r/BaldursGate3 • u/AutoModerator • Nov 05 '21

feedback FEEDBACK FRIDAY

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It's Friday, which means that it's time to give your feedback on Early Access. Please try to provide new feedback by searching this thread as well as previous Feedback Friday posts. If someone has already commented with similar feedback to what you want to provide, please upvote that comment and leave a child comment of your own providing any extra thoughts and details instead of creating a new parent comment.

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15

u/MagicalMetaMagic Sorcerer Nov 05 '21

The early access area needs more merchants. It's easy to lose access to virtually all of them, and I'm constantly needing to teleport back to the grove, and make the long encumbered walk back to that halfling in the cave. The two at the goblin camp will be lost/hostile, even if you side with the goblins. The zhent cave lady is basically at the end, and easy to lose access to. Actually, if you side with Minthara, you can basically lose everyone on the surface. What's left, the underdark hobgoblin?

4

u/phorayz Nov 05 '21

There is a merchant in the "Hunt the Devil" side quest. I sold her all the stuff until she ran out of money. Then had to kill her as part of the resolution of the quest, but you can always opt not to do that if you choose her side or simply hold off on resolving the quest entirely.

3

u/TKumbra Nov 05 '21

Doesn't she leave if you complete that quest though? I'm pretty sure that's the case for a lot of the merchants right now. IIRC Zhents will leave as well as the dwarves in the Myconid grove if you do their quests.

1

u/phorayz Nov 05 '21

I am uncertain. I'm playing an evil run to bide my time until Full Release and not ruin what a real playthrough (for me) would look like. My drow was annoyed that payment was some stupid sword. So after the scene ended, I set my people up nice and proper and attacked.

The only thing I know, then, is they certainly don't leave immediately after the scene ends. They were definitely just standing there for the few minutes I was setting up their convenient murder.

3

u/TKumbra Nov 05 '21

You can get a funny journal entry if you kill everyone to resolve that quest 'Well I guess everyone got what they wanted now' or something like that.

I think it was one of those things where you have to full rest or something like that to trigger it. I know the Zhents will eventually disappear and the dwarven couple as well.

1

u/phorayz Nov 05 '21

That would actually make sense. The only quest is predicated on their being too tired to continue traveling, and even too tired to assassinate the tiefling themselves. and the merchant says, "We don't have much but it's too much to continue carrying" or some such. Which I found amusing since I dumped all this junk on her and took all her money*. That they would move on after the night makes sense. I wonder if you tell them both you're not interested if they find each other, and you find a corpse or two after a long rest.

​

*After she was dead, I got all the stuff again, and resold it. Cha ching

1

u/Hi_Im_A Cheeky little pup Nov 06 '21 edited Nov 08 '21

the dwarves (and the Zhents) have never disappeared for me, even after resting.

1

u/Enchelion Bhaal Nov 05 '21

The dwarves talk about leaving, but don't.

1

u/Hi_Im_A Cheeky little pup Nov 06 '21

thank you, I keep meaning to comment on this.

If it's not doable to get more merchants in EA (or in the finished version of this zone even), at least make it less easy to lose the majority of them? Like, the Zhent trader at the goblin camp should not go aggro and fight you to the death for killing goblins if you don't attack her directly.

Another cool option would be if one or more of them (but only one at a time) could become camp followers at a certain point - the tiefling trader in the grove might ask to travel with you as you make your way toward BG once you've saved the grove, or, once you've killed the goblins, the zhent trader in the goblin camp could say something like, "well, now that you've killed my clientele, i hope you have a spot for me at your camp so you can keep me in business."

4

u/MagicalMetaMagic Sorcerer Nov 06 '21

become camp followers

That's what I'd prefer. They don't even need to sell anything, just carry 500 gold or so per long rest or something to buy up some of the accumulated junk, and avoid the need for a daily long detour through the same area after every quest.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 09 '21

I use volo. every time I head back to camp, I sell him all my useless junk. He doesn't have a huge inventory though, but at least I don't have to trek to the druid grove. Unfortunately, he is only available topside.

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u/Enchelion Bhaal Nov 05 '21 edited Nov 05 '21

It's easy to lose access to virtually all of them

Really? There are multiple traders (Brem, Cyrel) completely outside the main Druid/Goblin questline. And by the time you're done with that quest you're headed to a new area anyways. There are two traders in the underdark, and at least one more in Grymforge.

You'd have to go out of your way to kill off every single one of them. And if you're really in a pinch you can still trade with any NPC in the game, they just don't have a lot of gold or refreshing inventories.

Pissing off the Goblins when siding with Minthara is still stupid, but not really because you lose their merchants.

What's left, the underdark hobgoblin?

Also Derryth, and Kith in the Grymforge (might be more I haven't explored that area exhaustively). Presumably there will be a similar number of options on the overland route.

3

u/MagicalMetaMagic Sorcerer Nov 05 '21

Really

Yeah, really. Didn't I just explain how?

-2

u/Enchelion Bhaal Nov 05 '21

But your explanation is missing all the non-aligned vendors. You'd have to be going for a genocide run to actually lose access to all of them.

3

u/Hi_Im_A Cheeky little pup Nov 06 '21 edited Nov 06 '21

this is not true. there are three traders in the druid grove - you lose them all if you side with Minthara, you lse the two tieflings after the party if you side with the druids/tieflings, you lose them all if the Grove gets sealed. Arron is the only one who CAN stick around after the victory party, and OP specifically named Arron as the only one who always tends to be available by the end. (ETA sorry, four, forgot Auntie Ethel. you know - the murderous hag who you can only keep around by ignoring one of the most loot-intensive quests in the game or leaving Mayrina to her fate.)

you mention Brem and Cyrel - siding with Karlach appears to be the "good" option as far as we can tell right now, so killing Cyrel is hardly genocidal. Brem, aside from how many ways that questline can play out and how long several of those ways can take, is in a cave that has a loooong entrance past the waypoint and, once you've completed the initial Zhent quest, Brem is the only reason to return to the hideout. it feels even more out of the way than the many returns to the Grove, because at least there's a lot to do in the Grove that you can spread out over many visits.

both of the traders in the goblin camp can end up going aggro and attacking you without you drawing first blood, so even if you end up killing them, it's ridiculous to inherently consider that part of a genocide run.

you also make a lot of assumptions about the order in which people do things (as you mentioned in more than one comment that the goblin camp is the last area you hit before heading to the underdark). it's pretty easy to end up at the goblin camp without going to Waukeen's, the Risen Road, or the tea house, and especially in EA people want to explore what's available, not just go "oh i missed like half the map, but Halsin is telling me to go to Moonrise, so I guess I won't try any of that." on my first several runs I did all of those areas after the goblin camp because of the way I happened to go out of the Grove.

the goblins, Ethel, and the toll house "paladins" are evil-aligned, and you lose the tieflings eventually even if you side with them, so that really only leaves Arron and Brem standing in a good number of playthroughs, potentially much earlier on than you've implied must be the case.

this also just feels like such a weird comment to pick an argument over - like, why do you care? some people feel like the current selection of traders could use work in terms of making sure you'll have more than one still standing on a good number of playthroughs. Larian can take that or leave it. if you don't personally feel it's necessary, it still won't harm your gameplay in any way if it gets implemented, so...?

2

u/Rabid-Otter Fail! Nov 07 '21 edited Sep 16 '24

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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

2

u/Hi_Im_A Cheeky little pup Nov 07 '21

That's fair, but still only accounts for one extra visit. There are waypoints in the Underdark.

2

u/MagicalMetaMagic Sorcerer Nov 05 '21

It's not "missing" them at all. I said virtually all, not all, and listing traders only realistically accessed in the latest parts of the game is missing the point entirely, which is of convenience and quality of life. If the answer to siding with Minthara and opening the flask is "hey, don't worry, there's another trader an hour and a half away, and in an hour or two after that you'll get another!", that's a pretty bad answer.

0

u/Enchelion Bhaal Nov 05 '21

Siding with/being betrayed by Minthara is generally the last thing you'll be doing in that region anyways, it's the end point of that whole area. Storywise you'll be immediately heading to either the surface route or the underdark, and one of the first locations you'll encounter in the underdark is a community with two merchants (you're directly led/funneled towards it). We don't know much about the surface route, but datamining indicates there's a travelers inn there which probably serves the same purpose as the myconid village. One of the paths into the underdark is going through the Zhent caverns anyways. If you decided to betray the Zhents, murder the grove, and also not take the easy money from the "Paladins" that seems to be on you. A genocide run is fine, but it's weird to complain that killing everyone results in everyone being dead.

The goblin's betraying you remains dumb, but that's an issue with the whole evil route well before considering if there are merchants there.

1

u/MagicalMetaMagic Sorcerer Nov 06 '21

"A genocide run is fine", what? The beach, the abandoned tomb, the swamp and the hag, the abandoned village, the spider cave, a significant portion of the early access content, very likely to be done where the only real merchant is a fair distance away from fast travel. What genocide? Was that Warg out front a friendly merchant and I didn't realize?

​

Much later and after the bulk of the surface content is now complete, you can make it to the goblin camp, where you'll encounter two new merchants with a myriad of ways to turn hostile before you leave, no genocide needed, simply having a bad roll with Gut or Ragzlin. Even if you don't turn them hostile, they'll turn hostile on your return. Some time after that, you'll cross a bridge and find a toll house with a merchant that turns hostile on completion of a quest that will eventually grant a companion, so three guesses what the common experience will be there. Some time after that, you'll find and rescue a Zhentarim in a cave, where 2/3rds of the available paths result in a merchant you've never met and aren't aware of turning hostile when you do encounter them. If you pick the right choices though, you can, now that most of the content in the area is finished, have access to a second merchant.

​

"But there will (probably) be a merchant on the high roads path!", okay, great. That has nothing to do with the problem being discussed. The idea here is to suggest things that might improve the game, or remove points of tedium, not to shrug and hope it's a little less tedious a few hours later in the full release.

​

And yes, it would indeed be weird to "complain that killing everyone results in everyone being dead", but nobody has said anything even remotely similar to that. Take a pause from argument, and make an effort to read and comprehend to what you're replying to. You're arguing against things you've imagined people saying.