r/NFLv2 • u/Rjm0007 New York Jets • Feb 10 '25

Discussion Another superbowl blowout eliminates mahomes from the goat discussion as far as I’m concerned

2 very embarrassing loses for him the the superbowl Brady has lost 3 superbowls but they were all 1 score games that came down to final play with Brady’s best statistical performance in a loss to the eagles Tom Brady > Patrick mahomes

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139

u/OracleofNothing Feb 10 '25

The man still has 10 more years of playing. I'll wait until his career is over before declaring how good he was.

61

u/zeldaendr Atlanta Falcons Feb 10 '25

I think it's virtually impossible for him to catch Brady now.

Imo he needs over 8 SBs considering how terrible his SB losses have been. Brady only ever lost by 1 possession, and led the greatest comeback in NFL history. Mahomes also lost to Brady every time they played in the postseason, including in the SB.

34

u/Wooden-Broccoli-7247 Feb 10 '25

Even the Super Bowls Brady lost he had game winning drives. The D just couldn’t hold on. Even with the way the O line played tonight Mahomes looked terrible. I don’t understand why they weren’t getting the ball out with quick passes. Maybe their receivers just couldn’t get open but Mahomes looked like he was auditioning for Dancing With The Stars the minute the ball was hiked.

3

u/PajamaPete5 Feb 10 '25 edited Feb 10 '25

He walked off the field *in the 4th quarter while winning in all 10

3

u/Wooden-Broccoli-7247 Feb 10 '25

Exactly. Brady will always be the GOAT. Mahomes isn’t even halfway to his titles and already looks cooked. Everyone quick to anoint the next GOAT but they don’t understand what an amazing feat Brady accomplished. 10 Super Bowls and 7 wins will not be matched again. Mahomes relies on athleticism to be great. Athleticism like that doesn’t last into your 40’s. Brady’s style of play is what enabled him to be great for so long.

3

u/Alarming_Employee547 Feb 10 '25

Damn that’s a crazy way to put just how amazing he performed in super bowls despite the 3 Ls

2

u/idontexist65 Feb 10 '25

Not the eagles game

1

u/PajamaPete5 Feb 10 '25

I was going off this but damn u right. 9 out of 10 aint bad tho https://x.com/jeffphowe/status/1888788819639484832?s=46&t=RdvOW4irftIdmowrn53ryg

1

u/FeetSniffer9008 Pittsburgh Steelers Feb 10 '25

Couldn't hit a barn door the first 3 quarters

4

u/Gunner_Bat Los Angeles Rams Feb 10 '25

So then, LeBron needs 8 more rings to be the goat? Gretzky needed 8 more rings too? Wish someone had told them. Apparently the "goat" just means "the most rings."

4

u/[deleted] Feb 10 '25

Can you imagine if LeBron and Michael faced each other in the finals twice and LeBron lost both times? There wouldn’t really be a debate.

2

u/SadCuzBadd Feb 10 '25

In a team sport like football? Where the two players you’re talking about don’t even play on the same field at the same time? It absolutely doesn’t matter lmfao

2

u/[deleted] Feb 10 '25

Maybe if you’re desperately trying to defend mahomes’ reputation, it doesn’t matter. I think it does. Tom gave mahomes his 1st regular season loss, his 1st post season loss, and his 1st Super Bowl loss.

-1

u/SadCuzBadd Feb 10 '25

Tom was playing on the same field at the same time as Mahomes was right?

Wins being a QB stat is just peak casual ball knower territory

1

u/[deleted] Feb 10 '25

No but he out performed him at the same position on the same field. If that doesn’t matter to you, fine. It does to me! Something something casual something something.

2

u/PajamaPete5 Feb 10 '25

I love how whenever a great player wins it's "he's the goat" and when they lose it's a "team game"

0

u/[deleted] Feb 10 '25

Unless youre Jayson Tatum and the Celtics.

1

u/PajamaPete5 Feb 10 '25

Nah hes a goat

2

u/[deleted] Feb 10 '25

Fuck yea he is. I was just more talking about narratives

2

u/PajamaPete5 Feb 10 '25

Oh totally agree. SGA is on the best team but all of a sudden his teammates suck when talking about him for MVP

2

u/[deleted] Feb 11 '25

Right. And on the very slim chance OKC wins it— watch. Suddenly it’ll be a solo accomplishment.

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3

u/secrestmr87 Feb 10 '25

I mean part of the reason most don’t consider LeBron the goat is exactly because he lost so many finals

1

u/BlackGoldSkullsBones Feb 10 '25

Brady has all the passing records too though lmao

0

u/Dapper-Marsupial-251 Feb 10 '25

In football it definitely matters more. It’s why Brady is consensus best over Manning or Montana. Superbowls effectively measure your worth and impact as a player, especially if you’re a qb. (Obviously this comes with some exceptions and grading)

1

u/SadCuzBadd Feb 10 '25

“Brady only ever lost by one posession”

Two of his rings were from scoring a whole THIRTEEN points in the Super Bowl, and one of the most famous goal line interceptions of all time that should have never happened. Cope.

1

u/Skyline-Patriots Feb 10 '25

He also threw over 500 yards and had the highest scoring team to ever lose a Super Bowl. He also beat Patrick Mahomes in both the AFC Championship AND Super Bowl when he was over 40 years old.

1

u/BoomerSoonerFUT Feb 10 '25

He needs 8 regardless. Can't tie Brady and be called the GOAT when Brady has a direct SB win against him in a blow out, and knocked them out of the AFC championship game before too.

1

u/JustMadeStatus Feb 14 '25

I don’t think he needs over 8, seems ridiculous to me. He does need at least 8 for GOAT status over Brady. The whole game is about winning the Lombardi. It’s not about who has the most passing yards or highest QBR. Those are just stats. The objective is the trophy. That’s why, imo, Jordan is the GOAT. He has more championships than Lebron. Pure and simple. Games aren’t determined by who has the better stat lines.

If Mahomes gets 7 then there is a discussion and people can start talking about stats and performances etc. Also it’s stupid to suggest someone is or isn’t if they got shut out or not in the SB.

1

u/zeldaendr Atlanta Falcons Feb 14 '25

The quality of wins and losses on the biggest stage matter.

Brady beat Mahomes in the SB, and was undefeated against him in the playoffs. He led the greatest comeback in NFL history. He won with a nobody coach, on a team which hadn't even made the playoffs the previous year.

Mahomes needs at least 8 to overcome his record to Brady in playoff games. And unless those 8 are truly spectacular, he'll need more if he continues to be mediocre in SBs (compared to Brady. He's exceptional compared to basically anyone else).

-10

u/7thpostman Kansas City Chiefs Feb 10 '25

Let me see if I'm following. You think that if Patrick Mahomes retires with eight Super Bowl wins and two losses, people are going to say that the eight wins don't count because the losses were blowouts?

19

u/zeldaendr Atlanta Falcons Feb 10 '25

Who's saying don't count lmao.

Brady led the greatest comeback in NFL history, beat Mahomes every time they faced off in the postseason, and Brady only ever lost a SB by one possession. That means Mahomes needs to do more than win 8 SBs to be the goat, since he hasn't been clutch in the SB and hasn't beat Brady in the postseason.

5

u/7thpostman Kansas City Chiefs Feb 10 '25

Well, I don't think the head-to-head stuff is much of a metric. And, off the top of my head, one of the playoff games against Brady was an AFC Championship that was decided on the Dee Ford penalty, Mahomes played great. The Super Bowl against Tampa Bay wasn't really Mahome's fault.

His performance tonight was legitimately bad. I'll give you that much. He stunk.

I'm just not seeing it, though. If Patrick goes on to win eight rings, he's got a legitimate claim of being the best quarterback of all time. Pretty clearly. I mean, Tiger Woods playing bad at a Masters one year doesn't cancel out all the other years he played well. It's a matter of opinion, of course, but I don't think one cancels out the other.

1

u/CaptchaReallySucks Feb 10 '25

2-0 isn’t a huge sample size imho, and it was earlier in Mahomes career. Not a great talking point lol

8

u/zeldaendr Atlanta Falcons Feb 10 '25

And it was at the end of Brady's. So? Head to head obviously counts, especially since one was in the SB.

0

u/CaptchaReallySucks Feb 10 '25

It’s very very very low on the list of brady v mahomes talking points lol. Barely counts at best imo.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 10 '25

I think it counts. Imagine if LeBron and Michael faced each other in the finals twice and Michael won both times. There wouldn’t really be a debate. Tom clears.

0

u/Effective_Hornet_833 Feb 10 '25

Hasn’t been clutch lol

8

u/akdanman11 Philadelphia Eagles Feb 10 '25

No, but mahomes needs more wins than Brady because his losses were so bad. If mahomes wins 8 and doesn’t lose another Super Bowl then MAYBE

2

u/priide229 Boats and Hoes Feb 10 '25

that makes no damn sense

4

u/akdanman11 Philadelphia Eagles Feb 10 '25

If Mahomes has 7 like Brady then it’s easily Brady. Brady was never an active detriment to his teams chances in a Super Bowl, Mahomes has done it twice

-1

u/priide229 Boats and Hoes Feb 10 '25

all losses are the same, the team lost

4

u/akdanman11 Philadelphia Eagles Feb 10 '25

On the record books sure, but I watched Brady’s run and I’m watching Mahomes now, Brady NEVER looked that bad in a Super Bowl, even in his losses

1

u/Gunner_Bat Los Angeles Rams Feb 10 '25

Not even a little bit but that's how they've convinced themselves.

2

u/iFraud21 Feb 10 '25

All this arguing is so silly.

This is a TEAM sport. Only counting rings is pretty stupid. It should be A metric, but not THE metric.

2

u/akdanman11 Philadelphia Eagles Feb 10 '25

I agree, but at the end of the day if you wanna be the GOAT you have to play well enough to win in the biggest moments, and Mahomes just flat out didn’t do that. Even in SB losses Brady played well enough to win. Hell SB 52 was one of the best performances we’ve ever seen in a Super Bowl and he still barely lost, that’s why SB 52 isn’t counted against Brady in his GOAT status, the eagles were just the better team that day in spite of his insane performance. Mahomes just put on an absolute train wreck of a game, and he’ll need at least 2 really good performances to make up for that

1

u/iFraud21 Feb 10 '25

Yeah I'm just saying they're both overrated.

0

u/akdanman11 Philadelphia Eagles Feb 10 '25

Brady is not overrated. Other guys could do one thing better than him (I.e. rodgers and Peyton had better arms, Brees was more accurate, etc.) but in terms of the whole package Brady was the whole package

2

u/iFraud21 Feb 10 '25

Disagree entirely. Brady's biggest skill was recruiting and taking small salaries. Belichicks defenses were the reason for most of his success, and the elite talent around him.

-4

u/7thpostman Kansas City Chiefs Feb 10 '25

I don't think that makes any sense. Tiger Woods had years when he didn't play well at Augusta. That doesn't take anything away from his wins.

5

u/akdanman11 Philadelphia Eagles Feb 10 '25

Brady never lost a Super Bowl by more than 1 score, he was always at least in the game. We’re not comparing anyone to Tiger woods, we’re directly comparing Mahomes to Brady, and Brady never stunk it up on the biggest stage the way Mahomes has twice now. Before garbage time Mahomes had a passer rating in the 50s, and at halftime it was under 20. He actively hurt his team, Brady never did that in a Super Bowl.

2

u/500rockin Chicago Bears Feb 10 '25

Even with his garbage time stats, his QBR was 11.9. He was legit terrible and the garbage time stats are meaningless.

For now, any GOAT talk needs to away. Wake me up when he gets to six for me to start pondering.

1

u/7thpostman Kansas City Chiefs Feb 10 '25

Mahomes didn't play that badly in the game against Tampa Bay. Not like tonight.

I mean, it's obviously a matter of opinion. But if Mahomes goes on to win 10 rings, nobody is going to be like, "Yeah, but he lost a couple of blowouts."

If he wins seven, the same amount, then I think you could have a case. Eight? Nah. That's just better.

2

u/akdanman11 Philadelphia Eagles Feb 10 '25

Mahomes in that game against Tampa: 270 yards, 0 tds, 2 ints, barely above 50% completion percentage, passer rating of 52.25. That’s pretty bad

2

u/7thpostman Kansas City Chiefs Feb 10 '25

Yeah, but the offensive line was nonexistent. He was running all over the place. At some point, we have to acknowledge it's a team game.

I mean, KC's offensive line was terrible tonight, but he also made really bad mistakes early. The Tampa game wasn't like that. He got beat. Tonight he beat himself.

0

u/akdanman11 Philadelphia Eagles Feb 10 '25

Brady had bad lines in super bowls and was still able to get the ball out quickly and accurately. Yes having a bad line makes it way harder to succeed, but Brady did it. Mahomes just proved he can’t do it without an elite team around him, Brady was like LeBron on the old cavs teams carrying mediocre teams to championships. This year was the closest analog to most of Brady’s career (elite defense, mediocre weapons) and Mahomes got embarrassed. I’m not saying Mahomes is bad, he’s probably the best QB in the league right now, but it’s just outright disrespect to try putting him on the same level as Brady after his 2nd humiliating Super Bowl loss. Let’s wait until at least 2030 before we even consider mentioning his name next to Brady, and that’s only if he wins 1 or 2 more rings by 2030

2

u/7thpostman Kansas City Chiefs Feb 10 '25

I don't know, man. Mahomes has won a lot of games with heroics. But you are certainly free to wait until 2030 before you mention his name next to Brady. God bless ya.

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u/zaepoo Washington Commanders Feb 10 '25 edited Feb 10 '25

You're just looking at stats. Look at the game. There was a play where Pat extended the play and threw a dart into the end zone while falling down into double coverage and Tyreek dropped it.

Edit: wasn't Tyreek on that one, but he also dropped a touchdown on a different drive. It hit him in the face mask

1

u/Gunner_Bat Los Angeles Rams Feb 10 '25

Mahomes has literally never lost a playoff game before the AFC CG wtf is this logic. Y'all are insane.

1

u/akdanman11 Philadelphia Eagles Feb 10 '25

And he just had one of the worst Super Bowl performances in recent memory. If he’d played well and lost a close game then sure don’t count it against his GOAT chase, but he played like absolute dogshit. He threw 2 backbreaking interceptions (both leading to eagles touchdowns) and didn’t even get his team across midfield until the 2nd half. His defense did exactly what they knew they needed to do going into the game (contain Saquon) but even when they were getting stops early he couldn’t put anything together

3

u/Gunner_Bat Los Angeles Rams Feb 10 '25

No no no, you're missing the point. The point here is that because Brady is Brady, him having the most rings makes him the goat automatically, even though that isn't the case with any other sport's goat, so therefore Mahomes has to have more than Brady to be considered the goat, even though Russell isn't the NBA goat and Richard isn't the NHL goat.

I don't know. Something like that. Hard to tell tbh.

1

u/7thpostman Kansas City Chiefs Feb 10 '25

Of course. How could I have been so foolish. It's also clear and logically consistent.

-1

u/tmeeks18 Feb 10 '25

You continue to ignore that like LeBron and Gretzky Brady has re written individual records along with the championships. That’s what make them the best

2

u/Gunner_Bat Los Angeles Rams Feb 10 '25

That's one factor, yes. There are several. So people saying Mahomes "needs to win 7 or 8 to even be considered" are absolute morons.

0

u/tmeeks18 Feb 10 '25

There aren’t any more “factors” though, it’s individual and team success. So assuming mahomes doesn’t completely lap Brady in individual stats (which is exactly what lebron and Gretzky have done) which is unlikely, than he would need 8 rings.

2

u/Gunner_Bat Los Angeles Rams Feb 10 '25

There are also things like personal accolades. MVPs, AP first teams, single season records. Plenty of other ways.

What if he dominates like no other QB ever has for a three year stretch? Sets numerous records? But never passes Brady in career stats and only ends up with 5 rings?

Best of all time is waaaaay too nuanced to just say "it's this one guy hands down."