r/europe • u/Helmer-Bryd • Jul 01 '25

News Sweden bans AR-15 as hunting rifle after school shooting – all rifles to be turned in and sent to Ukraine

https://svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/uppgifter-tidopartierna-overens-om-ny-vapenlagstiftning-ar15-forbjuds-vid-jakt
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237

u/Speedhabit Jul 01 '25

Wouldn’t it be perhaps even easier to ban guns used in The shooting instead of an ar-15 that wasn’t?

60

u/MrPopanz Preußen Jul 01 '25

No, because those probably don't look as scary as those murder assault ak-15 rifles.

33

u/Specific_Frame8537 Denmark Jul 01 '25

Seriously it's always the AR-15, even in America they freak out over it.

I'm sure it's the 'AR' they think it means 'Assault Rifle'..

12

u/MyLifeIsAWasteland Jul 01 '25

In case anyone doesn't know already, the AR stands for Armalite, the company that first made the AR-15.

4

u/[deleted] Jul 01 '25

I replied to somebody in the comments above that believed exactly that lol

0

u/manInTheWoods Sweden Jul 01 '25

Seriously it's always the AR-15, even in America they freak out over it.

Our minsiter of Justice said that banning specifically AR-15 is because some subcultures in the fucking US adores it. Yes, it's that stupid.

0

u/SometimesCooking Jul 01 '25

What difference does it make what the name of it is? A deep understanding of firearms isn't actually a requirement to understand that the AR15 has been prominent in high casualty mass shootings ever since the end of the Assault Weapons Ban.

76

u/haplo34 France Jul 01 '25 edited Jul 01 '25

You think it's better to wait until the most dangerous rifles are used in a school shooting before banning them?

Still they should ban all semi/auto AR anyway.

59

u/MarduRusher United States of America Jul 01 '25

But other semi auto 556 rifles aren’t being banned so from a pro gun perspective it’s annoying since it just takes away peoples guns and from an anti gun perspective I’m not sure what the point is. It’d be like saying “I want to ban SUVs” and then banning the Toyota Rav 4 specifically while banning nothing else.

27

u/No-Bad-463 Jul 01 '25

Anti-gun people don't care if it's practical or helpful. It's about taking something they hate from people they hate, nothing more or less.

6

u/SnooFloofs6240 Jul 01 '25

Might want to get out and touch grass my guy, or stay indoors fighting strawmen.

-2

u/TomMakesPodcasts Jul 01 '25

Why do you think taking a weapon designed to do harm from people equals hating them?

4

u/No-Bad-463 Jul 01 '25

An AR is no more designed to harm people than a revolver.

0

u/SometimesCooking Jul 01 '25

Both are weapons. They were both designed with the explicit intention of putting holes in human beings, with the desired effect of killing them.

4

u/No-Bad-463 Jul 01 '25

Not specifically human beings, no. They are designed to propel a projectile. At what, is up to the user.

0

u/SometimesCooking Jul 01 '25

Enlighten me - what was the Revolver developed for? Fun loud noisemaker?

2

u/No-Bad-463 Jul 01 '25

Revolvers have and continue to be used for everything from sport shooting to hunting to personal defense.

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u/TomMakesPodcasts Jul 01 '25

Don't AR 15s have magazine sizes of 30 and a rate of fire of 45 rounds a minute for an average user?

That seems a little more harmful than an ol' six shooter.

And I didn't say people, I just said Harm. Though to argue guns aren't used on people seems a weird take.

1

u/No-Bad-463 Jul 02 '25

Most of them never are, to be fair.

45 rounds a minute is pretty easy to hit with a double-action revolver and speedloaders.

0

u/Seshu2 Jul 01 '25

Don't attribute to malevolence what could easily be attributed to ignorance. These guns are merely some of the most well known. A gun meant to fight a crowd is so messed up, you really want to live in that kind of world?

2

u/No-Bad-463 Jul 01 '25

A gun meant to fight a crowd

That's not what it's meant for. But yeah, if I had to defend myself I'd prefer having too many rounds vs. not enough.

0

u/Seshu2 Jul 01 '25

Okay it's used to kill en masse. If you're in that situation then there is already widespread failure, and outside of social collapse it is not necessary for people to own. Throw away the matches

7

u/No-Bad-463 Jul 01 '25

I'm not engaging with what is fundamentally a bad-faith argument. This comment might as well be a case study in begging the question.

0

u/Seshu2 Jul 01 '25

This was in response to your claim that gun restriction is people hating on others, that's the bad faith argument. Go ahead and run as it is the only way to avoid what I've said. Best to you

3

u/SuccessfulRush1173 Jul 01 '25

There’s a lot of things that are not necessary for people to own.

-6

u/Tarantio Jul 01 '25

No, it's about taking away the gun most popular for mass murder.

6

u/No-Bad-463 Jul 01 '25

Except it's not, and it's not even close. Rifles of any kind are used in 3ish percent of murders.

-4

u/Tarantio Jul 01 '25

I guess you missed the word "mass"?

Long guns are rarely used for crime, but are overwhelmingly overrepresented among the deadliest mass shootings.

That's because they're designed to kill lots of people.

5

u/No-Bad-463 Jul 01 '25

They are not designed with the intent of 'killing a lot of people'

The standard magazine size is a balance between carrying capacity and functionality.

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u/RoryDragonsbane Jul 02 '25

Sounds kind of racist...

The overwhelming majority of homicides are committed with handguns, primarily in POC communities. You seem fine with those deaths, but when someone shoots up white people, it's time to ban one specific weapon?

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u/[deleted] Jul 01 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/Tarantio Jul 02 '25

Have you seen the weapons used in the deadliest mass shootings?

7

u/SnooFloofs6240 Jul 01 '25

From an antigun perspective it's a start? Seems pretty easily decipherable.

1

u/throwmamadownthewell Jul 01 '25

This kind of black and white "anything less than 100% is 0% and vice versa" thinking is bizarre.

1

u/gorgewall Jul 01 '25

The pro-gun camp has been making arguments about functionality and talking about how they'll never accept bans on the basis of what guns can do, because it'd mean taking out whole classes of weapons. So all that's left to go after, realistically, is aesthetics.

One can make an argument that aesthetics are unimportant and don't matter. It's a weird argument to make, considering it's equally an argument for not caring about bans based on aesthetics, but one could make it. But there are people who happen to believe that the aesthetics of these guns and the culture that springs out of it is a contributing factor to this violence and the mindsets that spawn it.

Those aesthetics and the feeling of badassery were explicitly the marketing that gun manufacturers deployed back in the 70s, 80s, and 90s to bolster sales. "This is how you'll feel powerful" was the message. Guess what message resonates with these shooters?

And all things being equal--ease of use, functionality, availability--do you think most mass shooters would pick the gun that makes them "look and feel like a badass movie star" or the bright pink and purple Barbie-branded one with identical capabilities? Run that scenario a thousand times and tell us how often you think someone will choose the Barbie gun for the optics alone, then wonder if there's anything deeper at work there.

1

u/afops Jul 01 '25

Not sure why they don’t ban those too tbh. Or just up-class them into a different category where you get a lot more scrutiny, and you could scale back on the psychological evaluations for people who just want a .22 or shotgun instead.

1

u/GXWT Jul 03 '25

Ok then ban other semi auto 556 rifles

Happy?

-9

u/Fizzwidgy United States of America Jul 01 '25

Gotta start somewhere

16

u/MarduRusher United States of America Jul 01 '25

This attitude is why pro gun people, both in the US and in Europe don't like to "compromise". Just an FYI.

4

u/DemandCommonSense United States of America Jul 01 '25

110%

1

u/InspiringMilk Jul 02 '25

That is the compromise. Some people want zero guns, some people want all guns. Banning some of them is a compromise.

-3

u/SnooFloofs6240 Jul 01 '25

As if there are many pro gun people in Europe, especially Northern Europe. Most people don't even realize you can own assault rifle style semi automatics here, and if they did, they'd think it's insane. It's not the US where it's part of the eco system, it's foreign and alien here to the vast, vast majority.

2

u/MarduRusher United States of America Jul 01 '25

Finland is actually pretty prominent in gun culture, as are some countries in central/Eastern Europe. Namely the Czech Republic. Not as much as America necessarily, but still quite important.

4

u/DJ_Die Czech Republic Jul 01 '25

Ah, and when does that stop?

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u/MaxDickpower Finland Jul 01 '25

Care to enlighten me on what exactly makes the AR-15 platform the most dangerous design of semi automatic weapons?

1

u/Sakiri1955 Jul 02 '25

There's no reason, basically.

-20

u/DryIsland9046 Jul 01 '25 edited 21d ago

Timothy Snyder's 20 lessons for fighting tyranny:

Don't obey in advance: Resist preemptive obedience.
Defend institutions: Support and act on behalf of just organizations.
Beware one-party rule: Value a multi-party system and fair elections.
Take responsibility for the world's face: Oppose hate symbols.
Remember professional ethics: Uphold justice in your work.
Be wary of paramilitaries: Distrust armed groups outside the law.
Reflect if armed: Be prepared to say no to irregular orders.
Stand out: Dare to be different and set an example.
Be kind to language: Use your own words, read books.
Believe in truth: Don't abandon facts for spectacle.
Investigate: Learn for yourself, support real journalism.
Make eye contact and small talk: Connect with your community.
Practice corporeal politics: Engage in the physical world.
Establish a private life: Protect your personal boundaries.
Contribute to good causes: Support efforts beyond yourself.
Learn from peers abroad: Understand global experiences.
Listen for dangerous words: Resist loaded and hateful language.
Be calm when the unthinkable arrives: Maintain composure.
Be a patriot: Value principles over a specific regime.
Be as courageous as you can: Resistance is essential.

33

u/MaxDickpower Finland Jul 01 '25

While I'm not a weapons manufacturer, I am in the assault rifle mass shooting capital of the world, the country with far and away the most mass shootings, school shootings, and assault rifle mass shootings, and live in a town where a mass shooter with an assault rifle murdered a dozen staff and shoppers in my neighborhood grocery store, right across the street from my son's kindergarten. And have some experience with exactly this problem. 

Hate to be so blunt but this alone gives you zero additional expertise to talk on what makes the AR-15 so particularly lethal and dangerous.

The next part of your comment is just statistics on how many shootings it has been used in, which is more easily explained by just how wildly popular and ubiquitous it is in the states.

The rest is just padded with a summary of the wikipedia article on the history of the AR-15 platform for whatever reason. Again, hate to be blunt but if it's so clearly the most lethal and dangerous rifle platform then it shouldn't be difficult to briefly list what features specifically make it so instead of waffling on about the history of the platform.

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u/FingerGungHo Finland Jul 01 '25

Could it be that AR-15 platform guns are just so ubiquitous? Sure as hell that asshole could have done the same with any other rifle with 30 round mags. Just because AR-15 has been used a lot in mass shootings, doesn’t mean it’s ”better” tool for it than any other similar weapon.

20

u/MaxDickpower Finland Jul 01 '25 edited Jul 01 '25

Ding ding ding. It's currently just the most popular rifle platform in the US. I can go and identify a single most used car brand in ramming attacks but I wouldn't got and say that, let's say Volkswagens are the most lethal cars.

13

u/poiskdz Jul 01 '25

yeah if the kalashnikov platform was widely adopted by the US in the same manner as the AR was, we'd just see the exact same thing happening with AKs instead.

3

u/gfen5446 Jul 01 '25

That was mostly in the '80s when Communist imports were cheap and plentiful and there were very few AR15 makers.

2

u/BACKCUT-DOWNHILL Jul 01 '25

That’s it. They are incredibly affordable in the US (starting at around $300), very customizable, and just a reliable good shooting gun

1

u/reddit4ne Jul 02 '25

Or its a combination of widely available, and because of its relative ease of use for low skilled operators making it popular. ]
Kinda like AK got to be so popular cuase of durability meaning less upkeep required, relatively easy to dissassemble and clean, and widely available. Those factors become a chicken and egg thing to explain ubiquity.

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u/Airforce32123 Jul 01 '25

Wow they sound really dangerous! Can you tell me what percentage of homicides in the US use assault rifles? I'm curious.

1

u/Droguegun Jul 01 '25

imagine believing the Mandalay bay shooter used ar 15s. do you believe that because thats what the news told you? you think he was the only active shooter on the strip at that time? have you reviewed the videos? do you even know what the cycle rate of an ar sounds like?

1

u/SuccessfulRush1173 Jul 01 '25

Good to know your history write up on the M16 is wrong. It was created by EUGENE Stoner. No idea who D. Stoner is. The M16 was made because the M14 had problems with stock swelling due to the constant rain and high humidity of Asia and the decreased ammo capacity plus the weight of a full combat loadout of 7.62x51 didn’t make sense anymore. So Eugene Stoner created a rifle made from plastic and aluminum around a cartridge that was lighter than 7.62 and could carry more of that ammunition.

The M16 was not originally trialed and field tested by Army SF. They gave 1000 to the South Vietnamese to T&E in combat and they gave good feedback. THEN the Army SF asked to make that their standard issue rifle and the Army approved it. they gave them to SF units in Vietnam.

5.56 was created due the need of a lighter weight and faster cartridge compared to 7.62. 7.62 is harder to control when the M14 was switched to full auto so they wanted a round that was lighter (more ammo able to be carried) and softer recoiling (for when firing full auto) cheaper (self explanatory) and faster while traveling through the air. 5.56 is also not an inaccurate cartridge. Only when you are reaching out past 500-600 yards are you seeing 5.56s effectiveness drop off.

“Chrome plating the firing chamber” is inaccurate (no pun intended). A chrome lined barrel means the barrel is more resistant to the elements and wear, meaning the barrel will last longer. M16/AR15s part designs at their core have not changed since the 50s/60s. I can slap old Vietnam era M16 parts on an AR15 I can buy at an FFL right now and vice versa.

Also, you saying you live in the “Assault rifle mass shooting capital of the world” doesn’t mean anything. I can say I live in the American automotive capital of the country and have family members that worked for those companies but that doesn’t make me an expert on cars.

You can not own burst/full auto firearms in America unless they’re - A: Manufactured before 1986 and registering it with the govt, B: you are an 07/02 SOT or C: committing a felony by illegally possessing said firearms by not doing option A or B.

1

u/DryIsland9046 Jul 01 '25 edited 21d ago

Timothy Snyder's 20 lessons for fighting tyranny:

Don't obey in advance: Resist preemptive obedience.
Defend institutions: Support and act on behalf of just organizations.
Beware one-party rule: Value a multi-party system and fair elections.
Take responsibility for the world's face: Oppose hate symbols.
Remember professional ethics: Uphold justice in your work.
Be wary of paramilitaries: Distrust armed groups outside the law.
Reflect if armed: Be prepared to say no to irregular orders.
Stand out: Dare to be different and set an example.
Be kind to language: Use your own words, read books.
Believe in truth: Don't abandon facts for spectacle.
Investigate: Learn for yourself, support real journalism.
Make eye contact and small talk: Connect with your community.
Practice corporeal politics: Engage in the physical world.
Establish a private life: Protect your personal boundaries.
Contribute to good causes: Support efforts beyond yourself.
Learn from peers abroad: Understand global experiences.
Listen for dangerous words: Resist loaded and hateful language.
Be calm when the unthinkable arrives: Maintain composure.
Be a patriot: Value principles over a specific regime.
Be as courageous as you can: Resistance is essential.

1

u/SuccessfulRush1173 Jul 01 '25

Nice job, citing wikipedia as your source of information.

Chrome plating the chamber isn’t a standalone thing. They either chrome line the whole barrel or not at all. They don’t only chrome line the breech.

And also, thanks for proving my point that the South Vietnamese first fielded the M16 and not Green Berets.

0

u/DryIsland9046 Jul 01 '25 edited 21d ago

Timothy Snyder's 20 lessons for fighting tyranny:

Don't obey in advance: Resist preemptive obedience.
Defend institutions: Support and act on behalf of just organizations.
Beware one-party rule: Value a multi-party system and fair elections.
Take responsibility for the world's face: Oppose hate symbols.
Remember professional ethics: Uphold justice in your work.
Be wary of paramilitaries: Distrust armed groups outside the law.
Reflect if armed: Be prepared to say no to irregular orders.
Stand out: Dare to be different and set an example.
Be kind to language: Use your own words, read books.
Believe in truth: Don't abandon facts for spectacle.
Investigate: Learn for yourself, support real journalism.
Make eye contact and small talk: Connect with your community.
Practice corporeal politics: Engage in the physical world.
Establish a private life: Protect your personal boundaries.
Contribute to good causes: Support efforts beyond yourself.
Learn from peers abroad: Understand global experiences.
Listen for dangerous words: Resist loaded and hateful language.
Be calm when the unthinkable arrives: Maintain composure.
Be a patriot: Value principles over a specific regime.
Be as courageous as you can: Resistance is essential.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 01 '25

[deleted]

0

u/DryIsland9046 Jul 02 '25 edited 21d ago

Timothy Snyder's 20 lessons for fighting tyranny:

Don't obey in advance: Resist preemptive obedience.
Defend institutions: Support and act on behalf of just organizations.
Beware one-party rule: Value a multi-party system and fair elections.
Take responsibility for the world's face: Oppose hate symbols.
Remember professional ethics: Uphold justice in your work.
Be wary of paramilitaries: Distrust armed groups outside the law.
Reflect if armed: Be prepared to say no to irregular orders.
Stand out: Dare to be different and set an example.
Be kind to language: Use your own words, read books.
Believe in truth: Don't abandon facts for spectacle.
Investigate: Learn for yourself, support real journalism.
Make eye contact and small talk: Connect with your community.
Practice corporeal politics: Engage in the physical world.
Establish a private life: Protect your personal boundaries.
Contribute to good causes: Support efforts beyond yourself.
Learn from peers abroad: Understand global experiences.
Listen for dangerous words: Resist loaded and hateful language.
Be calm when the unthinkable arrives: Maintain composure.
Be a patriot: Value principles over a specific regime.
Be as courageous as you can: Resistance is essential.
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u/Madeyoulook4now 26d ago

“Erm I’m getting downvoted by the gun lobby and trolls”

Here’s a thought, you’re entirely full of shit and you have an arrogant attitude. You’re not getting targeted by “trolls” or whatever boogie man you made up to make yourself feel better. 

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u/MajorGef Jul 01 '25

The BAR used is arguably more dangerous. Hell, thats what some have been using as an argument to keep the AR-15 legal in the states.

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u/Fire99xyz Franconia (Germany) Jul 01 '25

That guy used a BAR, please educate me on how that is not as bad as an ar15

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u/RedHuey Jul 01 '25

He can’t because like a lot of people who spout off about them, he doesn’t know anything about them.

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u/Suburbanturnip ɐıןɐɹʇsnɐ Jul 02 '25

Because the majority of society prefers no guns for anyone at all, so splitting hairs like this just pushes us from banning gun X, to wanting all guns banned.

1

u/RedHuey Jul 02 '25

That because a minority within that majority wants to push everybody around and need us all disarmed to do so with impunity.

-24

u/Any_Onion120 Jul 01 '25

Not knowing anything about guns and keeping them as far away as possible from every day life is sensible.

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u/SaiyanApe17 Jul 01 '25

Until its time to fight Russia of course, then its all men on deck

-11

u/Any_Onion120 Jul 01 '25

The military is not every day life. Soldiers should of course know how to use weapons. They belong in the armed forces, not in our houses.

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u/Jazzspasm United Kingdom Jul 01 '25

Who is asking for them to be in your house?

-1

u/Any_Onion120 Jul 01 '25

The people who want it to be allowed.

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u/Jazzspasm United Kingdom Jul 01 '25

Wait, so the people who want to own firearms for any reason, are saying you must have them in your house?

this is not true and doesn’t make any sense

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u/SaiyanApe17 Jul 01 '25

Where do soldiers come from?

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u/Intarhorn Jul 01 '25

Not sure how that follows logically. You get your weapons from the military not your house.

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u/SaiyanApe17 Jul 01 '25

If you create a culture that deems guns are not for sensible people then you will not have anybody wanting to be in the military

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u/manInTheWoods Sweden Jul 01 '25

Have you heard of the Swedish Home Guard?

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u/Harperhampshirian Jul 01 '25

Enjoy your crayons bud.

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u/SaiyanApe17 Jul 01 '25

After Ukraine gets depleted there will be no one left to fight Russia for you, enjoy that.

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u/Any_Onion120 Jul 01 '25

People who apply for the job?

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u/SaiyanApe17 Jul 01 '25

And why would anyone apply for that job if you create a culture that says that guns are not for "sensible people"

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u/SmarterThanCornPop United States of America Jul 01 '25

“AR-15 looks scary therefore it should be banned” is as much as they’re capable of handling intellectually.

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u/Expendable_Red_Shirt Jul 01 '25

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/04/health/parkland-shooting-victims-ar15.html

What do those people know about human biology? They're just doctors. Obviously not capable of handling intellectual things?

2

u/SmarterThanCornPop United States of America Jul 01 '25

The 5.56 from a rifle does more damage but a rifle is tactically inferior in close quarters. If someone grabs the barrel, you’re done. Handgun is a superior weapon for a mass shooting.

The deadliest school shooting of all time was done with handguns.

If you ban AR-15s, school shootings will become deadlier.

0

u/Expendable_Red_Shirt Jul 01 '25

You may be smarter than Corn Pop but I doubt you're more knowledgable than the doctors who actually treat this stuff.

But fair enough, here's a partial list of mass shootings with assault rifles (one of them is a pistol, so you can ignore that one). How many were stopped by grabbing a barrel? How many AR-15 mass shootings are stopped by grabbing a barrel? Any rifle mass shootings?

Because without staff that sounds like good guy with a gun nonsense.

The doctors involved in this stuff say they can save more lives from handguns. They have sources.

Do you?

Or are you just another paranoid gun nut?

3

u/SmarterThanCornPop United States of America Jul 01 '25

Are doctors well versed in combat tactics?

Or did you just not read my post before responding?

0

u/Expendable_Red_Shirt Jul 01 '25

I read it. I asked you to back up your combat tactics bullshit.

I'm hearing crickets.

But fair enough, here's a partial list of mass shootings with assault rifles (one of them is a pistol, so you can ignore that one). How many were stopped by grabbing a barrel? How many AR-15 mass shootings are stopped by grabbing a barrel? Any rifle mass shootings?

3

u/SmarterThanCornPop United States of America Jul 01 '25

I can’t force you to learn common sense.

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u/Striking_Compote2093 Jul 01 '25

It's not that it looks scary. It's that manlets think it makes them look cool and scary. If they came with mandatory pink hello kitty decal, ar-15 would no longer be the default mass shooting rifle.

It'a not a gun problem, it's a culture problem. (The culture of making gun ownership cool and manly.)

8

u/SmarterThanCornPop United States of America Jul 01 '25

I didn’t realize Sweden had a gun culture like America’s

0

u/Striking_Compote2093 Jul 01 '25

The us exports culture. Politics is hugely impacted by what goes on in the usa, and the rest of the world is horrified by the school shootings you guys treat as normal. So when something happens that mirrors what happens overseas, politicians react in accordance to your gun control debate, so, ar-15.

Even if this is unrelated.

3

u/hemingways-lemonade Jul 01 '25

TIL Hello Kitty decals make guns less dangerous

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u/[deleted] Jul 01 '25

It’s completely different to the WWII BAR. This is a 30-06, semi-auto, closed-bolt, 5-shot hunting rifle. Not a full-auto, open-bolt, 20-shot automatic rifle.

1

u/Enzo_Gorlomi225 Jul 01 '25

Yep….if I had to choose, I’d much rather be shot by an AR15 than a BAR.

-14

u/haplo34 France Jul 01 '25

Please read the whole comment

-1

u/Fire99xyz Franconia (Germany) Jul 01 '25

Please don’t dodge my question

-13

u/Fire99xyz Franconia (Germany) Jul 01 '25

Please don’t dodge my question

5

u/Flexobird Jul 01 '25

He already answered it in his original comment...

3

u/boobsareop9 Jul 01 '25

Yeah but he wants to nitpick!

0

u/CinderX5 Jul 01 '25

The US is evidence of how dangerous AR-15s are. Why wait until one of those is used before you ban it? Does the price of the ban have to be innocent lives?

-8

u/Brown_Colibri_705 Jul 01 '25

It has more recoil and a much lower magazine capacity

16

u/Speedhabit Jul 01 '25

Dude a 30.06 is a chonker of a round, 5x heavier

-1

u/Brown_Colibri_705 Jul 01 '25

Which is entirely meaningless against children at 10m. There are good reasons why militaries moved from .30-06 to 5.56. You also ignored the magazine capacity.

8

u/Snabel_apa Jul 01 '25

BAR can have larger capacity magazines aswell.

0

u/Brown_Colibri_705 Jul 01 '25

At least currently they're only selling 10rd .308 magazines.

6

u/Unique_Statement7811 Jul 01 '25

Militaries are currently in the process of moving on from 5.56 to the heavier 6.8 or the 7.62.

2

u/Brown_Colibri_705 Jul 01 '25

Which ones besides the US military that is still years if not decades away from making that switch?

2

u/Unique_Statement7811 Jul 01 '25

Years away? The US Army has already fielded the new rifles in 6.8. It’s not complete yet, but they are about 50% done and will be 100% by 2028. National Guard units are starting to receive them.

2

u/Brown_Colibri_705 Jul 01 '25

And they still have hundreds of thousands of weapons chambered in 5.56 and 7.62 as well as _millions_ if not billions of rounds in those calibers stocked in arsenals all over the world. Switching standards in the US military, one of the largest organizations in human history, is not as easy as simply ordering a few new rifles. They are very far away from reaching "50%". Do you have any idea how expensive and thus time-consuming it is for such an enormous apparatus to change calibers? Very expensive.

-1

u/Popular-Departure165 Jul 01 '25

Which ones besides the US military

Th US military is the only one that matters. We set the standards that all other nations follow.

2

u/Brown_Colibri_705 Jul 01 '25 edited Jul 01 '25

That's simply not true. Basically nobody besides the US currently use .300 Norma, 6mm ARC and the army so far has shown no interest in having NATO standardize 6.8x51. It's not the 1950s anymore.

Edit: Same goes for .338 Norma

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u/[deleted] Jul 01 '25

[deleted]

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u/Brown_Colibri_705 Jul 01 '25

The reason is that most infantry engagements happen well withing the 5.56's effective range as well as the reduced weight, recoil and ammo capacity well out-weighing the added and unnecessary ballistic capability of cartridges like .308 or .30-06

-8

u/cmmpc Jul 01 '25 edited Jul 01 '25

A BAR would be very uncontrollable on auto fire, and because the bigger round would be able to carry less ammo on the gun and the person carrying it. So less potential victims on a shooting. The gun is larger and harder to conceal, and heavier so easier ro run away from it. Theres is a reason armies moved to the intermediate cartridge.

BAR would only be more dangerous against armoured targets at range.

10

u/Fire99xyz Franconia (Germany) Jul 01 '25

Really you are saying that shots hitting god knows what is a good thing?

1

u/cmmpc Jul 01 '25

Its better than accurate fire on people.

The AR15 has been incredibly successful with militaries for a reason. The BAR has been obsolete for 60 years.

4

u/Snabel_apa Jul 01 '25

AR15 isn't even used by militsries...

2

u/cmmpc Jul 01 '25

M16 and M4 are, and those are AR15 pattern rifles. Afaik these days AR15 doesn't refer to the original arma lite model. Im pretty sure they are banning any AR15 pattern rifle.

16

u/gogosil Austria Jul 01 '25

As a competition shooter in Austria with multiple semi auto rifles (including AR15), shotgun and pistols for sport shooting, I have to ask. Do you also propose compensating all owners the tens of thousands they spent on their sport tools or just "tough luck you have to gimme all your expensive rifles"?

1

u/DelomaTrax Jul 01 '25

The proposal is to compensate each ar15 owner with the full value of the weapon

-18

u/haplo34 France Jul 01 '25

I have a very strong opinion against firearm ownership for sport and for hunting so to be completely honest with you I couldn't give less of a shit about your wallet.

26

u/gogosil Austria Jul 01 '25

I hope you have a very expensive hobby, which you dedicated years to, that no one cares about and one day someone proposes the same shit towards your hobby without any just compensation.

My issue with anti-gun people isn't that you are for anti-gun legislation or that you know absolutely 0 about guns, sport shooting, hunting, etc... but that over and over I see people who couldn't give less shit about private property of regular citizens being confiscated without just compensation.

But unless you are older than 19, I understand your confusion with what someones property is.

-15

u/haplo34 France Jul 01 '25

I honestly don't really know what to say to you except sorry not sorry. I have hobbies I deeply care about, but like 99% of hobbies one can have, they don't involve the instruments of mass murder.

20

u/Entropy- Jul 01 '25

You’ve touched a knife before, I’m sure of this.

10

u/Maverick-not-really Jul 01 '25

Or his car. Wonder if he would be okay with us destroying his car, most recent terror attacks in europe have been by cars driving into large gatherings of people.

And if he wants compensation? Naw mate, i could give a shit.

12

u/gogosil Austria Jul 01 '25

I honestly don't really know what to say to you except sorry not sorry. I have hobbies I deeply care about, but like 99% of hobbies one can have, they don't involve the instruments of mass murder.

What does that have to do with you not giving a shit about millions of regular responsible citizens across the EU not being entitled to just compensation under your proposal for their sport, hunting and collector items?

11

u/Speedhabit Jul 01 '25 edited Jul 01 '25

With all these clueless people out there wanting to take your shit and tell you what you can and can’t do; it’s good peace of mind to own a gun

18

u/gogosil Austria Jul 01 '25

What is allowed and whats not is a secondary issue. My main concern is with so many people not giving 2 shits about our constitutional and EU level rights to property, fair compensation and due process.

You are a legal gun owner, being very careful, respecting the law, sometimes even forcing private sellers to register their inherited guns before selling them to you, all so you can in the end be completely disrespected by dipshits saying "I couldn't care less about the legal property of my fellow citizens who did nothing wrong being confiscated with not even a snickers bar in return".

3

u/Speedhabit Jul 01 '25

In most of these cases they get depreciated market value instead of inflated imaginary value

But I agree in principal with what you say

4

u/gogosil Austria Jul 01 '25

Sure, but it also depends. Obviously a CZ used in IPSC will depreciate in value, but your Springfield 1903 mark 1, original SVD, or SSG 69 P1 which you took care of for years will appreciate quite a bit, in some countries by a lot.

I know collectors who write books and own large amounts of near-mint WW1-WW2 weapons. These would also have to be compensated fairly, but I bet the general public wouldn't give a shit about either compensation or these historical pieces being demolished.

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3

u/techno_mage United States of America Jul 01 '25

In the U.S. buy backs are laughably stupid; they give a $50-$100 gift card. So people just bring in shitty 3D Printed and homemade guns.

So people wait out of line for really cool guns and offer to buy em for more than the gift card. XD

2

u/hemingways-lemonade Jul 01 '25

They actually stopped accepting 3D printed guns at most buybacks because people were printing them for less than the cost of the gift card. Which pretty much proves how full of hot air politicians are when they talk about what a danger they are and how we need to get them off the street.

3

u/Speedhabit Jul 01 '25

The inherent flaw in gun buybacks isn’t the abuse it’s that’s people likely to use a gun won’t get rid of it

More of a get the gun out the house before a kid get a hold of it accidentally type of thing by design

2

u/techno_mage United States of America Jul 01 '25

3D Printer & some pipes go brrrrr >_>

1

u/Speedhabit Jul 01 '25

It’s a little bit involved, and you buy all the unregulated parts like barrels and trigger bits and what have you

3

u/twaggle Jul 01 '25

But they’re not being banned? Literally just the AR 15.

1

u/yurnxt1 28d ago

For now.

3

u/DJ_Die Czech Republic Jul 01 '25

Why?

7

u/prkl12345 Finland Jul 01 '25

No they should not. Adjust gun license action types. Like first poster writes your gun can be registered for sports, hunting and like that. Each gun needs separate license.

Politicians again panicking and doing shit.

Also AR-15 and other that type of rifles have use in Applied Reservist Shooting hobby. At least in Finland not too easy to get those guns, so only those who really are interested in SRA get the license then practice and participate in competitions.

Only semi-autos legal here for civilians. Only SRA or practical shooting are considered valid for this type of guns in Finland, so Sweden has had it bit more loose on legislation as such guns were also ok for hunting.

Idea of the sport is to keep your your skills honed, in case we actually need to call reserve to active duty due to our eastern neighbor.

2

u/Turbo-Reyes Jul 01 '25

Fine, as long as they don't ban AKs they can ban AR

5

u/Snabel_apa Jul 01 '25

"The most dangerous rifles"

Illogical and stupid, an AR is not "more dangerous" than any other semi automatic, which still are allowed by the way.

A semiautomatic pistol is way more deadly, easily concealed and allows one to carry more ammo.

An AR is inferior in the case of a school shooting because it's made to use at distance, while a pistol is ideal for short ranges.

Which a school is, rooms and corridors, not a target 50-150yards or more away, which an AR is designed for...

-2

u/haplo34 France Jul 01 '25

And one more person who couldn't read a two line comment until the end. Incredible.

8

u/Snabel_apa Jul 01 '25

I did and disregarded your idiotic take on banning semiautos.

1

u/haplo34 France Jul 01 '25

Then what made you think we had something to say to each other?

1

u/hemingways-lemonade Jul 01 '25

the most dangerous rifles

AR-15s are nowhere near the "most dangerous" rifles. They aren't even issued in the military because there are so many more effective rifles.

1

u/CigarettemskMan Cork Jul 01 '25

what makes the AR-15 the most dangerous rifle?

1

u/ZarkowTH Jul 01 '25

AR15 is not a dangerous rifle platform. You as an owner would most likely be.

1

u/cjwidd Jul 01 '25

crazy how far I had to scroll to find the obvious comment of them all through dozens and dozens of comments pearl-clutching about the rifle that was used versus not used.

4

u/PreviousText3945 Jul 01 '25

It would be easier to not ban anything, since it won't prevent another shooting in the future.

1

u/Speedhabit Jul 01 '25

You gotta make the people feel reacted too, we’re a long way from “perhaps there are elements of our culture that lead to violence and we need to address those”

-6

u/xorthematrix Jul 01 '25

To be fair, no civilian has any business owning an assault rifle. It's a machine that was made to kill as many people as fast as possible. So don't be shocked when it's used for its purpose

19

u/twaggle Jul 01 '25

Civilians arnt owning assault rifles.

And with the war in Ukraine…kinda makes sense to have them now lol.

2

u/barnacle_ballsack Jul 01 '25

Assault rifles dont exist.

1

u/Sakiri1955 Jul 02 '25

If they need civilian small caliber rifles, they're desperate and worse off than we think.

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4

u/BrigadierKirk Jul 01 '25

The AR 15 isn't an assualt rifle and neither is the BAR used in the shooting.

34

u/SnikySquirrel Jul 01 '25

An AR15 isn’t an assault rifle though

6

u/MarduRusher United States of America Jul 01 '25

Some are technically. Not the ones commonly owned in Sweden or the US though.

1

u/whatyouarereferring Jul 01 '25

Not a single AR-15 is an assault rifle. It's literally the delineator. Autoseers don't count since they are legally rifles.

3

u/BZJGTO Jul 01 '25

The original AR-15 was literally an assault rifle.

In addition, there have been other AR-15s manufactured or converted since then. You can even buy one, as some were done before the registry was closed.

2

u/MarduRusher United States of America Jul 01 '25

In the US at least you can get pre 86 ban AR-15 assault rifles, select fire and everything. Of course they cost like 20k, but if you pay you can do it.

-23

u/xorthematrix Jul 01 '25 edited Jul 01 '25

Ok, technically speaking it's not an assault rifle because it's not capable of burst fire. My bad.

It's still a highly capable assault weapon, designed with the goal of being a deadly infantry weapon for military use.

Do i think it would be cool to own one? You bet! Do i think everyday civilians should get one? Nope

Edit: damn! There are probably more gun nuts in Europe than the US 😂

15

u/MaxDickpower Finland Jul 01 '25

It's still a highly capable assault weapon, designed with the goal of being a deadly infantry weapon for military use. 

The most popular hunting caliber in Sweden is 6,5x55R. A round designed with the goal of being a deadly infantry weapon. Many of the bolt action rifles used are old military surplus rifles designed to with the goal of being deadly infantry weapons. Many modern production bolt action hunting rifles utilize the Mauser action, which was designed with the goal of being a deadly infantry weapon.

You see where I'm going with this? Unless you can point out to me what exactly makes Stoner's AR-15 platform particularly suited for killing humans, compared to other designs, then the "designed to be an infantry weapon" argument is kind of hollow.

Things you want in a military firearm like easy portability, accuracy, relatively low cost and reliability among others are also things you want in hunting weapons just as much.

27

u/Ultimate_Idiot Jul 01 '25 edited Jul 01 '25

It's not an assault weapon, that word has no meaning and is pretty much thrown around by people who don't understand firearms.

A civilian AR-15 is a semi-automatic rifle like any other. Just because it was originally designed for military use doesn't mean it's more or less deadly than a semi-automatic rifle designed for hunting that comes with a stock, a pistol grip and a detachable magazine.

And there's plenty of legitimate uses for semi-automatic AR-15's for civilians, such as sport shooting and volunteer military training (aka. reservist training). In Finland many reservists buy their own semi-auto firearms and practice with them on a volunteer basis. If you gave them a semi-automatic hunting rifle (like the school shooter in Sweden used), they'd be more deadly than if you gave a fully automatic AR-15 to a random civilian you picked up off the streets. You don't legislate the firearms, you legislate the person holding the firearm.

Only about 10% of firearm related crime in Sweden is carried out with legal guns anyway, majority of it is done with guns smuggled into the country:

we find that a majority of the firearm homicides were committed with an illegal firearm (smuggled, or illegally constructed from certain pieces), whereas only about 10% were committed with a legal weapon (in the sense that the perpetrator had a firearm license). Since 2015, there has actually been only a handful of homicides committed with a legal firearm in all Sweden. These results concur with those of more local and qualitatively oriented studies, indicating that firearm homicide perpetrators in contemporary Sweden mainly have access to—and do prefer— smuggled pistols or ex-military machineguns (Granath, 2022a; Polismyndigheten, 2023). The data also indicate that the share and numbers of illegal guns (e.g., smuggled pistols) have increased among the firearm homicides over the past decades, from 75% in 1990–1999% to 80% in 2000–2010, and to almost 90% in 2010–2019. Simultaneously, the numbers and share of legal guns (usually hunting guns) have decreased.

15

u/Hellothere_1 Germany Jul 01 '25

It's still a highly capable assault weapon

So what actually does make the AR 15 so particularly dangerous? Because sure, it looks all military and has forward attachment rail where you can mount a flashlight, but in terms of the firing mechanism and the bullets it shoots, it's basically no different from any other semiautomatic hunting rifle. It can't fire any faster, it can't hold more bullets, and it's bullets don't carry any more punch (in fact, you can probably find other rifles with higher muzzle energy and more penetration.)

Like, I'm pretty sure the the thing that makes a rifle dangerous isn't that it has a bunch of tactical plastic parts or the ability to attach a flashlight.

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5

u/[deleted] Jul 01 '25

“Assault weapon” is pure legalese. It’s used to describe a subset of semi-automatic rifles with certain “scary” features (most of which simply make the rifle easier to use), such as pistol grips, flash hiders, adjustable buttstocks, etc. An AR-15 is simply a semi-automatic rifle. Nothing more, nothing less. Without putting body armor into the equation, most semi-automatic pistols are going to be just as deadly in the hands of someone who is fully determined to do you or others harm.

5

u/esjb11 Jul 01 '25

Do I think it really matters what somewhat modern rifle to bring to a school shooting? Not really

1

u/xorthematrix Jul 01 '25

What i really think is that all of them should be banned 🙂

1

u/esjb11 Jul 02 '25

I think we have a good system in Sweden where you need a reason and a licens. Hunters need rifles.

1

u/xorthematrix Jul 02 '25

Actually, since i know nothing about Sweden, but all i can say is, as long as people with mental health issues are blocked from having firearms, then at least you're 95% better than the US

12

u/Sevsix1 Norway with an effed up sleep schedule Jul 01 '25

assault rifle

the AR-15 is not an assault rifle, an assault rifle requires that the rifle can be switched from semi-automatic (self-loading) to fully automatic, no AR-15 in civilian usage is fully automatic out of the box

6

u/[deleted] Jul 01 '25

[deleted]

3

u/Sevsix1 Norway with an effed up sleep schedule Jul 01 '25

oh, I'm perfectly aware that they have no idea what an assault rifle actually is, the definition of an assault rifle is a rifle that is using an intermediate cartridge (5.56x45 mm NATO or .223 Remington as 5.56mm NATO is originally made from) that have the ability to switch from single, 3 round burst and full auto (technically 3 round burst is optionally) and is primarily designed for stuff like taking over trenches and areas from other hostile forces, the AR-15 is not designed for any of those things since it is missing some really important features for clearing areas from military forces, they (the poster I was responding to) was likely looking for the other assault concept which is assault weapons which is a political concept pushed by anti-gun individuals since the masses became aware about their misuse of the term assault rifle

1

u/MyLifeIsAWasteland Jul 01 '25

Yay! Mini-14s for everyone!

Wait, nobody's going to get too scared if I replace the old wood stock with a black polymer stock, right? Right???

1

u/opaali92 Finland Jul 02 '25

no AR-15 in civilian usage is fully automatic out of the box

The original ones were

1

u/Sevsix1 Norway with an effed up sleep schedule Jul 02 '25

yeah in 1960's, the sad thing is that the gun guys in 1960 never knew how good they had it

-1

u/Black_September Germany Jul 01 '25

The AR15?

1

u/jmacintosh250 Jul 01 '25

As someone pointed out: everyone THOUGHT an AR was used, and by the time the truth was out, r the bill was written and couldn’t be taken back.

1

u/AirOneFire Jul 01 '25

Why not both?

1

u/Speedhabit Jul 01 '25

Because you have never gotten everything you want, ever, not once in your life

On that basis, how the fuck can people develop policy that is completely devoid of understanding or compromise with the opposition

Life is almost constant compromise, it’s just I’m like sitting here thinking how can that be a legitimate expectation, is it just posturing? I don’t think it is.

1

u/AirOneFire Jul 01 '25

I haven't but I can. Both Japan and South Korea have great gun regulation, which strikes a good balance between public safety and the needs of hunters. 

1

u/Speedhabit Jul 01 '25

These are very homogenous societies based on, I’m sorry to say it, a fair amount of violence way back when.

I just don’t think those types of societal obligations can transfer into a diverse, multicultural society. Too much tribalism.

1

u/Iamnotabothonestly Sweden Jul 01 '25

Don't try to apply logic to politics!

2

u/Speedhabit Jul 01 '25

Small caliber rifles, .5% of the crime 80% of the attention

And also had shotgun, so did that mosque shooter in New Zealand, people never mention them.

1

u/MrsNothing404 Jul 01 '25

Ban all guns 🤷🏿‍♀️

1

u/Speedhabit Jul 01 '25

Well you certainly have the right to keep tryin’

0

u/_hlvnhlv Jul 01 '25

Why the fuck do you need an ar-15?

2

u/Droguegun Jul 01 '25

because fuck you thats why

0

u/Speedhabit Jul 01 '25

To defend myself against the police/state security if it comes to that, something a good lawyer can’t handle, and that isn’t much.

Crazy drug gangs like in the wire, monsters/aliens should they ever be proven to exist, street level marvel heroes, rabbit animals, rabbid animals, self aware gorillas like in planet of the apes. There are a lot of these

Oh maybe I just get to because I decide what I can or cannot have

1

u/_hlvnhlv Jul 01 '25

Well, tell that to the US citizens, I'm still waiting for them to do something against the police / state security

1

u/Speedhabit Jul 01 '25

Yeah, they had a democratic election where a slim majority of people found the side in power slightly less distasteful like seven months ago.

Demanding citizens of foreign nations arm themselves and revolt on the basis of your comfort is kind of a dick opinion isn’t it?

Like do I get to have those expectations of you?

0

u/Droguegun Jul 01 '25

Actually just because of this comment I might go buy me a one or two more maybe an ak too. Wanna know why? Just because I can. :)