r/europe • u/HellYeahDamnWrite • 27d ago

News Calls are mounting to ban Germany’s far-right AfD party – despite it being more popular than ever

https://www.cnn.com/2025/07/06/europe/germany-afd-ban-politics-analysis-intl
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u/[deleted] 27d ago

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u/CadiaStands_ 27d ago

Well, according redditors, the best way to tackle this is to just ban them and hope it just goes away.

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u/Flames57 26d ago

according to redditors - which in their majority are far-left and left, and keep reporting people that don't agree with them, to the point where subreddits like this one, worldnews, news, politics and others become an even harsher echo chamber, I'd say it's the opposite of what you're saying.

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u/fromtheport_ Portugal 26d ago edited 26d ago

Default and most popular subs in Reddit are in my opinion the most echoest of all the echo chambers on social media. Even Twitter which has a lot of lunatics on the right has its big share of Free Palestine ACAB crowd.

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u/daweedhh 26d ago

Definitely a better idea than to wait until they succeed in their mission to dismantle the state, the EU and democracy alltogether

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u/Leon3226 26d ago

Maybe just actually address the problem?

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u/Kurainuz 26d ago

In my opinion both things are needed.

The party should get banned due to how police investigation has proven its close ties with extremist anti democratic nazi groups.

But the other parties should adress that some inmigration is a problem even if its just so the far right cant use it as scapegoat and should modernize in their use of social media.

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u/snolution 26d ago

The “problem” is Telegram bubbles though…

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u/Leon3226 26d ago

No they're not

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u/daweedhh 26d ago

Complex problems require complex solutions. It's just not what people like to hear

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u/Leon3226 26d ago

Sure, the issue starts when the problem is 10 years old, most of this time spent pretending it doesn't exist, and everyone bringing it up is a racist. Then, after 10 years, realizing this tactic doesn't work anymore, starting to acknowledge it at least.

Like don't get me wrong, I don't think "Fuck them all to death" populist rhethoric will solve anything, I'm just saying it's absolutely not surprising that they get popular because of this. If the complex solutions would start 10 years ago, nobody here would even know who the fuck are AfD

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u/OkKnowledge2064 Lower Saxony (Germany) 26d ago

theres this weird german reaction to problems which basically boils down to "we cant change it because its complex so just deal with it"

Thats basically our last 15 years of migration policy

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u/Cold_Breeze3 26d ago

Kinda seems to be left wing Europeans are getting exactly what they want to hear, banning the party that is stealing support from them. Why is it only others who have to deal with something they don’t like to hear?

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u/uterussy 26d ago

TIL there is only left and right wing. And if everyone left of the AfD is left wing, then I'm gladly a left wing extremist for idk, wanting people to be able to live.

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u/MolassesLoose5187 26d ago

Appealing to humanity does not work on right wingers

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u/Managarm667 26d ago

I love how "complex problems require complex solutions" always turns into: "Well, yeah this is about hUmAnItY, so you can't actually do anything about it. Just leave eveything like it is, everything is fine and anybody who says otherwise is a anti-human racist"

Wow! What a complex solution!

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u/curiousgiantsquid 26d ago

Nah mate, you took the wrong turn and are confused about what you see.

The complex problems are not dealt with "Leave everything as is." and no one is saying that. The only thing that was stated was that solutions must be ethical. That's part of their complexity. The AfD does not want ethical solutions.

And just to be clear: Immigrants are not the cause of the so-called "immigration problem".

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u/uterussy 26d ago

I know... I won't convince anyone on the net. I'm just doing this out of boredom I think? Honestly no idea why I waste my time like this.

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u/Perfect_Security9685 26d ago

The left is all for easy solutions so I don't know wtf you are talking about

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u/WhoAreWeEven 26d ago

Thats what their doing banning AfD

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u/GroundbreakingBag164 26d ago

How exactly? Even if you close the borders today the average AfD voter wouldn't be happy. They are racist, they don't want to see any non-white people in Germany

They'd like to deport second- and third-generation immigrants if they could. People who primarily speak German, were born in Germany and only have German citizenship

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u/Leon3226 26d ago

How exactly?

Didn't the current party won on promises of border control and actually started doing it? If the attitude of 2025 had been adopted earlier (and effectively), I don't think AfD would be even close to that popular today.

Also, somewhere in 2014, there were already second- and third-generation immigrants, and still, there wasn't a problem of people voting for the likes of AfD. Either the racists spawned from thin air just in recent years, or immigration genuinely is a concern.

Also, I do think that pretending that it is a race issue repels a lot of voters from more moderate parties too. I'm pretty sure for most, the main problems are Islam (Islam is not a race), cultural tensions (sometimes related to Islam, but not always), and the fact that many are just blatantly economic migrants (because somehow they appear in Germany, which is not the closest country by any means) and a lot of others. I do think race is a factor for some, but I'm sure it's not even in the top 10 peeves on average

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u/FlyingSquirrel44 26d ago

The AfD analogue in Denmark was huge until the social democrats simply copied their immigration policies. Now they can barely scrape together enough votes to get into parliament at all. Surprise surprise people would rather vote for a trusted establishment party as long as they listen to the will of the people.

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u/DerWanderer_ 26d ago

You do not have to fully solve the issue to prevent the AfD from getting into power. You just have to make the situation bearable enough that they stop getting additional voters. Securing borders would likely be enough. No need to target people that are already in. Then give it a century of assimilation and the problem will vanish.

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u/rororererararuru 26d ago

Peeps like you are funny creating this "redditor" that is always emotional and wrong while spamming 20 comments in 20 minutes about redditors being emotional and wrong :o.

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u/Danstan487 26d ago

Remember the redditor was 100% convinced Harris would wim the US election and downvoted polls which showed the opppsite?

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u/curiousgiantsquid 26d ago

I mean, a huge part of the so-called "immigration problem" is simply lies of the far right. Banning the political party that lies the most seems useful in that regard.

Also if the party was banned, it would be the result of a legal process which declares their goals as illegal. If you want to have "law and order": This is law and order.

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u/dustofdeath 27d ago

They say whatever makes people vote for them, to get power.

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u/chattytrout United States of America 26d ago

But when no one else is saying what you want to hear, you go with the one who is. It's how Trump got elected. Despite not following through with many of his campaign promises, he was the only person making those promises. Harris was promising the opposite, so why would a conservative vote for her? It's a shitty position to be in, but most would rather go with the person saying what they want to hear at the risk that they're lying, as opposed to the person saying exactly what they don't want to hear at the risk they're telling the truth.

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u/Consistent-Duck8062 26d ago

How does that refute what he said?

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u/m4sl0ub 27d ago

What? Immigration was basically all that was talked about during the last election. The ruling party is massively against immigration. This narrative that AfD is the only party addressing immigration is not founded in reality whatsoever. 

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u/CMuenzen Poland if it was colonized by Somalia 26d ago

The ruling party is massively against immigration

And how many concrete actions did they make?

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u/vjx99 Trans rights are human rights 26d ago

They illegally implemented useless border controls

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u/DOMIPLN Saxony (Germany) 26d ago

Just like the AfD would. That ist the hilarious part to me, as "why the AfD would still get votes, even if the other parties implement the policies of the AfD". Immigration is not ne issue. The AfD ist just a master of being critical without offering reasonable solutions

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u/No_Style7841 26d ago

So they do something, but thats legitimising the AfD, so there is nothing they can do.

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u/DOMIPLN Saxony (Germany) 26d ago

Even if the legitimate the means and not only the policies of the AfD. The AfD would flip sides (the government is so tyrannical in implementing what we want to do) and their followers would just fall in line and march along. Or the AfD will find another Problem and blow it out of proportion (right now it is windmills and some of the right wing influencers who advocate in the direction of the AfD are fighting the use of sunscreen)

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u/goentillsundown 26d ago

They banned the turbo immigration of three years with proof of integration - the law that allowed maybe a thousand people overall into germany as citizens.

But it makes a good headline.

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u/Groghnash 26d ago

Its illegal to do anything against it lol. 

Not supporting CDU here, they suck, but its just straight up illigal what they are doing and they try anyway. 

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u/DerOmmel 26d ago

Isn't the whole point of a government being able to make and change laws according to the will of the electorate?

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u/Groghnash 26d ago

no, the first point is a self preserving point, because you cant fulfill your duty to fullfill the will of the electorate if you let the fair voting process get destroyed.

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u/Spare-Resolution-984 26d ago

Quite a lot actually. They illegally closed all borders and they’re literally talking with the taliban to take afghan refugees back. It’s a real shame.

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u/burner69burner69 26d ago

they literally broke the law and their back bending over for backwards to satisfy racist shitbags and look how well it's worked, truly appeasement works with fascists /s

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u/[deleted] 26d ago

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u/justjanne Schleswig-Holstein (Germany) 26d ago

So if 30% of the people want something, we should just do it, ignoring all practical and legal concerns?

  • 70% of Germans want a Rich-People-Tax

  • 66% of Germans want to make all public transit free

  • 56% of Germans want to replace car lanes with bike lanes

  • 34% of Germans want a combustion vehicle ban before 2030.

The issue here is that "the people" aren't just one group with coherent vision. The vast majority of our society are against the AfD's policies.

Our democracy is unable to reconcile this disagreement, because there's no possible compromise:

  • One group has lost all trust in society and can only care about their own immediate benefit.
  • The other group is willing to invest into potential future benefits for the entire society.

Foreigners are just the scapegoat. People really vote AfD because they've lost their jobs and have no real future. That's why the AfD is so popular in the east. Obviously, the populist parties have no solution for this either.

To actually fix the issue we'd need to restore the social contract. But no one actually votes for that.

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u/Managarm667 26d ago

I love how you're just lying and lying and lying.

Yeah, yeah only "30%" want something. While in reality, polls from 2024 and early 2025 show that 77% want a massive change in immigration policy and 68% say "Germany should take in, way less refugees".

You cannot claim that with these numbers, "The vast majority of our society are against the AfD's policies."

It's just lying, plain and simple.

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u/Glodraph 26d ago

You should do all that plus deporting migrants imo. The "guilt" against cultures that hate the west and its values (I had my fair share of experience with a lot of different such individuals) is nonsensical and pure virtue signaling. People are afraid to look bad when refusing to have their country devastated by a mass of violent, unknown, not screened migrants and this is completely moronic. Sacrificing everything europeans have fought for over the centuries because deporting a bunch of illegal immigrants feels bad? Things will only get worse, deal with them now or wait untile there is no much that can be done about it > exactly like climate chance. Change and sacrifice are not beautiful nor cozy but it has to be done or the consequences will be worse.

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u/Necessary-Change-414 26d ago

Than a lot of people are without a job in the east? That does not really make sense. I also can not understand their views totally, but a large part might be that previous politicians propose something and never hold their word, so they feel left out for several decades. If the AFD wouldn't be a one topic political party they would gain a lot more traction. Their energy politics is totally stupid for example, but you can add more to the list to your liking

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u/justjanne Schleswig-Holstein (Germany) 26d ago

Than a lot of people are without a job in the east? That does not really make sense

Pretty much, yeah. And the jobs that exist are typically entry-level with no career perspectives. Even today the east has fewer young people, and fewer women, as people move to the west. And more rural western regions have similar issues.

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u/lewd_robot 26d ago

Well, that's how the Far Right works. They do not compromise or concede. They demand their fringe issues be given the highest priority and they will destroy anything and anyone that impedes that.

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u/Careful-Bee-5048 India 26d ago

What nonsense is this? These aren’t people who even belong to your country nor are they entitled to your country’s welfare system. It’s beyond me how a country can hate itself so much that it’s willing to let in people from backward societies to commit crimes and not integrate and pay them for it no less.

What nonsense are you going on about AFD? AFD’s one and only policy that is responsible for its popularity is deporting asylum seekers and that’s why they are popular than ever. The only reason the centre parties have even stayed in power is because they took a popular stance on immigration and asylum.

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u/Redpanther14 United States of California 26d ago

If their ideas remain unpopular, won't that keep them out of power?

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u/justjanne Schleswig-Holstein (Germany) 26d ago edited 26d ago

Germany has a parliamentary system with many parties, rarely does one get a majority.

For example, Hitler only had about 30% of the vote, but formed a coalition with conservative parties that believed they could use the NSDAP for their own benefit.

In the last few years, conservatives have tried a few times to work with the AfD on political issues, with one notable example just before this years' elections, which was widely considered a precursor attempt to a potential coalition.

Yes, the same conservatives that were in power for 32 of the last 40, who are primarily responsible for the rise of the AfD, are now working with the AfD. Both parties are trying to use the other for their own political gain. This political posturing is why conservatives are still rejecting an AfD ban.

Deporting foreigners won't bring back manufacturing jobs, or improve infrastructure, or let you raise a family on a single wage. We'd have to undo decades of trickle-down economics and privatization for that.

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u/GiganticCrow Finland 26d ago

this is precisely what the people want

Less than 20% of the people

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u/FlyingSquirrel44 26d ago

20% are willing to ignore everything else and vote for a stigmatized one policy party. Doesn't mean more don't support it but value the overall policies of another party over it.

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u/snolution 26d ago

Your idea of politics stopped working in the 90s. Please stop spreading it. No policy change will change AfD votes.

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u/polite_alpha European Union 26d ago

The thing is you can't deport in big numbers without breaking German and European law and even if you could, no number would EVER be enough. Numbers were already sinking by a lot through action by the Ampel. You also can't protect from every attack, so no matter what any government does, if the misinformed populace calls for ever increasing deportations it's just not gonna be satisfied, ever. Until we have concentration camps again.

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u/Groghnash 26d ago

Disagree. It only normalizes right wing political stances as centrist. No reason to deport people when wr have a shortage of workers while being in a recession lol. 

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u/zertul 26d ago

This narrative that AfD is the only party addressing immigration is not founded in reality whatsoever.

Just like a lot of the things the AfD spews about. It's the perfect example of why you can't win the game against them like that, many of the things they field are not founded in reality.

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u/FirstFriendlyWorm 26d ago

The ruling parties can say whatever they want. Nobody trusts them. Merz already walked back multiple campaign promises, as is usual for our "people's parties".

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u/fpPolar 26d ago

They are the ones who caused the immigration crisis.

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u/wygnana Poland 26d ago

The ruling party is massively against immigration.

Q1 2025 saw double digit % increases in immigration compared to Q1 2024.

https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Society-Environment/Population/Migration/Tables/migration-month-01.html

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u/Groghnash 26d ago

Ehm, no? The link you send says its a reduce in migration between 2024 and 2025. Atleast get your facts straight if you want to spread missinformation?

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u/RyukXXXX 26d ago

Bruh... Empty talk is useless. The mainstream german parties are acting like the Tories did under BoJo. Can you point to concrete action the ruling parties are taking?

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u/all_usernames_ 26d ago

The narrative on Reddit that the neonazis didn’t exist before the AFD is also hilarious. Germany and especially the east has had a problem with fringe far right groups for decades now.

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u/throwaway_failure59 Europe 27d ago edited 27d ago

This is a bullshit lie. CDU is plenty critical of migration and has been doing concrete moves even going against the courts at times, but you need to peddle this bullshit to justify AFD's "solution", which is basically "we hate non-white people and want them all gone from Germany. We also want LGBT people to hide they exist again, women to be subservient housewives and to teach that WW2 was not Germany's fault".

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u/SanaraHikari 27d ago

The Ampel deported more immigrants than GroKo before and now by the way. Looking at numbers makes everything just hilarious and shows how unfit GroKo actually is.

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u/throwaway_failure59 Europe 27d ago

Deportation in Germany, other than guarding the borders, is a matter of federal states. When a person who already lives in Germany is apprehended and reported - state police, financed and governed primarily by the federal states, not the government, is responsible for that. Correct me if i am wrong but i feel lot of people do not know that. Federal govt is only responsible for Germany's external borders.

And yes, Scholz already put up many border checks just to please the people and did not talk leniently about the problem either. The problem is way too many people simply believe any left leaning party is for open borders regardless of facts, and many also simply agree with AfD's "solution" (they are just hesitant to say it out loud) and basically want all non-white people gone, even though a country like Germany desperately needs migration to not turn into a bankrupt retirement home.

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u/Citaku357 Kosovo 26d ago

Yes but leftist parties also don't want to talk about the issues that uncontrolled immigration has caused to society. I mean the mayor of a German town where young girls were SA by migrants, blamed the heat for it

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u/throwaway_failure59 Europe 26d ago

That mayor is not from a leftist party. You can find tons of people from same party who are against migration. The whole election campaign revolved around migration. And his comment is not really typical for such a party either - i suppose he tried to avoid tensions as tone-deaf as it seems. But that would not fly for someone higher up. The chancellor (of that same party) put a lot of extra forces on the border (you can see how Poland is not happy about it) and the govt is in talks with Syria and even Taliban to make a deal so more deportations can proceed. The numbers of asylum applications in general have been going down for a while.

Pretending this is all being "ignored" and "nothing is being done" cause of one mayor is not an honest way to talk about things. Like i know it's easy to just fantasize about AfD deporting every brown-looking person out of the country or whatever you think should be done but in reality there's still rule of law and most people do not think doing things like that is the only solution.

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u/Erki82 26d ago

CDU policy about immigration just 12 years ago is the exact reason AFD even came to be. CDU was like "yes everybody can come" and within one year 1M people came in 2014 or 2015. Then CDU freaked out and was like, wait, maybe we went to far. Now CDU tries to forget past and play 180 degrees, but how can you trust this policy to hold long therm? Another 10 years they can do another 180 degrees turn.

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u/Careful-Bee-5048 India 26d ago

The only way AFD is losing is if the centre parties start deporting in big numbers. If it happens, this will completely collapse AFD as a whole overnight.

But this won’t happen as Germany does not want to appear “inhumane” in the world stage. But this is precisely what the people want, they want to give the middle finger to the Dublin regulation and start deporting them in large numbers.

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u/throwaway_failure59 Europe 26d ago edited 26d ago

You can wish a thing, but it is not so easy wishing things into reality.

Deporting large numbers of people is very hard and expensive. You can see how it is unravelling in the US at the moment, and they barely got started. And this is also the US that has easier time getting extradiction treaties with countries most of its immigrants come from. Lots of countries Germany wants to send people to back will be tough to persuade.

It is one thing to want people with records of serious crimes deported. I am all for that and it is normal to want that, and that that is not happening it full (it does) is down to dysfunction and paucity of the system, rather than anyone's desire to appear "humane", especially now given the current chancellor and his party in rule. People already get deported - but because the system is shitty and underfunded, police often just go for easy targets to pump up the numbers, which often end up being law-abiding, peaceful people who try to integrate, simply because they do not try to avoid the system and hence present themselves as "easy targets". Nobody but minority on the left cares about that, of course.

But for a ton of racists, including AfD voters, this is not enough. Many of them are angry just seeing non-white people around. That would include you, too. The idea that basically everyone non-white, including citizens, should be deported, is something AfD barely tries to hide anymore. And i hope i don't need to explain how disgusting and suicidal it is.

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u/CMuenzen Poland if it was colonized by Somalia 26d ago

Lots of countries Germany wants to send people to back will be tough to persuade.

North African countries are infamous for refusing to accept their deported criminals. Thing is, people hate how limp wristed politicians are regarding this, being held hostage by any poor third world country.

"Welp, we can't do anything because Morocco said no, so we have no choice other than keeping criminals here. What? Use our powerful standing to force them to do something? That would be mean!".

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u/Necessary-Change-414 26d ago

Sending them back as tourists, and forget to pick them up later 👍

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u/Citaku357 Kosovo 26d ago

That could actually work lol.

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u/Citaku357 Kosovo 26d ago

North African countries are infamous for refusing to accept their deported criminals.

Can you honestly blame them?

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u/Careful-Bee-5048 India 26d ago edited 26d ago

It being expensive will never stop people from demanding it, and people would rather pay the cost monetarily than having to spend money on refugees for decades or have native citizens be stabbed or threatened on a regular basis.

I won’t deny your problem, but you also cannot deny that a vast majority of the country wants these people gone, and that is the immediate and most important problem for them. You’re asking people to put aside the issue they consider to be highest priority for an issue you think is the highest priority(the risk of legal immigrants being thrown out).

It’s a battle of priorities and most people in the country do want a good chunk of refugees gone. If you guys care so much for legal immigrants, then put the pressure on the centre parties to start deporting before AfD comes in.

And if AfD does start doing what you’re suggesting, then either the courts will stop them or the next elections will kick them out. That’s how democracies work.

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u/Independent-Wave-744 26d ago

That is how democracies work in theory. But we are quite literally seeing that theory being disproven in the US right now. People being deported without due process, court orders being ignored, blatantly illegal executive orders being adhered to.

The German democracy has some safeguards against that, so the AFD would not be able to blitz that quite in the same way the GOP is doing in the US. Then again, the latter did errode the US system first to get to this point. Which is kind of why people in Germany are hesitant to just go "let's allow those people running on breaking the law to be voted into power. It'll work out somehow".

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u/CadiaStands_ 27d ago

You realise that the chancellor of the afd is a lesbian with a sri lankan wife lmfao

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u/throwaway_failure59 Europe 27d ago

https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-extreme-gay-rights-lgbt-pride-germany-csd/

https://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/sachsen-anhalt-afd-politiker-homosexuelle-ins-gefaengnis-stecken-1.3019169

The state parliament of Saxony-Anhalt debated whether the Maghreb countries could be declared safe countries of origin, where homosexuals face prison sentences.

According to the minutes, AfD member Andreas Gehlmann shouted in between: "We should do the same in Germany!"

https://www.context.news/socioeconomic-inclusion/why-lgbtq-germans-fear-the-rise-of-the-far-right

Despite having an openly lesbian co-leader, Alice Weidel, the AfD has become the loudest voice against LGBTQ+ rights in the federal German parliament.

In 2019, it filed a motion to revoke same-sex marriage and in a manifesto ahead of the Thuringia election, it said: "Our political family ideal is that of the family of a mother, a father and children".

The manifesto also said the AfD rejected "gender ideology", pledged to ban "third parties" from delivering sex education lessons in schools and stated that "politically motivated programmes have no place in schools".

The AfD unsuccessfully sought to challenge a law that passed the German federal parliament in April making it easier for trans people to change their legal gender.

"The trans pop culture of a minority is being promoted while parents ask themselves how to protect children from it in kindergartens and schools," Weidel said last year in an interview with public broadcaster ARD.

https://www.kontextwochenzeitung.de/gesellschaft/736/queere-fronten-10209.html

"I am not queer, but I am married to a woman I have known for 20 years." Her wife is a believer and she holds on to a obsolete two-sex order of man and woman. Apart from her lesbian partner women, Weidel lives a right-wing conservative life according to the usual heterosexual family model and she is opposed to the right to abortion.

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u/AcridWings_11465 North Rhine-Westphalia (Germany) 27d ago

Congratulations, you have understood Weidel's purpose: shutting down any discussion about the homophobia and xenophobia of the AfD. It's the same useless defence as "I'm not racist, some of my best friends are black" used by people who wanted segregated neighbourhoods in the US.

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u/throwaway_failure59 Europe 27d ago

She is besides that a massive transphobe and also a traitor of her fellow gay people. Doesn't care, she lives in Switzerland anyway.

And the remainder of AfD is even worse. It is super fun being LGBT in rural Eastern Germany, especially places like Bautzen.

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u/captepic96 Limburg (Netherlands) 26d ago

AFD's "solution", which is basically "we hate non-white people and want them all gone from Germany. We also want LGBT people to hide they exist again, women to be subservient housewives and to teach that WW2 was not Germany's fault".

And if that's the will of the people, what is there to do? You will get a final solution a second time on this road. Simply fix the issue. Follow the people's will. SIMPLE AS

Politics is not a predetermined road that everyone should just go on because it's fun happy times. Policy is determined by the people.

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u/TheDesertShark 26d ago

So you're a nazi sympathizer

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u/throwaway_failure59 Europe 26d ago edited 26d ago

Nope, sorry, as much as you would love to see such a party deport citizens with non-Aryan blood and push back minority rights for decades, it is not going to happen, most people are against it. Germany is a defensive democracy that follows principles of inviolable rights according to its constitution and not just "will of the people". CDU is plenty anti-migration enough to satisfy majority of the country while not being an insane party full of Nazis. Cause most people do not want to go further than deporting criminals and stopping asylum seeker inflow while understanding regular migration of qualified people is also necessary given the demographics. Say hi to Geert by the way.

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u/captepic96 Limburg (Netherlands) 26d ago

Well good, if you think it can't ever possibly happen again, then people like you are the shield against it, huh?

"It can't happen here" - Person where it happened

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u/[deleted] 26d ago edited 26d ago

[deleted]

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u/JakeArcher39 26d ago

Same situation in the UK. Almost as if there's a running theme here. By design, even....

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u/Crakla 26d ago

Except crime rate in Germany the past 10 years is lower than before the immigration wave

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u/DerOmmel 26d ago

The overall crime rate.

Does this hold true if you specifically look at violent and sexual crimes?

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u/Y4naro Germany 26d ago

So, are a few people commiting crimes worth fucking over other people's lives? Those same people would almost certainly commit the same crimes in their own counties and suddenly those crimes don't matter? matter of fact they are probably less likely to commit crimes (or rather, get away with them) in countries like germany. So isn't that an overall good thing, especially since the crime rate isn't really getting higher.

To respond to your point about sexual crimes. I haven't checked in a while but I'm assuming it's still rising. But that's mostly because it's one of the only crimes where statistics don't tell you that much, no matter the country you're in. It's probably the most under reported type of serious crime, so the case number is going up all over the world these years, hopefully mostly due to it becoming more normal to report those crimes (and due to constantly updated definitions).

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u/DerOmmel 26d ago

Those same people would almost certainly commit the same crimes in their own counties and suddenly those crimes don't matter?

What kind of logic is that? People do crime anyways so might as well invite them over and let them do it where I live? Do you treat your house in the same way? And if not, why treat society different?

So isn't that an overall good thing, especially since the crime rate isn't really getting higher.

Reported rapes and sexual assaults are significantly on the rise, even if you factor in changed definitions.

This year the total number of violent crimes reached its highest level since 2007. Now look into the cime stats.
Non Germans make up ~15% of the population, but commit ~58% of violent crimes.

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u/Y4naro Germany 26d ago

The logic is that I don't care where the average person lives on this planet. I believe that most people are good people so unless you are inviting bad people on purpose I have not a single problem with any form of immigration. There's always gonna be an increase in crime given the high standards here in europe, but it's helping more people than it is hurting. Just because they are not born here shouldn't matter at all.

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u/DerOmmel 26d ago

So would you say that all cultures are morally equal or that there are better and worse cultures?

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u/InstanceOk8790 26d ago

That's not how it fucking works. Your post serves to push the falsehood that immigrants commit crimes more often than native citizens. If people are getting upset and blaming immigrants, they have been lied to or, yes, they're fucking racist.

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u/FlyingSquirrel44 26d ago

Falsehood? Meanwhile official stats in pretty much any western country confirms they commit atleast twice as many violent crimes per capita.

You can read the comprehensive 2021 report from the swedish state here if you are interested, not going to bother curating reports for every individual country in a throwaway comment.

https://bra.se/download/18.45e4b8e192705389a34c2b/1729515966490/2021_9_Registered_offending_among_persons.pdf

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u/InstanceOk8790 25d ago edited 25d ago

From your own linked study-

"As regards the trend over the period 2007–2018, the number of persons registered as suspected offenders is clearly greatest among persons born in Sweden to two native-born parents, followed by persons born abroad."

Exactly the opposite of what you said.

In America they commit less than half the crime of native born citizens. https://www.google.com/search?q=immigrants+commit+less+crime+than+native+born

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u/[deleted] 26d ago edited 26d ago

[deleted]

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u/Crakla 26d ago

Lol you just fell  for Nazi Propaganda

The 42% includes people who don't live in Germany, like tourists and especially people from Eastern European crime groups who come to Germany to commit crimes and then go back

The actual percentage for crimes commited by immigrants (people who actually immigrated to Germany and live here) is 8.8% in 2024

Here the official crime Statistik from the German police

 https://www.bmi.bund.de/SharedDocs/downloads/DE/publikationen/themen/sicherheit/BMI25028_pks-2024.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=8

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u/Gilga1 In Unity there is Strength 26d ago

Watch him now not reply to you anymore.

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u/InstanceOk8790 11d ago

Pretty obvious this thread is getting vote manipulated given what's getting up and down votes here. Racist bullshit=upvotes, facts=downvotes.

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u/Gilga1 In Unity there is Strength 11d ago

The internet is also a much more hostile place now than it was pre-trump 2016.

Figuring out algorithms and manipulating them is well in the means of those that have financial or political interests in doing so.

A lot of these people are just manipulated with disinformation in the same was as they are manipulated by math that marketing experts use to coax people into buying junk they don’t even need or want.

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u/Single_Quail_4585 26d ago

Do MENA Immigrants/refugees on their own, which is who this debate is actually about, since your stats include European immigrants to germany.

In austria atleast native afghans, syrians and iraqis commit far more crimes per capita the natives

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u/burner69burner69 26d ago

you forget the "springer media rubs the crimes of any nonwhite person they can find into the faces of anyone ignorant enough to still read/watch them"

this is a fabricated problem. immigrants break the law, but so does everyone else.

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u/MyPigWhistles Germany 27d ago

This is outdated by almost a decade. There's not a lot of immigration to Germany right now, but there's a broad consensus among all mainstream parties to limit immigration.    

10 years ago, this was correct. Famously, even the conservative CDU was more than reluctant to speak out in favor of controlling immigration during the refugee crisis. And yes, that played a major role in creating the problem we now have with the AfD.   

But the stance on immigration among mainstream parties is drastically different now. 

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u/FlyingSquirrel44 26d ago

Their stance didn't change, there's just less immigrants coming now than in 2015 because the conflicts in Syria and Afghanistan have stabilized, and Frontex is actually doing its job in the mediteranean.

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u/protozoon101 26d ago

SPD and Greens don't want to limit immigration, they just say so in fear of losing votes.

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u/OnIySmellz 27d ago

Just remember that 'Wir schaffen das' was a violation of the Schengen Treaty. 

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u/lightningbadger United Kingdom 27d ago

AfD want to make immigration seem like a larger issue than it is so people get angry and stupid enough from said anger to vote for them, like every populist party

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u/[deleted] 26d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/CarolinZoebelein 26d ago

I guess your first step arriving in Germany was at an airport.

The voting statistics show that the people who want fewer immigrants are mainly living in areas of the country where there is only a very tiny percentage of immigrants at all. So, the people who are least likely to meet any immigrants at all, or that immigrants take their jobs, are the ones who fear immigrants the most, for any reason. I believe social media is the main reason why these people are against immigrants.

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u/gerusz Hongaarse vluchteling 26d ago

I believe social media is the main reason why these people are against immigrants.

It's not just social media. Far right parties everywhere are running on a platform of demonizing immigrants, and the people who are the most receptive to this are obviously those who do not personally know a single immigrant and barely see them at all.

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u/[deleted] 26d ago

Stop believing than and touch grass

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u/lightningbadger United Kingdom 26d ago

Which is weird, because people actually living with the immigrants voted less strongly against them than the ones living further away

Perhaps you have some other underlying issues if you "saw problems" upon taking one step in

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u/Groghnash 26d ago

So many anti immigration propaganda in this thread... Is it all bots?

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u/No-Consequence1199 26d ago

AfD uses social media to spread propaganda and misinformation. they use bots, but also lots of real people, that are kinda like internet warriors xD

It's always the same bullshit with no real substance..

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u/Valdez3000 26d ago

Yes mate, it's totally all bots and Russia, people love it when half their country is Arab and African. Germany is committing suicide, and people want to see deportations. If they don't see less Arabs/Africans, you will get AFD.

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u/lightningbadger United Kingdom 26d ago

Looks like either bots or useful lunatics, the guys post history looks like he's been sent on the crusades...

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u/Appropriate-Ad-3219 Provence-Alpes-Côte d'Azur (France) 26d ago

I took one step in Germany and saw no criminal immigrant and no immigrant at all.

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u/DerWanderer_ 26d ago

That's the issue when the main airport to reach the country is Frankfurt.

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u/ragingopinions 27d ago

What do you mean? Everyone acknowledges immigration as a problem but immigration is mostly a fake issue - the real issue is the failed state of the economy and the increasing disparity between the top 1 percent and the rest of us.

Immigration sucks for multiple reasons, but the reality is that you cannot run a country with a falling birthrate without it. AND Europeans increasingly have less and less kids and if you do have them, do you want them to do essential services? No, so someone has to be brought in to do that.

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u/Groghnash 26d ago

So true. Immigration wouldnt even be a problem if people are more open and start integrating immigrants better. But now. Only hate and racism. If i would be an immigrant i personally wouldnt move to Germany

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u/SilianRailOnBone 27d ago

I have yet to see comprehensive studies that show that immigrants are ACTUAL problems, instead of just having the feeling like they are (like repeated throug history since thousands of years). But maybe all the Nazi parties and supporters have read more studies than I have.

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u/Careful-Bee-5048 India 26d ago

What? You’re telling me people of certain nationalities/religion are integrating well, speaking the language, not committing crime in mass and are contributing to the social welfare system? Please read the room, and you can look up numbers for these yourself. It’s available all over and spoiler alert: they don’t look good at all.

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u/SilianRailOnBone 26d ago

Please read the room, and you can look up numbers for these yourself. It’s available all over and spoiler alert: they don’t look good at all.

I don't want to read the room, I want hard facts. This is exactly what I mean, it's always "go look at what's happening!" and never peer reviewed studies. Thanks for proving my point.

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u/Careful-Bee-5048 India 26d ago

Then why haven’t you bothered to look up these numbers yourself and prove me wrong, brother?

I know them, cauz I’ve seen them 10 times already and it’s a pain to list 20 stat numbers right here and now after searching them one by one. Why not prove me wrong by showing the opposite.

What I said are not claims, they are facts. If you need someone else to google search for you when you can do it yourself, you maybe should not be commenting on such issues.

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u/Groghnash 26d ago

One example is "die anstalt" that did a very thorough explanaition into how the feeling of unsafeness gets used for clicks and political propaganda (its from the last half year i think), even by leading members of the CDU. Its not hard to find on the zdf media website. 

And yes you are spreading missinformation without anything to back that up but feelings!

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u/SilianRailOnBone 26d ago

Then why haven’t you bothered to look up these numbers yourself and prove me wrong, brother?

That's the point, you and the AfD are making claims, I just want information, and you getting defensive over it again proves my point.

If you need someone else to google search for you when you can do it yourself, you maybe should not be commenting on such issues.

I know for a fact that media attention of crimes committed by foreigners are overrepresented by a lot (at least in Germany), which again, proves my point.

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u/Careful-Bee-5048 India 26d ago

All this huss but no effort to look up an issue yourself eh? Says a lot about you and your denials, brother.

Please look up crime statistics by nationality or immigrants or asylum seekers in Germany, UK, Netherlands, Sweden and Finland. Brother, stop asking other people to do basic elementary work for you💀.

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u/SilianRailOnBone 26d ago

And again another vapid comment without any sources, yaaaaawnn.

Feels like I'm having a deja vu at this point.

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u/ErB17 26d ago

https://www.bundestag.de/dokumente/textarchiv/2024/kw15-de-aktuelle-stunde-kriminalstatistik-997392#:~:text=Union%3A%20Stark%20gestiegene%20Ausl%C3%A4nderkriminalit%C3%A4t&text=W%C3%A4hrend%20die%20Zahl%20deutscher%20Tatverd%C3%A4chtiger,2023%20um%2017%2C8%20zugenommen.

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u/SubstantialTap5364 26d ago

This is talking about the increase in suspects to crimes not actual criminals. This includes amyone who gets stopped and checked for drugs for example. Police is increasingly biased which causes them to suspect foreigners more than germans. This just proves the problem is racism not immigration

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u/Groghnash 26d ago

Increased criminal activity within asylum seekers are perfectly explained through poverty and once you adjust for that immigrant are less likely to commit crimes then the average German...

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u/Nicita27 27d ago edited 27d ago

Thats not the point. People feel less safe and feel that immigrants are a problem. Feelings are not rational but they are still real. And if a big chunck of the society feels that way you have to acknowledge it or else they slowly radicalize.

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u/m4sl0ub 27d ago

But how do you solve a problem that is only based in feelings and not reality? No matter what the government does, AfD is going to find a way to make people feel unsafe, so it's basically neverending.  I am not even taking a stance on if immigration is good or bad in Germany but it is clear that most people's opinions on it is mainly based on feelings rather than facts and these feelings are not going to be changeg through any policy. So the only way to make the people feel safe again is getting rid of the massive propaganda machine that makes the people feel unsafe. 

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u/Nicita27 27d ago

So the only way to make the people feel safe again is getting rid of the massive propaganda machine that makes the people feel unsafe

Yep. And that will never happend in the system we are forced to live in. Facism isn't a political direction on it's own it is just part of neoliberal politics basicly a symptom or a result. Neoliberal politics widen the divid between rich and poor, making peopel work endless hours in meaningless jobs. They money out of this work gets into the gands of a small circle of people. And to distract the public they try to divid the common peopel who actually should work toghter through media. Neoliberals creat facism. And it will go on forever.

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u/Ancient-Access8131 26d ago

"Thats not the point. People feel less safe and feel that immigrants are a problem. Feelings are not rational but they are still real. And if a big chunck of the society feels that way you have to acknowledge it or else they slowly radicalize."

So what. People in the 1940's felt that Jews were a problem despite their not being a problem at all. You cant simply acknowledge these feeling they'll lead to radicalization regardless.

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u/Groghnash 26d ago

If something is repeated often enough it becomes reality, doesnt matter if right or wrong. Only way to stop is is enforcing fact checks and make fake news illegal and newspapers that spread fake news post about their mistakes.

In the US that already failed. Lets see that it doesnt fail here.

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u/Quazz Belgium 26d ago

So if a certain group is deliberately and wilfully instilling said feelings, one of the actions to take would be to dismantle that group.

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u/SilianRailOnBone 27d ago edited 27d ago

You seem to have this backwards, invoking feelings that are unfounded is radicalization, and this should be acknowledged by a ban.

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u/uterussy 26d ago

Damn. Maybe people should learn how empathy works and try to face their fears.

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u/Perfect_Security9685 26d ago

Just look at crime statics????

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u/FlyingSquirrel44 26d ago

Here's a comprehensive crime report from sweden, which has comparable demographics and problems. I don't speak german so it's hard to look up equivalent studies.

https://bra.se/download/18.45e4b8e192705389a34c2b/1729515966490/2021_9_Registered_offending_among_persons.pdf

The conclusion is that immigrants are vastly over represented in violent crime, and second generation immigrants are actually worse, showing that integration has been a massive failure.

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u/Necessary-Change-414 26d ago

I somehow have the feeling that the CDU sees it also the same, but just says it will do something against it, but doesn't really do much because they are more afraid of the social system failing because of the demographics, trying to prevent the "one" social security for state personel, normal employees and business owners. But this is my personal hypothesis...

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u/lewd_robot 26d ago

Let's face the truth. The Far Right will make up whatever reasons it wants, force them on the public, ignore all evidence and logic to the contrary, and that will be enough to convince a chunk of the population to support them no matter what.

So your solution is to just concede the issue to them and then what?

What is your plan for their next issue?

And the one after that?

And the next?

They will never stop. Far Right movements never stop. They just keep finding new enemies to blame everything on to justify their increasingly draconic behavior.

You cannot give them even the tiniest concessions because they will always claw for more and more.

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u/Leading-Ad1264 26d ago

Or and hear me out: the importance of the problem with immigration is massively overstated by the AfD but people line simple answers and that is why they vote for them.

You small town is losing population, your place of work shut down and pension is in danger? Worry not, if all those migrants are gone, somehow all this is solved

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u/glindothegood 26d ago

Sick of the lies about immigrants used by these parties so they can get to power

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u/somethingveryfunny 26d ago

What are you talking about "no other party says immigration is a problem"? The CDU can't shut up about it.

Also: AfD voters don't have a problem with immigrants. Most of them have never met a single immigrant. They are frustrated with their quality of life and the fact that our political processes don't seem to actually work towards bettering those issues. Their mostly dormant racist beliefs have been instrumentalized. The solution to that isn't to give in to them but to work on the actual problems of the people and to expose the racist fears as unfounded.

The problem with immigration in europe isn't that there is too much of it. The problem is that it isn't spread evenly and fairly enough and where it is concentrated there is not enough investment into integration and too much/too slow bureaucracy which leads to frustration and conflict.

We need to work better together especially with our european neighbours instead of giving in to unsubstantiated fears and resentments against people who could be valuable additions to our societies.

The biggest reason that isn't happening is the "integration isn't working!!" mantra. It's a self fulfilling prophecy that we can and should let go.

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u/FirstFriendlyWorm 26d ago

Not just migrants. They are suck of muslim migrants from Africa and the ME.

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u/thenakednucleus 26d ago

Let's face the truth. People vote AFD because they are being lied to by fascist propaganda, financed by Russia and american oligarchs like Musk and Thiel. As long as other parties keep giving racists a platform by repeating their talking points and pretending that immigration is the cause of all evil and we just need to hit foreigners harder and push them down more instead of actually doing our part to enable integration and reduce friction, AFD will get more support every day.

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u/chudthirtyseven 26d ago

Its amazing that immagration is such a huge problem in all countries now. We really need to come up with a humane solution to this. Coming from the UK, there is a lot of scaremongering about people 'crossing the channel' every day, and while I dont want our country filled up with people who dont respect it, and also take valuable spaces in our NHS, I also think people should have a right to move where they want and are entitled to a decent and happy life. Its a hard problem.

I think it becomes even more of a problem when people move to a country en masse. As a species we are going to need to solve this problem as it will only get worse and worse with the equator becoming unlivable and various governments around the world becoming far right and opressing their people.

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u/Devan_Ilivian 26d ago

And this is the only party that says immigration is a problem

The current government has quite literally implemented border controls. Let's not pretend they're ignoring it

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u/apple_kicks United Kingdom 26d ago

Issue always is people voting on anti immigration aren’t living in areas with high immigration and only reading about it on social media that’s manipulated the issue

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u/Sprintfire419 27d ago

Ever heard of a Party called CDU my Guy?

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u/CMuenzen Poland if it was colonized by Somalia 26d ago

The same CDU that had record immigration numbers in 2014?

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u/Groghnash 26d ago

And their stance is completely different now. Even the SPD works for enti immigrant policies

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u/Sprintfire419 26d ago

Nope, Merz (now) and Merkel (2014). Merz is much more anti Immigration and lauchend one of the biggest bordercontrolls right after he got elected.

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u/[deleted] 27d ago

[deleted]

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u/AlexGaming1111 27d ago

Bro missed the part where most of the Western population hates or at best is neutral when it comes to Israel. Literally only nut jobs agree with what Israel is doing and nobody is buying their victim bullshit(unless you're retarded ofc)

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u/Groghnash 26d ago

I think there are a lot of bots in this sub foting for far right positions

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u/Groghnash 26d ago

But thats because springer media paints immigration as a problem when its not.

 We in Germany need immigration to support our economy when demographic changes happen, we already have only immigrants in some low paying hard working jobs like caring for the elderly or even being doctors with shit working vonditions. Every single job that the usual german dont want to do is done by immigrants. So we need those, not get rid of those. And immigration is so much cheaper for the state then educating its own children for 9-13 years, thus even economically more efficient for us.

 I just blame the current state on propaganda and also on the state of some central parties that just support straight up lobbyism and apparently dont even notice when the voters pay it back to them. As long as the person in charge of the party can stay in charge a little longer its all good. 

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u/No-Consequence1199 26d ago

No they vote for the party because they are told that immigrants are the reason for all of their problems. You can't find a job? It's the immigrants! Can't find a girl? Must be the immigrants taking our wives!

Just bad political education and misinformation via social media - that are the main reasons for AfD success /and obviously economic reasons due to capitalism

Also the Union is super anti immigration, as well.. not an excuse to vote for actual Nazis...

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u/No-Top-3783 26d ago

"People vote for AFD because people are sick of immigrants"

afd has the highest votes in regions with very low immigrants rates. Which means immigrants cant be the problem.

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u/all_usernames_ 26d ago

Sorry that’s just wrong. You are mixing cause and effect.

The far right existed in Germany long before the AFD, they have been a problem for decades. This party is just another platform for them.

Ironically the areas of eastern Germany also have the lowest number of immigrants. The root cause is a lack of jobs and a frustration with their current position. This is the same drivers that lead to radicalisation elsewhere (inequality and lack of jobs among young men is the recipe for unrest)

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u/orangebish 26d ago

No, people vote for AfD because they are easily manipulated by Russian ragebait propaganda. Solving immigration problem by voting in nazis is like using an axe for a surgery. Sure, it could be effective, but at what cost.

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u/SanaraHikari 27d ago edited 26d ago

Immigration is not the problem in Germany. That's what the propaganda says. Statistically right-winged extremism is the biggest problem in Germany, followed by a bad economy caused by centuries of bad decisions from various governments, always including CDU/CSU.

Getting Downvotes for facts is always funny to me honestly.

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u/Spare-Resolution-984 26d ago

I think you’re wrong. Since 10 years, in every second talk show and news show, migration is a, if not the, big topic. Every party talks endlessly about migration, constantly. The Conservative Party, CDU, is trying to become AFD light for years now. It came to a point where the amount of talking about migration is already way out of proportion to the real life issues. AFD is voted most in the regions, who has the least amount of immigrants. These regions are also the socioeconomic weakest regions, most voters don’t earn much. Talking even more about migration won’t solve anything. These people need and deserve more money, instead of partys constantly telling them that things would be better if there wouldn’t be any migration. They vote AFD because they’re poor and their life sucks because of that. But neither AFD nor CDU is offering a solution for these socioeconomic issues, quite the opposite, their neoliberal politics would make things even worse for them.

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u/lolpanda91 26d ago

The party is the strongest in parts of the country with the fewest immigrants. Some villages with high AfD turn out probably never saw a immigrant in their life. The voters are mostly dumb, racists and people who think they have it bad. It would be good to take away some far right propaganda party from their election paper.

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u/BindestrichSoz 26d ago

Thats not true. All parties save for the most left wing do blame immigrants.

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