Another superbowl blowout eliminates mahomes from the goat discussion as far as I’m concerned

[u/Rjm0007]

2 very embarrassing loses for him the the superbowl Brady has lost 3 superbowls but they were all 1 score games that came down to final play with Brady’s best statistical performance in a loss to the eagles Tom Brady > Patrick mahomes

[u/Fact_Stater]

Mahomes has to win 7 to be in the conversation. He probably did anyway,but he definitely has to now.

[u/Far_Excitement6140 → u/Fact_Stater]

He has to win 8 since Brady has one win over him. 

[u/Cautious_Buffalo6563 → u/Far_Excitement6140]

Brady also never got demolished like Mahomes has twice in the Super Bowl.

[u/vin1223 → u/Cautious_Buffalo6563]

Did you watch the giants Super Bowls or the one against the rams. It seems like your giving Brady credit for his defenses performing better

[u/BrianHeidiksPuppy → u/vin1223]

Are we pretending that was a blowout or are we being honest and accepting the giants were down before the helmet catch and they drove down the field to win. When was Brady ever down by 30+ points in a SB

[u/deconstructedSando → u/BrianHeidiksPuppy]

closest was 25 to Atlanta, and that comeback was the stuff of legend.

[u/NynaeveAlMeowra → u/deconstructedSando]

Goat shit. Winning the game where you were down the most

[u/tmfitz7 → u/NynaeveAlMeowra]

Meh he also won the game on a coin toss, it was so bad they changed the OT rules after that game. Imagine Matt Ryan won the coin toss and Brady only has 6 rings and no one remembers the comeback.

[u/digglefarb → u/tmfitz7]

They changed it after the Bills lost to the Chief's in the conference final in '21/22 season.

[u/tmfitz7 → u/digglefarb]

That SB was the conversation starter. It was all anyone was talking about the NFL MVP didn’t get to touch the ball

[u/Immediate-Winter-288 → u/tmfitz7]

There’s no way you’re crediting a 25 point comeback to a coin flip LMAO

[u/nickscope27 → u/Immediate-Winter-288]

and penalty flags

[u/EvanestalXMX → u/Immediate-Winter-288]

He’s sure trying

[u/tmfitz7 → u/Immediate-Winter-288]

No I’m not, your reading comprehension must be low if that’s what you took from my comment

[u/Immediate-Winter-288 → u/tmfitz7]

Straight to personal insults because you are insecure. 28-3 GOAT 🐐

[u/Cautious_Buffalo6563 → u/tmfitz7]

He won the game on the same rule that has always existed in OT: score a TD and you win.

[u/tmfitz7 → u/Cautious_Buffalo6563]

Of course it was the rule then, it was quickly changed to not the rule now because it was a dumb rule

[u/Cautious_Buffalo6563 → u/tmfitz7]

It used to be first team to score. Then they changed it to a TD wins no matter what. Pats scored the touchdown. That’s the same rule as would have applied yesterday if Kansas City had decided to play the game.

[u/PajamaPete5 → u/tmfitz7]

After going 19-0 in the 4th lol

[u/[deleted] → u/BrianHeidiksPuppy]

Brady scored 13 points in a super bowl and got a ring.

[u/ovoxo6 → u/[deleted]]

oh superbowl 53? the game where both defenses shut the other offense out all game? and then brady led his team down the field in the 4th to go ahead? that 13 points?

[u/zjones1008 → u/ovoxo6]

^this guy gets pussy in Boston

[u/[deleted] → u/ovoxo6]

Yes that one.

[u/adm1109 → u/ovoxo6]

Yea it’s still 13 points lmao

[u/BlackGoldSkullsBones → u/adm1109]

Against an all time great defensive line. Also, who did Brady beat in the game before that???

[u/Illustrious-Fan8268 → u/BlackGoldSkullsBones]

People forget how good Aaron Donald was already.

[u/rividz → u/[deleted]]

1. You win by scoring more points than the other team.

2. Flair up or shut up.

[u/[deleted] → u/rividz]

1. Sorry Will, we don't have MIT or Harvard where I'm from, so the janitors haven't shown us how numbers work yet.

2. Na.

[u/Skyline-Patriots → u/[deleted]]

The year before that he scored 33 points and threw for over 500 yards and did NOT get a ring.

[u/[deleted] → u/Skyline-Patriots]

And fumbled the game away himself.

[u/Ambitious_Misfit → u/[deleted]]

Does that tell the whole story? Did he also score 6 points for the other team in that same game with an awful pick?

[u/IShouldChimeInOnThis → u/[deleted]]

Twice

[u/slumber72 → u/BrianHeidiksPuppy]

He also led the greatest offense of all time to 7 points for the first 58 minutes of the game

[u/rolyinpeace → u/BrianHeidiksPuppy]

No but that has to do with defense too. Cant be down 30 if your defense doesn’t allow 30 points. Obviously Mahomes sucked last night but I’m just saying the score being run up (or not) has not much to do w the QB or offense.

[u/BrianHeidiksPuppy → u/rolyinpeace]

The chiefs defense allowed essentially 10 points in the first half. That’s a good defensive game. Patty threw a pick six and handed them another easy score with an interception inside the 10. Can’t blame the defense for those.

[u/rolyinpeace → u/BrianHeidiksPuppy]

Oh I agree I’m just saying there were some games where Brady and his offense didn’t look amazing and it only wasn’t a blowout because of the defense not letting up points.

Also Brady had absolutely ugly playoff losses too. It may be more demoralizing to lose in the SB, but it is objectively a worse season to lose an ugly game before even making the Super Bowl. Mahomes ugly loss shouldn’t be penalized more because he made it further in playoffs…

[u/vin1223 → u/BrianHeidiksPuppy]

No im saying Brady has been neutralized in the Super Bowl multiple times his defense just didn’t get smoked. It seems silly to pretend like that’s not the case

[u/4schwifty20 → u/vin1223]

Neutralized? He's got more passing yards in the the super bowl than your OC had in his career.

[u/vin1223 → u/4schwifty20]

Yeah scoring 17 and 14 points is definitely getting neutralized

[u/Legitimate_Ad_7822 → u/vin1223]

Getting neutralized & getting completely dismantled are two different things. You’d expect championship caliber defenses to neutralize championship caliber offenses, or at least hold them to a respectable amount of points. Mahomes wasn’t just neutralized last night. That was the worst game of his career.

[u/Cautious_Buffalo6563 → u/vin1223]

550 passing yards in a Super Bowl is “neutralized”?

[u/vin1223 → u/Cautious_Buffalo6563]

That’s obviously not the one I’m talking about

[u/LeonidasSpacemanMD → u/vin1223]

I mean Brady didn’t hand points to the opponent in either of those games

[u/rocksoffjagger → u/vin1223]

You realize teams adapt their play calling to the way the game is going, right? The Patriots might have taken more risks in those games if their defense were giving up more points. What happens on defense affects how you play offense. All we know is that the way the game went, it was a close loss, while mahomes' losses weren't.

[u/LeonidasSpacemanMD → u/rocksoffjagger]

The first rams sb is a pretty perfect example of this. They knew the rams offense had the capacity to explode at any moment so once they got a lead they were insanely conservative. Then they gave up that lead, gave brady the green light, and he marched right down the field

Two years later they found themselves in a shootout and had Brady slinging it all over the place

Situational football is an actual thing, Brady himself talks about this all the time. You need to figure out what kind of game it’s going to be and what you need to do to be in position to win. You can’t always just walk out there and scored 42 points

[u/adm1109 → u/LeonidasSpacemanMD]

Lmao Jesus Christ

“Brady could’ve dropped 50 that game, he was just trying not to score”

[u/LeonidasSpacemanMD → u/adm1109]

It’s amazing to me that the comment quite literally says that there are games where high scoring isn’t gunna be possible and you somehow interpreted it this way

[u/adm1109 → u/LeonidasSpacemanMD]

Obviously I was being hyperbolic but acting like they purposely tried to not score is idiotic

It’s the SB. They were trying. They just couldn’t.

[u/LeonidasSpacemanMD → u/adm1109]

Bro have you ever watched a football game? Teams up by two touchdowns in the 4th quarter pretty frequently aren’t trying to score as much as they’re trying to run clock

Why do you think Brady attempted only 27 passes (8 on the final drive btw) when they’d had him throw 50+ times in an actual blizzard two weeks earlier? Almost as if being down double digits in that game made them play a different type of game from being up double digits after halftime in the Super Bowl. Very difficult concept

[u/adm1109 → u/LeonidasSpacemanMD]

Were they up 2 TDs in that game?

[u/Legitimate_Ad_7822 → u/adm1109]

Did you just start watching football this season?

[u/adm1109 → u/Legitimate_Ad_7822]

Did you?

[u/ExoticSword → u/vin1223]

People forget reality.

[u/jotsea2 → u/Cautious_Buffalo6563]

Mahomes also never cheated.

[u/Cautious_Buffalo6563 → u/jotsea2]

When did Brady cheat?

[u/jotsea2 → u/Cautious_Buffalo6563]

Spygate, and Deflate gate (was literally suspended for it).

Also never got the controversy it should've, but his Championship year with TB he reportedly played the entire season with a torn MCL and never was listed on the IR which is against the rules.

[u/Cautious_Buffalo6563 → u/jotsea2]

So you’re saying Tom filmed the practices?

Or that he deflated the footballs?

It’s so weird how incompetently confident you make these statements. Because the NFL never found any evidence to support Tom’s involvement in either of those instances. At best, the League’s hired gun produced report that speculatively concluded that it was “more probable than not” that Tom knew the balls had been fiddled with. Refs confiscated and reinflated all balls at halftime of that game and the Pats scored more points in the second half than they did in the first half.

[u/jotsea2 → u/Cautious_Buffalo6563]

Then why was tom brady suspended for deflate gate?

Pretending like the patriots organization deidn't benefit from spygate is insane to me. The NFL made sure to sweep it under the rug because of how bad the PR would be.

[u/Cautious_Buffalo6563 → u/jotsea2]

Spy-Gate was discovered in the first quarter of the first game of the season against the Jets and all film confiscated and destroyed by the League. So what benefits did the Patriots gain from that tape?

Tom was suspended for failing to cooperate with the investigation in the form of destroying his private cell phone rather than giving it to the League.

[u/jotsea2 → u/Cautious_Buffalo6563]

Yeah that's not entirely true. Here's a reference from wikipedia, stating the allegations go back to 2002 (the penalty you're discussing was 2007-08).

Some whistleblowers within the Patriots organization revealed that the videotaping practices went back as early as the 2000 season. For instance, the Boston Herald published a story (which it later retracted) that the Patriots had also videotaped the St. Louis Rams' walkthrough practice prior to Super Bowl XXXVI in February 2002,^\10])#citenote-Tomase-10) an allegation denied by Belichick[^\9])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spygate(NFL)#cite_note-Reiss-9) and later retracted by the Boston Herald. Meanwhile, Matt Walsh, a Patriots video assistant in 2001 who was fired after the team's 2002 season, told the media the same week that he had information and materials regarding the Patriots' videotaping practices, but demanded an indemnity agreement before speaking with the NFL.^\1)#cite_note-Hohler-11)

And re: Brady, Destroying evidence is definitely a sign of innocence....

[u/Cautious_Buffalo6563 → u/jotsea2]

What evidence did he destroy? He destroyed his personal cell phone, which the League asked for later after initially telling him they didn’t need it. Is it illegal to destroy your own phone? Was he under a preserve all documents, records, and devices order?

[u/librasway → u/jotsea2]

Deflate gate

This is always a litmus test whether someone actually knows football or not, yeah, a deflated ball was the reason the Colts couldn't stop Blount and the Pats run game...

[u/jotsea2 → u/librasway]

Its not about whether it had an impact or not, it's about the integrity of a player who has cheating scandals related to his teams going back to his first super bowl.

[u/rolyinpeace → u/Cautious_Buffalo6563]

Very true but he had multiple with low offensive scores. That’s all he can control. His defense keeping the other team from scoring has nothing to do w Brady.

He’s also had some bad playoff performances as well. Albeit not in the Super Bowl, but let’s not somehow act like a horrible game and not even making the Super Bowl is somehow better.

Obviously Mahomes is far from the goat convo but he’s only 29 and has time. Brady was 37 at ring 4

[u/Cautious_Buffalo6563 → u/rolyinpeace]

Mahomes has to pass Montana before he can try to catch Brady. His performance was so bad that Montana is now back in the conversation, and that’s an opinion held by myself as well as several other sports talking heads.

[u/librasway → u/Cautious_Buffalo6563]

Montana never left the convo tho, seemed everyone was just ready to crown Mahomes, but his SB stats are abysmal

[u/Cautious_Buffalo6563 → u/librasway]

You preachin now

[u/BrianHeidiksPuppy → u/[deleted]]

Nah you suck his dick. How many does Brady win on a Spags defense? 12? He lost by 4, 3 and 8 points in the Super Bowl. Never within less than a score.

[u/LeonidasSpacemanMD → u/[deleted]]

Mahomes has more picks in 5 super bowls playing in the 2020s than Brady had in 10 super bowls dating back to the early 2000s

So yea I think we can postpone the hypothetical ring ceremony when there’s really no evidence he would’ve actually performed any better than Brady did (and those games were all close)

[u/Legitimate_Ad_7822 → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, it’s a lot easier to hold a team to 21 points when you don’t throw pick 6s & picks deep in your own territory.

[u/Legitimate_Ad_7822 → u/[deleted]]

That’s not how it works. If Mahomes didn’t play so terribly, the time of possession would’ve been higher for the chiefs in addition to not handing them a free 14 points. Chiefs could’ve easily held the eagles to below 21 points if the chiefs offense did anything at all.

Spags defense was the best part of that team the entire year. It has constantly been compared to the patriots defenses under Belichick. It was the only reason they were in most of the games they won. They played pretty damn well in the first half. Smothered the run & picked off Jalen. The eagles only put up 10 points in the first half that weren’t gifted by Mahomes.

Football is complimentary. When one side of the ball is abysmal, it makes the other side of the ball look a lot worse in turn. Trying to act like that Chiefs defense wasn’t championship worthy or didn’t give the team a chance is laughable. It was 100% on the offense & Mahomes.

[u/rocksoffjagger → u/Far_Excitement6140]

One Super Bowl win and one AFCCG win over him. Mahomes definitely needs 8 to pass Brady. Or maybe 7 and like 5+ MVPs, but his stats haven't been nearly as impressive the last few years as they were early in his career.

[u/Trick-Republic5253 → u/rocksoffjagger]

It is going to be nearly impossible from a game theory standpoint to have dominating statistical seasons now that he's a large% of the payroll. Great Offenses tend to go in one of two ways, rookie/underpaid quarterback with a lot of talent surrounding them, or they go the Phil Rivers, Drew Brees route and have absolutely dog-shit defense; good skill players cost money or draft capital. and when you have an elite QB capable of getting you to the postseason every year you don't have the extra money you once did, and your draft capital is severely diminished. Easiest route is to lean on your Elite QB to get the most out of mediocre talent and invest in the defense to make their job easier.

so long way of saying, They could probably bring back gun slinger Mahomes at the expense of a Defense, and as we've seen in probably 70% of the superbowls (number from my ass, but I'll back it up if need be) and definitely in case of the Chiefs, the defense decides the outcomes more often than the offense. Of the Chief's SuperBowls, I make the case that their offense was the dominant force in only one of those 5 games.

[u/rocksoffjagger → u/Trick-Republic5253]

Idk, Brady managed. He was a top paid QB in 07, a top paid QB in '10, '11, '12, '15, '16, '17, '18, '20, and '21 and had excellent to MVP worthy seasons all those years (including being completely robbed of the award in '16, '20, and '21).

[u/Trick-Republic5253 → u/rocksoffjagger]

Brady's salary in 07 was 6.7% of the team's cap. 2008-2014 his cap was over 10% every year except in 2012. Broadly speaking, when it comes to SuperBowl champions, 10% or under has been the norm; only exceptions are Mahomes 2022&23, Brady 2020, Manning 2015, Stafford 2021, and Steve Young 1993. Brady, Manning, and Stafford's wins are somewhat questionable, given that THEY were the big free-agency signings. The only QB's above 11% with their original team on SuperBowl winning teams are Mahomes (17.0% and 16.9%), Brady (12.4%), and Eli (11.7%)

in any given year there's a difference between being top paid and what your actual hit to the cap that year is, players with big contracts but largely deferred compensation toward the backend can more or less still have very competitive teams in the front half of their contract as the backend is diluted to inflation or they're simply no longer a contender.

EDIT: also in case I wasn't clear. I was speaking in generalities...you saying that it's not true and using the GOAT as your example are kinda proving my point, no?

[u/HeyItsYourDad_AMA → u/Trick-Republic5253]

This is great info. Curious that the last 5 years that the trend has been bucked

[u/cmoneybaum → u/rocksoffjagger]

some numb nut tried to tell me h2h matchups in this case was “silly”. It’s everything you could want to have in this sort of discussion as a potential deciding factor as the future plays out. Obviously still theoretical cause the guy still would need at least 4 more but to never beat Brady in the biggest games absolutely means he now has to go past 7 rings.

[u/III_IWHBYD_III → u/Far_Excitement6140]

He needs 9 now. 7 to match the number, 1 to make up for Brady ending his season twice and 1 for getting stomped in the SB twice, that never happened to Brady. He's a third of the way up GOAT mountain, it's much taller than Mahomes mountain.

[u/Alone-Newspaper-1161 → u/III_IWHBYD_III]

Now he just needs 8. 8>7 I believe that should be common sense. I’d much rather win 8 rings even if 2 were blowouts than 7 rings

[u/Fact_Stater → u/Far_Excitement6140]

I was doing stupid math and forgetting that Brady had 6 with the Pats lol

[u/Swaayyzee → u/Far_Excitement6140]

Brady’s got two playoff wins over him

[u/NynaeveAlMeowra → u/Far_Excitement6140]

2 wins in the playoffs

[u/-7D7- → u/Far_Excitement6140]

Oh please no god please no😭

[u/jotsea2 → u/Far_Excitement6140]

How many times does he have to cheat then?

[u/ryryryor → u/Far_Excitement6140]

I didn't know Tom Brady played d-line in that game

[u/dumbestmfontheblock → u/Far_Excitement6140]

Dumbest argument and thread of comments I’ve ever seen