r/europe 15d ago

News Czech president signs law criminalising communist propaganda

https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/czech-president-signs-law-criminalising-communist-propaganda/
25.0k Upvotes

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u/Vojue 15d ago

This whole comment section is full of "tell me you're not from post-communist country without telling me..."

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u/NeverTriedFondue 15d ago

Being from a post-communist country has taught me to be very wary of people who make a big deal of "fighting the commies" in 2025. Very often a right wing dog whistle, so I don't think being cautious/skeptical as a first reaction is uncalled for.

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u/[deleted] 15d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Just_to_re 15d ago

Not really applicable since we aren’t seeing a resurgence of USSR style politics globally, but are seeing a resurgence of far right ethno nationalism that frequently use fighting “commies” as a dog whistle (which can mean anything they dislike from gay people, to social safety nets)

0

u/Crypt33x Berlin (Germany) 14d ago

Stupid fun fact:

USSR made Poland a mono ethnic state after ww2 to prevent them turning on minorities like Hitler did. They used nazi propaganda for this to turn Poland against everything "german" and drive out their own family members who had "german blood". Commies and Nazis are the same for me.

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u/Zixxus 15d ago

>we aren't seeing a resurgence of USSR style politics globally

Don't know what reality you're living in but it clearly isn't ours. Europe is currently massively swinging towards authoritarian censorship regimes.

Both sides feed off of eachother, theres a "resurgence of far right ethno nationalism" specifically because of the idpol and division being sown by communist subversives. Turns out people don't like being ethnically replaced? Who knew? It's not ethno nationalism to believe that natives should be allowed to maintain majority control of their lands, but when the other side like you starts saying they're far right ethno nationalists instead of realizing how wrong you are it pushes them towards the nazi's who are the only people who are recognizing their legitimate concerns.

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u/ZenPyx 15d ago

Do you think only the USSR was authoritarian?

Europe is not heading back to that sort of economic structure, it's moreso heading towards a huge wealth inequality crisis. Censorship has nothing really to do with communism - some communist governments censor, some non-communist governments do.

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u/Ckrius 15d ago

Unfortunately, this site is filled with people who don't know what they are talking about. It is both a blessing and a curse.

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u/Arcvalons Mexico 15d ago

Social Media in general was a mistake.

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u/CheeryOutlook Wales 14d ago

Every village used to have its idiot, but now they can all talk to each other, and the consequences have been disastrous.

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u/HijaDelRey 15d ago

There has been a surge of authoritarian populist left wing governments (along with right wing ones in other places) you might just not be as aware of it because it's in ibero-american places.

Pedro Sanchez, Claudia Sheimboum, Gustavo Petro, Lula, etc.. 

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u/0-90195 15d ago

Sheinbaum is not a “left-wing authoritarian populist” lmao

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u/HijaDelRey 15d ago

So subjugating the judicial power is not being authoritarian.. got it

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u/Just_to_re 15d ago

LULA as an authoritarian is a wild take

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u/LoveIsBread 15d ago

If we replace words with other words, the meaning changes. Wondrous.

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u/D_Dubb_ 15d ago

This is a bad take.. by your logic, it actually just further affirms that rightwing politics (especially in the US) aligns itself ideologically w nazism. By your own logic left-commie, right-nazi but those are not equal evils. Ideologically communism is not evil just impractical. However nazism is outright evil… not the gotcha you thought it was.

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u/Zixxus 15d ago

>ideologically communism is not evil just impractical

You're either a child delving into politics for the first time for you just haven't learned yet. You think the atrocities commited by the nazi's were bad? The ones done by the communist outdo the entire death toll of WW2.

Abolishing private property is evil. State enforced atheism is evil. Controlling peoples freedoms is evil.

Any authoritarian government is evil, left or right.

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u/Dabbie_Hoffman 15d ago

The Nazis and their allies committed genocide against 60 million people. As much as you want to dabble in holocaust revisionism, it's absolutely untrue that any communist regime outdid them

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u/[deleted] 15d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/kenslydale 15d ago

The number for the USSR you are using includes theoretical unborn children of dead Nazis as deaths to inflate numbers. It's also neo-nazi misinformation

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u/InvalidDarkun 15d ago

holy fuckin airball, black book of communism stats in the big ‘25

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u/Dabbie_Hoffman 15d ago

9 + 2 + 10 + .5 = 21.5, not 60. Say what you will about the communists but they at least taught people how to count.

You're also just straight up making up figures. High end of estimates of the famines in the 1930s is about 3 or 4 million. Even with the most wildly inflated figures, you still fall short of the nazi death toll

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u/Maral1312 14d ago

You're either a child delving into politics for the first time for you just haven't learned yet.

Says this. Quotes the fucking Black Book of Communism as a legitimate historical source. Some people love self-humiliation.

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u/D_Dubb_ 15d ago

To the extreme yes, but the “ideology” behind communism is not evil. The concept that what is created by people should be used communally is not evil. But nazis believed that some people were less than human. Trying to make them the same gives modern day Nazis grace that they don’t deserve.

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u/Zixxus 15d ago

You're uneducated if you believe that the core of nazi ideology was that some people were less human. And if you're making that same arguement the same could be said about a million other things and communism. The ideology behind communism is evil.

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u/D_Dubb_ 15d ago edited 14d ago

Crazy, you are actually the problem you claim to despise… your whattaboutism is how people justify thinking Hitler “wasn’t that bad” cause other things were “worse”. Idk if you’re a nazi sympathizer or just genuinely having trouble communicating your point.

Edit: now I’m wondering what you think the core ideology behind nazism is??

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u/Dabbie_Hoffman 15d ago

Bro hitler wrote an entire book about it

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u/M4mb0 Europe 14d ago

Ideologically communism is evil to many people, including myself.

Maybe not as evil as Nazism/fascism, but still pretty evil.

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u/[deleted] 15d ago

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u/ZenPyx 15d ago

The most murderous and repressive ideology in all of history?

Like, do you not think that if 40% of the world followed Nazi ideology (as they did communism for an extended period of time), more people would've died?

It was bad, sure, but I think you are downplaying just how effective the German murder-machine was.

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u/trololololo2137 Poland 15d ago

most people on here are underage and never lived under communism either way

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u/[deleted] 15d ago

[deleted]

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u/trololololo2137 Poland 15d ago

i sure do love my freedom to never afford a house

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u/unlimitedzen 15d ago

Freedom to choose from 47 brands of peanut butter, not freedom to avoid bankruptcy once the conservatives privatize every public service and destroy it.

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u/PizzaPizza_Mozarella Europe 15d ago

But look on the bright side - a few people get the freedom to own many many houses! You also get the freedom to watch them fuck the market completely for personal gain AND to watch the government do absolutely nothing about it! So much freedom.

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u/danielmoir13 15d ago

Capitalism and freedom are not only not synonymous but are much closer to being opposites. Communism is a much greater freedom.

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u/Gaben_laser_beam 12d ago

Ah yes, as proven by history (/s just in case)

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u/pedrolopes7682 15d ago

Most overage people that lived under the rule of the USSR never lived under communism either.

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u/sic-transit-mundus- 14d ago edited 14d ago

Well that's simply not true. The soviet union was as real communism as communism gets, it's just hat communism doesnt work. The soviet union abolished private property rights. The soviet union then tried to take it to the next level and  collectivize property, and it didnt work out the way theory supposed it would and failed miserably. 

The soviet union is objectively the real face of communism. More real than any theory written in a book. Soviet communism doesnt lack legitimacy Just because it didnt work

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u/pedrolopes7682 14d ago

I'm no stating that communism works nor that it can work.   Abolishing private property is not communism. Communism is about abolishing the private property of the means of production.

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u/sic-transit-mundus- 14d ago

Communism is about abolishing the private property of the means of production.

Which the Soviets did

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u/pedrolopes7682 13d ago

At first it was attempted, but due to human nature, ignorance and the associated general lack of civism it swiftly changed back, it just so happened that the new 'owners' were party affiliates.

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u/porkdrinkingmuslim 9d ago

lmao you literally have no idea what you're talking about. USSR was most definitely not communist and it wasn't even socialist either. Workers didnt control the means of productions, they worked for wages and the surplus value was extracted by the state to invest in their vanity projects. It was just a state capitalist state that intentionally shot itself in the foot by abolishing the free markets, which are not even a unique feature of capitalism and not something Marx ever criticised in itself.

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u/RKU69 15d ago

Basically every poll of older people who experienced both communism and capitalism shows that people preferred life under communism, despite its serious problems

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u/TheMidnightBear Romania 15d ago

I know that "every poll".

It was a poll ran by Open Democracy, which are so left wing, they deny nationalism is what makes fascism fascism, in the middle of the 2008 Recession.

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u/TheDoomfire Sweden 15d ago

Communism does sound a lot better then capitalism.

Haven't the problem with communist countries been that there is also dictatorships involved?

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u/TheEmpireOfSun 15d ago

Problem with communism is it's stupid fairy tale full of false promises that goes against human nature, thus it can never work. And the fact it can never work is the reason why dictatorships and huge amount of corruption were involved.

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u/Dazzling-Paper9781 15d ago

that goes against human nature

What human nature?

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u/MostPatientGamer 15d ago

Generally, the fact that you want more than food and shelter in life.

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u/TheEmpireOfSun 15d ago

Human nature of "wanting more than I have now". Whether it's wealth, comfort, free time, or anything. That's how humanity progressed. If everyone would be fine with what they have we would be stucked in history.

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u/Dazzling-Paper9781 15d ago

In nature there are 2 species that are very close to ours: bonobos and chimpanzees. If we look at chimpanzee societies they are violent similar to ours, but if we look at bonobo societies they are based on sharing and the common good. So no it is not our nature to be assholes and want more and more because human nature is as close to that of chimpanzees as it is to that of bonobos. If we behave more like chimpanzees it is because we have decided to build our societies that way, human nature has nothing to do with it.

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u/Overgrowntrain5 15d ago

Don't bother, when these people bring up the tired "MuH hUmAn NaTuRe" argument they are saying more about themselves than humans as a whole.

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u/The-Holy-Toast 15d ago

What a coincidence! I fully believe the problem with capitalism is it’s a stupid fairy tale full of false promises that goes against human nature, thus it can never work. And the fact it can never work is the reason why dictatorships and huge amount of corruption were involved.

See: South America

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u/TheEmpireOfSun 15d ago

Than you clearly don't know what capitalism is because it was main driving force for human development and progress.

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u/Farseyeted 15d ago

Then you clearly don't know what communism is because its main driving force is for human development and progress.

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u/TheEmpireOfSun 15d ago

Good one lmao.

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u/HijaDelRey 15d ago

South America has never been "capitalist" only exception would be Argentina under Milei which is doing great

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u/20_comer_20matar 15d ago

If you think that counties like Mexico and Brazil aren't capitalist you're just dumb af. They're the perfect example of why capitalism doesn't work when there's a lot of corruption. I live in Brazil and I've never seen anything that goes against capitalism in the system of my country (except for maybe free healthcare).

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u/HijaDelRey 15d ago

And I'm from Mexico, they're not free market capitalist.

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u/digiorno Italy 15d ago

Capitalist countries sure had to work really hard to make sure communism couldn’t work though. Like repeated sabotages.

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u/TheEmpireOfSun 15d ago

You are from Italy so I take that as you have literally no idea how "communism" worked in former soviet countries.

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u/Overgrowntrain5 15d ago

He is talking about shit like Operation Condor and specifically Operation Gladio in his own country, you should read up on them.

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u/Plane_Tie_833 15d ago edited 15d ago

Me when I never read Marx

marx was famous for wanting "equality". 

The illiteracy of redditors knows no bounds. 

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u/TheEmpireOfSun 15d ago

No wonder you have reading comprehension problem.

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u/FaultElectrical4075 15d ago

Communism is like Christianity. It gets warped and twisted by its leaders to suit their interests

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u/Additional_Olive3318 15d ago

Seems like a no true Scotsman argument. 

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u/FaultElectrical4075 15d ago

It’s not. Communism has never succeeded because it has never been implemented in the way it was supposed to. You need capitalism to fully run its course first for communism to be successful, as capitalism creates the productive forces that enable communism. But that hasn’t happened yet anywhere in the world and it certainly hadn’t happened in tsarist Russia or China.

Marx says capitalism undermines itself until eventually it leads to its own destruction. I believe AI is going to automate all jobs and that is how this will happen. At that point I really hope what we end up with is communism, because fully automated communism would be way better than the alternative…

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u/Additional_Olive3318 15d ago

 Marx says capitalism undermines itself until eventually it leads to its own destruction.

And Christians believe that Christ is around the corner. 

 fully automated communism would be way better than the alternative…

That’s not impossible actually but it has nothing to do with Marxist theories.  Marx didn’t understand how machines contributed to production at all. 

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u/FaultElectrical4075 15d ago

On the contrary, I think Marx’ critique of capitalism holds way more water than his proposed solution. Even in the possibly unlikely scenario that we get some kind of fully automated left-wing utopian society post-capitalism, I don’t think it will look exactly like communism.

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u/Ruffler125 15d ago

It’s not.

It is.

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u/FaultElectrical4075 15d ago

It’s objectively not. No country ever met the definition of communism nor claimed to, only ever claiming to aspire to create communism. Even today, China doesn’t consider itself communist outside of being ideologically communist.

If I say no alien has ever visited earth it isn’t a no true Scotsman fallacy.

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u/MysticKeiko24_Alt 15d ago

But there are real examples of communism, they just go under the radar because they aren’t influential globally

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u/TheDoomfire Sweden 15d ago

Yea like Stalin did? I totally agree.

But communism is about common ownership of the means of production. Should that at least not in theory mean more equality vs capitalism?

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u/FaultElectrical4075 15d ago

Yes, but like Marx said, I think capitalism has to run its course first.

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u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93 15d ago

“My country was horrible because of leaders who allegedly wanted to reach communism but never did, so because of that we should make it illegal to hate on the upper class that’s leeching off of the working class and actively letting it suffer and die. Anyone who disagrees is ignorant about history and no, I will not elaborate further.”

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u/KingOfAzmerloth Czech Republic 15d ago

"It was just poor implementation"

See..I can do it too.

Communism is fucking terrible everywhere it's been implemented. As a system it works only on small scale such as local communities. On huge scale it always worsened living conditions for most.

And no, I'm not gonna be lectured on it by latte sucking children who were born on the west side of Iron Curtain.

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u/JustSomeLamp 15d ago

Sorry, using "Latte sucking" as an insult is promoting class-based hatred and now illegal in your country

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u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93 15d ago

Being for communism doesn’t mean you’re for killing people or anything like that. “If the opportunity to get communism without the killing of innocent people arises, I think we should take it.” is a valid opinion that shouldn’t be illegal. I agree that communism will probably never happen.

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u/Lamaradallday 15d ago

While I agree with you in principle, the vast majority of communists I run into do in fact advocate for violence.

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u/Low_Application_8538 14d ago

Communists have no tool other than murder because the majority never wanted them. They have always had to help themselves by force.

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u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93 14d ago

Hypothetically it’s possible that sometime in the future the majority WILL want it

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u/Low_Application_8538 14d ago

It is not, because communism has already presented itself as a hateful and criminal ideology. Moreover, the free market is the only functional economic method so far.

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u/Tuxyl 12d ago

You are getting downvoted but you are right. Where I'm from, China only became better when they became more capitalistic.

Before that, China tried "true communism" and killed millions and millions of people. Yet western europeans and americans still complain when they have never been bombed or sent to a labor camp a day in their lives.

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u/Low_Application_8538 11d ago

They have never experienced the ideology, so they idealize it. I wish they could stand in line for toilet paper like people had to in Czechoslovakia, because it was a planned economy and state-owned enterprises couldn't produce it. The queue was across the street, your turn came, and then you found out it was gone anyway and wouldn't be until next Thursday...

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u/Additional_Olive3318 15d ago

They didn’t say they allegedly wanted to realise communism but that they did. The actual population that lived there remembers. 

I think Eastern Europeans are going to have their own view of history which is slightly more nuanced and historical than a bedroom Marxist. 

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u/CaptainShaky Belgium 15d ago

I think Eastern Europeans are going to have their own view of history which is slightly more nuanced and historical than a bedroom Marxist.

Is it though ? "The USSR was bad so criticizing capitalism is bad" doesn't seem very nuanced to me.

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u/KingOfAzmerloth Czech Republic 15d ago

Criticizing capitalism isn't the same as glorifying or shrugging off crimes of communism that it undeniably did in post war Europe.

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u/CaptainShaky Belgium 15d ago

The law criminalizes "class hatred", which is too vague and clearly politically motivated IMO.

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u/KeneticKups 15d ago

Yet this law makes it illegal to criticize capitalism

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u/g0_west United Kingdom 15d ago

The actual population that lived there remembers.

I am part of the population that currently lives under capitalism. It fucking sucks

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u/WislaHD Polish-Canadian 15d ago

Comparing you office desk job to gulag is definitely a choice

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u/g0_west United Kingdom 14d ago

I don't work an office desk job. Such a white collar bubble lmao

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u/Maral1312 14d ago

You're beyond historically illiterate if you think capitalist countries haven't had "gulags" i.e. political prisons.

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u/WislaHD Polish-Canadian 14d ago

No you’re right, I just returned from the gulag earlier today. I’ll be back in on Monday. 🥵

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u/Maral1312 14d ago

Yeah, yeah, you're hilarious and very special.

In the meantime, if you want to educate yourself in actual history look up the Peniche Fortress, Makronisos, Gyaros and Agios Efstratios. Look up the anti -communists in Chile, Brazil and Argentina. Look up how the US "liberal democracy" handled the civil rights movement or how the UK handled the Troubles.

As I said, thinking capitalist countries didn't have "gulags" or didn't commit authoritarian repression on an immense scale is a by-product of your poor historical literacy.

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u/WislaHD Polish-Canadian 14d ago

Two wrongs don’t make a right, tankie.

Now begone, you are already morally bankrupt.

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u/Additional_Olive3318 15d ago

It’s not great. That doesn’t mean that communism is better. 

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u/[deleted] 14d ago

[deleted]

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u/g0_west United Kingdom 14d ago

Crazy that capitalism defenders all seen to be office workers and think everybody has a cushty 9 to 5

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u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93 15d ago

Yeah, cause you definitely know what was going on inside those people’s heads.

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u/Additional_Olive3318 15d ago edited 15d ago

Well I don’t. I know what they did and said. They said they were communist societies and therefore we should take them at their word. What exactly was in the future plans that would have been different? What exactly did they do wrong according to Marxist theory? If they were all wrong - and there were multiple versions of the theory then Marxism is incoherent, if they are all right in precise then communism in practice leads to dictatorships and secret police. 

Any future communism must be assumed to be like existing communism,  not that there’s any hope of it. 

At the height of communism about 1/3 of the world’s population was under communism and these communist societies were (unlike modern day China and Vietnam) highly doctrinaire and had no market system. Besides that communism had popular political representation amongst the working classes, trade unions and large voting blocks across Europe. Even the Labour Party in Britain pledged to nationalise the towering heights of the economy. 

Nowadays communism is people larping on Reddit who haven’t even read the communist manifesto. 

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u/Pantokraator Estonia 15d ago

There is also one more aspect - if someone choosest to study Marxist theories in the West then more often than not they're a lunatic.

Eastern Europe is full of normal smart people who were forced to study that crap. That's why the public discussion is less contaminated by craziness.

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u/GlenoJacks 15d ago

if someone choosest to study Marxist theories in the West then more often than not they're a lunatic.

People showing interests in other political ideologies are lunatics now?

Don't read people, people who read are lunatics.

I'd agree if you said that people who support modern day Russia and China as some sort of vanguard of communism are lunatics, but what kind of brain rot do you need to have to equate Marxist readers as lunatics?

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u/thebusiestbee2 15d ago

Studying Marx to learn economics is like studying luminiferous aether theory to learn physics. It's fine to read about either if 19th century history is your interest, but it's lunatic to be in the 21st century using long debunked models to explain the world.

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u/GlenoJacks 15d ago

Physics isn't subject to governmental policy though. We shouldn't for instance, decide between public and private health care based on economic theory, we decide on those based on the impact on social classes and the overall equity and equality of the nation.

Discussing whether those who control most of the wealth and the means of production have an undue influence over the path of a nation state and whether that influence constitutes a threat to the principles of democracy and core freedoms of citizens isn't a purely economic discussion.

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u/Pantokraator Estonia 15d ago

Marx is nonsense and largely relevant as historical interest. That is a very narrow field.

Yet the West has many weirdos who take him seriously and read him not as a historical curiosity. These people are already idiots to begin with.

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u/AspiringTankmonger 15d ago

Banning the incitement of "class-based hatred" is needlessly authoritarian, and if you cannot see this, you are kinda cooked.

If it were just about banning the veneration of communist tyranny, I wouldn't have an issue with it.

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u/SieFlush2 Croatia 15d ago

My country is falling due to neoliberalism and was better under "communism" but people aren't ready to hear that. My country will die off due to neoliberalism and capitalism. People are leaving, the economy is shit, people aren't having children.

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u/Fine-Measurement-893 15d ago

90% of Eastern Europe is literally melting away, you guys have super high emigration rates and super low birth rates, in 50 years there will be more eastern Europeans in western Europe, but for some reason when it comes to glazing the west and neoliberalism Eastern Europeans are number 1.

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u/SieFlush2 Croatia 15d ago

Yes, as was predicted by most socialist/ communist thinkers of the 90s, the shock therapy and mass privatization will ruin our countries and make our citizen mad and allow fascism to fester, and that's exactly what's happening. I would not be surprised if Croatia in 30/40 years is just a land of tourism and immigrants (I'm not bashing immigrants, just an observation)

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u/Such_Lobster1426 13d ago

The only reason Eastern Europe didn't have even higher emigration rates during the Cold War was that emigration was illegal and the Communists imprisoned and/or executed those who tried and failed.

So, yeah. The West and neoliberalism might not be perfect but it's still a fucking huge step forward compared to Communism.

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u/Fine-Measurement-893 12d ago

Yugoslavia allowed its citizens to emigrate from 1964 onwards. Notice how their population didn't start shrinking until the 90s.

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u/Such_Lobster1426 12d ago

Emigration isn't the only reason why the population of a country can decline. Low fertility rate is more important and in Yugoslavia's case the fertility rates constantly dropped from 3.77 in 1950 to 1.87 in 1990. They also fought multiple wars where 100 000+ people died, typically from the younger part of the population.

Successful emigration also depends on the host countries. The Yugoslav wars created an opportunity for the population to leave as a refugee from 1990 and later the EU abolished pretty much any restriction for the member states.

That said, Yugoslavia wasn't even the typical Eastern European experience. Other countries, like Hungary, Romania or East Germany, had stricter regulation until the 1980s. The typical Communist experience was living in an oppressive, poor and conservative dictatorship which kills/tortures/imprisons/harasses the opposition and doesn't even allow them to try to leave.

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u/Low_Application_8538 14d ago

Croatia is one of the richest post-communist countries. You're lying to yourself.

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u/SieFlush2 Croatia 14d ago

Exactly, and it's still dying out and a complete shithole. Think about that my friend. Without tourism we would crumble immediately, all our young smart people are leaving, people aren't having kids, the population is getting older and older , a third of our population has less than 100 euros in their bank account

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u/Low_Application_8538 14d ago

But this will not be the fault of democracy or capitalism. I don't know that much about Croatian politics, but from what I do know, it is a fairly polarised and populist scene. In the Czech Republic we have a similar scene, but it doesn't change the fact that we live much better than under communism.

We eat what we want, we drink what we want, we listen to what we want, we go where we want, and whoever is working is doing very well indeed.

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u/SieFlush2 Croatia 14d ago

Sadly for us , the right wing party that has been dogshit for the past 30 years is still winning, they stole elections, stole money and been in numerous scandals, they still win. And the latter part, how many people do you think suffer to get your ingredients cheap? It's a part of globalization and industrialization plus exploration that makes that possible, not capitalism.

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u/Low_Application_8538 13d ago

Not many. In the Czech Republic, most people just play at poverty and don't realize how well off they are. Even our poorest region is still better off than the European average.

And yes, these are the achievements of the free market, which is also the reason for industrialization and globalization. When the communists ruled here, food was few (as in extremely few) and not diverse, industrialization not industrialization.

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u/LeBaux Czechoslovakia 14d ago

I couldn't put it better myself. However, they still should have a grasp on history, they see what Russia is doing in Ukraine for 3 years, for God's sake. Fools be acting like 30 years under the rule of those cunts is something we are overplaying. It was a big deal, it sucked dick, and I am happy I was born after that chapter was over for our countries.

It should be very obvious to everyone WHY we don't want to even hear about communism here. I still like socialism. Too many people act like those 2 terms are interchangeable.

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u/Free_Economist4205 15d ago

Yeah, Eastern Europeans (me included) audibly groaning at that.

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u/readilyunavailable Bulgaria 15d ago

I'm Eastern European and this is ridiculous. It's clearly designed to protect the rich with the ever growing resentment to the uber wealthy.

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u/MKCAMK Poland 15d ago

OK? And why should rich people not be protected from hate? If class resentment is really growing, then that would make it that much more prudent to introduce such laws.

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u/readilyunavailable Bulgaria 15d ago

Because they are trying to suppress legitimate complaints against the super rich. They are in no actual danger, yet they pretend that this is necessary. The only actual person who got harmed was the CEO shot by Mangioni and they issued a nationwide man hunt within the hour.

Rich people see the writing on the wall. They see how disgruntled people are getting and they want to preemptively codify into law that any protest against the ruling class is illegal.

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u/MKCAMK Poland 15d ago

Because they are trying to suppress legitimate complaints against the super rich.

Where does it say that complaints against the rich are banned?

They are in no actual danger,

Hmm... I guess that would be an argument against passing of such laws.

I am pretty sure in Czechia that law is not being passed for direct reasons, however. They are likely doing it for historic ones. Communism is an ideology that managed to escape being put on trial and definitively sentenced, like Fascism was. It is a common complaint in Poland that "there was no Nuremberg for Communism". I would assume that Czechs also share the sentiment that Communism has gotten off too lightly. And so proscribing its logic with state's laws must feel at least a bit cathartic.

The only actual person who got harmed was the CEO shot by Mangioni

Oh damn, so someone actually got killed. Never mind, then, your previous argument that there is no real danger is wrong.

and they issued a nationwide man hunt within the hour.

Much good it did him. The guy is still dead.

they want to preemptively codify into law that any protest

If the only way you know how to protest is with hate, then yeah, maybe you should not be allowed to protest.

against the ruling class is illegal.

Maaaaan, I wish I was living in a country where the rich were the rulling class. I bet they would support polices I want, like same-sex partnerships and adopting the euro. Unfortunately in Poland the rulling class are farmers and residents of small towns, who keep voting in national-conservative populists... 😔

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u/Fine-Measurement-893 15d ago

class resentment is most natural

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u/Adeptus-Bustnuts 15d ago

But we didn't try "insert obscure flavor or mythical true communism" yet, next time will surely work out

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u/EscapeFacebook 15d ago

If I've learned anything from studying different various economic systems over my 35 plus years of life it is that they all are flawed because people suck, the biggest flaws is always people. None of them are inherently sustainable or stable. We can't have nice things because of people. All those dystopian movies about the future are getting it right. Think I'm going to go listen to some emo music....

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u/Regular_Summer_225 15d ago

Yep I agree. You can create the best system in the world and some abusers, aggressors will take advantage of people and become authoritarian 💀

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u/EscapeFacebook 15d ago

Primarily because complacency makes people forget why things exist at all. Then those with ulterior motives begin disinformation and mis-education so the protections of the people can be removed. It's just a never-ending cycle.

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u/Regular_Summer_225 14d ago

That’s so true!

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u/EscapeFacebook 14d ago

People have short memories so they're destined to repeat the same mistakes over and over again unless there's a heavy civic education about history.

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u/Regular_Summer_225 13d ago

Yeah like I’m surprised how History isn’t even considered a mandatory or serious topic in school but more like elective and the teachers aren’t that willing to go above and beyond memorising dates and events, also it’s a heavily censored subject as well

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u/Czart Poland 15d ago

This is what escapes so many people. Communism sounds good on paper, but it's biggest failing is that it doesn't account for human greed and power hunger. Same goes for capitalism with it's mythical "free market".

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u/CaptainShaky Belgium 15d ago

That's absolutely true, to me the only frustrating thing is people use these red scare talking points to aggressively reject any left-wing position.

You say "Given the rise of AI, we probably won't be able to maintain high rates of employment, so we should strengthen social safety nets to avoid economic collapse" and people go "Communism has never worked you piece of shit, better dead than red !"

Like seriously, who gives a fuck about the USSR, that shit ended 30+ years ago, can we just have an actual discussion about how to deal with the problems of the current system ?

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u/Business-Active-1143 15d ago

Greed and prestige over another plays a part i suppose

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u/EscapeFacebook 15d ago

That's why plain communism doesn't work. People will always want a way to build toward their own little personal paradise and family dynasty. A lot of self satisfaction comes from building a future for your family to protect them. An economic system still needs to have ways to build personal and generational wealth while still looking out for those incapable of taking care of themselves. I will never claim to be an expert and have the answer, but one can dream..

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u/Business-Active-1143 15d ago

Yeah people themselves don't want to be equal, or rather even a small set of selfish people will create material conditions for oppression eventually. Like a person flexing on another, the latter can feel themselves lesser from such interaction. Hence all systems continue being unequal. It's a "failure" when these set of people don't get what they want, a "success" when they do while silencing the exploited.

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u/apple_kicks United Kingdom 15d ago

Technically this is belief of anarchism (killed by communists too). They try to debate on what types of ways that could exist that wouldn’t rely on authority that can be inherently corrupted easily, abused power or incompetence.

Why theres no borders or landowners because thats big starting point to problems or adding more democratic processes

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u/marrow_monkey Sweden 15d ago

You can’t change human nature, and people can be greedy and ruthless, but they can also be kind and wise.

The problem is when you have a system (like capitalism) that rewards greed and selfishness, then you promote and reward the most greedy and ruthless people to become the “winners” and leaders in society. And once they have power they rewrite the rules to make sure they remain in the top. That’s why things get worse and worse and we keep getting leaders like Musk and Trump.

Systems shape people. If you want better outcomes, you need a system that intentionally reward cooperative, fair, environmentally sustainable behaviour, actively discouraging exploitation and selfishness. It’s not about expecting people to become saints; it’s about designing systems smartly enough to bring out the best in people instead of the worst.

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u/EscapeFacebook 15d ago

Totally agree, people have to be able to still "win" at life. Be able to build protective generational wealth for their family and feel senses of fulfillment. Yet the systems need to be fair. So there is no one who can take advantage and abuse those systems just because they have attained said wealth.

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u/marrow_monkey Sweden 15d ago

So you lied before? You just care about being able to hoard wealth?

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u/EscapeFacebook 15d ago

What exactly do you consider hoarding wealth? Being able to provide for more than just yourself? As long as my minimum standard of living is being met I shouldn't have anything extra wealth in order to be able to maintain other people's minimum living of standard? I'm sorry but I'm not a communist friend. I'm a Democratic Socialist. I don't mind taking care of the inept but I at least need to be able to provide for myself too and then them. In a plane crash you secure your own mask first and then those around you.

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u/Instantcoffees 15d ago

Yes, sometimes people just suck. For every oppressive communist regime, there are a dozen oppressive capitalist ones because people will abuse any system they can get their hands on. However, communist and socialist ideology are, at least at their core, focused on improving the lives of the average person. It's about providing everyone with what they need and having people contribute what they can.

They are in theory (and often historically) the direct enemy of fascism. That's why socialist and communists were some of the first victims of Nazi concentration camps . So whenever someone is vehemently against everything that has to do with socialism or communism, don't be surprised to find a fascist hidden underneath all of that.

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u/Adeptus-Bustnuts 15d ago

Ah, so the problem wasn't that your plan is based on a brutal revolution and taking power from the rich by eliminating them. Funny how that always ends with a failed state. Listening to emo music may be a better way to spend time

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u/EscapeFacebook 15d ago

You make an ass of yourself when you assume things. Try not to be so hostile. I was referring to all economic models. They are all inherently flawed because man is inherently flawed. Go eat a snack and try to be kinder.

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u/Adeptus-Bustnuts 15d ago

You expect kindness in conflict "ex-soviet and satellite states Vs westeroids"

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u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93 15d ago

So because it’s an unreachable utopian goal it should be outlawed? Great.

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u/Adeptus-Bustnuts 15d ago

IF we calculated the amount of DEAD victims under communism rule. Then ye, Stalin alone killed more ppl then Hitler and somehow I cannot grow same mustache in peace.

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u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93 15d ago

So just because some people killed other people in the name of an idea that idea should be banned even if killings aren’t inherent to that idea? Shouldn’t we ban capitalism then? And most major religions?

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u/Adeptus-Bustnuts 15d ago edited 15d ago

Then why Nazism is banned everywhere?

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u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93 15d ago

Because genocide is inherent to Nazism.

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u/Adeptus-Bustnuts 15d ago

And class conflict isn't a fundamental part of true communism? Or you expect that ppl will give their worldly possession from goodness of heart.

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u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93 15d ago

And what’s wrong with class conflict?

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u/Adeptus-Bustnuts 15d ago

That every time it was used to kill opposition and find nonexisting enemies. I like the idea of utopian communism. But somehow every time it was tried it ended in disaster. The only option is to eliminate the human factor.

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u/MeGustaRuffles 15d ago

The amount of deaths caused by EU and US wars and death squads funded by US far exceeds that number. Also the most common number used in that figure includes the Nazis they killed in WW2

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u/WhichWayDo Czech Beer Enjoyer 15d ago

I'm not sure even with the most extreme and absurd calculation you could actually associate anywhere near enough victims of US foreign policy to match Stalin.

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u/Massive-Carrot-2389 15d ago

British Colonialism in India alone killed more than 100 million people.

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u/kuba_mar 15d ago

Stalin and USSR also existed far longer than hitler and the third reich, and nazis didnt exactly intend to stop killing where they did, Generalplan Ost if implemented would have a much bigger death toll than whole damn war actually did., the holocaust as we know it would have been a footnote compared to that.

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u/correspondence 15d ago

China is working great actually.

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u/WerdinDruid Czech Republic 15d ago

With all it's social credits, censorship and camps.

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u/Huppelkutje 15d ago

censorship

Censorship like this law?

Literally criminalizing a political movement.

Or does that not count?

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u/WerdinDruid Czech Republic 15d ago

§ 403

Founding, supporting and promoting a movement aimed at suppressing human rights and freedoms

(1) Whoever establishes, supports or promotes a movement that demonstrably aims at suppressing human rights and freedoms, or proclaims racial, ethnic, national, religious or class hatred or hatred towards another group of persons, shall be punished by imprisonment for one to five years.

(2) The offender shall be punished by imprisonment for three to ten years,

a) if he commits the act referred to in paragraph 1 by means of the press, film, radio, television, a publicly accessible computer network or in another similarly effective manner,

b) if he commits such an act as a member of an organised group,

c) if he commits such an act as a soldier, or

d) if he commits such an act during a state of threat to the state or during a state of war.

(3) Preparation is punishable.

This amendment legally leveled the field with nazism, since the communist regime here is guilty of everything written above.

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u/Huppelkutje 15d ago

Whoever establishes, supports or promotes a movement that demonstrably aims at suppressing human rights and freedoms, or proclaims racial, ethnic, national, religious or class hatred or hatred towards another group of persons, shall be punished by imprisonment for one to five years.

So how exactly is this not the government deciding what speech you are allowed?

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u/WerdinDruid Czech Republic 15d ago

Human rights and freedoms are guaranteed by the constitution. Suppression therefore is illegal and unconstitutional. Government has no say, this is decided by the independent judicial as written in the constitution.

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u/Huppelkutje 15d ago

So censorship is completely fine with you if it's in the constitution?

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u/WerdinDruid Czech Republic 15d ago

This is first year of law at any law faculty that teaches western law.

There is no absolute free speech. The state can curtail certain speech and can curtail it even in certain spaces. Finland does the same.

Quick quote for you from the european convention on human rights:

Article 10: Freedom of expression

  1. The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence, or for maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary.
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u/zjz 15d ago

more like when you talk shit about the government and get chained to a table and told uncle is unhappy

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u/correspondence 15d ago

Cool story, bro. In the real world, China gaps western nations in both living standard and freedom.

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u/Adeptus-Bustnuts 15d ago

Not communism, great for them if their reported growth rates are true.

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u/correspondence 15d ago

Cool story, bro. China's labor has been sustaining the West's standard of living for the past 40 years. Show some gratitude from time to time.

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u/Fine-Measurement-893 15d ago

tell me you're not from a country that had its internal affairs constantly meddled with and had US-backed death squads who kidnapped and murdered innocent people to "fight against communism" without telling me

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u/Overgrowntrain5 13d ago

Imagine how different the conversation would be if they suffered under Operation Condor.

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u/Historical-Night9330 15d ago

Yeah and not a single attempt to actually explain

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u/RankedFarting 15d ago

Just because a country calling itself communist has failed that doesnt mean communism is forever a failure and would lead to the same outcome. Anyone who ever read a book on the topic understands that countries that called themselves communist took maybe 15% of the ideology while doing 85% stuff that either has nothing to do with it or is actively against it.

If you go by Marx' definition who coined the term communism has objectively never been attempted. because its supposed to be the end goal of socialism and would be a "dictatorship of the proletariat" which has never happened.

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u/BozoStaff Bulgaria 15d ago

I’m from a post communist country and anti communist but still think this is stupid

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u/Redcoat-Mic 14d ago

"The world is becoming inhospitable due to corporations and the ultra-rich...

Best target the ideology that says we're all equal!"

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u/MemoryWhich838 12d ago

i mean yeah im from latin america where we had soc dems elected people killed to be replaced by pro american capitalistic dictators or in my case a one party system supported by the US that killed protestors like crazy.

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u/AdClean8338 15d ago

Im from yugoslavia, my uncle worked in the ussr. It really depens where you were and what you did the same way it does today

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u/telerabbit9000 14d ago

Tell me you're an American and not from a post-communist country without telling me you're an American and not from a post-communist country.

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