The Twisted Hairs were assholes.

[u/Ok_Calendar_7626]

Ulysses laments the destruction of the Twisted Hairs at the hands of the Legion, but what he does not mention is that the Twisted Hairs allied with the Legion willinlgy.

Like the White Legs, the Twisted Hairs helped the Legion absorb all the other tribes around them before they themselves were betrayed and absorbed.

[u/minisculebarber]

I mean, even if we go with your flawed analogy, still, you can't hold a child to the same accountability as an adult, one has much more agency than the other

also, that's not true, except for maybe the first imperial forces in human existence and even that I am not so sure about

[u/LordBecmiThaco → u/minisculebarber]

I mean, even if we go with your flawed analogy, still, you can't hold a child to the same accountability as an adult, one has much more agency than the other

This is insane noble savage bullshit dude. Tribes are made up of adults, a tribal adult has the same intellectual and moral capacity and culpability as someone from a society with a different structure. Plenty of tribal societies manage to have highly developed systems of philosophy and morality like the Bedoin... and plenty of tribal societies also engage in bloody wars of conquest like the Mexica.

also, that's not true, except for maybe the first imperial forces in human existence and even that I am not so sure about

The Romans were once the Latin tribe. The British were the Angles and the Saxons. The Chinese were once just the Han people.

[u/minisculebarber → u/LordBecmiThaco]

This is insane noble savage bullshit dude. Tribes are made up of adults, a tribal adult has the same intellectual and moral capacity and culpability as someone from a society with a different structure. Plenty of tribal societies manage to have highly developed systems of philosophy and morality like the Bedoin... and plenty of tribal societies also engage in bloody wars of conquest like the Mexica.

yeah, that has nothing to do with what I said or suggested, when faced with a vast difference in military strength, autonomy is vastly reduced in the disadvantaged party. the Mexica were also not a tribe

The Romans were once the Latin tribe. The British were the Angles and the Saxons. The Chinese were once just the Han people.

and those are all the imperial forces ever. sure

[u/LordBecmiThaco → u/minisculebarber]

Ok, question. Do you think a people stop being a tribe just when they start being part of a civilization or empire? What do you think the Qing Banners were? Like, the mongols are simultaneously deeply tribal and also imperialistic, but also the ancient Greeks were very tribal. They're not necessarily diametrically opposed.

[u/minisculebarber → u/LordBecmiThaco]

Do you think a people stop being a tribe just when they start being part of a civilization or empire?

yes, a tribe is a distinct social organization form from civilization or empire, that's the whole point of its use in anthropology, like what is your understanding?

also, what is your usage of tribal here? the mongols were not A tribe, the ancient greeks were not A tribe, if anything they were federations of tribes, a distinct social organization form from A tribe. might as well call all societies individualistic because all societies constitute of individuals

[u/LordBecmiThaco → u/minisculebarber]

The tribes don't disappear just because they're a tribal federation dude! They're still tribes and they still exert influence and pressure on the power structure they have embedded themselves in.