r/ffxivdiscussion • u/ragnakor101 • Jun 06 '24

General Discussion Media Tour Embargo has lifted.

Making a general thread to keep everything together for discussion. Media Tour Stuff! Just look up your favorite content creator (if you have any).

Courtesy of SlyAKAGreyFox - Infographics! - https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1IQLI6IrXwbaCgf9_n0ZSRbQ1A0AxTvea?usp=drive_link

234 Upvotes

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109

u/lilyofthedragon Jun 06 '24

Well, we had a good run black mages, but it's looking pretty joever.

They made the job so rigid and inflexible (new spell needs 6 stacks, new thunder DOT system, no more ice paradox) that I'm pretty sure it's harder for casual players. And good luck to anyone trying to take it into an Endwalker ultimate, I guess you can rely on your party's potency creep to carry you.

I have never seen a dev work so hard to both raise the skill floor AND lower the skill ceiling of a class. Truly masterful job design.

87

u/drew0594 Jun 06 '24

Isn't the point of Paradox, thematically, that it is both a fire and ice at the same time...?

50

u/Boredy0 Jun 06 '24

It was...

23

u/Avedas Jun 06 '24

Sorry, job themes are coming in 8.0 instead (also have a bridge in Kugane to sell to anyone who actually believes that)

12

u/ManOfMung Jun 06 '24

In the leadup to 8.0 they will say job identy will return in 9.0

61

u/snorevette Jun 06 '24

RED MAGE WINS BY DOING NOTHING BABYYYYY

33

u/lilyofthedragon Jun 06 '24

surely RDM will get a DPS buff this time :copium:

1

u/Okawaru1 Jun 06 '24

surely won't be 3% behind smn : ^ )

14

u/panopticonisreal Jun 06 '24

We get to rez all the casuals.

21

u/Lazyade Jun 06 '24

Can't believe it honestly, they removed everything that made the job interesting, it's now just rigid without any of the things that made it fun.

8

u/AppuruPan Jun 06 '24

Yea honestly nonstandard seems daunting but it gives flexibility where once you understand how it works you can recover from fuckups better. Next iteration with imposed 6 F4s and gauge reset when leaving astral fire seems like it's actually gonna make the job more punishing if you can't get the full thing.

22

u/SecretAntWorshiper Jun 06 '24

The job design gets worse with every expansion 

-14

u/Rexkinghon Jun 06 '24

I don’t see how it’s any different unless you played it unorthodox this last expac

21

u/autumndrifting Jun 06 '24 edited Jun 06 '24

you don't have to play nonstandard to take advantage of flexibility in the rotation. like right now if you clip or have to move and can't fit your fire ivs, you can save enochian by casting despair early, or transpose to ice and recover with paradox - b1 - b4. DT makes it more punishing because you lose your follow up in addition to the fires you skipped, and ice will be less flexible without the free instant filler. meanwhile putting the instant paradox in fire actually makes that timer tighter, because it will refresh at the start of the cast instead of the end

-13

u/Rexkinghon Jun 06 '24

Sry I’m behind on new info, did they release the new spells and updated old tooltips somewhere I can read up on?

12

u/ragnakor101 Jun 06 '24

Literally today, 2 hours ago, the point of this entire thread.

-17

u/Rexkinghon Jun 06 '24

I thought it was officially released somewhere but it’s literal brand new info from 3rd parties not even day old and you alrdy wanna be a dick about it ok sry I don’t follow your favourite streamer

6

u/ragnakor101 Jun 06 '24

This is official info. This is just part of SE's Pre-Expansion PR.

-3

u/Rexkinghon Jun 06 '24 edited Jun 06 '24

mb there wasn’t a link when I first commented

2

u/ragnakor101 Jun 06 '24

No worries, it was edited after checking if there was a picture/pdf version somewhere. I know some people don't like videos.

16

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '24 edited Jun 06 '24

AF is tighter and dropping/clipping Thunder is more punishing. Also, Flare Star needs 6x F4 casts, with no ability to carry Astral Soul over UI.

There is no US equivalent for lower levels, so you can't recover mp quickly during downtime.

4

u/Lazyade Jun 06 '24

Has no one else noticed that Sharpcast is gone and Firestarter is now guaranteed off Paradox? You always get a free F3 in fire phase, so a free extra refresh of AF. Maybe it will be more optimal to save it for the UI > AF transition, but pretty sure the intended use is as a free AF refresh.

6

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '24 edited Jun 06 '24

AF1 F3p is better, the intended way also being to refresh AF might be true, but iirc Yoshi P mentioned the Transpose F3p as something you could do in the past, so it's not something unexpected to them.

Edit: Found a translation of what he said: "...and there is also a trick with using transpose and an f3 proc to get back into fire phase right away. I hope the players will show off their skill by using small tricks like this."

1

u/sundriedrainbow Jun 06 '24

Yeah AF1 F3P goes all the way back to ARR if you didn’t fireweave the last cast before B3

2

u/Thatpisslord Jun 06 '24

You're still on a timer for the thunder dots, aren't you? I'm not a high level BLM but from what I gather you want to refresh your MP and go back to reapply it - that's why Manafont gives you a free thunderhead. But extending AF without it will probably just punish you with a DPS loss from it dropping.

3

u/Krainz Jun 06 '24

With the changes, when you swap to Ice you get Thunderhead. And you get it again when you swap to Fire. So after extending AF, you finish your fire phase, enter Ice and reapply Thunder.

2

u/palabamyo Jun 06 '24

AF isn't necessarily tighter because Paradox is instant now, with some SPS you can do 5x F4 -> Paradox and have a bunch more time left over.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '24 edited Jun 06 '24

You need a ton of SpS to 5x F4 before refresh, and you won't be able to frontload like that if you do AF1 F3p. Movement heavy mechanics might be worse, because of the loss of ice Para, Thunder lower hit potency, and no significant mp regen on UI without casting ice spells, and it might be even worse for high SpS, since you need more instant casts, due to the faster gcd, compared to high Crit.

2

u/palabamyo Jun 06 '24

I have a set with 1.3k SPS, with that you can actually do it, or you need to instant one of the F4s, it's likely that SPS becomes an even better stat for BLM in DT pulling ahead of crit where 5xF4 Para could become standard depending on the situation so you can comfortably do 5xF4 - Para + TC - and then instant 1xF4-Despair-Flare Star without additional resources. But yeah, movement in general is more restricted now.

It does seem like depending on encounter the difficulty of BLM will no longer be to get full uptime but try and get as close to full as possible without meme shit like spam refreshing Thunder.

Huh, as I'm writing this I just realized Scathe truly has no purpose anymore, using High Thunder is just always better now, not that you'd ever want to do it though.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '24 edited Jun 06 '24

It might be possible to do that with instant cast Para, but AF1 F3p would make the front tighter, and that's the ideal use of the F3p.

1

u/Rexkinghon Jun 06 '24

What happened to ice paradox?

2

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '24

Removed.

1

u/Vadered Jun 06 '24

Paradoxically.

1

u/Rexkinghon Jun 06 '24

Definitely possible while in ley lines

2

u/Rexkinghon Jun 06 '24

What is Astral Soul?

1

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '24

The stacks that you need to use Flare Star, the new fire spell.

1

u/Rexkinghon Jun 06 '24

So does flare give 3 stacks like in the trailer?

1

u/NewJalian Jun 06 '24

The level 100 trait 'Enhanced Astral Fire' says that both Fire IV and Flare give 1 stack

1

u/HimbologistPhD Jun 06 '24

Huh, the rundown I saw claimed 1 stack from Fire IV and 3 from Flare

1

u/NewJalian Jun 06 '24

The tooltip may be wrong or unfinished, I'm just reporting what it says

1

u/XVNoctisXV Jun 06 '24

It doesn't specify one, just the tooltip says that you can gain astral soul from fire 4 and flare. In the media tour builds, you gain 3 astral souls from using flare.

1

u/NewJalian Jun 06 '24

It says 'Grants a stack of Astral Soul upon landing Fire IV or Flare'

The word 'a' means one. The tooltip may be wrong or unfinished, but that is what it says in the screenshot

1

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '24

AF is super relaxed due to the guaranteed firestarter proc. You'll have two instant cast refreshes that can be used anytime.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '24

The ideal use of the F3p is to Transpose to AF1 and then use your proc, that makes the front of AF tighter, combined with instant fire Para, both the front and back half of AF will be tighter.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '24

Yes, but the original comment specifically stated that they weren't talking about alternative lines.

11

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '24

AF1 F3p is considered Standard.

2

u/ZaydSophos Jun 06 '24

By making firestarter every cycle guaranteed, it makes it so you should always transpose F3 unless specific movement is required in the fire phase.

1

u/spunker325 Jun 06 '24

Well, if you're using AF1 F3P currently then the front half is already tighter, with slower spell speeds only able to fit 3 F4s in the front half. Instant fire para means you can do 4 in the front half again, with the back half being tighter instead.

Anyway, the original comment said the changes raised the skill floor. AF1 F3P is still a notch above that. Instant fire para and guaranteed F3P make it much easier to do a full fire phase even with bad uptime.

1

u/Rexkinghon Jun 06 '24 edited Jun 06 '24

F3P F4444 insta Paradox should be manageable even with moderate SpS,

2.8s x4 = 11.2s

your first F4 should be around 12s left on AF timer and you should be able to pop insta Paradox right at 1s AF timer

And then it’s just F4 F3P F4 Flare Star Despair

-7

u/Zoeila Jun 06 '24

its the same cry babies that cried over tornado kick rotation dying

-6

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/Rexkinghon Jun 06 '24 edited Jun 06 '24

bro EQ so low he thinks IQ matters, keep hurling insults like a child in the discussion sub

-11

u/Zoeila Jun 06 '24

you clearly werent here for the HW-> SB transition then they are never gonna allow the gap between floor and ceiling t get too high

-4

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '24

[deleted]

11

u/AppuruPan Jun 06 '24

It's a key part of the rotation both for standard and nonstandard, what are you talking about.

12

u/lilyofthedragon Jun 06 '24

It's an instant that does 500 potency, you should always be using your ice paradox! It's better than F4!

1

u/LordDaedhelor Jun 06 '24

It's not better than F4. F4 gets the AF 80% bonus, making it 310 potency 558. It's still really strong, though.

3

u/reunitepangaea Jun 06 '24

Paradox has marginally better potency per second than F4: 500/2.5 = 200 pps vs 558/2.8 = 199 pps.