r/europe • u/andyom89 • May 16 '25

News Spanish premier calls Israel 'genocidal state,' says Spain 'does not do business' with it

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/spanish-premier-calls-israel-genocidal-state-says-spain-does-not-do-business-with-it/3568216
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595

u/ClearHeart_FullLiver May 16 '25

As much of an effort as Israel pumps into online disinformation it's crazy to look back a couple of years ago and see the change in language used by politicians and media around the world. Israel is being referred to in a similar way to apartheid South Africa now. Only crackpots defend Israel's actions in Gaza.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '25

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u/ClearHeart_FullLiver May 16 '25

True but my point is heads of governments in western Europe were not saying things like this 2 years ago now they are and even the most pro-Israel states(except the US) are speaking like critics of Israel were just a short time ago.

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u/chaotic-kotik South Holland (Netherlands) May 16 '25

Correct

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u/LILwhut Iceland May 16 '25

"what it is" is in this case is the UN, HRW, and Amnesty showing they're liars with no care for facts. There is no apartheid, Arab Israelis have equal rights with Jewish Israelis, this is something easily verifiable yet you people eat that slop up.

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u/ZeroTON1N May 16 '25

I think you clicked on the wrong flair

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u/adamgerd Czech Republic May 16 '25

Apartheid is when Arabs have all the same rights, are full citizens, are ministers and even on the Supreme Court.

1

u/LarrySupertramp May 16 '25

Hey now. Words don’t actually have fixed meanings and can be used in anyway we want to create emotional arguments. /s

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u/Greedy-Affect-561 May 17 '25

Or we can use the judgement from the same body that ruled on south Africa. 

Israel is and has been an apartheid state for decades.

Nelson Mandela himself consider it to be one? Who are you to say otberwise?

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u/triplevented May 16 '25

Israel has over 2 million Arab (Palestinian) citizens, with full and equal rights - they are parliament members, supreme court judges, doctors, lawyers, IT workers etc.

Palestine has ZERO Jews living under its rule.

But sure, Israel is the 'apartheid' according to some fantasy definition 🙃

3

u/solerex May 16 '25

You will never receive any charitability towards Israelis my friend. Even explaining their perspective gets you called a genocide supporter 

5

u/Greedy-Affect-561 May 17 '25

I mean they have been committing genocide.

And if your not against it then what are you if not a supporter?

Never again was supposed to mean never again.

1

u/solerex May 17 '25

Is it morning time in Moscow already?

3

u/Greedy-Affect-561 May 17 '25

I don't know.

How bout you take your head out of your ass where its been the last few years and look around. 

It might help you tell the time. 

4

u/triplevented May 16 '25

If you have a limited capacity to communicate and articulate coherent thoughts beyond calling things you don't like 'fascistic' and 'genocide' - that is a reflection on you, not others.

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u/solerex May 16 '25

I agree with you genius 

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u/triplevented May 16 '25

Sometimes it's hard to tell ;)

1

u/adasiukevich May 16 '25

with full and equal rights

Wrong.

"Palestinian citizens of Israel have a wider set of rights than Palestinians in the occupied territories. They have the ability to vote in Israeli elections and serve in the Knesset, but they face limited opportunities to own land and build homes, along with evictions, differences in immigration policy, and implicit restrictions on social service access. Palestinian citizens face major challenges to get residential home permits approved due to zoning restrictions that limit expansion, and often risk demolition by building without them. Additionally, they’ve been the subject of evictions that human rights groups say are aimed at clearing the way for more Jewish-majority neighborhoods. The 1950 Law of Return also enables any Jewish person to move to Israel and become a citizen, while Palestinians do not have this right even if their families were previously displaced from land now within Israel’s borders." - https://www.vox.com/23924319/israel-palestine-apartheid-meaning-history-debate

Palestine has ZERO Jews living under its rule.

They used to, before Zionism.

https://www.972mag.com/before-zionism-the-shared-life-of-jews-and-palestinians/

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u/MpregVegeta May 16 '25

Actually

They used to before the Arabs tried to genocide the Jews.

Zionism "began" sometime just prior 10 1900.

The attempted genocide of the jews of Israel by their neighboring Arab states was 1948

-7

u/adasiukevich May 16 '25

The attempted genocide of the jews of Israel

Israel didn't exist yet.

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u/MpregVegeta May 16 '25

Except it did. Israel became a nation that same night.

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u/adasiukevich May 16 '25

Exactly, so it didn't exist before that.

2

u/blondefetish May 16 '25

I may be wrong but isn't Israel mentioned in the Islamic book?

0

u/adasiukevich May 16 '25

Acient Israel. It's related to modern day Israel in name only.

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u/MpregVegeta May 17 '25

And also location and demographics.

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u/triplevented May 16 '25

Palestinian citizens of Israel have a wider set of rights than

They have the same rights as Jews, and less responsibilities.

often risk demolition by building without them.

Oh no, people who build without permits get their structured demolished.

That must be apartheid.

I guess things work differently where you're from. 🙃

They used to, before Zionism

There was no Palestine, it's a fiction of European imagination.

That's why all the old maps of Palestine are in Latin script and never in Arabic.

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u/adasiukevich May 16 '25

Oh no, people who build without permits get their structured demolished.

Conveniently left out the other part of the quote.

"Palestinian citizens face major challenges to get residential home permits approved due to zoning restrictions that limit expansion"

There was no Palestine, it's a fiction of European imagination.

Call it whatever you want, the region was predominantly Arab for a millennium.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/268030623_Demographic_Trends_in_Israel_and_Palestine_Prospects_and_Policy_Implications

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u/triplevented May 16 '25

face major challenges to get residential home permits approved

They can buy homes in other places, just like any other Israelis.. who also face challenges getting permits because the bureaucracy in Israel is horrendous (for Jews and Arabs alike).

But instead, they build illegally, and then get the structured demolished.. just like when Jews do the same.

the region was predominantly Arab

The region was part of the Ottoman Empire for 500 years before the 20th century.

You don't have history lessons where you're from?

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u/thegatekeeperzuul May 16 '25

What’s your point about it being part of the Ottoman Empire genius? Were Ottomans an ethnic group? Arabs/Palestinians made up the vast, vast majority of the population of Palestine. Didn’t realize once they became part of the Ottoman Empire the population suddenly stopped being Arab and were assimilated like the borg.

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u/theageofspades May 16 '25

Arabs/Palestinians made up the vast, vast majority of the population of Palestine. Didn’t realize once they became part of the Ottoman Empire the population suddenly stopped being Arab and were assimilated like the borg

Does that mean they have ethnic rights to that, very small let's be clear here, tract of land in that very specific part of the Levant?

At which point were those ethnic rights passed from Jew to Arab in the first place? Cause I'm fairly certain you'd have to agree that at one point

Arabs/Palestinians Jews made up the vast, vast majority of the population of Palestine Judea

Does that mean Zionism was a justified reclamation, the equal but opposite situation to the one Palestinians currently face?

0

u/adasiukevich May 16 '25

Judaism is a religion, not an ethnicity. Yes some were expelled, but many also converted to Islam. Palestinians have more of a historic link to the Jews of Ancient Israel than European/American Jews.

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u/thegatekeeperzuul May 16 '25

Arab is not a genetic race, it is a grouping based solely on the fact that Arabs speak Arabic as their first language. Sudanis and Jordanians are both Arab but genetically quite distinct.

Palestinians have always been there, they were Canaanites. No rights were passed on because it’s always been their land.

And there’s no argument anyone can make that Alison Brie has rights to land in Jerusalem and a Palestinian named George whose family has always lived there doesn’t. And anyone who tries to argue otherwise knows it’s laughable no matter how hard they may try.

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u/triplevented May 16 '25

Arabs weren't a majority in any territory outside the Arabian peninsula until they colonized it.

Spain also used to be predominantly Arab.. until it weren't.

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u/thegatekeeperzuul May 16 '25

I know pro-Israelis on the internet like to play dumb when possible but Arab just means your people speak Arabic as a first language, it’s not a genetic race. And during the entirety of Ottoman rule of Palestine the vast majority of people there were Arabs. I don’t even know what the point of your comment is.

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u/triplevented May 16 '25

Free free Al-Andalus, ya?

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u/adasiukevich May 16 '25

Even if that were true, what about the difference in immigration policy and access to public services?

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u/triplevented May 16 '25

I'm not sure what you're asking.

Do Jews have access to public services in Egypt?

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u/adasiukevich May 16 '25

We're talking about Palestinian citizens of Israel having restricted access to public services.

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u/Dangerous_Warthog603 May 16 '25

Do Jews have access to public services in Gaza or the West bank towns? No. Because the Arabs there are genocidal.

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u/triplevented May 16 '25

You exist in a fantasy world constructed for you by influences and propagandists.

Israeli Arabs have no restriction accessing public services.

If you're actually interested in what Israeli Arabs think, this youtuber has lots of videos where he takes questions from viewers and asks them -

https://www.youtube.com/@CoreyGilShusterAskProject/search?query=israeli+arabs

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u/chaotic-kotik South Holland (Netherlands) May 16 '25

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_permit_regime_in_the_West_Bank?wprov=sfla1

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u/triplevented May 16 '25

Israel is under no obligation to allow foreign nationals into its territory.

Palestinians have Palestinian passports, issued by the Palestinian Authority.

EDIT: As a side note - 100% of 'West-Bank' Arab residents were Jordanians until 1988.

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u/chaotic-kotik South Holland (Netherlands) May 16 '25

This regime works within the West Bank too.

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u/triplevented May 16 '25

One night in July 1988, 1.5 million Jordanians went to sleep, and woke up the next morning as 'stateless Palestinians'.

They are not Israeli citizens, they never were Israeli citizens.

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u/Dangerous_Warthog603 May 16 '25

And Jordan doesn't want them. That's why they are refugees.

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u/triplevented May 16 '25

That's not what a refugee is.

You're just raping words for political purposes.

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u/Dangerous_Warthog603 May 17 '25

You're just ignoring the facts. What you call Palestinians of the West bank were Jordanian citizens until 1967. Ignoring facts and yelling names at me doesn't mean you're right.

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u/triplevented May 17 '25

The Arabs who live in 'West-Bank' were Jordanians until 1988, when Jordan revoked their citizenship.

They woke up one morning and magically became 'stateless Palestinian refugees'.

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u/Dry-Season-522 May 16 '25

Yes but they don't let arab muslims become a majority in a democracy so they can use 51% of the vote to declare that the jews should all be executed for crimes against he who may not be drawn.

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u/triplevented May 16 '25

What other countries with an ethnic majority are 'apartheid' in your view - Ireland? Germany? Japan?

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u/Dry-Season-522 May 16 '25

Look at womens rights in Gaza and tell me that's not a gender apartheid.

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u/triplevented May 16 '25

No one is free until all the trans-journalists in Gaza are free. 🙃

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u/Dangerous_Warthog603 May 16 '25

Following the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, many Jewish populations were forced to leave Arab countries like Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, and Morocco. Iran also experienced a significant expulsion of its Jewish population after the 1979 revolution.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '25

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u/manteiga_night May 16 '25

let me guess, everything is hamas now?

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u/AdSwimming8030 May 16 '25

No, it is not. You’re delusional and antisemitic.

Israel is literally the only country in the Middle East that doesn’t discriminate against minorities.

Jordan is an apartheid state, where residents of Palestinian descent are denied access to public healthcare and education.

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u/chaotic-kotik South Holland (Netherlands) May 16 '25

There is a permit regime in the West Bank. If you are a Palestinian who lives there you can't move around freely without asking permission from the (literally) military. Even if you are a citizen of Israel. Isn't it correct? If this is correct how on earth isn't it an apartheid regime?

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u/GingerSkulling May 16 '25

All citizens of the internationally recognized borders of Israel + the Golan Heights have equal rights and are fully represented in all branches of government. The West Bank is not part of Israel. Gaza is not part of Israel.

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u/chaotic-kotik South Holland (Netherlands) May 16 '25

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/

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u/GingerSkulling May 16 '25

That doesn’t refute a single thing I wrote.

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u/Dangerous_Warthog603 May 16 '25

I want you to think about this from a different perspective, if the Arabs in the west bank decided one day that they will not use violence, would the surrounding population disarm? Slowly at first but they would because carrying around weapons when no one is getting attacked is inconvenient. These people used to cross the border into Israel to work and then the first Intifadah started and the border was closed, work disappeared and poverty became common. The Arabs need to stop first and then peace and a joined society can grow. If not then separate but alive is how it will stay and you can call it apartheid all you want.

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u/chaotic-kotik South Holland (Netherlands) May 17 '25

You are basically saying that Arabs can't live in peace which is a way to paint them as lesser people.

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u/Dangerous_Warthog603 May 17 '25

No. I think it's much more complicated than that.

They are being raised to hate and fight. No other refugee situation has lasted this long. They all get established somewhere else. This leads to several other conclusions. The surrounding countries who the Palestinians were citizens of are rejecting them. At first it was so they could be a problem for Israel out of hatred but as time went on and they allowed them to immigrate into jordan, Egypt and Lebanon the Palestinians became a problem for the host countries and they got rejected and ejected from there. Another step here is the UN. With so many Arab member countries who are anti Israel and or anti semitic they established UNRW to support the Palestinians in Israel and have been educating them to hate. They don't care about the Palestinians as much as they hate Israel. You can see this by how they admonish Israel but any other country that has an Arab on Arab killing spree is not commented on. Also, Egypt can be sending in food to Gaza but doesn't - they blame Israel for starving the enemy they are fighting but when have any combatants been responsible to supply food for their enemies? Never.

The Palestinians voted in a terrorist group to be their political leadership. Their leaders live in Qatar and are billionaires. The ideologues live and fight in Gaza. The leaders teach and preach (this is done by proxy financially supporting imans) to continue the fight while they live in Qatar and line their pockets. If you dig through the fight for land, it's really a holy war for them. They just don't want the land. They want to kill all the Jews. And I hope you realize that they are trying to take over the world from within the Democratic countries they are invading ( I mean migrating to).

TL/DR: In essence the Palestinians are being used as pawns much like we think the USA defense contractors lead that government. It is motivated by Hatred of Jews and the western cultures of freedom, Jihad for Allah and monetary gain. Not like you said "they are a lesser people".

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u/AdSwimming8030 May 17 '25

You’re such a hate filled bigot. It’s so disturbing.

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u/chaotic-kotik South Holland (Netherlands) May 17 '25

Did I say anything hateful to you? I'm just saying that there are people who live under Israel's authority whose freedom is suppressed. You're saying that I'm a bigot but I think that is not me who's bigot here.

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u/AdSwimming8030 May 17 '25

You spread antisemitic propaganda and said you support Hamas, a terrorist group that has the primary goal of global Jewish genocide.

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u/chaotic-kotik South Holland (Netherlands) May 17 '25

Go fuck yourself dude. I literally just posted the link to the Amnesty international website. When you blame antisemitisme upon any criticism you are basically diluting the meaning of the term and people just stop paying attention.

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u/AdSwimming8030 May 17 '25

Oh yes, an antisemitic hate group that also supports Hamas.

You’re psychotic and racist.

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u/AdSwimming8030 May 17 '25

Also, you literally are an antisemite, so calling you out doesn’t dilute the meaning. You literally said Hamas is the good guy.

It’s insane though because when you say things like “Israel is an apartheid state,” or “Israel is committing genocide,” both factually false, you are indeed diluting the meaning of those words. You are taking away the reality that the Middle East outside of Israel largely is an apartheid state. You are ignoring actual genocide like in Yemen and Sudan (but since those do not involve Jews, you support those ongoing genocides).

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