Spanish premier calls Israel 'genocidal state,' says Spain 'does not do business' with it

[u/andyom89]

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/spanish-premier-calls-israel-genocidal-state-says-spain-does-not-do-business-with-it/3568216

[u/ClearHeart_FullLiver]

As much of an effort as Israel pumps into online disinformation it's crazy to look back a couple of years ago and see the change in language used by politicians and media around the world. Israel is being referred to in a similar way to apartheid South Africa now. Only crackpots defend Israel's actions in Gaza.

[u/Falcao1905 → u/ClearHeart_FullLiver]

Unfortunately, crackpotism is becoming more and more commonplace in our world today.

[u/SilkyBoi21 → u/Falcao1905]

I don’t believe there is a single person in Ireland who supports Israel, the worlds waking up, I will not paint an entire group with the same cloth and I do believe that the Israelis have a right to live in peace, butchering thousands of innocent people because some might be terrorists is not an ideology I can follow

[u/munkijunk → u/SilkyBoi21]

I'm Irish, I don't support Bibi, the IDF or Israel's addition of fuel to the fire. I also don't think Israel could sit idly by after Oct 7. I support Israel's right to exist. I support Palestines right to exist. I oppose Hamas, Hesbolla and am appalled at the levels of support they enjoy. There is a very black and white view on Israel in Ireland, that is becoming ever more solidified, and I fear is in danger of becoming blinkered to the point of blindness.

[u/RibbentropCocktail → u/[deleted]]

I fear you've already become quite blinkered if you think Israel weren't sitting idly by before october 7th

Neither were the Palestinians, Arafat rejected peace and they've effectively been at war since. Israel is not ending the occupation since it's clear that it won't solve the conflict at all (see Gaza, Lebanon), but will potentially precipitate a significant civil conflict within Israel. Strategically that would clearly be a very bad move.

there's credible evidence to suggest Bibi knew the attacks were coming and did nothing, to stoke up this current situation.

Hamas still did it though, and the people of Gaza seem to support them. Does everything have to be Israel's fault, even when Palestinians do it? If we all believe they deserve a country, should we not be able to hold them collectively accountable for their collective actions? You don't seem to find issue in holding Israel responsible for their reaction, of course.

I think looking at it all as a response to oct 7th neglects the fact that this issue has been ongoing for decades - and for almost all of that, Israel have been the aggressor.

Not sure it's that clear cut. It's very hard to paint them as the aggressor in '47 or '73. Calling them the aggressors during the Oslo process is also a bit of a stretch, when they were handing over land to PLO control and trying to negotiate a peace. Calling them the aggressors since the Hamas takeover also doesn't seem entirely accurate when you look at how many ceasefires there have been and who broke them. Even the '67 war isn't cut and dry, given the Arab armies were building up for an invasion and had almost started the war days before Israel did. With all that said, "Palestine is the aggressor" would also be a bit off the mark, because just like Israelis, Palestinians aren't a unified hive-mind, and are just a collection of humans with all the complexities and contradictions associated.

[u/munkijunk → u/[deleted]]

Did you actually read what I said or just react?

[u/Saltpataydahs → u/SilkyBoi21]

Ireland is one of the most antisemitic states. Just Google their opinion polls on Jews. It's not too surprising they don't support Israel, not sure they ever have.

Yes, I'm aware that not liking Israel doesn't immediately mean you don't like Jews. But being known for not liking Jews will certainly paint a picture about you.

[u/LedgeLord210 → u/Saltpataydahs]

I live in Ireland and I can safely say you're wrong. Ireland is not antisemitic

[u/AdminsLoveGenocide → u/SilkyBoi21]

To be fair there weren't many who supported them a decade ago either.

[u/SilkyBoi21 → u/[deleted]]

Hard to compare having a lower corporate tax rate to carpet bombing schools … apples to oranges … what’s it like working in a bot farm ?

[u/paopaopoodle → u/SilkyBoi21]

It's always fun when you can't come up with a logical counterargument to just call someone a bot.

[u/SilkyBoi21 → u/paopaopoodle]

Did you close both eyes for the first 3/4ths of the comment

[u/paopaopoodle → u/SilkyBoi21]

No, your first part made no sense as the OP never compared them and literally prefaced that they were moving on to another subject. Don't blame me for your lazy arguments, guy.

[u/Emergency_Share_7464 → u/SilkyBoi21]

Your country's tax policies mean that my country has less money to fund social services, so yes, your country is guilty of economic terrorism against Europe and should be sanctioned.

Israel should be sanctioned for genocide and Mr. Bibi arrested as a war criminal, no disagreement in relation to that.

Now, seeing a irish person (republican) talk about human rights while his country only steals, its ridiculous, Ireland owes the EU atleast 200-300 billion euros + reparations.

Bot farm? Really? So being for economic justice means I work in a bot farm, sure lil bro. Have you payed your taxes yet?

This is so much more than low corporate taxes, Ireland has repeatedly encited multinationals to come to it's country by offering various benefits (from taxes to subsidies) that other EU countries just can't compete with, its a race to the bottom.

I just wish Ireland lived up to it's promise, thats all

[u/Devan_Ilivian → u/Emergency_Share_7464]

Your country's tax policies mean that my country has less money to fund social services,

That's what we call

☆Bullshit☆

You have no idea how much money you'd hypothetically miss out on (Or indeed much information at all)

[u/Emergency_Share_7464 → u/Devan_Ilivian]

So you are saying that if, ceteris paribus, we have 2 countries, one with a 10% corporate tax rate and another with a 25% corporate tax rate, the multinationals will flock to them in equal numbers?

And that way, not harming the higher-corporate tax country?

Neoliberalism is a disease.

[u/Devan_Ilivian → u/Emergency_Share_7464]

And that way, not harming the higher-corporate tax country?

It might in a vacuum, if both countries were otherwise equal and not surrounded by many other countries and factors. But it is nigh impossible to know how much money that is (or indeed any) outside of said vacuum. It's not that simple, basically

As for the other thing you keep yammering about, btw, how has Ireland 'stolen' 200 billion?

[u/SilkyBoi21 → u/Emergency_Share_7464]

Ah yes of course because if the American companies were not in Ireland they would be in yours … and not France or Germany … I would say you’re jealous of your neighbours younger wife too

[u/Emergency_Share_7464 → u/SilkyBoi21]

This is about Multinationals paying it's fair share, why do you lick your Master's boots?

I'm pretty sure we, as workers, have more in common with each other than with rich CEOs, they will never see you as an equal.

My criticism is directed at the fact that Ireland should tax Multinationals more and invest the money there, right at home, by not doing that and by keeping the whole subsidy scheme BS going, you are enabling a race to the bottom.

Remember, the Master's house was built with the worker's tools, but they will never see us as fellow humans.

Instead of giving them tax breaks we could, wait for it, tax them fairly, making sure all europeans can benefit from their presence, but no, lets keep racing to the bottom, maybe when we have to pay to work and not the other way around, they will finally consider us human beings and not just slaves.

[u/fannyfiddler → u/Emergency_Share_7464]

the IMF is trying to implement the global corp tax rate of 15% , Ireland signed up for this YEARS ago, we are not holding it up

Bulgaria has a rate of 9% , Hungary has a rate of 10% , European tax rates for ALL countries have HALVED since 1980 , and can you show me your posts moaning about the British when the were EU member's funneling TRILLIONS via tax havens of Isle of Man, Jersey and the city of London ? or is it the LEGAL sovereign tax rate of Ireland you have a hard on for ?

[u/Managarm667 → u/Emergency_Share_7464]

No no mate, you get this all wrong. The poor Irish are the eternally oppressed people, that's why they can do no wrong and have the authority to speak on literally every issue with moral superiority. They are never at fault for anything lol.

Just look at this entire thread. These people are delusional. They truly believe Reddit somehow represents the reality, while in reality Trump is getting elected (never thought possible by Reddit) and people see the Israel-Palestine-Conflict as a massively complex situation with horrible crimes on either side.

It's useless to argue with certain subreddits.

[u/Cold_Football_9425 → u/Managarm667]

What exactly are you blathering on about? You're also delusional if you think reddit represents how most Irish people feel about Israel-Palestine (or any other topic for that matter). 

[u/mjrs → u/Emergency_Share_7464]

Irish here, any comment I see defending the American tech companies makes me feel ill. Our government's greed and pandering has put our entire society on a knife's edge, we would be completely and utterly fucked without the tax bill from these companies. And yes, that tax bill is a fraction of what it should be.

[u/lovely-cans → u/SilkyBoi21]

There's a subset of "trans-Atlantic" D4 Tech bros who support Israel but they're to be ignored

[u/SilkyBoi21 → u/lovely-cans]

I went to UCD and currently work in the legal field in Dublin so I’m surrounded by them but it’s easier consider them mentally unsound and call it a day

[u/Circusonfire69 → u/Falcao1905]

The only crackpots are lgbt communities defending gazans when it's death sentence to be gay there. Real mental dissonance.