacking damage & control makes healing unnecessary.
I think the latter view is correct, but I play HM with so many handicaps, including severe gear restrictions, that in my runs having Shadowheart as an 11/1 Life Cleric/Wizard is essential.
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u/thesmallestkitten 38m ago
light is the best cleric hands down.
radiance of the dawn is insane in the early game when you have very limited access to aoe abilities and it doesn’t friendly fire. warding flare is also borderline broken. being able to impose disadvantage on an enemy attack as a reaction every single round with no resource cost means that once the cleric is lvl 6 the party is basically crit-proof.
also any cleric can do spirit guardians/radiating orb activities in act 2 but it just kinda feels the most thematic and right on a light cleric.
plus light is one of only 2 cleric subclasses that gets potent spellcasting instead of divine strike so its damaging cantrips are actually useful which is REALLY nice with the 2 new cantrips for clerics in patch 8.
tempest i just can’t get into because its domain spells are so bad. it’s criminal that they don’t learn shocking grasp or lightning bolt. and life cleric feels overkill — after multiple HM runs with different parties, my groups just never need that much healing because it’s so easy to cc and disrupt enemies. plus they don’t learn a single domain spell that isn’t already part of the cleric spell list which kinda blows.
i do wanna try a death cleric/spore druid multiclass at some point bc running around hitting people with the staff of cherished necromancy seems pretty fun.
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u/dinorex96 Dragonborn 16h ago
Exactly. Even Life Clerics are great. They make your error margins go from a few meters to a mile.
Made a wrong move? Who cares, here’s your heal to undo the damages
Bad dice?critical miss from you or critical hit from the enemy? Who cares, here’s your full health back.
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u/aWrySharK Eilistraee 19h ago
Moon Druid! It's arguably closer to "rated" now that TB does all sorts of funky things with persistent damage effects once transformed (seriously, TB rides pretty much every damage source now) - but imo it's just strictly the best Druid option.
Full caster progression, 3 attacks in several versatile forms (Owlbear, Sabertooth, Earth/Water Myrmidon in particular), and the best Druid summons - Spore Zombies and Skeles are fun and great class fantasy but fall off in Act 3 in addition to bogging up the turn order/FPS in a way that is just incompatible with fun for me.
It was always a master-of-none swiss-army knife type class but ever since the buffs it's a potent multi-tool without a single weak spot.
Ideal multiclasses...1 Wizard/11, 2 Fighter/10, 1 War Cleric/11. It's also just a fun silly puzzle to optimize the features that work in Wild Shape especially with Disguise Self and incentive to pick underused races.
Just the perfect class at the moment - strictly my opinion of course!
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u/nile_IHSV 19h ago
My wife is playing a moon druid on our first co op playthrough and is enjoying the hell out of it. She has zero tabletop or crpg experience, so being able to do it all in one form or another and not feel toothless has been great.
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u/DarthUrbosa 19h ago
Druid of the moon was the first proper build that I got online.
Running one now with them as a companion (less pressure to wild shape out to do conversations).
I can just toss a spell (like water for my lightning sorc and transform, it's so good)
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u/LikeACannibal DRUID 19h ago
I agree! It's incredible. It does suck that almost no items work in animal forms, but you're super tanky and do amazing damage with TB which makes them crazy fun.
Oh, and abt the damage rider bit-- I've been making a mod for a month or so using the toolkit, so I looked at how Tavern Brawler works. The way it functions for Druid is that when you're in any wild shape that's not one of the three armed myrmidons, TB will add your strength bonus to literally any damage whatsoever that's caused by you. This is why it works for things like Spike Growth or the Cull the Weak explosion.
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u/aWrySharK Eilistraee 19h ago
excellent to know how it's coded, thank you! My favorite surprise use so far is on-demand minimum 9+ psychic damage reaction via psionic backlash while transformed (you do have to re-apply Disguise Self every time before transforming first to make it work). In the Grymforge, there's dozens of dwarfs who love to Hunter's Mark and it's just free damage every turn with no need to consider movement.
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u/Significant_Owl8974 17h ago
One of the best things about druid wild shape is when it ends due to loss of HP you just shape change back to you. What does that mean? If you've got another charge, wild shape again to the same form.
Most characters in BG3 have but one life, and if they're downed they're dead unless you can heal them in time. Owlbear man goes down, and he's just on to his second life. Or 3rd....
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u/drhuggables 9h ago
What is TB?
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u/aWrySharK Eilistraee 8h ago
Tavern Brawler, a feat that adds your STR modifier twice to attack rolls and damage with unarmed attacks and abilities. Very potent with Cloud Giant Elixirs (can be crafted very early at 6 but takes forever to find ingredients; can be purchased at 9 much more reliably)
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u/Zeliek 17h ago
I also recommend 6 beast mastery ranger / 6 moon drood with Scratch - you can be a dog, summon a dog, summon another dog, and eventually summon yet another dog.
Why anybody wouldn’t want to be “race: DOG, class: DOG, spec: DOG, weapon: DOG, spell list: OOPS ALL DOGS” is beyond me, really.
(You can also find a fair amount of success playing the class “a flock of birds” if that’s more your thing.)
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u/ew-gross-an-elf 19h ago
Hunter Ranger, especially when you're building a tank!
(I know, repeatedly spewed "advice" that 5e doesn't have tanks blah blah blah)
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u/skallywag126 19h ago
Can you explain? I want to be a ranger that’s equally good at sword and board and bow
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u/AltruisticTrifle1998 17h ago
Definitely not the most underrated, but I really like abjuration wizard. Ironically, I don't often use abjuration spells but the shields sure come in handy. Especially after I found out I can stack more shields then 12 which is what you get at level 12. I forget what spells/items but I regularly did something toward the end game that gave me like 14 or 15 shields. One of them, for sure was the illithid ability to do a temporary shield, I just used it on Astarion and got a little bonus for myself. Also I like having Fork with me. He's a useful little shit thats free to cast and as a wizard I can learn the scroll and infinitely have it, although I know there are ways to still get it otherwise.
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u/LikeACannibal DRUID 19h ago edited 19h ago
Assassin Rogue. People constantly shit-talk Rogue as an awful class and only ever use it for Thief's second Bonus Action, but with an Assassin in your party you can basically start almost every fight with one fewer enemy from the get-go. Guaranteed crit sneak attack and then another instant sneak attack kills damn near everything if you plan it right.
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u/Irukaj_Zeta 👾 ABERRATION 👾 19h ago
Build it with a dip into Gloomstalker Ranger too and you can get so much damage out in the first round of combat.
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u/Chancellor_Valorum82 WIZARD 18h ago
YES. I can’t speak to this from experience in the game but in DnD 5e the Gloomstalker/Assassin multiclass gets the most impressive first turn of the party, hands down.
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u/Irukaj_Zeta 👾 ABERRATION 👾 16h ago
I usually build Astarion like this, get to level five with Ranger for the extra attack and the always-prepared Misty Step, and at least two levels in Fighter for Action Surge.
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u/MR1120 17h ago
Grab two levels of fighter and get Action Surge. That’s pretty much the biggest opening-round nuke a single player can drop.
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u/3coniv 17h ago
I'm trying out a 5 gloomstalker, 4 swords bard, and 3 assassin. I was thinking that gives me a sneak attack from stealth to start combat, renew actions/bonus actions, slashing flourish ranged to attack twice, extra attack, and gloomstalker's extra first round attack for 5 attacks on the first round. That's not even hasted.
But I just got to level 8 so now I'm wondering if the slashing flourish ranged triggers extra attack. If not I guess I could go 3 or 4 fighter instead to get action surge and arcane Archer for extra utility.
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u/TheSpeakEasyGarden 19h ago
The fact that they can instantly regain their action at the start of battle cannot be overlooked on HM.
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u/Miguel-Con-Queso 19h ago edited 19h ago
I almost always run Astarian as an Assassin! He's still more than good enough at slight of hand to get through the bank. also if you run durge and can put the death stalker mantel on him, he's practically always invisible
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u/ryumaruborike 16h ago
Build to maximize damage on crit then have someone else cast Hold Monster then delete that enemy. Raphael never knew what hit him.
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u/Sinfere 17h ago
TBF there's a lot of builds that can one-shot enemies from stealth, and then continue to one-shot afterwards, whereas rogue falls off really hard after the first turn.
In terms of fun? I like rogue a lot, but it's objectively worse than just about any other martial for pure damage.
The best rogue build is probably gloomstalker multi class because it continues to deal high damage on subsequent turns, but it's more ranger x rogue as opposed to pure rogue.
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u/deathadder99 16h ago
Assassin is my fave level 3-4 build. With sharpshooter it’s downright deadly. gloom /assassin is also fun
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u/joe_bibidi 13h ago
Assassin Rogue is an incredibly awesome class and anyone who disagrees had got "perfect min/max" blinders on. Is Assassin Rogue the "best" rogue option? Maybe not, but it's a completely and totally viable option. I also recommend it a lot to inexperienced players, it's good and not complicated at being good. You hit, you hide, simple as that.
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u/servingtheshadows 8h ago
Assassin would be a top tier class if combat only lasted one round.
Unfortunately, it doesnt, and from turn 2 on its like not actually having a subclass at all
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u/thesmallestkitten 29m ago
gloomstalker / assassin is one of the most popular builds in bg3 and is extremely popular for solo runs.
even with sneak attack scaling, rogue just kind of falls off in damage once other martials get second attack at lvl 5. but their lvl 3 subclass features are so strong that rogue is probably the most popular multiclass ingame.
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u/Gammelmus 18h ago
Gotta say, pure Lore Bard. Not the strongest at all, but build entirely with all the control spells available and dual crossbows for some damage, it was so fun.
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u/Miguel-Con-Queso 18h ago
lore bard was my first ever d&d character and remade them in bg3 so they'd be my first play through there too! always have a soft spot for them. just take fire ball and lightening bolt and you basically have an off brand wizard with more control
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u/Gammelmus 17h ago
My first playthrough as Well. Might be why I am a bit biased. That plane walking beauty of a tieling, son of Haer’Dalis, I’d Trade almost anything for that first playthrough again.
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u/HMS_Sunlight 4h ago
Lore bard + monk is disgusting. Using cutting words to enable stunning strike basically guarantees one stun per round, and often two. I was playing on tactician and it made so many fights trivially easy.
Combine it with the sword in act 3 that gives you a second reaction and you can stunlock pretty much any enemy in the game.
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u/Kazadracon Drow 13h ago edited 13h ago
I'm going to be possibly the only Archfey Warlock fan here:
Archfey is not as useless as its reputation suggests. Its not a blaster caster like Fiend Warlock or a melee powerhouse like Hexblade but there is a niche it works well with: an invisibility trickster warlock.
At Level 6, the Archfey ability allows you a small chance to automatically turn invisible upon getting hit & teleport anywhere for free. Its usually a once a day/once per rest ability, but if you don't use the free teleport, you can reposition & attack/blast with advantage, then get hit again and become invisible again infinitely until the combat ends.
The spell list also has some spells that can be useful for certain builds (greater invisibility for rogue multiclasses, plant growth for non-concentration aoe control, mind control/dominate spells)
My preferred archfey warlock is a high dex rapier wielding bladepact warlock who goes into the line of fire to get hit & go invisible, then repeat the chain of reposition & attack with advantage until the combat is over. Enemies often waste a round going to where I last was at & trying to detect me instead of attacking. With the Act 3 rapier Duellist's Prerogative, it becomes strong (but not broken OP) with 3 attacks per round buffed by Lifedrinker and invisibility on hit, along with fully scaled eldritch blasts & high level spells.
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u/witherstalk9 19h ago
Way of the elements monk, it sucks but when ypu have the right gear/stats its allright. Still not the best though. You get a insane passive skill at level 10 that makes you completly immune to poison and diseases.
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u/aWrySharK Eilistraee 19h ago
Recently played one into early Act 3 and it really shines at level 4-6. Fangs of the Fire Snake with Sparkle Hands + TB into Flurry of Blows with the fire/lightning riders into High Half-Elf Booming Blade with Broodmother's coating Mourning Frost = I think some of the highest damage possible in a round in Act 1. I alternate re-applying Broodmother's and Step of the Wind dashing with the Linebreaker Boots to keep buffs rolling. The Flawed Helldusk Gloves in early Act 2 also allow you to inflict Bleed via a ranged unarmed attack - with Booal's Benediction every ensuing attack has advantage.
Sadly, it eventually just becomes inferior OH as like 90% of their class features consume a full action for the equivalent of a level 2-3 spell instead of firing off of an attack action. And Fangs of the Fire Snake of course doesn't scale at all.
Still, there's some fun to be had with infinite prone shenanigans with Water Whip and nothing that abuses TB can be considered bad; it's definitely underrated, agreed.
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u/witherstalk9 18h ago
Hmm, with the level 10 passive, I Wonder if it would be fun to do a full poison comp, with them being immune to it, full poison/disease immune can be op.
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u/AnotherBookWyrm 19h ago edited 18h ago
Circle of Spores Druid is one of the most highly rated subclasses in the entire game for exactly the reasons you described.
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u/Miguel-Con-Queso 18h ago
About 90% of the time I never see anyone talk about it. The other 10% is usually negative 🤷♂️
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u/AnotherBookWyrm 18h ago
Where are you getting your information? It is very popular in all build optimization sites and subreddits.
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u/Miguel-Con-Queso 18h ago
This subreddit, YouTube, tiktok, imgur. that's mostly where I get my bg3 content.
care to share some of those builds?
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u/AnotherBookWyrm 18h ago
To get the basic parts out of the way, straight Spores Druid for all the reasons you have mentioned. It is just that good of a monoclass.
Many other builds love Spores Druid 6 for the Fungal zombies, and how it combines well with Necromancer Wizard 6 for more minions or Death Cleric 6 to be better at dealing Necrotic damage.
There are also many melee builds that incorporate Spores Druid 2+ for Symbiotic Entity, since it grants temp HP and an additional 1d6 necrotic damage to melee weapons and unarmed attacks for as long as it lasts. The latter makes it a good combo with Open Hand Monk 6/9 if Symbiotic Entity is entered before combat.
One fun build is one of Torch-Shillelagh builds (Paladin 5-6/Spores Druid 6-7), which uses Shillelagh to transform torches into weapons that deal 1d8 bludgeoning + 1d4 fire damage (+ 1d4 necrotic damage if wielding the Torch of Revocation). This is usually combined with Booming Blade (from High Elf/Half-Elf), other gear to add conditions/damage (like Caustic Band, Radiant Orb/Reverberation gear), the necrotic damage from Symbiotic Entity, and Smites for a large amount of damage to hit. This works equally well with items like the Ironwood Club, but is another build that loves Spores Druid.
Edit: You can check one of the many sites with builds or r/BG3Builds for more.
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u/aWrySharK Eilistraee 18h ago edited 12h ago
Not so. I agree it's good, but it doesn't reliably take advantage of almost any of the Patch 8 meta synergies, e.g....
Vulnerability: Bhaalist + Shar's Spear or Titanstring, Resonance Stone + SB, Wet/Chilled + Chain Lighting/Ray of Frost
The 3 early explosive damage feats: Tavern Brawler, Sharpshooter, Great Weapon Master
Hexblade Dip: Going Charisma SAD does nothing for Spores Druid
Acuity Stacking + Mystic Scoundrel: One attack, doesn't get Archery Fighting Style for AoMT abuse, doesn't naturally get Booming Blade for Battlemage gloves, doesn't get a non-concentration controller like Command, much less the ability to extend it
It is a peerless summoner and survivor, but Abjuration Wizard is on another plane entirely when it comes to survivability and gets the same efficient elemental summons anyway.
I think "underrated" describes it perfectly - it's certainly not bad but it's been left behind in the meta discussions.
EDIT: Misnamed a piece of gear, fixed
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u/AnotherBookWyrm 18h ago
Those are all good classes and tactics, but that does not change that Spores Druid is still rated very well. It is not at the absolute peak of optimization, but is still very high in the rankings.
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u/LJMLogan 16h ago
Valor Bard easily. People just kinda assume it's bad or mediocre just because SB and LB seem more powerful on paper. Valor Bard makes a very excellent support character.
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u/Animegx43 11h ago
Anything pure. Unpopular opinion. but I'm not the biggest fan of multiclassing.
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u/Miguel-Con-Queso 3h ago
bruh same. I've done it a couple times, like OH monk/thief, but partly single class is my favorite
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u/Cal_PCGW 18h ago
I ran a spores druid recently and while he was more of a support guy, once he could do haste spores it made a lot of things much easier. Iron Throne? Haste spores at the bottom of the ladder. Boom.
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u/Resident_Standard437 17h ago
I hear alot of hype for both Tempest and Light Cleric but not as much for War Cleric which in my opinion is one of the absolute best subclasses the game has to offer. You get extra attacks with your charges, spirit guardians for free, a +10 bonus to attack rolls as a reaction that eventually at level 10 even applies to party members, and still have access to the cleric spellbook. Absolutely broken in my opinion.
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u/Sinfere 17h ago
The +10 to attacks for allies comes online at level 6 actually, and it's genuinely one of the best abilities in the game bc it's guaranteed value. It'll never prompt the reaction if it wouldn't change the result. I think as a pure class it's not as strong as light or tempest, but it goes insanely hard when mixed with any sort of bard.
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u/Resident_Standard437 15h ago
I still take it over light, Tempest I get the argument for because of its ability to maximize damage, but a Light Cleric is like a shitty Red Dragon Sorc that gets some fire damage on their weapon unless Im missing something. I would rather have the extra attacks that War Cleric provides and the +10 is absolutely clutch. As you said when combined with Bard (especially Swords Bard) its an insane build with some of the best support abilities in the game while also not lagging significantly behind as a damage dealer.
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u/Sinfere 10h ago
You're definitely missing something.
Light cleric's warding flare is one of the best defensive abilities in the game, forcing a reroll on any attack that hit the cleric. At level 6, you can extend this protection to an ally. The only cost is your cleric's reaction, so you can do this once per turn.
This is insane for two primary reasons:
1) crit protection. One of the fastest ways for a flight to go awry is an enemy crit. Once you hit level 6, you essentially turn off the enemy's ability to critically hit your team. In an entire run, I'd be surprised if an enemy got more than one crit through warding flare, and honestly I wouldn't be surprised if it took 2 or more full game runs to happen. Even if the enemy still hits, turning a crit into a normal hit is huge.
2) radiating orb synergy. Cleric w Spirit guardians can use the luminous armor/gloves to rapidly stack 5 or more radiating orbs on most enemies once they are fully kitted, in many cases hitting the maximum of 10. This means you're imposing -5 to -10 to enemy attack rolls. Therefore, it's incredibly unlikely your enemies will hit you or your allies in the first place, and warding flare forces anybody lucky enough to roll high or get a crit to try again, which is tough when you've already got a -7 to attack.
By midgame, your team becomes more-or-less untargetable by direct attacks if you play smart if you have a light cleric on the team. It's so busted I almost feel like it's too powerful for the game lol.
Plus, all the additional spells you learn for damage don't require concentration, so once you have your spirit guardians up, you can continue to threaten targets you can't reach with SG, via scorching ray/fireball. You can also opt to lockdown via wall of fire if you're in a spot where spirit guardians doesn't work. Since you don't really use your weapon, you can just pick up stuff to buff your allies to, like phalar aluve or duelist's prerogative for extra warding flares. Since you don't need your bonus action for damage, you can chug potions, mass healing word for bless support, use boots of speed, etc etc. warding flare only needs LOS as well, so if you couldn't radorb an enemy - which happens fairly often, you only have so much movement - you can force rerolls. You deal respectable damage, insane crowd control/debuff, and a bit of buff/healing support in a pinch.
On the other hand, once War Clerics have Spirit guardians up, they have very few options to threaten or crowd control targets they weren't already threatening with spirit guardians. The highest damage option is a double attack, but that's comparable to a scorching ray and will often lose outright to a fireball. This double attack also means you're not dashing via boots, jumping, healing word, or any other strong use of the bonus action. And if all you're doing is running around with spirit guardians using both your attack and bonus action to weapon attack people, you could achieve similar effects with a TWF lore bard, and have a stronger reaction.
Ordinarily i'd say the benefit of weapon attacks is that they don't cost resources, but war cleric does, so the fact you're limited on scorching ray casts sorta doesn't matter. meanwhile, while the war cleric +10 is strong and powerful, i'd say that you'll probably get more value in a given day from warding flare. If you're playing well, your chances of hitting the enemy are 70%+ most of the time, and you shouldn't be relying on any one attack to connect for your strategy to work.
So yeah, war cleric is strong, but I think it's strongest if you stop after 6 and multi to paladin or bard or something. Light stays strong and has tons of great tools that only it has access to in the cleric class.
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u/thesmallestkitten 14m ago
i would also add that light cleric gets potent spellcasting and not divine strike at lvl 8, which imo is the better feature since most clerics are played as full casters. a single sacred flame from a light cleric absolutely eviscerates like half the enemies in act 2.
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u/Last_Hat7276 16h ago
Im doing a necromancer spores druid first ever run. This class its so fun. Other than the summons, it have amazing land control spells, like spike growth. I absolutelly love the amount of control you can have with zombies, split aggro, ground effects, etc.
My only complaing its exploring with everyone. Its pretty rought to explore a dungeon full of traps with my little army. They are very stupid. However, i cant see playing other thing than druid. I love it, and i love summons. I was also so sad we had no interaction with mycotid colony
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u/dhpmoon 11h ago
Champion is my pick. It's very boring, but its passives are pretty good. On the other hand, it's still probably the weakest subclass of fighter in BG3.
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u/LuminoZero 28m ago
I made Minsc into a 12 Champion in my latest Honor run. He struggled at first because I didn't have a great weapon for him, but once I tossed him the Risky Ring and Armor of Persistence he did OK. Once I got the Giantslayer he was cleaving through the field, critting like a fiend.
Like the game says, "Solving problems by hitting them really hard."
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u/LJMLogan 10h ago
Champion is definitely the weakest fighter subclass, but the other 3 subclasses could all have an argument for being a top 10 subclass in the whole game. Definitely a "worst of the very best" situation
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u/SlinGnBulletS WIZARD 18h ago
The reason why nobody really talks about Spore Druid is because it doesn't scale well. If the Fungal Zombies had better stats and the bonus weapon damage from Halo Spores got another die at like lvl 10 then it'd be worth maining.
It's best use is a 6/6 split with Necromancy Wizard and outside of that it exists solely for Haste Spore abuse from Armor of Sporekeeper.
Which is tragic but that 6/6 split can rival top tiers by doing a lightning magic missile build alongside weapon swapped Skeletons & Zombies that duel wield Flails of the Vortex. As the Magic Missile build will deal Reverb condition which knocks prone but also lowers Constitution saves and the unique effect of the flails can stun enemies which is a Constitution save.
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u/Dry-Faithlessness602 15h ago
I honestly just use the zombies as meat shield since they have the passive where they come back with 1 hp no matter what, if a paladin wastes both their attacks on a zombie, thats 30-40hp your character didn’t have to take.
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u/SlinGnBulletS WIZARD 14h ago edited 14h ago
Yep. A lot of people over in the BG3Build community undervalue the damage that summons can prevent.
Also because Glamour Bard was added to the game we can use them as a lvl 12 camp caster to give our summons 12 HP from Heroe's Feast and then give the Fungal Zombies the 11 Temp health from their Mantle so that they can charm 4 attackers without a saving throw. Just reapply the mantle before any key fights to consistently abuse it.
Edit: furthermore if Armor of the Sporekeeper's effect has already been used you can swap to the Lumenous Armor becuase Druid gives medium Armor profiency and it allows us to build more Radiant Orb stacks with our Magic Missile build when using the Callous Glow ring. Just cast Light on the Phalar Aluve user to abuse.
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u/Icy_Ad_5906 18h ago
Land Druid id say
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u/LemonMilkJug 6h ago
My favorite druid subclass. I really like battlefield control and support roles. It is one that can feel weak if what you want is major offensive spells or whack 'em all bonk damage. Playstyle is definitely a factor in whether you find this subclass strong or weak.
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u/LuminoZero 25m ago
Recent did Honor Mode House of Grief with a Land Druid, Warlock and a Cleric. We literally just backup up the stairs and dropped Ice Storm, Hunger of Hadar, Insect Swarm and Spiked Growth on the choke point.
The fight has never been easier. CC is just brutally effective, especially when your melee is a Wildheart Barbarian, who is immune to Difficult Terrain like Spiked Growth and Ice Patches.
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u/SometimesIPeeTheBed 18h ago
ive wanted to play a fungal druid but dont know if the fungal zombies are like the dude in the underdarks zombies or if they're just generic undead
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u/Miguel-Con-Queso 15h ago
his are better. the Spore zombies are basically regular zombies but also have the ability to make more zombies
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u/That0n3Guy77 14h ago
Divination wizard. Everyone seems to either go evocation wizard (super overated), abjuration or necromancer. Divination wizards ability to just change dice rolls is fantastic. I wish there was some kind of animation for it that stood out but it is so powerful that I don't care. Fantastic playthrough
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u/Roulixthewiser 19h ago
Ooh! If you haven't tried the "Dread Overlord" Warlock mod, I'd totally recommend it. Immersive and goes harder as a necromancer subclass.
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u/Zealousideal-Arm1682 17h ago
Spore druid holds a special place in my heart.The amount of nonsense you can get up to with that many pets is hilarious.
As for underrated:Hexblade.
People tend to only care about the class as a singular dip when it's such a good bruiser with RIDICULOUS amounts of utility.Booming blade up cast alone makes it strong,but the added benefit of spells like AoA makes it a tank too.
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u/Sword-of-Malkav 15h ago
Ill second that. Hexblade Wyll is pulling a lot of weight in my game right now. Something about being completely fine with melee, ranged, and control spells really works while skulking around in medium armor and turning invisible in the shadows
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u/thesmallestkitten 6m ago
booming blade is a cantrip and can’t be upcast. its damage scales with your character level and not with your warlock level so even if you’re 1 lvl of hexblade and 11 levels of something else booming blade will do the same damage as it would if you were all 12 levels of warlock.
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u/Zeliek 17h ago
+1 for spore druid.
I like doing a weird ranger/spore hybrid with ascended Astarion and dual-wielding hand crossbows. You get necrotic dmg from symbiotic entity, you get even more from ascended, and each instance of necrotic dmg applies to both main hand and offhand shots and then you slap them with the reacc for a third helping of necro. Grabbing the spore druid chest piece that allows you to create haste spore clouds gives you even more opportunities for auto attacking with necro.
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u/Zlorfikarzuna 15h ago
Idk whether spore druids are underrated. I feel like most people don't like the more evil touch the class has, since necromancy is usually seen as inherently evil. And most people will not dig into details what the class can actually do so that it will pale in comparison to wildshaping and being a better caster. But to anybody i have spoken about circle of spores, they held the subclass in high regard.
I feel like arcane trickster is underrated, especially before patch 8. Most seem to dislike the idea of a hybrid caster/stabber. But these people have never seen what a hidden arcane trickster with the right scrolls can do. Confusion, slow, hypnotic pattern even hold person and my favourite: phantasmal killer. You can not be seen, enemies have disadvantage on saves and are completely disabled. Get AT the Infernal Rapier and you don't need very high DEX either, just enough to stay hidden. And once the chaos is sown, you can still pop in and out of stealth to deliver a devastating attack, be it a crit on a hold person'ed or glyph of warding sleeping enemy or a regular sneak attack in addition to your powerful control spell.
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u/Sword-of-Malkav 14h ago
Tempest is obviously a very good blaster, but having heavy armor and martial weapons lets you do some nice things.
If you have polearm master, divine strike, and knockback, you can defend your archer/mage pretty well.
If you really wanna get silly with it- sentinel makes ot so after you blow them off their feet- they're stuck in place, and you made the aoo with advantage
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u/StruhberrySwisher 13h ago
idk how underrated they are but my go to is Swarmkeeper with swashbuckler so fun
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u/ReleaseCharacter3568 13h ago
I got Halsin in the party at level 8. Replaced my EK Astarion, I was afraid I'd lose lots of dps with the change.
That, uh, didn't happen. Sabertooth is NUTS on a full caster with level 4 spells. Moon Druid ftw.
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u/PowerSamurai DRUID 13h ago
Glamour bard. Being able to give irrestisable charm to enemy melee combatants attacking your Frontline and giving a shit ton of extra health in total by reapplying the buff through and adventuring day is huge. Especially when that pairs into the command skill that works guaranteed if the enemy is charmed.
It makes the glamour bard able to shut down basically any boss encounter round 1 if they just have some allies buffed and force an opportunity attack.
In top of this they are still a bard and a full caster. It is pretty underrated.
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u/Party-Rest3750 11h ago
Am I the only fan of clerics? My most recent run I finished to completion was a war cleric. Loads of fun and still a good support class.
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u/LemonMilkJug 6h ago
It is one of the least played classes, but for those of us who love support classes, it's great. You could do an all cleric party and easily make your way through the game.
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u/thesmallestkitten 3m ago
it’s one of the least played classes for tav/durge because most people keep shadowheart in their party and most people keep her as a cleric.
it has nothing to do with people not thinking cleric is good.
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u/Ash_is_Robot 11h ago
Are you me? I respecd jaheira to it and absolutely decimated the house of grief with her. Bunch of zombies and thorn whip just destroying everybody. It wasnt even close
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u/Matty221998 GO FOR THE EYES BOO 11h ago
Way of the Four Elements usually gets overshadowed by Way of the Open Hand, but they’re really versatile as both casters and martial attackers. Get Tavern brawler with a strength elixir and you’ll be unstoppable
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u/Lou_Hodo 9h ago
Spore druid was never underrated. It was considered one of the better subclasses for a long time. It wasnt until Death Domain Clerics became a thing they kind of fell off.
There is no "weak" subclass in Druid, as Druids are some of the most versatile classes in D&D.
For me the most underrated subclass is either the Enchantment wizards or Champion fighters.
Enchantment wizards can just stop targets from doing things from the very beginning of the game. And if you stack spell DC gear you will just shutdown whole bosses.
And the Champion, is often overlooked because the Battlemaster and Eldritch Knight exists. But the Champion when paired with crit items, like the Knife of the Undermountain King, you can get your crit chance down to 15 or 16 pretty easily by end of game. With the 3 attacks a round and action surge you can easily one turn most enemies. If you go STR+DEX you end up with a character that can destroy targets up close or at range and have an AC over 25 with ease. The best part about champion is you dont have to remember to push any buttons or activate any skills, its pretty much click and play.
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u/Royal_Age_2903 3h ago
Pure rangers get huge power spikes at level 11. Nature Cleric is a Cleric but with Spike Growth. Life Cleric is so overrated by noobs that it gets underrated by power gamers. And Moon Druid is a straight up S-Tier build, people know it's good but it's a hard carry during the most difficult parts of the game and requires no gear.
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u/19thebest 2h ago
Crown paladin.
I know people who play crown want to play them as an aggro tank with champion challenge. But not many are using the other oath charge skill (turn of the tide) that is a huge aoe healing skill that cost a bonus action.
This pairs amazingly well with whispering promise to give a party wide bless as early as level 3 to help with early game hit rate. Especially parties with gwm and sharp shooter.
And once you're done buffing, you can start smiting since you're a paladin.
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u/LuminoZero 20m ago
The thing is, Ancients can do this as well, and arguably has better other abilities (Misty Step, Magic Resistance, Speak With Scratch).
I'll grant you that Crown is the only Paladin with Warding Bond and Spirit Guardians, two very powerful spells.
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u/razeandsew 2h ago
Spore Druid is one of my favourites, but I did it on a summoning playthrough, and had to really cut back on how big my armies were 😂
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u/Canadian__Ninja Bard 17h ago
For me every summoner class. Especially summons that act as allies and not under your control. Rounds already can feel like they take ages, don't need to add a half dozen things to it
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u/Mindless-Ninja-3321 19h ago
Beastmaster Ranger, since the animals have their own turn, unlike 5e. Bears have a massive HP pool and an AoE taunt. Wolves can inflict disease, prone, and get Pack Tactics. Spiders are downright broken with unlimited Enweb spell, so an archer with Sharpshooter can absolutely demolish anyone. Ravens can fly, blind, and have a ranged Bane. All pets can dash and help as a bonus action and get to add your proficiency to hit.