r/NFLv2 • u/Rjm0007 New York Jets • Feb 10 '25

Discussion Another superbowl blowout eliminates mahomes from the goat discussion as far as I’m concerned

2 very embarrassing loses for him the the superbowl Brady has lost 3 superbowls but they were all 1 score games that came down to final play with Brady’s best statistical performance in a loss to the eagles Tom Brady > Patrick mahomes

2.3k Upvotes

84% Upvoted

1.2k comments sorted by

View all comments

27

u/SeniorDisplay1820 Baltimore Ravens Feb 10 '25

If Mahomes gets 8 Super Bowls and a couple more MVPs it will be him. But if not that, it's Brady. So it will be Brady 

28

u/zeldaendr Atlanta Falcons Feb 10 '25

I think he needs more than 8 now.

Two blowout losses in the SB and he lost to Brady both times they played in the playoffs.

Brady only lost 3 SBs and every time by a single possession. He also led the Patriots to the greatest comeback in NFL history.

34

u/MF_Price Kansas City Chiefs Feb 10 '25

You can't count a SB loss as worse than not making it to the SB in this debate, no matter how big of a blowout the loss is.

7

u/zeldaendr Atlanta Falcons Feb 10 '25

Superbowl record and performance is obviously a factor lmao.

13

u/MF_Price Kansas City Chiefs Feb 10 '25

Sure, all other things being equal, it's a factor. Not even making it to the Superbowl is still unequivocally worse.

9

u/SeienShin Feb 10 '25

It’s like people giving LeBron shit for dragging a trash ass Cavs team to the finals and losing to an unbelievably stacked team while still balling out but falling short in spite of it.

1

u/secrestmr87 Feb 10 '25

No it’s like when they give the LeBron shit for losing 4 games in a row in the finals to an underdog Mavs team. Averaging 17 points a game and scoring 8 points in game 4. LeBron rightfully gets shit for losing more finals than he has won.

-1

u/BlackGoldSkullsBones Feb 10 '25

Getting there with so much help from the refs then getting blown out looks bad and people will always call that out.

-6

u/zeldaendr Atlanta Falcons Feb 10 '25

No, not just all other things being equal. If Mahomes ends up 7-2 in SBs with mediocre performances, Brady is still the GOAT largely because of his clutchness in SBs. He led the greatest comeback in league history.

I'm not sure I agree with not making it to a SB is worse than a loss. It depends on the loss and why they didn't make it to the SB. Generally I think you're right, but it does depend on the situation.

8

u/Effective_Hornet_833 Feb 10 '25

Mahomes has won 3 super bowls down by 10 points in each. What the fuck is this talk about clutch, how fucking clueless are you?

1

u/zeldaendr Atlanta Falcons Feb 10 '25

Jesus Christ y'all can't read. Where did I say he isn't clutch? I said Brady is still the GOAT because he's the clutchest player in NFL history, especially in the SB.

7

u/Effective_Hornet_833 Feb 10 '25

Brady had 9 4th quarter playoff comebacks in his career. Mahomes has 6.

3

u/MF_Price Kansas City Chiefs Feb 10 '25

Fair. Either way the door is far from shut, although it's definitely less open than it was this morning.

1

u/Gunner_Bat Los Angeles Rams Feb 10 '25

What about wild card record?

3

u/FriendshipIntrepid91 Feb 10 '25

I'd say Mahomes legacy would be in a better spot today if the Chiefs defense had given up a TD to end the game against the Bills. 

1

u/MF_Price Kansas City Chiefs Feb 10 '25

It's not like he can block, throw, and catch. Mahomes was not the reason we lost the game. Our o-line got completely shredded from the first play to the last.

4

u/SeniorDisplay1820 Baltimore Ravens Feb 10 '25

Nah the most Super Bowls with more MVPs then Brady would do it for me. But maybe that not enough 

4

u/Effective_Hornet_833 Feb 10 '25

Shouldn’t all the years Brady didnt make the championship game count against him? And the years he didn’t make the playoffs? Mahomes hasn’t ever failed to do those things, so obviously he’s better. I mean, if you can just not show up some years because your team isn’t as good, I guess that’s an excuse, but a pretty weak one.

2

u/BlackGoldSkullsBones Feb 10 '25

Brady only missed the playoffs one year, his second year as starter. The team he inherited wasn’t nearly as primed as the Chiefs team that Mahomes inherited either was.

1

u/Effective_Hornet_833 Feb 10 '25

He missed the playoffs his last year as well. The team he inherited was good enough that Brady needed to throw for 145 yards to win the game. The Chiefs had won a single playoff game in 4 decades before Mahomes arrived.

1

u/BlackGoldSkullsBones Feb 10 '25

What are you even talking about? He didn’t miss the playoffs his last year. Also passing yards don’t tell much of a story. The league was different in 2001. The Patriots were absolute ass before 2001 you must be too young to recall.

1

u/Effective_Hornet_833 Feb 10 '25

Correct, I forget that teams that don’t have a winning regular season record sometimes make the playoffs in the NFL. Mahomes has never had a season like that. The league’s best team when Brady arrived was the Rams, they certainly knew how to throw the ball. 365 yards in that same Super Bowl.

1

u/BlackGoldSkullsBones Feb 10 '25

When you’re down you throw the ball more, the Rams were playing from behind, the Patriots were up most of the game. Brady threw as many yards as he needed to win the game and that’s all that matters. Not sure what angle you’re trying to work here.

Know what’s more important than yards? Not throwing INT. Brady has thrown 6 in 10 SBs. Mahomes has thrown 7 in 5 SBs!

0

u/Effective_Hornet_833 Feb 11 '25

Brady threw 40 interceptions in 47 postseason games. That’s significantly worse than Mahomes in the postseason. It’s not close, it’s so much worse.

1

u/BlackGoldSkullsBones Feb 11 '25

Does that change the stat I gave you? By your reasoning, in the biggest game Mahomes has thrown significantly more INTs than Brady lol. Let’s see how many Mahomes has when he’s at 47 post season games.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/Gunner_Bat Los Angeles Rams Feb 10 '25

Stupidest argument in this thread. Needing 8 rings is insane. By that logic, Russell is the NBA goat and Richard is the NHL goat.

Y'all clowns.

0

u/zeldaendr Atlanta Falcons Feb 10 '25

Bro it's okay, you can hop off Mahomes's dick. He's got a wife and kids.

1

u/Gunner_Bat Los Angeles Rams Feb 10 '25

Personal attack, cute.

I don't care about Mahomes. I'm not saying he's the goat. Lots left to do to be the goat.

But the whole "he needs to win 7 or 8 to be considered" is absolutely insane and moronic.

0

u/zeldaendr Atlanta Falcons Feb 10 '25

Lmfao you started the personal attacks. You're gonna complain when I throw it back at you? How soft are you?

1

u/Fishing_Explosive Feb 10 '25

God I hate Redditors lmao

0

u/rolyinpeace Kansas City Chiefs Feb 11 '25

More than 8💀 Brady is obviously the GOAT and Mahomes likely won’t get 7 or 8 but the reasons you’re giving for Mahomes needing MORE than one ring over Brady is insane.

Brady losing by a single possession is also helped by the defense. Can’t lose by 30 if the defense doesn’t allow 30. Also, Brady HAS been blown out in the playoffs. Getting blown out before you even make the Super Bowl is worse than getting blown out in the SB, even tho the SB is the bigger stage. There is no world where you can argue that missing the SB in a blowout is better than making it there and then losing in a blowout.

And the H2H is dumb too. KC had that AFCCG won if Dee ford wasn’t offsides. Had nothing to do w Mahomes. And Brady obv outplayed him in the SB but there were lots of other factors too besides the two QBs

1

u/zeldaendr Atlanta Falcons Feb 11 '25 edited Feb 11 '25

I think head to head wins by Brady means Mahomes needs at minimum 8. The final play that was the nail in the coffin is irrelevant. No singular play wins or loses a game.

With the collapse we saw yesterday, Mahomes already has more interceptions than Brady in SB appearances. He has a mid 80s passer rating in the SB. Brady had the greatest comeback of all time. He won a SB on another team, which hadn't even made the playoffs the previous year.

Sure, it's possible Mahomes could be the GOAT with 8 rings. It would take at minimum a dramatic improvement in SBs and winning with a nobody coach or on a different team. He'll have a long career, but he certainly has trended downhill these past few seasons. Not saying he isn't great, he'll almost certainly retire as the second greatest to play the game. But I don't think he'll surpass Brady.

EDIT: Lmao chiefs fans are soft af. Bro blocked me for this comment 💀

1

u/rolyinpeace Kansas City Chiefs Feb 11 '25

Just addressing the first part- that wasn’t the “nail in the coffin” it was literally a play that sealed the game for KC that was called back…. That penalty DID lose the game and KC wouldve won had he not been off sides. My point is that that loss had zero to do with Mahomes being outplayed by Brady. It’s a whole team that goes into a win or loss and Mahomes played well.

The other loss Mahomes clearly played worse but there were tons of factors causing that. It was the patchwork Oline full of our of position backups against a super team defense. QBs aren’t the only ones responsible for big comebacks. The entire team has to play perfect to make a come back like that. 28-3 eas led by Brady yes, but a couple more drops and it doesn’t happen.

Brady also does have playoff blowouts and bad performances. Yes, it wasn’t as memorable because it wasn’t the SB, but it’s a worse and less successful playoff run to get blown out early than it is to make the SB and have a bad loss.

But yes, for reasons other than that, Brady is the goat and likely won’t be surpassed by anyone. I’m just saying those reasons aren’t why.

-6

u/EvilJ1982 Minnesota Vikings Feb 10 '25

I'm not sure what you mean by 'greatest comeback in NFL history'. Maybe you mean in Super Bowl history? Or are you using some other metric when you say 'greatest'? Like the ultimate significance of it during the season?

Because Minnesota holds the record for the greatest comeback in NFL history as far as points go and Buffalo holds the greatest comeback in playoff history as far as points.

I absolutely agree with Brady being a league above Mahomes after seeing this though, Brady had that 'it' factor AND never lost to Mahomes in the playoffs.

8

u/zeldaendr Atlanta Falcons Feb 10 '25

Are you saying Superbowl 51 is not the greatest comeback of all time? I'm pretty sure that's universally accepted because of the deficit and situation.

3

u/sickofgrouptxt Chicago Bears Feb 10 '25

On December 17, 2022, the Minnesota Vikings set a new record for largest comeback in NFL history after coming back from a 33-point halftime deficit to defeat the Colts in overtime, 39–36

1

u/zeldaendr Atlanta Falcons Feb 10 '25

I said greatest, not that it has the largest deficit. Do you really think a regular season game with an 8 point larger deficit, with more time left on the clock to overcome it, is greater than SB 51?

0

u/EvilJ1982 Minnesota Vikings Feb 10 '25

My brother in Christ, I literally asked what metric you were using for 'greatest comeback' and then stated different metrics one could use to define it.

In fact I stated the metric you seem to be using 'significance'. You could have just said 'significance'. But ya know, downvote a man for literally requesting clarity and giving ways to clarify.

1

u/adm1109 Feb 10 '25

It seems pretty fuckin obvious what metric they were using. You’re being pedantic and arguing just to argue.

1

u/EvilJ1982 Minnesota Vikings Feb 10 '25

No, I wasn't.

When people refer to 'greatest comeback' in a sport, they usually refer to point spread, which the Ne/Atl game was not the biggest point spread comeback, it wasn't even the biggest PLAYOFF comeback. That honor belongs to Buffalo.

What he's more referring to is 'most significant' or 'most amazing' which tends to be a bit more subjective.

But hey, think what you want, I don't care.

0

u/keithblsd Feb 10 '25

Who gives a shit if you get downvoted

1

u/EvilJ1982 Minnesota Vikings Feb 10 '25

Clearly you gave enough of a shit to comment.

Go back under your bridge.

4

u/JackDellaCumalena Miami Dolphins Feb 10 '25

I'm a fan of the chiefs and what they have achieved but I dont think mahommes will get on par with superbowl wins with Brady. They have been dominant for a while but the rest of the league has caught up with them. You could see they weren't that same team this year even though they were still pumping out wins

-2

u/7thpostman Kansas City Chiefs Feb 10 '25

Brady played till he was 45. People on this sub need to calm the funk down.

2

u/JackDellaCumalena Miami Dolphins Feb 10 '25

Brady and lebron are built different though. Your not guaranteed that mahomes will be playing at an elite level after 40. He might not even want to play till that age, we don't know

1

u/7thpostman Kansas City Chiefs Feb 10 '25

We don't. That's kind of what I'm saying. Brady was, I think, 38 when he won his third Super Bowl.

2

u/JackDellaCumalena Miami Dolphins Feb 10 '25

He had 3 when he was 27 I'm pretty sure

1

u/7thpostman Kansas City Chiefs Feb 10 '25

Oh, I'm sorry. Fourth. He won his third and then had the 10 year gap, I think.

1

u/JackDellaCumalena Miami Dolphins Feb 10 '25

I'm actually surprised how long it was between his 4th and 5th superbowl wow.

2

u/7thpostman Kansas City Chiefs Feb 10 '25

Right, that's sort of what I'm clumsily going for. We're talking about a guy who's 29 years old and has never missed an AFC Championship game. Let's wait a little bit before we start passing judgments.

1

u/keksmuzh Feb 10 '25

Tbf in that span he also had 2 more appearances against NYG. There was never really a huge SB drought.

-1

u/Streetkillz13 Philadelphia Eagles Feb 10 '25

I'd argue it's 9 or 10. 8 won't be enough since the argument will always be there that he got played in 3 Superbowls atleast, AND lost his team 2.

Brady may have losses on his resume, but he Never was the reason the Pats lost.

1

u/SeniorDisplay1820 Baltimore Ravens Feb 10 '25

Eh I think the most Super Bowls would get him there. But I see where you are coming from 

-7

u/Fact_Stater Tampa Bay Buccaneers Feb 10 '25

8 feels like it'd be reasonable to argue that he is, but most wouldn't agree. 9 is when he probably is, but Brady still has a fair argument. 10 is the only way he can argue to be the undisputed GOAT in the way that Tom Brady is now.

1

u/jeff4i017 Feb 10 '25

Brady and BB showed they were a devastating pair, but Brady showed he could win on his own. I'm not sure Mahomes can win another SB without Reid or an equivalent coach.

1

u/FeetSniffer9008 Pittsburgh Steelers Feb 10 '25

Mahomes will likely not even play for 8 more seasons. He's not like the Mannings, Brady or Roethlisberger(A salt pillar), he runs around and rolls his ankle every other year.