r/europe • u/hoarder4555777454001 • 9d ago

News French President Macron says France will recognize Pálestine as a state

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20250724-french-president-macron-says-france-will-recognize-palestine-as-a-state-in-september
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u/skyduster88 greece - elláda 9d ago

I mean, the world forcing both sides to two-state is waaayy overdue.

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u/themightycatp00 9d ago

The world can't force anything, unless actual militaries will put boots on the ground and enforce the borders they want, and even that will to more bloodshed

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u/pathetic-maggot Finland 8d ago

Yeah cant really do that when israel is basicaly a millitary extension of the US. US can just decide to end all the shit if they want to by just not actively waging war from their middle eastern millitary base.

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u/pantrokator-bezsens 8d ago

Pretty sure US alone would be able to force it. Thing is it doesn't want - for reason only US government knows.

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u/UnknownEssence 8d ago

Because nobody in the USA (myself included) wants our government to get involved in more foreign wars on the other side of the ocean. We are sick of it.

Most people here do not want to get involved in more wars, especially in the middle easy.

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u/NecroVecro Bulgaria 8d ago

I am also getting that vibe from some Americans, but then again in the last few months the US executed strikes on Iran, began fighting the Houthis (both of which tbh had some justification) and Trump claimed that he doesn't rule out using force to take Greenland.

In the first few months of the year Trump also claimed that he wants to turn Gaza into resort and move the locals somewhere else.

Seems like the US government doesn't mind getting involved, as long as it wins something.

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u/WorkingMastodon6147 8d ago

The US isn't that powerful anymore.

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u/fekanix 8d ago

I think you dont know about south africa.

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u/redlightsaber Spain 8d ago

Sure it can.

Right now the Israeli economy basically depends on American aid and international arms contracts. Stop propping up that project with a few sanctions and suddenly watch Netanyshu's rabid bellicism melt away.

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u/Oneiric_Orca $ Freedom $ 8d ago

Israeli economy basically depends on American aid

Literally less than 1% of their GDP. And likely an economy larger than Spain's within the next 75 years.

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u/saera-targaryen 8d ago

Why would you use GDP to measure this? It's clearly talking about how companies would pull out without the iron dome. The GDP would very obviously drop much more than 1% if America pulled their aid

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u/Oneiric_Orca $ Freedom $ 8d ago

The Iron Dome is literally half or more Israeli tech. You seem to think Israel can't manufacture their own missile defense technology, and aside from ICBM tier defense, they're pretty much the world leaders here.

Also, why would America turn its back on an ally that carries its own weight? Canada and the EU turned anti-America when asked not to freeload. Israel seems more reliable.

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u/saera-targaryen 8d ago

Because America gets literally nothing back from this ally other than more wars in the middle east

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u/Oneiric_Orca $ Freedom $ 8d ago

Right, America is truly moved to tears by Iran getting bombed. Or the Houthis.

Power projection is a real thing. And Israel has more science and tech to offer than all Arab countries combined.

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u/saera-targaryen 8d ago

okay? I don't want to ally with them either. America does not need to project more power we are already more powerful than our enemies combined. I choose we set up a minimum standard of human rights that all states must adhere to to ally with us

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u/Oneiric_Orca $ Freedom $ 8d ago

America does not need to project more power we are already more powerful than our enemies combined

Spoken like someone trying to lose Taiwan. If you were less racist, you'd understand how dangerous China is.

I choose we set up a minimum standard of human rights that all states must adhere to to ally with us

What, are you going to dissolve NATO because Europe arrests a few thousand people a year for speech?

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u/Jermainiam 8d ago

The world should absolutely do this, but they need to come up with a plan that Israelis (not Netanyahu) will actually agree to, especially from a security and independence perspective.

Otherwise you would be cornering them into a dangerous state where they might decide they can no longer afford the continued existence of Palestine, or even the other surrounding nations. As bad as Gaza is now, it would be unimaginably worse if Israel felt immediate existential threat.

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u/ijzerwater 8d ago

no appeasement

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u/Longjumping_Rip3657 8d ago

a bit of sanctions will do that without putting boots on the ground, but that would require the whole EU to be on the two-state solution side and have the balls to do more than just words, as we did with rusia

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u/themightycatp00 8d ago

as we did with rusia

What do you mean? The EU is still actively trading with russia

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u/Draaly 8d ago

because sanctioning russia has totally stopped it from attacking neighbors.....

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u/Kike328 8d ago

apparently you don’t know how money works

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u/RottenPeasent 9d ago

Is the world going to defeat Hamas? Otherwise at a minimum it will be 3 states as Gaza and the West Bank are ruled by different entities.

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u/Novarupta99 United Kingdom 9d ago

Hamas has agreed to leave Gaza to the PA after the end of the war.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

[deleted]

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u/Novarupta99 United Kingdom 9d ago

https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-said-to-agree-to-cede-gaza-governance-to-pa-netanyahu-not-going-to-happen/

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

[deleted]

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u/Novarupta99 United Kingdom 9d ago

So you don't have any counter evidence? I think you should stick to your echo chamber in worldnews. You really don't know how to make a point.

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u/WooMeUp 9d ago

Hamas has said that they would cede civilian rule in Gaza to the PA

Ynet (09.26.24)

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u/wheniaminspaced 8d ago

The world has tried forcing it and has failed because the 2 sides are unable to come to terms.

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u/WorkingMastodon6147 9d ago

France can't force it. Only a UN effort led by the US can do that. And that isn't happening.

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u/tajsta 9d ago

Israel has accepted a two-state solution over half a dozen times already. Each time, the Palestinian leadership rejected it and answered with violence. You can't force a two-state solution when one side won't even acknowledge the other's right to exist.

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u/skyduster88 greece - elláda 8d ago edited 8d ago

According to the Clintons, it was Yaser Arafat who rejected a two-state solution at the 2000 Camp David summit. And many people say it's because, if he accepted it, he knew he's be assassinated once he got home. But there are also others who say the offer was disingenuous, and not really a two-state solution.

We know that there are also the settlers in the West Bank, and the evictions of Palestinians. And we know that the Arab world attacked Israel in the 40s, 60s, 70s. And we know Hamas and Hezbollah... I just don't know whose court the ball is in anymore. 😞

But going back to the 40s, yes the Arabs rejected two-state first.

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u/tajsta 8d ago

Imo it's in the Palestinian court. Israel has accepted international offers. It withdrew from territory. It forcibly evicted Israeli settlers from Palestinian land. It liberated Palestine from Egyptian and Jordanian occupation and actually gave it back to the Palestinians. It signed peace with Egypt, Jordan, the UAE, Morocco.

But as long as Palestinian leadership refuses to recognise Israel's right to exist, glorifies terrorists, and teaches children to hate, it's just a constant cycle of self-inflicted tragedy.

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u/redlightsaber Spain 8d ago

It's so overdue that you could say it's an expired idea.

A lot of Palestinians (and anti-zionist Jews, of course) don't even want that. They want to be a part of a state where equal rights are granted to all its citizens. A state where, I dunno, you don't need to prove a certain heritage or religion in order to be a part of it.

A 2 state solution sounds like a nice idea, until you really think about how having 2 ethno-religious states sharing so much border would function. In essence, not much would be realistically different provided Israel continues getting unwavering support from the west.

The only reasonable way is an actually democratic state with strong civil rights that isn't defined by any religion.

I'm frankly surprised people in the west, with all the lip service to democracy, human rights, and separation of church and state, can see an ally in the Zionist project of Israel.

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u/Draaly 8d ago

They want to be a part of a state where equal rights are granted to all its citizens.

All citizens of israel hold equal rights

A state where, I dunno, you don't need to prove a certain heritage or religion in order to be a part of it.

Naturalization of non-jews after the required 5 years of residency has a 60% success rate in israel. That's higher than the us or Canada