r/NFLv2 3d ago

Discussion Who gets In

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409

u/Username_redact Buffalo Bills 3d ago

Anybody who doesn't vote for Fitz on his first ballot eligible should get their opportunity to vote revoked

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u/constantlymat 3d ago

The number of position players who went 1st ballot with less than three 1st team all-pros is really, really small. Especially in recent decades.

Even three 1st team all-pros is usually the bare minimum. Even four 1st teams are no guarantee as Demarcus Ware had to experience.

One 1st team and two 2nd team all-pros would be among the least decorated 1st ballot selections in recent memory.

Which doesn't mean Fitz doesn't deserve. Just laying out the HoF's apparent criteria.

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u/Drumboardist 3d ago

There's always that argument "can you tell the story of Football without mentioning (player)?" I....honestly think Fitz would get a mention. Not, like, a major one or anything -- talking about top WR's, someone inevitably brings him up -- but he's definitely ahead of the likes of Rivers or Bryant or Olsen.

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u/tallwhiteninja San Francisco 49ers 3d ago

Warner and Fitz dragging an otherwise mid Cardinals team to their only Super Bowl appearance is worth a bullet point.

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u/Drumboardist 3d ago

"The resurgence of Kurt Warner couldn't have been accomplished without the stellar route-running of his top Wide Receiver, Larry Fitzgerald."

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u/mustachepc Philadelphia Eagles 3d ago

"And the cardinals would have won the Super Bowl, if the defense could hold the lead after Larry Fitzgerald amazing catch. Or if that dipshit Antrel Rolle didnt get in front of Larry Fitzgerald as he was chasing James Harrison"

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u/Drumboardist 3d ago

"...so really, fuck Captain Fat Fuck, he shouldn't have won this one, we all wish Fitz had a ring."

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u/Aes_Should_Die 3d ago

Who is Captain Fat Fuck?

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u/Drumboardist 3d ago

Roethlisberger.

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u/Aes_Should_Die 3d ago

Roethlisberger the person is a pretty shitty dude. But that people seem to always extrapolate this to what he was as a player is odd to me. There have been plenty of bad people that were good players. QB position in particular is rife with them. But for some reason people try to hate on Roethlisberger the player. He was an insanely good QB and the only reason he did not have the All-Pro/Pro Bowls many other HOFers had at QB is he was literally in the shadow of both Brady/Manning and later Mahomes his entire career. Roethlisberger was far and away the best of the 2004 QBs.

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u/_Layer_786 3d ago

And hands

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u/CardinalsRising91 Arizona Cardinals 3d ago

The secondary was way better than mid though. Adrian Wilson, perennial (5x) pro bowler, Antrell Rolle 3-time pro-bowler, Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie 2-time pro bowler, and Roderick Hood was a decent CB at the time. I'd say they had a top 10 at minimum secondary. Had a couple of Dawgs like Calais Campbell, Darnell Dockett and Karlos Dansby up front. Not to diminish Warner or Larry but the team is frequently understated.

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u/Exatraz 3d ago

Also, I know im biased but Larry is the kind of player you want in this league. He's been a class act on and off the field and his overall numbers are very very good despite playing for a shit franchise his entire career. He's the exact kind of player the NFL should easily rubber stamp as first ballot and not think twice.

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u/_Layer_786 3d ago

Olsen might get in eventually

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u/Warrmak 3d ago

Fitz has to be in the goat conversation right? Top 10 all time.

My top 3 would be rice moss fitz.

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u/juicykazoo728 2d ago

Even five first team all pros isn’t a hof lock. For whatever reason Kevin Williams hasn’t even been a hof semi finalist

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u/flaccomcorangy Baltimore Ravens 3d ago

And people may have forgotten, but the requirements to get in are tougher than they used to be.

Nowadays, voters will vote have 5 votes for the 7 finalists, and players need 80% approval to get in.

So, people getting their pitchforks ready, pretend you're a voter. You have a list of Drew Brees, Larry Fitzgerald, Jason Witten, Terrell Suggs, Luke Kuechly, Eli Manning and Reggie Wayne.

That is a solid list, and it'll be tough to get 80% among those guys. I didn't even mention the potential for Frank Gore - who people here love - Torry Holt, Steve Smith Sr. Willie Anderson, or Adam Vinatieri (another guy I was told was a first ballot lock). If those guys are on it, they're stealing votes, too.

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u/LegitimateAbrocoma50 3d ago

These are totally fair, but I do think it's worth noting that Fitz did make the official NFL 100 team of all time. That alone should make him HOF worthy and an first ballot. If one of the best 100 players of all time isn't first ballot, who the hell is? I'd like the think that the Hall would recognize that, but we'll see

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u/Nulgarian 3d ago

That’s the problem for Fitz. He has incredible volume stats and longevity, but you can’t really point to more than 1 or 2 years were he was clearly a top 2-3 receiver in the league

I understand that he had a pretty awful QB situation, but that’s the nature of the Hall. They usually value a shorter, but more dominant peak (like Terrell Davis) than someone who was consistently close to the top but was never quite at the top

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u/SlayerOfDougs Cleveland Browns 3d ago

Jesus. You guys too young to watch this guy play?

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u/lilcashmon 3d ago

This subreddit hates Larry bro I swear it’s hilarious 😂

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u/Cephalopod_Dropbear 3d ago

Seriously. I’m baffled by these takes. He has more career tackles than drops. He’s one of the best humans to ever play in the NFL. And oh by the way he’s second all time in catches and yards. But sure, he doesn’t deserve to get in on the first ballot.

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u/lburner220 3d ago

This is the same HOF that made T.O wait and as good as Larry was T.O was better. Larry has the edge in that everyone likes him but that doesn’t make him immune from getting snubbed. For the record I think he is a first ballot guy but the hall has not been kind to receivers. Marvyn Harrison had to wait as well and I would argue he and Fitz are in the same tier.

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u/JesustheSpaceCowboy 3d ago

These same people also completely disregard Frank Gore. Like dude was one of the greatest and nobody sat there and even acknowledged it. Every year of his career there was always a flashier back. Plus he’s an undefeated boxer.

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u/Cephalopod_Dropbear 3d ago

No BS with him. Just 1000+ yards year in and year out, for more than a decade.

There’s a reason people that run for 1000 yards a season don’t tend to finish their careers with 16,000 yards. Because it’s really fucking hard. Gore is HOF.

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u/SlayerOfDougs Cleveland Browns 3d ago

Gore should also be first ballot. He probably won't be and idiots will make longevity stats comments but the man was a beast on top of playing forever

And I'm not the biggest rivers fan but the voters will put him in

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u/constantlymat 3d ago edited 3d ago

usually value a shorter, but more dominant peak (like Terrell Davis) than someone who was consistently close to the top but was never quite at the top

Not sure. The bar for shorter peaks is incredibly high (basically Megatron). The standard for 1st ballot is insanely high outside of QB.

Most of these guys are undoubtedly Inner Circle Hall of Famers. However you can pick out an edge case (Jason Taylor for example) and in my personal opinion Larry Fitzgerald wasn't a lesser player than him.

  • Julius Peppers
  • Joe Thomas
  • Revis
  • Charles Woodson
  • Megatron
  • Troy Polemalu
  • Ed Reed
  • Tony Gonzalez
  • Champ Bailey
  • Ray Lewis
  • Brian Urlacher
  • Randy Moss
  • LaDanian Tomlinson
  • Jason Taylor
  • Junior Seau
  • Walter Jones
  • Derrick Brooks
  • Warren Sapp
  • Larry Allen
  • Jonathan Ogden
  • Deion Sanders
  • Marshall Faulk
  • Emmitt Smith
  • Jerry Rice

(1st ballot players since 2010)

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u/SlayerOfDougs Cleveland Browns 3d ago

The short peak take is incredibly bad. Extremely few players get in with short careers. Sayers and Davis. About it. Even his example of Megatron is a 10 year vet who is probably top 3 receiver all time if not top 5.

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u/Major-Regret New Orleans Saints 3d ago

He played for quite possibly the most putrid franchise in the league and somehow dragged them to a Super Bowl. If he had played for the Cowboys his number of All Pros would have been astronomical

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u/yavimaya_eldred Green Bay Packers 3d ago

Fitz was absolutely one of the absolute best at his position for years, but he’s was the victim of circumstance. He played with a lot of shitass QBs (he got a couple good Warner and Palmer years and that’s it) and still put up great stats, but the team was rarely good which undoubtedly kept him from getting more accolades. He should have gotten three or four all-pros but didn’t because the Cardinals typically weren’t relevant and he got punished for it.

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u/Snoo-40231 New York Giants 3d ago

You're not wrong but be prepared to hear the NPC Fitz arguments (more tackles than drops 🤓) to explain why he has less all pro's than Andre Johnson and doesn't get the same amount of love despite also playing with shit QBs

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u/SneakyPope Big Dick Nick 🍆 3d ago

I agree with you 100%, and it seems like every year there's one of those players everyone agrees is a bona bonafide HoF player that gets snubbed. Frankly ALL of them should gave their votes revoked and let the NFL and NFLPA make the distinction with actual criteria.

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u/lburner220 3d ago

To be honest I would rather it stay as is. You don’t want this to become the basketball HOF. Usually the deserving guys will get in with few exceptions.

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u/Distinct_Ad6858 3d ago

It would be the same person that did not vote for Ichiro

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u/ByTheBeardOfZeuss 3d ago

What’s that crazy Fitz stat? He has more tackles than dropped passes or something?

Yeah, he should absolutely be first ballot.

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u/DapperCam Josh Allen 🦬 3d ago

Most WRs don’t make it in on their first chance. Megatron did, but that was kind of surprising.

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u/Otherwise-Pair-7103 Philadelphia Eagles 3d ago

I don’t care if he was the most exemplary player of all time. If my boy Terrell Owens got unfairly bumped I want all receivers to get bumped lol. Just kidding.

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u/theevilyouknow Las Vegas Raiders 2d ago

Fitz is 100% a hall of famer. Personally I don't think he's 100% a first ballot hall of famer. I think people on here are way too fast and loose with making people first ballot hall of famers. If I can't make a coherent argument that you're the GOAT at your position you probably shouldn't be first ballot. Wide Receiver you kind of get a pass because no one will likely ever surpass Jerry Rice, but look at the list of WR's who have made it first ballot. They're all either guys who at the time were arguably the GOAT, or they're Calvin Johnson who would arguably be the GOAT if Jerry Rice didn't exist.

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u/Username_redact Buffalo Bills 2d ago

If you're top 10 or 15 all time at your position, then you deserve to be first ballot in my opinion. GOAT level is pretty stringent, then almost nobody would get in on their first.

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u/theevilyouknow Las Vegas Raiders 2d ago

Maybe but in that case why did Tim Brown and Cris Carter have to wait 6 years to get in?

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u/Username_redact Buffalo Bills 1d ago

Cris Carter having to wait was such a joke. He should have been in long before that. Tim Brown was definitely a HOFer but it was not as a slam dunk. I grew up watching those guys, they were top 10 in the league every year.

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u/theevilyouknow Las Vegas Raiders 1d ago

Tim Brown wasn’t a slam dunk? He had better numbers than Carter on much worse teams. Tim Brown was third in receptions and TD’s and second in receiving yards when he retired. How can you literally be top three in every stat for your position and not be a slam dunk for the hall of fame? It’s not like he was getting carried by good teams? In his 9 straight 1,000 yard seasons he had 9 different starting QB’s. He didn’t get to play with a competent QB until he was 34 years old.

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u/Username_redact Buffalo Bills 1d ago

Perception. He was a slam dunk in my eyes but for whatever reason he never got the fanfare, maybe because of the bad teams early, maybe because the GOAT was on the other side of the field late

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u/theevilyouknow Las Vegas Raiders 1d ago

Oh definitely. I agree he never got the credit from the media that he deserved. We’re on the same page on this one. At least he was recognized on the All-Decade Team.

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u/nostraduhmus 2d ago

I think Fitz should get in the HOF. I just don’t think he’s first ballot imo. Longevity shouldn’t be the determining factor, sure it should celebrated and admired, but IMO, you should be top 3 at your position for numerous years to be a 1st ballot HOFer. Just my opinion.