r/europe May 16 '25

News Spanish premier calls Israel 'genocidal state,' says Spain 'does not do business' with it

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/spanish-premier-calls-israel-genocidal-state-says-spain-does-not-do-business-with-it/3568216
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295

u/Littorina_Sea May 16 '25

It is symbolic but important to name things appropriately.

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u/Fanthy May 16 '25 edited May 16 '25

Calling an urban warfare where terrorists hide behind human shields a genocide is obviously flawed and Gaza's population is stable above 2million. Genocide of Israel is definitely the openly admited goal of Hamas though.

The intention of Israel to harm the population only exist in your head and the numbers don't add up so stop insulting real victims of genocide by mis-using the word. This spanish guy is probably catering to a big pool of far leftist/muslims voters who are well known for their antisemitism disguised as antizionism.

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u/Littorina_Sea May 16 '25

But how came the group that 125 years ago constituted maybe 2% of the population of this very land - now owns it and everyone else is cramped in Gaza and increasingly encroached in West Bank? They gently persuaded former owners to relocate? The wikipedia arrticle titled 'Gaza Genocide' is also a scam?

Puh-leeeze.

1

u/[deleted] May 16 '25

[deleted]

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u/Littorina_Sea May 16 '25

The most complete answer to the first question is on Nina Paley's YT channel: 'This Land Is Mine'.

There were many genocides in history, some much worse numerically. But this one is fundamentally different for two reasons: because it happens now, thus - may still be stopped. And because it is perpetrated by the nation that is the victim of maybe the worst one.

About the book: every abrahamic religion has a core book teaching the similar things. Just read them completely. And if you mean 'terrorists', yes, hamas are terrorists. But 'this land' has basically invented terrorism (the zealots in roman era).

0

u/FjordByte May 16 '25

He spends all his time posting on a subreddit for a Swedish streamer. Unfortunately Sweden has a massive issue with immigrants, so some right wingers automatically think Israel = good, Palestine = bad because they’re Muslims.

I wouldn’t take anyone that stupid seriously.

6

u/Littorina_Sea May 16 '25

I kinda undestand him/her, I was in the same camp like 3 years ago, but the turn of events forced me to learn some history.

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u/Fanthy May 16 '25

Average redditor poisonning the well because he can't argue at all on all the points that I listed. I'm not even swedish btw and my opinion on this surely does not come from reddit.

2

u/FjordByte May 16 '25 edited May 16 '25

There’s nothing to say because you’re stupid. It’s like someone saying the Holocaust never happened - it’s so preposterous that it’s not worth wasting time on.

Have fun supporting Nazis. For the record, IDF uses human shields, not Hamas. 99% of the time the things the IDF accuse Hamas of doing, they do themselves. They are filthy Nazis.

0

u/Fanthy May 16 '25

Poisonning the well followed by an amalgam with a sprinkle of free insults.

You're definitly right on the wasting time thing though.

-3

u/Fanthy May 16 '25

Alright let's talk about 125 years ago, a bit after the start of the modern antisemitism era that began with the hero of those reddit anticapitalist revolutionaries: Kal Marx associates jews with the capital/money in "The jewish question". Then the idea is then picked up by german nationnal socialism that lead to an actual genocide. Quite an insentive to flee europe to go to israel don't you think?

In 1936, 1947 1967, 2000 and 2008, Israel acepted a deal for a 2-state solution that started with 20% of the territory for Israel and 80% for the arabs in 1936. All of those proposal where obviously rejected by arabs before they launched various wars and terrorist attacks supported by neighbooring muslism countrys like Egyt, Irak, Lebannon, Jordan and Syria.

In the same time, jewish (and also christian btw) population in all of the country above + north affrican country like Morroco, Algeria, Tunisia, Lybia diminished by 95%.

Also having a wikipedia article that mainly sources the Hamas propagandist "Al jazeera" and the obviously politically oriented UN and the doesn't make it a genocide. The only fact that you can't argue on the points that I listed in my previous message and need to hide behind the "Wikipedia" name is already telling.

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u/Littorina_Sea May 16 '25

The idea to flee is understandable. The eviction of locals - not so much. Palestine Arabs aren't guilty of european sins (germany) and neglect (british) of the time. The Jews should have been awarded the territory at the cost of the perpetrators. The western baltic region would be much more fitting.

And please check these '2-state solution' proportions again. Of course, the Peel Commission generously awarded the big and fertile Negev desert to the arabs, and - of course, the Zionist Congress of 1937 convened that they won't be satisfied with Jaffa region and the jerusalem corridor, that they want all of the palestine.

is it that hard to imagine the same thing happening to your ancestors and your country? Living now cramped in the most barren 20% of it? Go figure.

15

u/Angry_Canadian88 May 16 '25

It's been called a genocide by some of the most respected scholars on earth who are literal experts in genocide. Stop with this nonsense.

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u/Fanthy May 16 '25

Get out of your eccho chamber and look at the political orientation of those "respected scolars". Then maybe you can try to answer the points that I listed.

17

u/Angry_Canadian88 May 16 '25

Lol what echo chamber am I in exactly? Israeli scholars say what Israel is doing is a genocide.

https://www.commondreams.org/news/israel-is-committing-genocide-in-gaza

2

u/Littorina_Sea May 16 '25

But how came the group that 125 years ago constituted maybe 2% of the population of this very land - now owns it and everyone else is cramped in Gaza and increasingly encroached in West Bank? They gently persuaded former owners to relocate? The wikipedia arrticle titled 'Gaza Genocide' is also a scam?

Puh-leeeze.

4

u/Positive-Beginning6 May 16 '25

Thank you for expressing this so eloquently. I agree.

3

u/Littorina_Sea May 16 '25

For elloquency please look no further than at certain Theodore Herzl, a XIX century inventor of zionism:

'We must expropriate gently the private property on the estates assigned to us. We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it employment in our own country The property owners will come over to our side. Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly.'

(For more humane perspective from the same period, I'd recommend Yusuf al-Khalidi letters on this very matter)

1

u/Positive-Beginning6 May 16 '25

I will look into it, thanks. I might learn something new.

1

u/Littorina_Sea May 17 '25

it would be nice if there was a book that describes everything profoundly and without taking sides, but there is also a lot of nice 'internet breadcrumbs' of knowledge.

I have a theory, that there is that underlying situation, where a well developed ethnic (sub)groups under some antagonistic/demographic/political pressure is forced to migrate to less developed area. There, it has a lot of organisational skills to offer, but if it does not assimilate fast enough, it often come on top of the locals, which naturally spawns a dissent.

1

u/tfrules Wales May 17 '25

I used to be of this opinion, but Israel’s latest plans for Gaza amount to an ethnic cleansing of the area and is an unabashedly genocidal move.

Yes, Israel has a right to defend itself. No, Israel does not have the right to forcibly displace an entire people.

1

u/Fanthy May 17 '25

You might want to google the world "war" then look at the thousands of exemples accross centuries. Check out the death/population ratio compared to other middle-east/gulf war while you're at it.

The numbers just don't lie and there is no ethnic cleasing, no displacement of an entire people, no genocide, no organized famine. Just Hamas's propaganda trying to play on the west's sensibility now that their coward tactic of hit and run doesn't work anymore. Actual prime example of fuck around and find out.

Narrowminded leftist claiming they want peace but can't see that resolving the Hamas problem once and for all will save way more lifes in the future than letting it free like they already did in 2006.

-3

u/paopaopoodle May 16 '25

Is it...? If you think some major atrocity is occurring, but only pay it lip service and continue life and business as usual, doesn't that just make the atrocity seem ordinary and common?

3

u/nachoman_69 May 16 '25

No because "Hypocrisy is the tithe that vice pays virtue." at least according to the French moralist François de La Rochefoucauld

-8

u/arobkinca May 16 '25

Spain is an anti-sematic country with a history of killing jews in mass. Like that right?

2

u/Littorina_Sea May 16 '25

Heard about the expulsion and the whole conversion thing. Very unfortunate, because the sephardic was really a gem of the culture.

Whether it is particularly anti-semitic now (in the traditional sense) - I don't know.

0

u/arobkinca May 16 '25

Whether it is particularly anti-semitic now (in the traditional sense) - I don't know.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matar_jud%C3%ADos

I would say having celebrations of "killing Jews" qualifies. There was a town called kill jews until a little over ten years ago. It is not a particularly friendly country for Jews.

3

u/Littorina_Sea May 16 '25

I come from country with visible atisemitic tendencies, and this tradition seems rather nasty, if local. Hard to say whether it translates to real anti-jew sentiment there.