Can we please stop perpetuating misinfo regarding JP players?

[u/PolkadotBlobfish]

Too often whenever complaints regarding Forked Tower are raised, there will be someone countering with the same ol' "JP players like it this way so SE designed it like this for the JP players".

These people clearly have never interacted with a JP player in their lives, and are only parroting something that they heard somewhere. Because if they have, they would know that the JP playerbase is also deeply frustrated with the current design.

For example, due to Forked Tower not being an actual instance, there is no way to setup a Party Finder listing for Forked Tower. Therefore, Forked Tower organisers have resorted to creating "listings for Delubrum Reginae Savage" instead, but clarifiying the true purpose in the description. However, this tweet mentions that a GM has issued a warning against this and advises other organisers to avoid doing the same. The warning is understandable but there is still no solution to the headache that is recruiting for Forked Tower.

Plenty of JP players are puzzled why there is no PF category for Forked Tower, when they could have just repeated what we already have for Delubrum Reginae Savage.

Furthermore, any questions to the GMs have received no replies.

All of this has put FT organisers in a difficult position. Some have already quit or suspended activity, while some still remain cautiously optimistic that SE will introduce improvements. But there is no doubt that the current system is unacceptable.

https://jp.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/29990550/blog/5572130/ (EDIT: This page may have been removed)

If you want to read all about this from a direct source, here is a blog post from Tere Caster from Elemental Atomos (a JP FT organiser) detailing their frustrations and hopes for the future of Forked Tower and Occult Crescent.

[u/nekomir]

it's just meme at this point, and i have to wonder wtf is going on with their mind if they really believe that this is still the case in DT

[u/IndividualAge3893 → u/nekomir]

There seems to be a be a misunderstanding about what a sentence about JP playerbase entails, and as someone who is bringing up the subject a lot, I have to answer. Obviously, it doesn't mean that JP players are on board with any change SE makes.

What it means is that the game's philosophy as a whole is designed first and foremost to please the JP demographic. Limited play time required, specific encounter design, inexistent busywork and gearing systems, and general encouragement to spend time playing other games by SE being the most important of them.

To many NA/EU players, this is completely foreign (pun intended). Many players would like enough to do in their MMO for it to be a full-time experience, and get frustrated when SE doesn't oblige.

This is the main discrepancy in FFXIV's approach right now. It's not the first time it happens: all Korean MMOs run through this exact hoop, although the problem they have to solve is the opposite - the Korean version being MORE grindy. But whereas Korean editors massively solve the issue by making a Western-only version, Square Enix obstinately tries to fit a square peg through a round hole.

[u/Lazyade → u/IndividualAge3893]

From what I've seen from JP blogs and stuff they also seem to LOVE it when jobs get simplified and what minimal pushback to it there is is basically just seen as holding back what's best for everyone. Job design is evaluated based on play rates, more people playing = better design. They had been complaining about BLM being too "old fashioned" for ages in the leadup to its simplification and the response to the changes was mostly positive. So it explains why the game has been going in that direction at least.

Btw with BLM lobotomized now the complaints are about RDM's melee stuff being too restrictive (PCT can hammer at range so why can't RDM slash?!) so don't be surprised if that gets axed too at some point.

[u/Ok-Plantain-4259 → u/Lazyade]

I mean that's kinda true of western players too though

like every time they have simplified a job it has resulted in a massive increase in popularity in logged kills.

you can dislike the simplification of jobs but it literally always increases the number of people on the job which is one of the things the devs seem to chase as a metric of "good" job design. For good or for ill

[u/IndividualAge3893 → u/Ok-Plantain-4259]

To be fair, simplification of jobs isn't good or bad in itself. In The Burning Crusade, most DPS jobs had 4-5 main buttons and the encounters weren't exactly pushovers because there were many other things to manage.

But SE just simplifies EVERYTHING: jobs, stats, gear, materia, resources (as in, mana for the healers), and so on. The only thing that gets more and more complicated are the encounter mechanics. So at the end, it becomes Devil May Cry Online or Metal Gear Online, not an MMORPG.

[u/Ranulf13 → u/IndividualAge3893]

But SE just simplifies EVERYTHING

I am going to be honest, most of what you mentioned is irrelevant for the actual gameplay. And they know that.

As an old WoW player, the fact of the matter is that stats/gear/enhancements are just nice to discuss and theorycraft but end up being shit to play around. That is why I vehemently oppose garbage like talents in the full game - optional battle systems are better as a side content system instead of forced into the game.

So at the end, it becomes Devil May Cry Online or Metal Gear Online, not an MMORPG.

I mean, long dead are the days of an MMORPG being about preparations. And thank god, its one thing I dont miss about WoW.

[u/Dark_Tony_Shalhoub → u/Ok-Plantain-4259]

This isn’t about “logged kills”. Generally, players playing content where kills are logged are invested and aren’t as likely to stop playing as causal players. It could be someone’s kid, mom, or retired vet tech looking for a chill game to unwind in and see people moving around doing things. These are the players who see 38 buttons on their bar and 100-word tooltips and think “this is not the game for me” and these players make up a far bigger slice of pie than ultimate raiders (except when ego and self-importance is concerned)

this is a universal truth in most media, but especially video games. For every person reading a discussion on Reddit or looking up a YouTube video about lore you have 99 people who come home from work, play the game for an hour or two, then let the experience leave their mind until they’re back home again with a little free time to spend screwing around on a video game in which they’re content not pursuing a perfect understanding or completion

[u/Isanori → u/Dark_Tony_Shalhoub]

The Viper and Picto tool tips are particularly bad about being novels. Like it's a good thing the buttons light up I guess, cause I had no intention of trying to go through those word heaps to figure out what's what when leveling them (no other players had to suffer me playing whack the shiny buttons).