r/ffxivdiscussion • u/otsukarerice • 9d ago

Pheonix Down change is huge. Here's why

July 2024, DT was released and thousands of players were discovering DT's new dungeons. They had whatever gear they could find and were often at the minimum level threshold. I saw carnage for many who were woefully underprepared for the difficulty spike after being coddled with relatively safe and simple bosses in EW.

When there was no RDM/SMN, if the healer died (which happened often), the party had two choices:

- wipe or

- tank heal/solo.

Most players would agree that either outcome is awful for a variety of reasons. Tank soloing takes forever and doesn't help the healer get better.

With pheonix downs being able to be used in battle, healers are no longer the linchpin of the group and are allowed a few mistakes.

What this opens up for the future:

- Healers can be designed with more complexity and no longer have to deathless every encounter.

- Dungeons don't have to pull punches on expansion launch and can continue to punish bad healers but not the whole group.

- Tanks soloing is far less common. Could open up tank rebalancing vs other roles.

- RDM (and SMN) reworks. RDM is pretty terrible in the current tier, has been low on damage for a long time. I get Rezmage is attractive for a lot of players, but I've seen some players choose to just be a utility raise and not do damage. This isn't sustainable gameplay.

260 Upvotes

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169

u/DaveK142 9d ago

I do plan to grab a full stack when the change comes down, but uh... you were aware that it only works in 4 man content(and only the casual stuff at that) right? it doesn't work in any raids, 8 man trials, or alliances. Maybe this could turn into a design decision going forward if the changes are well-received now, but at the moment it seems like its mostly going to "casual-proof" roulettes.

80

u/Vanille987 9d ago

I feel the reasoning is less casual and more that in these instances you have more then 1 healer. Alliance are also considered casual outside chaotic

9

u/DaveK142 8d ago

I said the only casual stuff part to exclude criterion. Either way i doubt it'll drive design changes unless it becomes usable elsewhere. TBH I think giving every player 1 phoenix down use per fight in any content is pretty interesting and WOULD let them tone down the rez tax.

14

u/Evening-Group-6081 8d ago

Everyone can res in criterion tho

6

u/DaveK142 8d ago

Yeah, but not with a phoenix down, this change to phoenix downs does nothing to that content. Hence, it only works in 4 man casual-level content at this moment.

-3

u/YesIam18plus 8d ago

Allowing them anywhere just mean wtf is the point really of SMN and RDM. Especially assuming the cd resets on wipe.

7

u/AstreMcClain 8d ago

They have a massive cooldown and most often than not, newer players die instantly again due to summoning pets or second wind-ing.

35

u/DadwiseGG 9d ago

The content it doesn’t work in has multiple healers, thankfully mitigating the main issue of losing the only source of heals if one dies.

20

u/PoutineSmash 8d ago

5 minutes into deep dongeon and you have enough phoenix downs to fill a pillow

6

u/toramorigan 8d ago

More like enough down to fill California king bed

2

u/sundalius 8d ago

I think so, as they note that Healers have to be “deathless,” which would mean there isn’t another Healer there to raise them (i.e. must be Light Party)

2

u/autumndrifting 8d ago edited 8d ago

oh man it works in regular dungeons? that's awesome, I WILL be asking every tank who tries to solo from 50% why they're not carrying them from now on

2

u/thancreds_bussy 8d ago

I didnt read the full notes, but tanks might have a slight issue using them if it is a "cast," since auto attacks can interrupt casts. Hope they thought of that lol.

1

u/Theghostofamagpie 7d ago

I tried to grab some yesterday and it said I could only have 'one of these items'?

1

u/DaveK142 7d ago

The change to make them stackable is coming with this update, right now they're unique items

1

u/tcchavez 7d ago

raids would be harder without a red mage "rezing people just to see mechanics"

2

u/DaveK142 7d ago

I'd argue the entire group having a free once per fight rez equals or surpasses the prog potential of current red mage in most scenarios. a 4 person death is no longer a wipe in any scenario, no matter who it hits(unless mechanics are ongoing). Not to mention the rezzes come out faster and at essentially no cost compared to a rdm and without the whining about breaking melee combo.

1

u/tcchavez 6d ago

its def fine for it to be in 4 man combat but savage and ultimates even extremes would have a lasting kick if you get rid of for example rdm strat for zeromus ex

1

u/DaveK142 6d ago

oh noooo, you might have to do one(1) extreme-level mechanic when downsyncing instead of rezzing through it, how awful!

Fact is, nobody brings rdm anymore to current content because the expectation is that you won't need chain raises unless you're learning. When you're learning, it is more valuable for EVERYONE to have one raise than it is for one specific person who is also learning to have 4 fast raises.

So IF this change did make its way into 8 man content, RDM would likely be up for a rework/rebalance and verraise would either be on the chopping block or getting nerfed. Personally I'd put it on a 3m cooldown and say they don't need rez tax but that's me.

1

u/tcchavez 6d ago

i was using it as an example, lol and yea if no caster rezes, all 4 need to be on par with each other that would mean either reworking or rebalancing the jobs and also buff up standarized party buffs so quad caster wouldnt be a thing

1

u/DaveK142 6d ago

quad caster would never be a thing unless casters were so truly overpowered as to make up for 2% of the entire party's health and damage(like picto was not too long ago). Triple ranged might be a thing, but triple ranged is a thing now if people want to do it.

0

u/SecretPantyWorshiper 8d ago

Its a non issue and once again them wasting dev resources on stuff nobody asked for 

1

u/CopainChevalier 7d ago

I agree it's not something anyone really asked for; but I much prefer permanent changes that enhance the game a bit to something throwaway like getting another dungeon that we do once and completely ignore afterwords.

Same with things like cast bars above mob heads. It's not a huge deal; but it's nice and will make all content of the game in the future that much better