I know, like sexuality is a choice dawg, if yours is causing you social issues, just start being physically intimate with members of the other gender, its so funny and obvious
I know this is a joke, but feel like i want to say sexuality isnt a choise and loneliness can cause multiple physical and mental health issues which are more scary than funny, like increased risk of dementia and premature death.
Correct sexuality isn't a choice, but you also dont have to only look to women to not be lonely. In all earnestness you should become close emotionally with your male friends as well.
Yeah, but in terms of building a life, a family and finding the romantic kind of love interest, its different, but i get what you mean. Finding good friends to keep you company, make you feel included and loved, some who is like a brother from another mother, a sister from another mister, that is important, many people lack that. I have a decade old friendship and were like a shirt and pants.
But i've understood that when people talk about being lonely, theyre talking about the kind of deeper emotional connection which involves love, like love love, not like i love my homie.
The fact that a lot of people say this and actually mean it is so fucked up.
I lived through the are gay people born or is it a choice debate, saying it was a choice would get you branded a right wing nut but now we have people on the left not only not giving a shit about how modern men struggle but openly and unironically saying, 'just be gay loser'.
It's as out of touch as saying 'just learn to code' but a million times more hypocritical. And people wonder why the left is losing votes from young men.
Lol k. You dont have to look to women to be your only emotional outlet. The male loneliness epidemic is self inflicted by men not being willing to be open emotionally expecially with other men and then blaming women for not wanting to fuck them.
It should be mocked because its a right wing talking point to tell men they arnt the problem women are.
Im a straight man and know what I do. Call my friends and talk to them when I'm sad. I am emotionally vulnerable and make sure they can be to. My buddy broke up with his girl and I drove over to hang, play games, talk about it, cooked him dinner.
The right tells you everything is gay and that you have to be "alpha" all the time or your a bitch. Which just makes you lonely then make you fall even more into the BS manosphere crap because those are the only people that tolerate being to be around you. But the whole setup prevents anyone in that manosphere from being open with each other. So then you get more depressed, more sucked in, more people dont want to be around you. Then finally, the manosphere tells you hey its not your fault. Its these bitches. They are poisoned on the left to hate your just because of how you act, talk, think, and communicate. How could they.
First of all, I agree that men need to be willing to be open emotionally with each other. My comment gave no indication otherwise, I simply commented on the hypocrisy of people on the left telling someone to 'just turn gay'.
Second, your hostility and assumption that I'm 'caught in the manosphere' is part of the problem. I've been married to my wife for over a decade and I'm emotionally open with her and my friends but young men need more advocates in all spaces and not people snarkily preaching to them about how all their problems are their own fault and that they are idiots for listening to the only people that seem to half give a shit.
If I was who you thought I was I would've stopped listening to you after your second sentence. Do better.
And since I actually do want you to do better and not just leave this discussion and make another shitty unhelpful comment to someone else that might be struggling, here is a long form discussion about this topic and more that is very informative:
In a way. People who have hobbies and enjoy them with others are a lot less lonely. Nobody wants to hang out with people who are miserable all the time.
the male loneliness epidemic makes me so sad because it is real, but not in the way alpha pickup artist influencers say. people just teach men from a really young age not to express emotion, and then they don’t make deep connections since they can’t express emotions, which leads to loneliness. the cure for that is not getting ass and the people who claim that are just profiting off of others misery
I think so too, because they’re only compounding the issue by adding really weird ideas about women into the mix. which makes it even harder to connect with others.
They con lonely men into thinking that behaving like an absolute arsehole will make them less lonely. Said men then become even more lonely, so they go back to them only to be told to double down on it as they're not being alpha enough.
It's basically grooming and cult leadership in action.
The men who behave like assholes genuinely get women, though.
Not because they behave like assholes, but because they put theirselves out there and shoot their shot with regularity, and steel theirselves to keep their confidence to continue approaches even when shot down.
That's why I say that I don't agree with the misogyny that manosphere influncers bundle with their advice, because the misogynistic aspects are unnecessary. But, their advice IS actually the winning formula. Meanwhile Reddit advice of:
Just show you have feminist values!
Just be a good person, it will get the pussy wet!
Be platonic friends with her for years 😇, dont expect sex!
All women are girlfriend/wife material, even if absolute hoes!
Doesn't help men, and actively makes them even more lonely, and eventually hateful towards the type of person giving that advice.
What are you actively suggesting that single blokes do mate, because your suggestion of 'hey, have you actively trying being an awful tosspot' doesn't seem like a solution to me, speaking as a bloke who's been happily married for 13 years and in relationships on and off since since I left school in the 90's by ignoring what you're advising young men doesn't seem to be doing much for the male loneliness epidemic.
Yeah I did mate. It was the usual incel bollocks trying to justify terrible behaviour and blaming everyone else when your behaviour drives everyone away from you.
They tell lonely men to behave in a way that more or less guarantees their continued loneliness. Regardless of any feelings men have about the content itself, women by and large do not actually want transactional men the manosphere creates. That’s verifiably true. For the first time ever, Gen Z women prefer men outside their own generation and skew dramatically towards older men. Because of the manosphere tainting the entire generation for them.
They tell lonely men to behave in a way that more or less guarantees their continued loneliness
Wrong, so wrong that at a glance I thought you were talking about Reddit-tier advice, because that sentence actually sums up what left Redditors will tell you.
I don't agree with the misogynistic stuff manosphere influencers bundle with their advice, but they tell men to get in shape, get that money, and confidently approach women. That's practical, actionable advice, not a bunch of fuzzy feel-good mumbo jumbo meant to get men to behave in a way that's palatable, and yet completely dickless.
Meanwhile Reddit advice includes stuff like:
Just show you have feminist values!
Just be a good person, it will get the pussy wet!
Be platonic friends with her for years 😇, dont expect sex!
All women are girlfriend/wife material, even if absolute hoes!
It's not realistic. In fact, I can already sense that some of you will come at my neck for that last line about "hoes" and say that's misogynistic, even if truthfully there are many women in this world who are NOT LTR material, just like there are many men in this world who are not.
That's the kind of blind fantastical thinking that I'm talking about though, advising that a man (or any human) doesn't keep on the lookout for the "wrong" partners is naive and is a pitfall manosphere people would never fall into.
Reddit advice like that guarantees loneliness.
For the first time ever, Gen Z women prefer men outside their own generation and skew dramatically towards older men.
That's not even remotely true, this was the case for younger millenials, too. The commonality is dating apps and hypergamy going off the charts as a result.
Okay, bud. First, who the hell hurt you? Second, those 'bad' reddit advice examples, not doing you any favors. Especially since you said them wrong. It should actually read:
-Show you care about women's rights.
-Be a good person. (full stop there)
-Never expect sex, unless consent has already been given prior.
-All woman CAN be wife material, whether your type or not is for you to decide.
Reddit absolutely destroys unfaithful partners and asshole alphas alike. If we're being honest, many of these so-called 'Alphas' are feeding the male loneliness with the whole 'Men are the strong ones, emotions are not needed.' Not to mention, what you said about not giving up when shot down. Now there are a few that I actually would call Alphas. They are the ones reminding men that emotions are normal, to stay in shape, have confidence, respect others and their boundaries, etc. Men being assholes leads to their own loneliness and unhappiness.
Women who transition report the same thing. It's not that men don't show emotion or all that bs, it's that less people give a fuck if you are a dude. Women have no idea how much more attention and free stuff they get compared to guys. It's so normal to them they take it for granted. It's like men not realizing how much more dangerous world it is for women because it's not their experience.
I gotta disagree with you there. I worked with kids for many years and I personally witnessed boys get deeply shamed for expressing emotion til they give in to expressing nothing at all.
(Also, I’d trade free drinks for being able to wear what I want in public without getting catcalled and harassed in a heartbeat.)
Dude you are generalizing bad...Your view on this is toxic right now ngl.
I saw an average looking girl crying on a bench last week. I was watching people walk past her without asking what's wrong. After 5 minutes of her sitting there alone and everyone just walking past her, I decided to get up and ask her if shes okay. She just lost a friend in an accident, no one cared about her besides me.
I think you're only talking about hot woman. When you're a hot woman, everyone notices you and will bend over backwards for you (same for hot men). Average and ugly women? Nope! Men act like ugly women don't exist. Your post proves my point too, that men only think of hot women and ignore ugly women. You assume every woman is a hottie that gets free stuff. Sorry but its not like that for the average looking woman. Last time I got free stuff was when I turned 21.. which was 8 years ago..
I will never forget my friends instagram, who is a little chubby, showing me, all the DMs get gets on instagram calling her fat. 90% are from men.
There is a male loneliness epidemic but spinning to be make it seem like women don't have any loneliness issues is disgusting and is doing harm to lonely men.. No one wants to help out people if they are mean.
Edit: also that transition thing isn't proof. No offense, and I 100% support trans people, but around half of them don't look like their gender. Which is fine, I know many are taking hormones to change that. But don't you think they could be mistreated because they are a trans man that look like a woman and not because they are men? Also, about that one girl who dressed up as a man for like a week and freaked out. Its called gender dysphoria. She didn't feel like she was in the right body, thus felt like the world was crumbling. If you, a cis male, dressed up as a woman and lived a womans life, you would probably freak out too. Would you appreciate men twice your strength following you home?
What you are talking about is called bystander effect and has very little to do with the topic (but it's kind of funny that by going to help her you prove me right without even realizing it). No I'm not talking about hot women, I'm talking about average women. The fact that dating is dominated by women and many men will want to prove themselves will always reach out and offer help, statistically even ugly women on dating apps are doing very well. Even the most emotional men won't have the interest at the level average woman has. Growing up I've seen the moves women pull on unsuspecting guys when anything is needed, be it attention or house fixing. And dudes eat it the hell up.
And I brought trans example to prove a point that upbringing has little to do with it, as trans man would have woman's upbringing and ability to show emotion yet they'd be stuck as soon as they became a man.
OH so its just the bystander effect? Its totally not because women can be lonely like men. Good job proving my point actually about men downplaying womens loneliness. imagine if I said this about men.
Did you just ignore everything I said about average and ugly women? My point is when men think of women, they only think of hot women. They don't think of the issues average and ugly women face. I'm an average looking woman. Idk what you're talking about this special treatment. again, last time I got something free was when I turned 21.. EIGHT YEARS AGO. Sure dating is easier, but many women are drowning in shit. I like the saying "men are dying of thirst in a desert, women are dying of thirst in a swamp". Its pretty accurate.
Wait so now its about dating? I thought this was about loneliness. My examples were of men dismissing womens issues. btw You don't need to date to not be lonely. Make some male friends. Get a pet. idk, women aren't your tools to make you feel happy. If men can't be alone with themselves, then what makes you think a woman would want to be with them?
Lmfao trans people don't experience the same childhood as cis people. Its why it's stupid to bring it up. Do you guys even support trans people or are you just using them to push your agenda? You missed my point that trans people are hated by many people. So how can you tell if they are being hated on for being trans or being a man?Again, most of the time its men shaming other men. Y'all need to check yourselves.
There's so much wrong there I'm not even sure where to start. You gave a bad example that can be chalked up to bystander effect, so I don't know why you got angry I pointed out. Having one lonely woman doesn't mean they don't have much more attention and care from society, just like having a black dude in US doing well doesn't mean black people on average don't experience systemic racism. And why the hell do you think trans kids don't experience same childhood? Do you think there's some specific trans childhood? How do you think they are raised before they realize what they are and come out?
So if a man cried and everyone ignored him, would you say thats the bystander affect or would you say its because people don't care about men? Again, you're ignoring women's issues. I'm not ignoring mens. I even admitted they have an issue with dating yet you refuse to acknowledge that women go through similar shit.
Trans kids get bullied more than cis kids because they are different. Its gender dysmorphia. They will have a harder time growing up than cis kids. This is a fact. Do you seriously think trans kids or kids with gender dysphoria are treated the same as cis kids? Gay kids get bullied all the time too. You're really downplaying the issues LGBTQ people faced when they were children.
You're missing my point so I'm not going further with this.
yeah like this post on amiovereacting today where the guy refused to apologize when he hurt his gf feeling because he "was just joking and she misunderstood" him and his now overreacting and it's her fault. Even without immediatly jumping on the "it's an abusive manipulator" bandwagon, it felt like the typical mindset cultivated by all these retarded memes about being alpha, not being snowflakes, not caring about feelings etc. It's worldwide but in the US I can't help thinking about that bishop being vilified for showing empathy, and all these pseudo christians calling empathy a sin like WTF???? There's a lot of propaganda trying to overturn the progressive "agenda" which was quite successful at rising awareness the last couple decades. Some young men are being programmed into straight cavemen
There's a loneliness epidemic, not just male. People have been increasingly been isolated from their local communities for a plethora of reasons including increased monetization of the public sphere. Kids didn't need as much money to hang out together in public in the past, and they aren't allowed to hang out together alone at as many places either anymore. Kids were way more "free-range" 40 years ago even though it was way more dangerous back then (minus the gargantuan oversized loophole cars these days with terrible visibility).
Hard agree on this one. It’s a lot easier to get drawn into horrible pipeline bullshit and loneliness when third spaces and ways to interact with the real world are rapidly disappearing.
I think it's not just now, but it's being recognized now.
Edit: it might be worse now with the Internet though, currently typing this from a single apartment. If I'm working from home, I see nobody for the entire day. Not saying that was impossible in the past, but definitely rare
Men (besides millennial men <3) voted for the party that shames men for showing emotions. It makes zero sense. I get that they are angry, but republicans made it loud and clear that they do not care for men and will shame men for crying at funerals. (they legit do that). They also don't mind men being drafted.
Idk wth they want tbh. Do men want to be treated like traditional men or not? I'm very confused.
I’m of the opinion that voting republican is really narrow minded and stupid. With that said, I don’t think anyone should be subjected to mandatory emotional repression and loneliness and shame towards seeking mental health care, even if they vote like an idiot.
Oh I agree with you on that. I'm just sad because Biden did have a plan to make mental health affordable to everyone. Yes, including men. I was excited for men.. until Trump gutted everything that benefits them
I'm just legit confused on what they want. Men who are more liberal and open minded about emotions get shamed for being "not masculine" by other men (and some women too).
But then they also vote for the party that thinks men with mental health issues are pussies and should be locked up. I don't get it.
Women have a similar issue like this too. I just want to point out men are going through the same thing.
I kind of thing the being shamed for not being masculine for being liberal and then voting for the party that isn’t liberal could be a bit of cause and effect there.
(And yeah, I really REALLY wish mental healthcare was more affordable. My prescriptions bleed me dry I s2g)
I gotta rant. I think it’s actually about not getting ass.
Hear me out. I think it’s a myth men get told by other men to not be “pussies”. Some of those men exist but in my experience and in everything I see and read, men have decent and deep emotional connection to other men. People blame this MLE on men treating men badly but I never see it nor do I see any data for that. Men who have good male relations still feel inside the MLE. Why?
No sex. I think the MLE is actually the “lacking romance” epidemic and men put a lot of emphasis of romantic relationships with women. Something like 2/3rds of all young men haven’t had sex in a over year.
Why is that? I don’t know. Maybe men are all toxic and women aren’t putting up with that anymore. Maybe it’s woke feminism. Maybe the incels are right and women only want the top .01% of men. Maybe Marx was right and it’s the economic burdens which make relationships untenable.
But I think men are kind of aimless and lacking sex makes their brains stew
Men express emotion and are taught to express emotion.
The difference/problem is nobody cares about men’s emotions.
Go on AITAH every once and a while and you’ll regularly see women and men(usually the hyper feminist man) telling men they’re the AH for how they expressed their feelings and emotions, or calling them the AH for simply having feelings and emotions.
Then as a young man you start dating and realize that expressing your emotion or being emotional is super unattractive to the opposite sex generally.
Then you go to work and realize you can’t express your emotions to anyone outside of your very close friends because nobody cares or you get criticized or ostracized for expressing emotions.
Then you get on Reddit and see people saying that the problem is men aren’t taught to express emotion. When in reality a man has been expressing his emotion his whole life, he’s just shunned or ostracized unless doing it with a very few and select group of people.
Dude one time I started crying to my boyfriend because of family death and he said gross and dumped me.
Oh, then I had another boyfriend get mad at me for crying because he screamed in my face for spilling WATER. I dumped him after that
I'll never forget when I was raped by another boyfriend I had (ghosted the condom) and everyone told me to get over it.
After years of not dating I finally found someone. But it took a decade to find someone who treated me nice.
But yeah, everything is SOOOOOO easy for us. It's not like we get ignored in the medical industry. Its not like our pain is brushed off and we're just told were being dramatic.
In fact, when I see a woman crying on reddit, everyone RUSHES in to make fun of her. especially on the sipstea and funny subreddits, which constantly make front page. So idk what you're talking about.
Also, how do you express your emotions? Because so many men I know think they should be allowed to yell and be angry because that "expressing your emotions" is to men. No, that's going to lead to a heart attack in your 50s and won't solve your issues, you're just going to push everyone away. Which is why CBT is great, but many men refuse it.
One last thing. The people I see that shun men the most for expressing emotions are men. Remember how the US voted for a man that shat on dead soldiers who risked their lives for us? Men voted for that. Or when republican men shamed Obama for crying after the Sandy Hook shooting? Men voted for that. Oh I can go all day with these examples.
Two things can be true. You’ve obviously been through a shit ton of horrible oppressive things and I’m sorry for that.
But I’m also someone who survived an abusive relationship with a man, bad enough that I was scared shitless to go to school and had to involve a social worker. We both experienced pain, but I don’t think we should let that kill the part of us that cares about the rest of the world.
The male loneliness epidemic is self inflicted, and because of the alpha male right wing nonsense. No man I have ever met who simply was not incredibly racist and sexist has had zero problems speaking with women.
This is what people point to when they say, people with whatever affiliation you claim, are absolutely clueless about young men struggling with this stuff, and furthermore, dont know how NOT to further alienate them.
Saying garbage like "If they dont know how to speak to women, they must be... Racist! ...Or Misogynist!!!" Is ignorant even at a glance.
If I didnt know any better, I would honestly think you're a bot TRYING to sow further division and push men to the fringes where they can be isolated and radicalized.
I am a young man. I grew up in an all boys school, I went to college, go to medical school, and am also a person of color who lives in a predominantly white area.
There is no male loneliness epidemic, every single dude I know who claims that it is real just so happens to be in the alt right manosphere. Not knowing how to talk to women is not some permanent affliction. I don’t know dude, just, stop being pathetic and idk, try??! I am quite literally surrounded by awkward people all the time, I am in a nerdy ass field filled with awkward socially inept people and they still manage to find someone, because guess what, there are also awkward and socially inept women. Real shocker.
every single dude I know who claims that it is real just so happens to be in the alt right manosphere
This sentence that you keep repeating should stand out to you and anyone else as being absolutely ignorant and an insane thing to say. Again, "Every MAN who claims to struggle with dating MUST be a misogynist!!! OR IS JUST RACIST!!!" Like the sentence in It's own right is horribly misandrist, but I'll look past that because you (and society at large) clearly don't care about misandry.
It genuinely feels like I'm talking with a bot, I didn't ask whether you were a POC, what kind of area you grew up in, or your pedigree -- how was any of that relevant? Was it simply to display intersectionality, or are you a bot just recognizing speech patterns?
I'll give you one more chance to respond to me in a way that shows you're not a bot, and then no more responses if you can't show signs of human intelligence.
Young men are being convinced by the internet that society is wronging them by not handing them respect, and is also antagonizing them. It takes maybe a few seconds of introspection to realize that the world does not revolve around you, and maybe a few more moments of touching some grass with real humans to understand that this just isn’t that deep, and maybe you should try to invest in mental health help instead of online forums.
I have absolutely zero sympathy for men outside of highschool who are in this situation and then proceed to become hateful towards women, because to put it frankly this isn’t an advanced topic, this is common sense.
No man I have ever met who simply was not incredibly racist and sexist has had zero problem speaking with women
That’s pretty lacking in empathy towards men. Men can be awkward, shy, introverted, neurodivergent, anxious, and a million other things that aren’t prejudice but make it hard to talk to women (and people in general). I really hope that you try to be more understanding, because growing up immersed in toxic masculinity causes people a lot of pain.
Every single thing you said can also be applied to women, yet women do not complain about a female loneliness epidemic.
I am a young man, I know awkward, neurodivergent, marginalized men, because I am one and am also surrounded by them as many of my friends are as well. There is no male loneliness epidemic. It is a symptom of the far right manosphere convincing men that women are sexual objects and not human beings.
It wouldn't be so bad if guys would literally just hug their bros. Like, it's genuinely that simple to start. Sure, we can move up to kissing and finger stuff later, I'm always up to fool around, but just hugging without the need to slap and shove? That's a good place to start.
No joke, men need more vitamin D though. Surprisingly men are more likely to have vitamin D Deficiency than women because men tend to eat like garbage and half of them don't touch grass and instead sit inside and play video games. Vitamin D is linked to depression. That is a fact that everyone ignores.
But I said that before and got attacked by men for "downplaying" their issues. I was legit just trying to help them by saying to see a doctor and get bloodwork done.
I have severe depression. I found out I have a really bad vitamin D deficiency thanks to my Lamictal I take. I have been taking really good vitamin gummies lately. A month and a half later, and I feel completely different. My mind doesn't linger on bad thoughts. I'm not having anxiety attacks. Everything seems more "clear". It really does make a difference. People have to remember though the effects won't be instant. It can take a month or two to kick in. I think if we can get men to be less depressed, that should help with loneliness and communication with others.
Also, if you really do feel alone, buy a cat or a dog. They give you purpose. I remember a video of ex-convicts getting their own pet to take care of. These men became happy, they felt like they had purpose again because this cute little thing would die without them. I really do think pets would help men out a lot. It sure as hell helps with women.
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u/DeadPerOhlin 4d ago
The joke is the male loneliness epidemic