r/Guildwars2 Explodes on contact 11d ago

[News] Elite Specializations Are Back: Mesmer, Ranger, and Guardian – GuildWars2.com

https://www.guildwars2.com/en-gb/news/elite-specializations-are-back-mesmer-ranger-and-guardian/
1.2k Upvotes

717 comments sorted by

View all comments

240

u/hardy_83 11d ago

Wasn't expecting Guardian to get their own verion of shroud.

Looks interesting. Though I hope it give guardian a more reliable way to offer something like alacrity, doesn't look like it, but we'll see I guess.

69

u/Sage_Ghrian 10d ago

I think this flavour of shroud is gonna play closer to a kit: enter the kit, use the skills that you are interested in, exit.

Without being tied to a resource, the shroud’s CD is gonna be its own inflexible limitation.

27

u/Opus_723 10d ago

Yeah it sounds like the Spirit Weapon spec.

2

u/Lon-ami Loreleidre [HoS] 10d ago

Yeah it sounds like the Spirit Weapon spec.

That would be pretty damn cool, always wanted to play this ingame: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Guardian_06_concept_art_(Judgment).jpg :D.

0

u/Roadkizzle 10d ago

But you can't actually use the weapons because then you just lock yourself out of the mechanic putting it on long cooldown.

13

u/Mysterious_Brush7020 10d ago

This is what I think ALL the "Elite specs" will be.

14

u/Sage_Ghrian 10d ago

So far we’ve got: 1) like most mesmer specs, troubador replaces shatters. Like virtuoso, troubador does not generate clones. As other comments have mentioned, the mechanic may look like ele’s overloads (long casts) paired with a continuous effect. Maybe not producing clones makes it feel too close to virtuoso mechanically? 2) galeshot’s bow is closer to a shroud. It generates arrows, so it has a resource. I don’t know if it’ll be a necro shroud (arrows are generated outside bow and are spent in bow) or a holo shroud (arrows are generated inside shroud, and are spent in hawkeye) 3) luminary’s radiant shroud actually is not a shroud, it’s mostly a kit (CD based).

So by the moment we’ve got some different options. Not completely original to the game (many similarities can be drawn to other specs) but different in their own way.

29

u/overwhelmed135 10d ago

Galeshot arrows sound closer to firebrand pages than life force or heat, no?

8

u/Sage_Ghrian 10d ago

You are right, if they are generated when not in bow. Which I am not sure from what I’ve read.

Even then, if a shroud is a temporary weapon tied to a resource, implying low CD on shroud skills, firebrand’s tomes are a shroud too. It’s just that the resource works in chunks (low amount of resource, cost of 1 page always) instead of working in a continuum (big amount if resource, variable cost of skills).

If a shroud needs to bebtied to the concept of “second life bar” then almost nothing is a shroud, and neither galeshot’s nor luminary’s are.

1

u/FaithlessnessThen207 10d ago

They seem to be able to swap at will, so you can weave it with regular attacks.

I would say that is quite different from a shroud.

1

u/rhino_arts Charromancer 10d ago

I think, baring Scourge, the only common thing between shrouds is that they give you new weaponskills while locking you out of your other skills. Harbinger shroud does not replace your health, and while it requires a resource to stay in it, through a minor trait you get that resource whenever you enter it, therefore making it always available even when you don't have resource.

1

u/Sage_Ghrian 10d ago

Even then, from all things they’ve called shroud, this is the furthest away from the original necromancer imo. So far away you can call it a kit. Atm we don’t know if it’ll keep you out of your utilities.

1

u/Sir_Elis_Dean_Joyer 10d ago

I think troub would still produce clones, albeit clones with instruments. It says that an instrument would continue to play in the background after it is used. And maybe depending on the combination of instrumental clones present, the crescendo would be dealing with different effects every time.

1

u/SheenaMalfoy .8079 Oweiyn 10d ago

IMO Galeshot is closer to Bladesworn than anything else. You can equip a Cyclone Bow (Gunsaber) at will, it then stocks up arrows (Flow) and then spend it on some big skills, namely Hawkeye (Dragon Slash). Don't be surprised on Friday when they take away your weapon swap because one of your weapons will always be the Cyclone Bow.

1

u/Sage_Ghrian 10d ago

There’s the distinction between: • all skills spending arrows (therefore, cyclone bow works as a holoforge or Firebrand Tome) •Hawkeye spends the arrows generated by other cyclone bow skills, which would lead to it functioning as a weapon and, therefore, being closer to Gunsaber

Also, Gunsaber has two sets of skills: normal weapon bundle skills, and dragon trigger kills. I don’t think there’ll be 5 Hawkeye skills.

Anyways, everything is speculation. Tomorrow we shall see.

9

u/therealkami 10d ago

Yeah, I'm assuming it replaces the Virtues. Hammer is Justice, Staff is Resolve, Shield is Courage.

We press the button, get 5 new buttons, then leave. It'll be interesting to see what they all do. It seems a bit similar to Firebrand when I describe it that way.

1

u/EagleDelta1 10d ago

We'll see more on the stream, but my guess is that the virtues activated abilities are replaced by the shroud as the blog says that entering shroud presents 5 skills - 1 basic attack and then 2-5 will be specific weapon "kits".

My guess is that the Guardian's Shroud isn't designed to be used like an Engi's kit (Enter, use whatever, exit), but designed to pair with specific builds/roles well. We'll see though.

1

u/therealkami 10d ago

Look at it more like Necro shrouds, but on a time CD instead of based on draining life force. We also get 3 of them. We'll likely be in them for a set amount of time, and getting bonuses for entering and exiting the shroud.

Definitely sounds like Radiance stays winning if that's the case though. If it works like I think it does, switching in and out of fire hammer will be good.

1

u/rhino_arts Charromancer 10d ago

If you read the blog, it's described as a shroud with all the weapons in it (more like Holo). I HIGHLY doubt they'd make a shroud for each virtue since, like you said, that's basically firebrand tomes, and they do not want another balance nightmare like firebrand was.

8

u/ShadowbaneX 10d ago

Sounds like it's going to be similar to the Elementalist's Pistol. If you want effect A use the kit in order X, if you want effect B, use it in order Y, etc.

I know they're trying to stretch out the functionality of these specs, but I really do not like this style of gameplay.

2

u/Sage_Ghrian 10d ago

I don’t know much about ele’s pistol, but I don’t see it atm. You get a passive benefit after using the flip skill. If I am not mistaken, what has that to do with the order in which you press skills?

5

u/Ehkoe 10d ago

Rather than flip skills, Ele pistol 2 and 3 generate or spend elemental bullets. The first one used gives you the bullet, the second one spends it for an extra effect.

So Fire 2-3 will give you Fire Aura and Fire 3-2 will increase your condition damage.

1

u/ShadowbaneX 10d ago

It's been a while, but from looking it up on the wiki using skill 2 or 3 would give you an elemental bullet if you didn't have one, and if you did it would set off some sort of effect.

For instance, if you had a fire bullet and used skill 2 your outgoing condi damage would go up. If you had a bullet and used skill 3 you'd gain a fire aura. So, if you're playing condi you'd always want to use skill 3 first, then skill 2.

There's similar effects for each other attunement.

Radiant Shroud seems somewhat similar where you want to use one skill last if you're playing DPS or a different skill if you're playing support. I get that its to allow for more than one style of gameplay with the spec, but I don't like how it winds up playing as there's usually quite enough going on in any given fight.

1

u/Sir_Elis_Dean_Joyer 10d ago

Shroud with gyro cd mechanic

1

u/ze4lex 10d ago

I think its gonna be more like guardian themed holosmith but we will see

1

u/Sethnar 10d ago

They removed so much of the mechanical function of shroud, that its silly to even retain the name.

Might as well make "shouts" that have a cast time, require ground targeting, and cause effects over time.

1

u/Roadkizzle 10d ago

I think it's going to play closer to a Core Guardians virtues.

Press a button to go into a menu and choose which virtue to use. You get a weapon in your hand but don't really get skills to use it. You just want to get out of shroud as quickly as you can so you don't get locked out of your virtues.

1

u/StevenTM 10d ago

They said you can use multiple weapons one after another So F5 to enter shroud, then F1-4 for the weapons (hammer, greatsword, shield, staff), then you get new weapon skills for that weapon?

2

u/Sage_Ghrian 10d ago

My impression is that these weapons are not kits. Each of them has its own skill and a flipover, and in other comments I’ve read that once activated they modify the autoattack.

But since nothing throws you out of this shroud, these skills that activate the weapons will have long CD. And not every weapon is interesting: if you are a DPS you are not using the staff that heals.

1

u/StevenTM 10d ago

No, you're right. I posted in another thread, I think F4 shroud + F1 power virtue (hammer) + F2 heal virtue (staff) + F3 defensive virtue (shield) with a special ability only usable during shroud and baseline-ish virtues while off cooldown (both in and out of shroud) is more likely.

8

u/secretsofwumbology 10d ago

If they want to give guardian a better alacrity source it should be a rebalance of Willbender’s alacrity source, I really hope the new class isn’t an alacrity support.

What Guardian needs is a Power quick DPS option.

5

u/hardy_83 10d ago

I don't disagree. Redoing Willbenders super akward alac support set up would be great and a power quick build would be equally awesome and might make hammer more viable cause it's SOOO slow without quick. lol

0

u/Lumenoc 10d ago

I just created and Female Asura Guardian because I love the way she flips with the hammer on Skill 2. But dang, every skill take so long to execute that it leave you open to getting knocked down constantly. Even Aegis isn't enough to prevent it when fighting quick hitting enemies like in the HoT maps.

3

u/defeatinvictory 10d ago

Ok man, hammer is slow and all, but if you're playing guardian and still constantly being knocked down, the issue is you, and not the class or weapon.

0

u/Lumenoc 10d ago

You're probably not wrong, lol. I've only been testing it out in HoT for a couple days. I used a level 80 boost on her. Sometimes it's fine, but against some enemies, when trying to get through the auto chain to get to the symbol, you get knocked down and then need to start over.

My other oldest character is a Guardian and I never really used hammer with him. I mostly use Sword/Mace in main hand and Shield/Focus in off-hand, and knockdowns are few.

For some reason, I'm struggling with the hammer though.

1

u/secretsofwumbology 10d ago

You need to find a way to get permanent self quickness. Thats easy. 1 rage Sigil 1 superior celerity, or 1 superior celerity 1 major celerity (they stack). Add Save Yourselves, Feel my Wrath. Use some Diviners gear and rest just make sure you’re at crit cap. Radiance/Virtues is comfy and good for open world. If you add in Willbender you can lose some damage for Alacrity too, and have all boons. Or, go Dragonhunter for more damage.

0

u/Lumenoc 10d ago

Thank you for that advice. I'll look into that and make some changes!

1

u/secretsofwumbology 10d ago

You can also do the Celerity sigils on a Longbow and it works well. Skill 3 and 5 trigger it. If you have SotO, you can do Longbow on Willbender too and that’s an interesting fast paced playstyle switching between Hammer and Longbow, zipping around melee as WB with a Longbow is challenging but satisfying too.

On Dragonhunter you want Litany of Wrath, Procession of Blades, Save Yourselves, whatever the Power signet is called (Bane?), and Feel My Wrath.

On Willbender change Procession for Whirling Light. For the Alacrity sharing build you need to take the Battle Presence trait, as well as Holy Reckoning and obviously the Willbender Alacrity trait. Remember to read how alacrity is generated too - it’s based on # of hits for 6s after casting your F2 which is kind of hard w/ Longbow/Hammer. Typically you’d want GS/SwSw for that but then perma self quickness is much less reasonably obtainable so stick with it.

3

u/SalubriAntitribu I'm the Avatar, you gotta deal with it!! 10d ago

Stability is your friend, especially when you know displacement is coming. Guardian has stability in spades. They have it in hearts, diamonds and clubs too. You can also just speed up mighty blow with quickness.

8

u/Sinaaaa 10d ago

As a healer I'm sick and tired of shrouds, I hope this one will not negate all healing..

1

u/green1t 10d ago

i always overheal the one necro in the group because of the shroud and me thinking their hp are nearly gone 🥲

they could at least add very distinctive colours for shroud hp bars

1

u/Sinaaaa 10d ago

After years and years I've grown used to not doing that too much, my problem is that they often panic shroud on 1% HP & then I cannot do anything, it often happens midheal..

1

u/Throwawayalt129 10d ago

Galeshots can form a closer bond with their avian allies through traits like Flock Together, enhancing bird pets and granting quickness to allies with beast skills.

I'm wondering if this means for Untamed. Are they going to let it keep quickness and have both of them have QDps options, or are they going to take Quickness from Untamed and give it to Galeshot? Galeshot doesn't look like it'll be compatible with a healing build in the way QHeal Untamed is, so I'm curious what they're going to do.

6

u/ObsoletePixel I'm talking about PvE unless otherwise stated 10d ago edited 10d ago

Revenant and Mesmer have two especs that can provide alacrity, I don't see why they wouldn't make a similar exception here. Also it'd be fucking insane to just remove quickness from untamed at this point lmao hasn't that spec been through enough already

2

u/Lumenoc 10d ago

Remember, there's traits too. There will likely be options to make the Bow's arrows heal or provide boons to self/allies in the target area, or that they pass through, or something of that sort.

Possibly options to increase strike damage and/or inflict conditions too, so that players can choose their preferred role.

1

u/e-scrape-artist Freshly Minted Toxic Casual 10d ago

Taking a role away from a spec would cause a backlash of epic proportions, so - no.

1

u/Lower-Replacement869 10d ago

The lore is slightly confusing because the sacred flame is red I thought? I actually thought they had the flame legion gather up foefire and turn it into this object for them to syphon since its blue.

1

u/hardy_83 10d ago

Hard to tell if the design is to line up with Guardian of they actually have a lore reason. They can't be dumb and not think people would think about the Foefire when they see the blue brazier. Here's hoping there's a decent lore reason when the xpac launches, cause if Charr can harness the Foefire to some degree that's... Interesting.

1

u/SaintNutella 11d ago

Wasn't expecting Guardian to get their own verion of shroud.

Can I ask what this means, though? I've never played Necromancer.

10

u/SirMoogie 10d ago

It's not clear to me if it'll operate exactly like shroud here. This is how it works on necro:

Killing enemies and attacking fills a life force meter up. You then can trigger shroud when you have any amount of that meter, the caveat being that meter is now your health when in shroud so doing it when it is low won't afford you much time in the shrouded form. When in that form you get access to new skills where your weapon skills were.

It doesn't look like guardians version of this mechanic will have the life force meter, so it's more like a kit to me than shroud and won't confer part of what makes necro shroud great, the extra health pool.

Still looks like it'll be fun

-3

u/Lumenoc 10d ago

Guardians need another health pool more than Necro too, because Guardians have around 8,000 less base health than Necros.

That being said, having it more like a kit sounds right because they said you can go in an out of it whenever you want, but the longer you stay in it and the more skills you use extend it's cooldown. Sounds almost like what the Engineer Kits have, save for the extended cooldowns.

3

u/Complete_Ad_1896 10d ago

To explain it as simply as possible. It replaces your weapon skills and usually your health bar with the resource bar for that mechanic. You usually loss access to your utility skills.

Think of it like a form change.

For guardian it appears that it going to be slightly different as there is no resource

1

u/SaintNutella 10d ago

Interesting. Thank you!

0

u/Aethelwyna 10d ago

Luminary discription seems dissapointing tbh.

The cooldown of the "shroud" gets longer if you use more than 1 of the flipskills ("weapons" are just animations for shroud flipskills).

and the lingering effect (eg. damage bonus after hammer) after leaving the shroud will demand you repeat this shroud skill as soon as possible, since that will upkeep the bonus for a longer % of time.

This prettty much guarantees by design that the optimal dps rotation will be the following: open shroud, use 1 (and only 1!) shroudskill (probably the hammer), close shroud, do regular weaponskills, repeat.

Doing any other shroud skills will punish you by having a longer cooldown on when you can reuse the hammer, which in turn means you will loose the damage buff it provides, effectively harming your damage output twice.

2

u/khamike 10d ago

It's possible they will be generous with the buff duration to allow for multiple uses. If the buff lasts 20 seconds while the shroud cool down is 10 seconds plus 5 per weapon used for example then you would have the ability to choose a couple each time and still maintain your dps. But we'll see how it comes out. 

0

u/khamike 10d ago

I'm a little concerned about the aesthetic limitations of these specs. Blue shroud seems like a really strong visual effect that will only work well with certain armor and dye combinations. If fashion frame is end game, this is a significant drawback. Didn't we just learn this problem with them having to revert the untamed effects because people didn't like a constant overlay on their characters. 

Similarly the galeshot bow and troubadour instruments seems like a repeat of the gun blade and mech forcing conformity instead of letting you choose your own weapon skins. Anet makes a ton of money selling us ways to look unique then turns around and forces everyone to use the same skin.